Christians believe that this is literally Jesus. This in all seriousness, their God, made manifest.Yes. In all ways - it is the literal the very real body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. He has made himself materially edible to fill both your belly and your spirit.No, you cannot test it. No it doesn't matter what the chemical structure is. No it isn't cannibalism.Any questions?
>>18418038Only Catholics
>>18418038Just Catholics and only after the magic happens.
>>18418043>>18418049And Anglicans. And Lutherans.
>>18418053>AnglicansOnly High Church
>>18418053Catholics try to pull off the aristotlelian mental gymnastics of transubstantiation to justify their view of bodily presence. Orthodox at least have the sense to call it a mystery. All the other high churches dont believe in bodily presence, but spiritual presence.
>>18418043>>18418049>The Eastern Catholic, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox Churches, along with the Assyrian Church of the East, agree that in a valid Divine Liturgy bread and wine truly and actually become the body and blood of Christ. >St Theodore the Studite writes in his treatise "On the Holy Icons": "for we confess that the faithful receive the very body and blood of Christ, according to the voice of God himself."
>>18418043>>18418049The vast majority of christians believe this, considering catholics, orthodox and a solid chunk of evangelical believe it, as others have pointed out ITT
>>18418038If you can believe that there was a resurrected zombie walking around 2000 years ago, you can believe anything.
>>18418059>All the other high churches dont believe in bodily presence, but spiritual presence.This is kinda questionable way of saying it.Most churches believe in real presence. It's really a question of how they describe it and if they try to explain it. For example, Lutherans usually believe there is both bread and Jesus present, but don't try to explain it.
>>18418053And Orthodox
>>18418038How do you explain Eucharistic miracles, including that one that had blood on it tested to have XX chromosomes, legitimate or bullshit?
>>18418038So that's why they say he's white, he's a cracker...
>>18418038You're supposed to follow Jesus' lead and start saying yourself "I am the bread of life" all the time
>>18418104Of course, but an Orthodox would never say, ‘Only Catholics believe the Eucharist is really His physical Body and Blood’.
>>18418124I’ve still yet to find one “miracle” that didnt happened in a 3rd world shithole and drove more people to visit and donate to the church.
>>18418067>>18418071The eastern churches do not believe in transubstantiation. They abhor theological clarity, and so they simply say the bread is truly the body of Christ and the wine is truly the blood of Christ, unwilling to specify whether this is meant properly and substantially, or sacramentally and spiritually. Reformed, Romanist and Lutheran views are all permitted within their communion.
>>18418246It's funny how rates of supernatural occurrences where God/Jesus/Mary/Saints appear are so high before people have access to modern technology, cameras, video recording... but as soon as any society acquires such tools, all literal appearances of the divine suddenly cease.Really have to wonder what God meant by that...
>>18418124There are two options for such “miracles”, 1. It is a simple lie and a hoax, and this accounts for the great majority if not all of them 2. Those men were drowning in demonic deception.
Jesus cannot be the bread and wine because he is sitting at the right hand of the Father.
>>18418079They say his actual body is present alongside the bread. In, with, and under.Luther condemned Calvin's "spiritual only" presence heresy for what it is. This is why protestantism split very early.
>>18418038Is it vegan though?
>>18418410That's simply not true.His glorified body has supernatural properties you are not able to comprehend.
>>18418124Anytime you try to these all you can find is something from some website with a name like veritasecclesia.blogspot.com that says "Dr. Lorenzo Valiterrie of the Sacred Heart of Mary Institute affirmed that hemoglobin was found in the bread" with a microscope image of some unidentifiable thing that, reverse image searching, only turns up results from origeniummagisteri.org and Facebook posts
>>18418846that's a lot of words you typed out just to not show a single example
>>18418124>blood on it tested to have XX chromosomeJesus is a tranny?
>>18418057Eh, it's not that cut-and-dried. I'm a low church Anglican and yet I'm an ubiquitist, so I do believe that the consecrated elements are the literal body and blood of Christ, but not that they become such through the consecration.
