Infernalism is wrong and unChristian.
>>18406297Correct. However I believe some people can only be moral if they believe they'll be tortured forever when they're dead.>inb4 enjoy hell spammers>inb4 fedoras>inb4 larpagans
>>18406297>Infernalism is wrong and unChristian.Reprobate cope. Read Romans 9.
I've heard Christians say that heaven and hell are the same place. You are in the presence of God, either you experience this as bliss or torture depends on your outlook.>someone who loves GodHeaven>reprobate atheist who hates God Feels like eternal tormentI'm not Christian but this seems more reasonable than harps and clouds and pitchforks and fire.
>>18406566>>reprobate atheist who hates God>Feels like eternal tormentThis torment won't be for eternity, whatever affliction makes someone hate God, God will cure it, eventually everyone will joyously praise God. Even the devil will joyously praise God.
>>18406581So you are a universalist (a heresy)?
>>18406586>universalist (a heresy)I'm a universalist(i.e. what Christianity actually is). Infernalism is the heresy, not univeralism.
>>18406589So no need to even do a death bed repentance. No need to spread the gospel. Jeffrey Epstein is going to paradise despite hating Jesus and doing evil his whole life. What a monstrous concept.
>>18406594>So no need to even do a death bed repentance>Jeffrey Epstein is going to paradise despite hating Jesus and doing evil his whole life. Yes to both. If that seems too mericiful to you, then I'd like to inform you that God isn't just really merciful, he is transcendent mercy itself.
>>18406600Totally undermines the whole cosmic system of justice that makes Christianity appeal to people in the first place. Child rapists who get the death penalty will get to go to paradise. I'm sure it will be paradise for the dead raped children who meet them there.What would you call a judge who let every criminal go scot-free? Merciful? Maybe. But a bad judge. I think you need to read the Bible instead of misinterpreting a few choice quotes from "Church Fathers" that prima facie support your predetermined theology.Or just drop the pretense of Christianity entirely, like the Unitarian Universalist Church. That way you don't have to worry about the pesky Bible verses that mention a final judgement.
>>18406589Ok heretic
>>18406607>Child rapists who get the death penalty will get to go to paradise. I'm sure it will be paradise for the dead raped children who meet them there.It will be paradise for both of those groups, it will be paradise for everyone. >What would you call a judge who let every criminal go scot-free? Judges in this world cannot really make a criminal repent, they can punish the criminal, but punishment is different from repentence. A judge could punish a criminal with a life sentence, but that criminal might still not repent, they might regret that they've been caught, because they're facing punishment because of them, but they might not actually repent the very act of DOING the crimes, causing harm to others, feeling guilty of causing harm to others. Judges in this world can't compel criminals to actually repent.But God? He will make wrongdoers repent, and not by forcing them, he will make wrongdoers WILINGLY repent, feel guilty of harming others, wish that they never harmed others, wish to apologise to those they harmed, and again, God can do all that without harming anyone. That is God's justice. Plato said that the definition of justice is instilling good in people, with that definition in mind, who's justice do you think is superior? The justice of Earthly Judges who are powerless to make a criminal repent, no matter how many life sentences or death penalties they hand out? Or God's justice, which can make even the devil himself repent of their wrongdoings? God's justice is not retributive justice, God's justice is restorative justice.
>>18406566I'd like to see their scriptural justification for this view. Imo there are definite indications of eternal torment or at least extremely lengthy purgatorial punishment, conditional immortality/annihilationism, and universalism in the Bible that probably coexist because the authors disagreed with each other, but that specific view isn't clearly stated anywhere I don't think.My only guess is that it could be an inference from Deuteronomy 4:24, "For the Lord your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God." Reasoning that "God was said to be a fire at one point, and the wicked will be tormented with fire or tossed into a lake of fire, so basically that means they're going to be tormented with or tossed into God." But that reasoning is pretty shady by itself. And why exactly would the presence of God be felt as subjective eternal torment for some and heaven for others? Maybe guilt could be tormenting for a little while, but you'd think the presence of God would be purifying or something rather than permanently torturous.>>18406607It's always a little disturbing to know that for many Christians the eternal torment for unbelievers is the central appeal of the religion.
>>18406647>God's justice is not retributive justice, God's justice is restorative justice.Even any sane notion of retributive justice wouldn't include eternal torment. "An eye for an eye," "Truly I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny." Finite punishment for finite sins is the only thing that makes sense. I'm aware of the cope that offending an infinite being warrants infinite punishment as a result, but it goes against common experience. If a fly bites me, I wouldn't say that it deserves a human-lifetime of torture as its just punishment. That would be deranged.
