I was researching my wife's family name with her, and in this research we found several Albanian families, and one in particular caught my attention: the "Arianiti" family. Apparently, they were a noble Albanian family that ruled large parts of Albania until the 16th century. From what little I know, Europeans frequently called themselves Aryans (Celtic aryos, etc.), but I know that sometimes this linguistic "autism" isn't as simple as it seems, so I researched this word. What do you guys think?
>>18415715It sounds cool, it's like those words that nobody cares about. There's a word for a river in some of the Baltic countries that seems strangely related to Aryan.
>>18415715Albanian is a bit esoteric and often neglected in Indo-European studies. One rarely comes across historical linguistics discussions that involve Albanian words by chance. What do you do if you're not a specialist in Albanian?Thankfully, a section on Albanian was provided in the very useful Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics. I'm learning Albanian sound changes now. This is the book you need if you ever had technical questions about Indo-European linguistics. You can find it on Library Genesis.(2018). Volume 3 Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics. Berlin, Boston: De Gruyter Mouton. https://doi.org/10.1515/9783110542431
>>18415822>Albanian is a bit esoteric and often neglected in Indo-European studies.Wow really? >You can find it on Library Genesis.Thank you, and if you have more sources in Albanian, that wouldn't be a problem since my wife is obviously fluent. Are you a linguist?
>>18415787What Baltic word are we talking about?
>>18415715>I was researching my wife's family name with her, Who cares?>and in this research we found several Albanian families, and one in particular caught my attention: and?>the "Arianiti" family. It's not related to Aries; there's no source that concludes that. Your screenshot rejects this possibility and says it's possibly related to plowing.>From what little I know, Europeans frequently called themselves Aryans Debatable, but they weren't used to determine race; ethnic Aryans were created in the BMAC.
>>18415880You lost
>>18415880>Who cares?>and?Lmao It seems like someone here is angry Do people here act this way, or are you being an idiot because you're paid to play the fool?>It's not related to AriesThe Greek god of war? I agree with you, ESL>there's no source that concludes that.That's why I created this thread, to see what people with more knowledge than me could say about it. what Wikipedia actually says is debatable, and that's exactly what I'm doing.>plowingWhy would a noble family call themselves "the plowmen"? Name a moment in history when that was synonymous with nobility and prestige—quite the opposite.>Aryans were created in the BMAC.what?
>>18415886No. YOU LOSTYou guys are obsessed with the word Aryan and Indian culture while using these outdated reconstructions and have the nerve to consider yourselves Aryan while worshipping a Semitic desert god, pretty cringe, right?
>>18415892? What? What's wrong with being a Christian and why are you attacking everyone in my thread? If you're not going to discuss this civilly, go to hell, that's where you belong.
>>18415822The Illyrians and Thracians worshipped the Srendy Stog Perkʷūnos.
>>18415875The Proto-Indo-European word would have been *[h2ari̯ó-] (where *h2 is probably [χ]). The question is: is ⟨Arianiti⟩ a direct inheritance of this PIE word, perhaps with some additional morphological elements at the end (i.e., ⟨-niti⟩). The first step is actually to make sure we have a fully native historical Albanian spelling of ⟨Arianiti⟩. I haven't seen this word in an Albanian language text, so I don't know if that spelling is 100% faithful to the original and I don't know all the spelling variations. I've done some preliminary investigation though.The handbook I just mentioned divides the stages of Albanian intoPre-Proto-Albanian > Proto-Albanian (where Latin influence begins) > attested Albanian. In theory we would have:PIE *[h2ari̯ó-] > PPAlb *[arja-]([i̯] = [j]. The handbook uses [j])The issue is what is expected to happen to a hypothetical PPAlb *[arja-]. According to the handbook PPAlb *[-rj-] > PAlb *[-r-]. See pic.PIE *[h2ari̯ó-] is what is known as an "i̯o-stem". The only example of an i̯o-stem being inherited by Albanian that I could find was on wiktionary:*ǵʰóri̯os “pig” > Proto-Albanian *darja “pig” > Albanian ⟨derr⟩ "pig"https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/derrNotice that ⟨derr⟩ exhibits i-mutation (*a > ⟨e⟩ /ɛ/).If ⟨Arianiti⟩ is related to *[h2ari̯ó-] , it is difficult to understand how Albanian would have inherited the word directly from PIE to Proto-Albanian to Albanian. Is it a historically native Albanian surname? I do not know.
>>18415933Haha, I knew there weren't any Aryan words in the Balkans! Haha you guys lost
>>18415880>they weren't used to determine race; ethnic Aryans were created in the BMAC.>>18415892>outdated reconstructionsIt's funny how you have to lie. You're pretty pathetic.
>>18415933>Is it a historically native Albanian surname? I do not know.It's at least as old as the Middle Ages, so it must be useful. Btw said Illyrians because if the word actually means Aryan, I don't think it's as recent as the Middle AgesSome of the primary sources may be useful Wikipedia cited some. I'll see if I can find the PDF online.
>>18415953Remember that "bmac" is a smokescreen for people with a lot of melanin. "bmac" is simply an complex where various civilization flourished. It wasn't a single people, nor were they under the same political unit and they certainly weren't a monoculture. And to make matters worse, there's a retarded Russian linguist who started this mental disease of borrowing words from "bmac," but it turns out we don't know what language these civilizations spoke.
>>18415942Yes we lost
>>18415904They didn't
>>18415933>[χ]Maybe related to Chatti?