>>18419084Didn't have a human father so no Y chromosome
>>18418410Nestorianism
>>18419176His human body was created, just like Adam's.He's a male, like Adam. And is sinless, like Adam was before the fall.He restores Adam, mankind, to the state Adam was in before the fall. That is, being in the direct presence of God.It follows that he has Adam's pre-fall Y chromosome. More accurately, the original Y that Adam was created already having before being animated and made a living soul.Not having received it through Adam by way of descent, but through the act of creation by which Adam also received it.Being the new Adam.If you have to argue that Jesus was not entirely a man, but only looked like one, you're not on the right track.Saying Jesus is female on a genetic level, but somehow is still a man, sounds like heresy to me.It would be like saying Jesus isn't entirely human, instead of fully God and fully man.Well, he's mostly a man or appears to be one, except for every cell in his body having only X chromosomes.I've seen some people say Jesus had David's Y. That's also wrong, since David was afflicted by original sin and Jesus was not.>>18419178NTAwhat do you mean>>18419174>so I do believe that the consecrated elements are the literal body and blood of Christ, but not that they become such through the consecrationthis does not make any sense to me and is the first time I've heard of it
>>18419178Nestorians believe the bread and wine are the literal flesh and blood of Christ tho
>>18419391>what do you meanThe (typically Calvinist) notion that, because Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father, his body cannot also be elsewhere, is a denial of the communicatio idiomatum, the union of human and divine attributes in the one person of Christ. The human is embodied, the divine omnipresent. Christ is both. To claim otherwise is to divide His natures, which is Nestorianism.>this does not make any sense to me and is the first time I've heard of itBesides the above, there's also the fact that all of creation was spoken into being by God. Jesus Christ, being the Word of God, is That which has been spoken; all things were made through Him, and so there is nothing which is that is not His body, no matter how much we sinners rebel against this truth and pretend otherwise.
>>18418410you don't even understand the discussion
>>18418124>how do you explain this made up bullshit story
>>18419408>all of creation was spoken into being by God. Jesus Christ, being the Word of God, is That which has been spoken; all things were made through HimYes.>so there is nothing which is that is not His bodyit does not necessarily followyou would have to say, for example, that Satan has some share in the body of ChristI just don't see how that could be true. The lie and truth cannot coexist. What does light have in common with darkness?The body of Christ is his Church, which is in the world but not of it.Yes, all things in heaven and earth are reconciled through his precious blood. This doesn't mean Jesus was referring to anything else other than the physical bread and wine as being his body and blood when he first instituted the last supper.Or that Jesus' body is somehow attached to sin. We've been over this, Jesus' body is the spotless sacrifice which separates the faithful from sin.Sin clearly persists in the world.So the relationship of his body to the world is not the same as the way in which it can be said that all things hold together according to the will of God. That is, different things being synthesized to form one consistent whole of creation.
>>18418038John 6:35-37 "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."John 6:53-56 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."This is how you partake in this spiritual meat and drink. "he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." It's not a physical meal that satisfies your physical flesh, it's a spiritual meal and drink that gives you eternal life as a freely given gift, by simply coming to The Lord Jesus the way that He commands, but believing in Him as your Lord and Saviour.The moment you put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ for your sins forgiven, (2 Cor 5:21) you are eternally saved (John 3:16) and placed into the Body of Christ, which is the church (1 Cor 12:13).By calling upon the Lord (Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.) God will hear your call, ‘cry, prayer’ and He knows your heart, thoughts and motive, and He will respond by saving you, IF, (Rom 10:9+10 – it’s all about the heart! Rom 6:17, Acts 8v:22, Mat 13:15) you really desire to be saved, knowing that you are a sinner on the road to Hell.The Lord Jesus Christ’s Blood is what washes you from all your sins, and He justifies you through it (Rom 5:9), by faith (Rom 5:1). Salvation is not by your works - Read Eph 2:8+9, Titus 3:5, 2 Tim 1:9, Gal 3:21-29, Gal 5:4 etc.www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc
>>18419176So... "he" is a tranny?