>>18406297None of this shit makes sense. It's just a child like cope that u need a big other to swoop in and save the day. But ironically christ reveals that that will never happen. Not even angels know the day christ will return. Waiting for Christ is literally built in. He ain't coming back nobody is coming to save you period. There is no hell there is no justice it's time to grow up. And traverse the fantasy
>>18406589Universalists crumble when they are asked that if Yahwej is going to forgive you no matter what, then why he inflicts correction in the form of pain to his worshippers?
>>18407142>why he inflicts correction in the form of pain to his worshippers?Where in the Bible does it say that?
>>18406312I can tell you masturbate and have bitterness in your heart, if you save images like that, and so I can tell you are not Christian. You take pride and glee in the suffering of others, and especially the sinners (who do not know what it is they do).
Personally I subscribe to a view of a temporary hell that is eternal to our understanding, but as you experience it as a metaphysical entity your "eternity" can change and "end" in a way our minds cannot grasp.Restorative justice indeed, but that does not mean that it would be pleasant.
>>18406297Ancient Saints would do literally anything except read the Bible.
>>18407229If punishment is your only obstacle to doing evil, then you aren't good. Good should be done because it is good. Evil shouldn't be committed because it is evil. If God spoke to me personally and said that he won't punish me for murdering or raping people, I still wouldn't murder or rape people, because doing that is evil. If infernalism is supposed to deter evil people from comitting evil, then it has massively failed.
>>18407229Why are you on almost every single thread and making half the threads on this board? Just to learn nothing and take everything you read out of context? That isn't even fun. When I troll I at least try to be educational or witty. You're just some shouting nignog insisting upon everyone's time. Fuck you, man.
>>18407234If evil goes unpunished, it flourishes. >>18407238>everyone on /his/ is the same personMeds now
>>18407256Punishing finite evil with infinite punishment itself produces more evil.
>>18407256I can also believe there are a dozen other people who type just like you, absolutely. Centralized on one board, all with the same prose and opinions. What do you think I am? Six?
>>18407263Dude you are having a psychotic episode, this is the only active thread I have posted in on /his/. See a doctor. >>18407259Rewarding evil with eternal paradise is a multiplication of evil.
>>18407147>Adam and Eve>The desert>Jesus being punished for the entirety of humanity>JobDo you even know your holy book?
>>18407270Letting evil doers into paradise doesn't reward their evil, their actions didn't earn them a place in paradise, the fact that they, like all other Humans, are creations of God did.
>>18407281So Dinosaurs go to paradise? Any creation of your god goes to paradise? Then there is no cosmic justice. You have to discard a LOT of the Bible, and you end up just like the Unitarian Universalists... a social club for people who believe in nothing in particular.
>>18407327>So Dinosaurs go to paradise? Why not? >Then there is no cosmic justiceread my post here>>18406647.>You have to discard a LOT of the BibleSuch as? There are a lot of verses that infernalists think support their position, but actually don't.
>>18407259Every act of evil is an infinite transgression against the infinite good that is God. Eternal punishment is the only just punishment for an eternal sin.
>>18407339How can finite evil be an infinite transgression against an infinite good? next to that infinite good, that finite evil is vanishingly small. Eternal punishment for a finite evil, becomes punishment over nothing.
>>18407361Simple solution: stop believing in the Jewish canon and heaven/hell and embrace reincarnation. There is no god, no eternal punishment. Just karma, which is the fruit of your good or evil deeds. There, solved your problem with "eternal punishment" for finite evil without bastardizing Christianity and abandoning the creeds, ironically by abandoning Christianity wholesale.
>>18407386ragged demon talons typed this post
>>18406297True.You cannot rationally have an infinitely benevolent God who also tortures people for all eternity, or an omnipresent God who is able to create a place where He is not present (existence is really just an illusion within God's consciousness to begin with)>inb4 God is also infinitely just so this requires infinite punishmentGod is infinitely just because He understands a person perfectly, since they are literally a part of Him, and because all beings are a part of God, the perpetrator and victim are both ultimately the same, thus all harm done and received is balanced out
>>18407142Pain is caused by ignorance. It is not that you are punished from above for ignorance, it is that your ignorance creates your own pain. Though sometimes higher beings may help you along in your learning, for your own ultimate freedom.
>>18407153in that case being christian is a synonym for being a meek pussy loser
>>18407142You would forgive your son's errors and misbehaviors, but it doesn't mean you can't teach and discipline him to prevent him from misbeheaving.
>>18407273>>Jesus being punished for the entirety of humanityJesus only died for the elect
>>18407701Wrong. 1 Timothy 2:3-6“our savior God, who intends all human beings to be saved and to come to a full knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and also one mediator of God and human beings: a human being, the Anointed One Jesus, who gave himself as a liberation fee for all …)”
>>18406312