Hittite is weird ariya- (I 4) : to study an oracle, ask an oracle. ariyasessar (n., §84): oracle.Kek
>>18415990>Eurolarps>Any other who starts with suffix ar>we wuz h2ér-yo n shieeeeet
>>18415981No
northern italy homeland of illyrian genes?
>>18415715>dear diary Holy shit this is cringe and boring. Post your wife's tits so I can decide if im going to take her from you or not
>>18415933I was looking at this again with a fresh set of eyes today and I realized I made a stupid mistake. It doesn't help with the word ⟨Arianiti⟩ but I'm surprised nobody noticed.The sound change is actually PPAlb *-rj- > PAlb *ʎ. > Alb ⟨j⟩ /j/I didn't see the correct alignment of the page because I skimmed over it too quickly to find the relevant section. It doesn't help that no examples of this sound change are given. Also, wiktionary's alleged example *ǵʰóri̯os “pig” > Proto-Albanian *darja “pig” > Albanian ⟨derr⟩ "pig" only reinforced the mistake. Something is wrong here. It would be better if we had multiple examples to work with just to know the correct outcome for further research.
>>18416744>Something is wrong hereYes. There's no aryan ethonym here.
>>18416783>>18416004>>18415974>>18415970>>18415970The idiots can stop talking now.>>18416744So apparently we haven't reached any consensus here, right? I personally believe that the word being used as a kind of identifier for the Albanian nobility would be useful to consider.
>>18416796Everything is useful to consider, but we need to know what rules to abide by in Albanian. If the word doesn't follow Albanian's rules, then maybe it isn't Albanian in origin. Alternatively, a different preform of the word could be suggested but it's difficult to think of something that isn't ad hoc.Wiktionary's etymology of ⟨derr⟩ is due to Vladimir Orel. We actually have conflicting accounts.Orel cites literature claiming *-rj- > -rr-.The handbook claims *-rj- > *-ʎ- > -j-.If there is some conditioning factor, they could both be true in different environments. Unfortunately the handbook gives no examples.
>>18416859First you say you don't know the word, and then you say you don't follow Albanian laws. Stop lying for just one moment.
>>18416908Your post is incoherent.
>>18416908stop using machine translation, esl.show us your real language
Albanians are subhumans compared to Serbs.
>>18416744See>>18415942
>>18416859>>18416796Another thing in my research refuted in your thread: I concluded that the word isn't Aryan because the word doesn't follow Albanian rules, which is false. There is no evidence of the use of Aryans in these places.
>>18417113We don't need impersonators chiming in. If you're insecure about what has been said so far in this thread, maybe you should go somewhere else since you barely understand English to comprehend the posts in this thread.
>>18417117>>18417113Furthermore, my ESL friend, me denying the existence of this word and its relationship with h2ér-yo doesn't mean anything. Get out
>>18415942>>18417097However, it is the case that Aryan cognates can be found in Armenian loanwords and the name of the Armenians itself. Armenian is most closely related to Balkan languages and is often considered a Balkanic language itself.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/18391462/#18396606This gives us evidence to support the premise that Yamnaya had these words in their vocabulary and not just Corded Ware.
>>18417134>armenian>Albanian
>>18417157>Ha! see, you haven't find the aryan cognate in this one language/region.>>but the word was in the greater Balkanic language family and present on the steppe>I am now mindbroken
bump
I posted some arguments for what ⟨Arianiti⟩ probably isn't, so I should also make an attempt to explain what it is.⟨Arianiti⟩ does not show i-mutation and it does not reflect what one would expect from an old *-ri̯- cluster. My current guess is that it's a late word with Latin morphology.The root is Albanian ⟨ar⟩ "gold, treasure"https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ar#Albanian⟨-ian-⟩ is from Latin ⟨-iānus⟩https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ianus#Latin⟨-iti⟩ is from Latin ⟨-ītī⟩ or ⟨-ītus⟩ although I'm not sure if the Albanian final ⟨-i⟩ is taken directly from the Latin nominative plural/genitive singular or is from something else.https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-iti#LatinNobility having a surname pertaining to gold seems plausible to me.
>Ar: goldDig deeper. The latin is "aurum" for gold. But the root of "aurum" shares similar meaning with aurora. Which means "dawn" or "east". We also use the word "aura" as shining. Similarly, Aryan = noble/brave/glorious/fortunate/royal/highest truth/status/moral/etcThese two different strains probably are related enough as they speak of the high
New "aryan" cognate found
>>18418448>>18418465Btfo
>>18418675>I'm off my meds and fighting schizo battles in my head
>>18418465>>18418649also, the "gold", "field", "noble", "free", "east", "shining", "dawn", are also related to the ancient sky worshiping cult of PIE.
>>18418649
>>18418700Aremorici
>>18418690No, aren't.Its over there's no cognates in Albanian surnames
>>18418700>>18418649The fact that, within the same elite Gaulish family, one sibling could be a knight and another a druid shows that the social order of late La Tène Gaul had little to do with an Indic-like caste system.Druids were an initiatory order, not the Gaulish equivalent of Brahmins.
>>18418690>related to the ancient sky worshiping cult of PIE.Unlikely
>>18418649>Airi very similar to aire Tartessians wuz aryan after all? John T. Koch won again!!!!!
>>18419055Only slavs and italians cannot be called aryans at this point
>>18419087arius exists on latin inscriptions
>>18419242Really?
>>18418649Tartessians?
>>18419087Germanics and celts 2
>>18419293https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17919242/#17922605