>>18418038Questions? Yes. How does my not believing that this is literally Jesus give Christians the right to kill me?
>>18419886>The lie and truth cannot coexist. What does light have in common with darkness?Precisely. Falsity isn't real; it's measure of deviation from truth, from what is real. Darkness isn't the equal-opposite of light, but merely the absence thereof. It isn't a thing, just a lack. Sin is the same: it's a deviation from God's design, a lack of godliness. It isn't real. Which doesn't mean that we aren't really sinful; a room with no light in it really is dark. But darkness isn't a positive thing which the room is full of; darkness is the condition of light's absence. Sin isn't a thing which we sinners are full of, but the measure of our error, the extent of our variance from what God spoke us to be.
>>18420053>Darkness isn't the equal-opposite of light, but merely the absence thereof. >darkness is the condition of light's absenceThe light shines in darkness, but the darkness comprehends it not.I think you should read John 14 again. Jesus clearly distinguishes between himself and the world in this chapter.Sin is a very real affliction, it's why Jesus died for us.To set us free from the bondage of sin, and death.To allegorize, sickness isn't just the lack of health. Things which are dead or aren't physically real can't be sick, because they have no life. Sickness is an infection, that requires cleansing and a subsequent healing process. It manifests in an immune response, through which the body purges foreign particles or organisms which are disrupting it's normal functions.Lies are not merely untrue statements.They have a deliberately deceptive intent behind them.Far from being a simple mistake, a thing said that simply isn't true, they represent a conscious rejection of truth and attempt to mislead others into believing something that isn't true.
>>18420196>The light shines in darkness, but the darkness comprehends it not.A poor translation. The KJV at least cues the reader to grasp for an archaic meaning of 'comprehended,' e.g., via the equally-archaic perfect tense 'shineth.' And indeed, 'circumscribe,' 'contain,' 'take in,' or 'overcome' would all fit within the semantic field of 'comprehend,' in its archaic sense. But by modernizing the rest of the verse, your translation implies that 'comprehends' should also be taken to have it's modern, narrower meaning, which is misleading. Not to mention that κατέλαβαν is in the aorist tense, so parsing it as present tense is just plain incorrect.>I think you should read John 14 again. Jesus clearly distinguishes between himself and the world in this chapter.Thank you for the recommendation. I think you may be failing to distinguish between the literal sense of 'world' and the Koine Greek idiomatic sense of κόσμος as referring to the inhabitants of the world. Of the six occurrences of 'world' in John 14, only one, in verse 30, isn't obviously such an idiomatic usage.>Sickness is an infection, that requires cleansing and a subsequent healing process.If we were talking about Jesus' ministry of casting out demons, this might be a fruitful point of comparison, but we're talking about sin. Both the Greek αμαρτία and the Hebrew חטא, the Scriptural terms for sin, have the literal meaning of 'missing the mark,' of error.
>>18420602Well that's the word used in the Latin anyways.It means to grasp, include.>kosmoswhether you're going to identify kosmos with the world or people of the world, it doesn't matter, because you still have to identify them all as being the body of Christ regardless of their belonging to the church how could Christ not know himself, or his Fatheris there some part of him which is ignorant of his being, noevery part of his body is compliant with his will, even if unconsciously in those cases of people who never knew his name but cooperate with logos and the law written in their heart>error>missing a targeta lie is sinfuland it is deliberately aimed at people, and most effective when it actually strikes the target there are sins of omission or dereliction, failing to do good, visible ignorance, even something as simple as making a mistake when you could have prevented and then there are sins of blasphemy or deceit, in which the actual will to do evil knowingly is involvedconsider the example of a distracted driver versus someone involved in vehicular homicideone is deficiency in upholding ones due diligence and irresponsibility, the other is a premeditated act of malicious murder
*vincible*
>>18418038Getting upset about the Eucharistic mysteries is one of the most hilarious self-owns a non Christian can do.
