Was this the moment northern Europe started mogging the Mediterranean?
16-17th century.Western Euros can sail to whatever market they want.Spanish are beginning to fumble their head start in the New World.Probably after the 30 Year War is when the shift North happens away from the mercantile Meds.
>>18415233The Mediterranean was never mogged by anyone because the world's most powerful politicians are France's President and America's Secretary of State
1744 AD when King Frederick II of Prussia introduced the potato.
>>18415241>>18415242Germans lost WW2 retard and France retained it's position as a Mediterranean country that leads the entirety of Europe ever since the Late Antiquity while Britain got isolated and America is currently flooded with Latinos like Marco Rubio who'll definitely be the 48th President after Trump gets impeached by Pam Bondi
>>18415246>France>Med
>>18415230Considering the only med power that did well in the 19th century did a mini genocide on its catholic clergy it probably had something to do with the reformation
>>18415248>>18415265That was late 18th century retard! Napoleon loved the Pope but you're right about France being Mediterranean
>>18415276Napoleon did not undo all the anti church reforms, he even pushed them further and made jews citizens.
1492 was the beginning of the end. The Mediterranean stopped being important after that>>18415242The Italian states were already in decline by the late 1500s
>>18415278>Empire far past its prime that completely gives up on large campaigns of conquest/reconquest>despite this, heavily militarizes, but demonstrates pathetic military skill and accomplishments after last Sassanid war>uses all of that effort to have dozens of disastrous civil wars that repeatedly worsens their standing>dragged ancestral homeland into an apocalyptic dark age that it took an actual millennia to recover from>aside from some token influences, completely eschews ancient Roman language and much of its culture and becomes a Greek ethnostate that is as culturally distinct to Ancient Rome as the Barbarian empires were>lost plethora of techniques and knowledge, could no longer emulate projects of the past and could barely maintain what was left to themByzantines are the biggest meme of the medieval world and a spit in the face to Ancient Rome
>>18415230when meds become islamic
>>18415287>made jews citizensThat was Charlemagne retard
>>18415304>>18415309>when meds become islamic
>>18415321>Still the [insert metric here]And still failed and floundered for most of its history, which is worse than being broke and illiterate. If they had so much wealth and power, why did they keep getting utterly mogged by all of their enemies and repeatedly failed to assert presence outside of their rump state.>muh renaissanceI think the crazy thing is they had all of this knowledge stored up, but never did anything meaningful with it themselves. Even in periods of relative stability and recovery. They even regressed in technical expertise and general knowledge in many respects. They had a very primitive knowledge of ancient Roman republican and imperial history for example, and all of the great works and statues in Constantinople were constantly in a state of decay with the administrations barely able to keep them from utter collapse (I.e. statue of Justinian) very much symbolic of their empire as a whole.What is impressive is that they managed to desperately cling on to life as long as they did. Honestly the one thing they managed that was an actual accomplishment.
>>18415312>>18415321The Byzantines fell to the Muslims during the Late Antiquity which was the same time when Spain defeated the Moors
>>18415366>>18415371Ever since the 3rd century AD all empires that existed were weak when compared to the original Romans and the Sassanids I blame the 3 Abrahamic religions for that
>>18415386>Romans amd sassanids in the same sentenceGo home Ali
>>18415230>CarolingianCapetians>Merovingians>Peppinids
>>18415292Mediterranean armies were marching through the Low Countries even after 1650. Germany doesn't become relevant until after the potato.
>>18415276Paris is closer to London than to Rome. France is not Mediterranean.
>>18415389yes, the notoriously peaceful 15th century europe lol
>>18415579Berlin's closer to Poland and Denmark than to Western Europe and yet Germany isn't considered to be a Slavic or Nordic country
>>18415595Berlin, Warsaw, and Copenhagen are all considered to be in Northern Europe.
>France is mediterraneanHoly cope.
>>18415603>>18415608Berlin's owned by Teutons who're a different faction when compared to Denmark Novgorod and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth also France is connected to Italy due to Charlemagne who ruled both countries many centuries after the end of the Western Roman Empire
>>18415617>France is connected to Italy due to having a germanic kingUhuh.
>>18415615>CharlemagneAachen is closer to Londinium than to Rome.
>>18415230The Mediterranean has been perma-mogged since the 1530 Siege of Rome.It was also getting mogged pretty consistently between 476 and the 13th Century.
>>18415620>>18415621Then why did Charlemagne conquer Rome from the Lombards but not England from the Saxons during the late 8th century AD?
>>18415626Spain was a serious competitor to england until much later. And northern italy was always economically AT LEAST on par with the best of europe.
>>18415702>Why didn't he build a navy and mount a naval invasion into a worthless economic backwater
>>18415713He actually did but it was almost 3 centuries after his death
>>18415438What if after Fashoda incident, Carolingian Alliance form entente between France and Germany?
>>18415438>PeppinidsThat's not even a real fucking word.
>>18415230It was the late 1500’s, hard to pinpoint a date since there were a few things that happened such as the invention or adoption of four field rotation system in Belgium, Dutch exploration, and the framing stock invention. Northern European civilization before that was primitive and anything impressive was due to meds or foreign technology like the printing press.
>>18415366The Sicilian vespers begs to differ
>>18415389if the byzantines couldn't get to the renaissance with half of the mediterranean at their command they were never going to get there
>>18416657>a black woman invented the printing press>you might have evidence proving it was Gutenberg>but why would you bring it up unless you were racist?>a black woman invented the printing presswow.. just... wow
>>18415230It was somewhere in 17th century when plagues, civil wars, depopulation and economic decline set Italy and Spain down the road meanwhile England and Netherlands managed to take over oceans and finances and increase their populations so they could be dominant powers
>>18415579>>18415595Paris is literally closer to Scandinavia than to Rome.
>>18415246More black people speak french than your med phantome picture of a multiethnic france since stone ages.
>>18415389>The Franks didn't have any real adversaries and did nothing but becoming mindslaves of the Pope.Without the Franks, the Carolingian Renaissance and the Catholic church there would have been no Italian Renaissance or anything comparable that followed suit. Not memeing. Frankish cultural consolidation, in the scriptorium especially and the coming together of minds from all over medieval *Western* Europe led to a distinct achievement the Byzantines never matched. Islam surpassed the Franks in two crucial domains, math and medicine. But otherwise so much would have been lost without the Franks. And Iberian chads looted that knowledge and surpassed any conquest Muslims or etc ever achieved. Byzantium was always gay and lame and rightly raped. The only "people" who try to force some popularity of this hellish era are raped slave descendants who think knocking off a Vandal pirate fiefdom and Ostrogothic Italy (which irreversibly destroyed remnants of Roman material culture) is some great defense of civilization. You nons caused the dark ages you've tried to pin on abused foederati for so long, who were in fact better leaders and stewards of Roman culture. And it was Charlemagne who turned the tide on centuries of your impotent reaching, because he actually achieved something meaningful.
>>18415230MARCH OF THE TITANS>kek
