Discuss the harrowing of hell. After his death, it is said that Jesus's soul descended into hell to preach the gospel to the patriarchs.
>>18417882It seemed important to people at the time that jesus have a katabasis. It was a feature of all the other mystery religions.
>>18417882Actually pretty Talmudic.
>>18417955Jesus descending into Hades? That's Hellenistic.
>>18417901Give examples.
Local descent of Jesus to hell is not in the bible
>>18418285I have some examples not from mystery cults but from pagan religions. Ra, Inanna, Odin, Izanagi, Heracles and many other greek heroes. These are the examples that I have in my head. Ra and Odin do the katabasis every day.
>>184182881 Peter 4:17-19
>>18418295Not really pagan but Muhammad basically did the same thing under islamic mythology. He travelled to heaven and hell. And Mario also according to the Mario 64 freemason conspiracy theory (hell as in Lethal Lava Land and Bowser's second level Bowser in the fire sea and heaven as in Tower of the Wing cap, Wing Mario Over the Rainbow and Rainbow Ride and Bowser in the Sky). According to that conspiracy it is also important to masonic rituals. It's a common mythological trope.
>>18418304Well that never actually happened since Muhammad was obviously a false prophet. This is why Muslims are stupid, since you'd have to be stupid to believe in him. lol. Muhammad is currently burning in hell though, I'll give you that. Christ is the truth, no the pedophile warlord zutt slut Mo, who is burning in hell.
>>18418311>Well that never actually happenedNeither did the katabasis of Jesus. Both were just men who invented religions and they had nothing to do with the divine.
>>18418316False. Jesus Christ is Lord. You're going to burn in hell for all eternity.
>>18418298>For it is time for judgment to begin [k]with the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, [l]what will become of the godless man and the sinner? 19 Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God must entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing good.?
>>18418304And there was another religious fogure besides Jesus who is said to have descended to hell to rescue the souls there.
>>18418285Demeter - central figure of the mystery cult at Eluesis. Went on a katabasis (retrieve Persephone).Dionysus - central figure of the mystery cult to his own bad self spread around hellenic world. Went on multiple katabases depending on cult (retrieve Semele, orphic version also dies and is resurrected).Osiris - central figure of egyptian religion, had mysteries practiced at Abydos - went on katabasis (Died and is resurrected).Isis - central figure of a ptolemaic period mystery cult. Went on a katabasis (retrieve Osiris).Orpheus - central figure of the orphic mystery cult. Went on a katabasis (retrieve Euridice).Attis - central figure in cult worship of Cybele. Went on a katabasis (died and was resurrected).Then there's non-mystery cults.Heracles - central figure of panhellenic cult worship. Went on a katabasis (culmination of his labours).Theseus - centre of cult worship in Athens. Went on a regular trip to the underworld and a quasi katabasis in the labrynth. Achilles - had a widespread hero cult that, by the time of Christianity, would have incorporated the myth of his submerging in the river Styx.Trophonius is a maybe. Cult rituals dedicated to him culminated in some sort of intense subterranean rite, like at eleusis, but as far as I'm aware there's no surviving text connecting that to a katabasis. It's entirely possible underground is just a good place to do that stuff and it wasn't intended to be a re-enactment of a journey to hades like at eleusis. Despoine is also a maybe. It is clear that her cult worship in arcadia was clearly associated with demeter's journey to the underworld, but whether she was considered to have made such a trip herself by her cultists is unclear to me. Trips to the underworld: if your cult doesn't have one, you ain't shit.
>>18418327Typo. Meant 3:17-19
>>18418347The meaning is that the preincarnate Son of God preached the gospel through Noah His prophet to the wicked men of that day who are now in prison.
>>18418335How silly of me, I forgot to mention Ishtar/Inanna and Dammuzi, who some schizos will tell you is the actual source for all resurrecting gods and that everyone is secretly actually worshipping Dammuzi.While I'm on the topic of Mesopotamian religion, Gilgamesh doesn't literally go to the underworld (although he does go beyond the boundaries of the real world), but Enkidu actually does go down a really deep hole and sees then underworld, although that episode in not included in the standard epic of Gilgamesh. Nergal also goes to the underworld but then can't leave because the pussy too good. I don't know if that counts, but it's funny.And Melqart.Yeah I don't know enough about Melqart to say anything other than I'm pretty sure his death and return from the underworld important.
>>18418353Except the word St. Peter uses is "spirits" where you might normally expect to see "souls" instead if this was speaking about men. Instead we know that he has in mind the wicked angels, the "sons of God" described in Genesis 6, who according to Enochic literature were put into a prison in Hades (1 Enoch 10, 21).
>>18418363That does not follow, because the souls of men are a type of spirit. The word “spirit” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your interpretation. The spirits in prison cannot be angels but must be the souls of men, since they were “disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah” but the flood destroyed only material creatures, and not angels.
>>18418367>the souls of men are a type of spiritIs there anything that states this explicitly? I know it says in 1 Thessalonians 5:23, "May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." And that seems to distinguish the human soul from the human spirit, though IIRC some Christians take spirit there to only mean "breath" and interpret Paul's phrase as a poetic way of saying "all of you" that shouldn't be read into.
>>18418367>The spirits in prison cannot be angels but must be the souls of men, since they were “disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah”The angels who had children with human women in Genesis 6:4 were disobedient in the time of Noah. And while the flood destroyed material creatures, the angels were imprisoned.
