All of the attempted answers that christians have to the problem of evil are stupid and absurd, yet they are doubly stupid and absurd when you consider the doctrine of heaven.They claim that god has made a place of eternal, perfect hapiness, a place without evil (though they cannot provide any evidence for this). But does this not make all their excuses for the evil of the world yet more foolish? They tell us that god cannot destroy evil because of free will or whatever, and then they say that he has in fact destroyed evil for those in heaven. If he can make such a perfect world, why has he not done so already?
Freemason kike.
>>18423673I'm not even a Christian but the answer obviously lies in Original Sin. Why do you think that aspect of the doctrine is hammered in ad nauseam? Without it, God looks like an evil figure punching down at his own creation instead of a righteous judge condemning a wayward creation.
>>18423678Christ took away the original sin so why is there still evil you moron
>>18423690>Christ took away original sinThat is stated exactly nowhere in the Bible
>>18423678What is "original sin"? A man and woman, whose faults and imperfections could not have come from anywhere other than their creator, were decieved by a talking snake, who likewise could only have just been created as a deciever by god, into eating an apple, which somehow compelled god to torture and emiserate the entire world?
>>18423676Your "god" is jewish
>>18423692>Christ died for our sins and said the work is finished>erm not the original one lol and btw it’s up to you to finish the work or u will burn in hell :)>oh also we made the world extra evil just for good measure
>>18423673Hume's moral psychology was the only salvageable part of his philosophy
>>18423673I actively lost brain cells reading this shit. In Heaven, you've made your choice and so your will is perfected in Heaven. You'd know that if you knew any theology at all.
>>18423699Jesus and Paul never once claimed that Original Sin was forfeit because of the crucifixion. That's pure headcanon
>>18423880>adam is in hellCool story
>>18423886Why wouldn't he be if you take this verse in the New Testament seriously?John 14:6>No one comes to the Father except through meAre you saying Jesus was a liar?
>>18423890He was until Jesus finished the work
>>18423909>Jesus was a liarSo why believe him when he said he was God?
>>18423915Erm Jesus saved Adam excuse you, he’s in heaven through jesus
>>18423673>All of the attempted answers that christians have to the problem of evil are stupid and absurdThere's actually a relatively straightforward answer. Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YKUhD7--LKw>They claim that god has made a place of eternal, perfect hapiness, a place without evilThis isn't actually in the Bible and indeed the Bible directly contradicts it. In Job, Satan goes up to heaven, so clearly the statement that heaven never contains evil is false.The Bible never says the pop culture notion of us "going to heaven". It says that death is just unconscious oblivion, explicitly so in Ecclesiastes 9. What it does that in 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Corinthians 15 is that, at the end, there will be the resurrection. And the resurrection will be of all good things, yet none of the evil - including the good you add now, which makes the resurrected world even better. So it would be more accurate to say "the resurrected world will contain all the good there has been and none of the evil there has been". Take a look at https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5kAte0NX8Nc
>>18423928>heaven is evilYou’re a jew
>>18423932I said it can contain evil. This is a basic Biblical fact in Job Satan goes to heaven and even commits evil there.
>>18423673> consider the doctrine of heaven.They claim that god has made a place of eternal, perfect hapiness, a place without evilCitation needed but ok. It‘s a fundamentally different place. Hardly an argument why the material universe should behave in the same way. It cannot. The pains of the flesh dont exist there because it’s pure soul. The fleshly plain is just there because you inhabit this material body that needs to survive. But alright, so: How do you experience this evil? What is the evil you so unfairly and unjustly, for absolutely no reason, surely not for your personal shortcomings or sins, experience so intensely in order to blame God himself? For treating you unjustly? Make your case. If your fate is so miserable while you are practically without sin at the same time and did all in the best intentions, then yes - you should have grounds flr lamentation and questions. If that’s true read the book of Job, he had a similar fate. A man without sin stripped of all, and plagued by disease. Does this resonate with you?Or do you talk about the evil that gets shown to you? The news, the history books, the smalltalk etc? Did you let the screens tell you the world is imperfect and evil? Did you let others tell you how the world work? Or did you experience it first hand? Be honest. Look away and look around. Where is the evil? If you see it in real life, point it out, tell others, do something. It can and will be overcome easily. But if you just believed what you were told, you fell for satans classic trick. And in this case it worked. > but it must be real, i seen it on tv and the internet and also everybody knows…Consider for a moment this is not how reality works and there is a reason you are made to think this way. What is the goal then, what does this make you do and believe? Who gains?
>>18423919Nowhere in the Bible
The book of Job answers the main question of man: If God is good, why do innocent people suffer?Job never stole, lied, compromised, cursed etc. He was more righteous than you, but he had a fault known only to God: Job was trusting his works to be justified. Job is brought to ashes to make him realize that no matter how upright he is, he cannot save himself. Despite all his efforts, Job was still a sinner, falling short of the perfection of God. Righteous people suffer to make them realize they're not safe, that they can't assume they're right with God because of their works.Job says he doesn't justify himself (Job 9:20), but when he actually goes through suffering, the pride of Job is revealed:Job 27:6“My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.”Job's problem was the same problem every unsaved person has, they are justified in their own mind, thinking that God will spare them because that's what they would do if they were God. Job 32:1-2“So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. (...) because he justified himself rather than God.”God allowed Job to suffer to teach him that his righteousness isn't good enough. If Job didn't suffer, he would not have known something is wrong between him and God. In Job 42, after God had finished answering, Job realizes God is doing right by letting him suffer, and repents:Job 42:6“Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”After Job forsook trusting his own righteousness by realizing how perfect God is, God gives him twice as much as before:Job 42:10“And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.”As long as you think you're good in your pride, you won't accept you're evil. This is the reason why humans suffer, to show they're not right with God, and strip away their pride, motivating them to rely on God, nothing else.
Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. He died on the cross as a sinless sacrifice for all the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sins. He was buried, then rose again from the dead. One day you will stand before Him, and He will judge you. You can either repent to God by receiving Him and be saved, or reject Him and go to hell for your sins.Rom. 3:23-25: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”1 John 5:7: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”Salvation is by grace through faith (Eph. 2:8-9, given by God, Romans 10:8 & 17) only in the one, final, effectual sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ (Heb. 10:8-12) dying in your place (1 Cor. 15:3-4) as a substitutionary offering for sin (Rom. 5:1-10). His blood atonement made for you is finished, so if you have received the Lord Jesus by faith (John 1:12) in your heart, you're forgiven of all your sins and are saved, once for all; finally and forever! (Rom. 8:38-39, Romans 4:5)The gift of salvation can't be earned, it's a gift: Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Rom. 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Confess The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in prayer, that you trust in Him, not your own works. He atoned for your sins on the cross.www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntcProof that the Bible is the word of God:https://truthischrist.com/seven/fcbaptist.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Bible-proof.pdf
>>18423678>I'm not even a Christian but the answer obviously lies in Original Sin.No, the question lies in Original Sin, why would a loving omnipotent god create such a malicious trap to justify killing babies instead of protecting his own children?
Evil isn't real
>>18423880Galatians 3>18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.>19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.>20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.>21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.>22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.>23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.>24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.>25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.>26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.>27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.>28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.>29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.Yes they did, they clearly said that original sin and the laws given to abraham and all the blood pacts and rights that followed were forfeit by the coming of christ.
>>18423944Material pain is basically nothing compared to emotional pain, though, so why did god make it so you are sad when other people go to heaven or whatever or that you can feel any kind of pain besides just physical pain and isn't the fact that adam and eve even felt the need to eat the fruit indicative of some kind of inherent emotional distress that predated the actual stealing of the fruit?
Christianity is one form of wool over the eyes out of many. Indoctrinate a population to believe what is most convenient for a power structure and it may yet prove effective over the course of many years, but rebellion is always a possibility. Whatever a doctrine such as Christianity says is believed to be the infallible word of God, so no argument is allowed against it. The world can be a horrible place of inhuman evil, but God willed it, so it's taken by Christians as acceptable.
>>18424069>he cannot save himself. Despite all his efforts, Job was still a sinner, falling short of the perfection of God.Why didn't the bible actually articulate any of this? Why did it just make it seem like god did it because of an adversarial dare?>Righteous people suffer to make them realize they're not safeAnd why aren't they safe if there is an all powerful omnibenevolent being who loves them why is god putting them in unnecessary danger just to hold it over them?>they can't assume they're right with God because of their works.Why would there be so many contingencies on an omnibenevolent being's love, isn't it by definition only capable of rightly loving anything and everything?>and will not let it goSo he SHOULD have let god and god's law go at the first sign of adversity and quit trying to do what he was taught was right?> something is wrong between him and GodSo no matter how much you obey this all loving god, there will always be something wrong for him to justify harming you?>After Job forsook trusting his own righteousness by realizingHow exactly can ones own realization make them not trust themselves, if he is trusting his own realization, he is trusting himself, by definition.>As long as you think you're good in your pride, you won't accept you're evil. Then by your logic, doesn't that make Job twice as evil as before god intervened since he is now justified in his pride with twice the riches, so that god fixed his evil by making a deal with the devil to make job twice as evil?
>>18424071>sinlessNo, Jesus proved himself not to be sinless by being unable to cast the stone that he himself asserted only a sinless person could cast.
>>18424180>Why did it just make it seem like god did it because of an adversarial dare?Because thats how it looks like to us, who don't know why God does thing the way He does, that's why the book of Job explains that everything God does has a good purpose behind it.>And why aren't they safe if there is an all powerful omnibenevolent being who loves themBecause "Our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). Just because God can show love doesn't mean He can't show wrath as well"If God will allow a power to control things when this power is evil and malicious, then why would the passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 cause any wonderment at all? The passage merely states that God gives what a man demands and asks for. If he wants a lie, he gets it.If he will not take light (John 11:10), then light becomes lightning (Matt. 24:27). If he will not accept the truth of God, then he is exposed to a power that God has permitted to exist for the purpose of putting across a lie (John 8:44)" -Peter Ruckman>isn't it by definition only capable of rightly loving anything and everything?Nothing could be plainer. The executioner is appointed (Rom. 13:1-5); he is "the minister of God," a revenger to execute wrath, etc.The important thing to remember about God is His holiness. The love of God is rooted in God's holiness. All of God's love, in this age, is vested in the righteous life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Apart from Christ, God loves no man (John 3:16; Rom. 5:8); apart from Christ, the sinner abides in God's wrath (John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”).>So he SHOULD have let god and god's law go at the first sign of adversity and quit trying to do what he was taught was right?No, but he should stop depending on himself to be saved. Job is not God, he cannot save himself. His own righteousness is not enough.
>>18424180>So no matter how much you obey this all loving god, there will always be something wrong for him to justify harming you?No, if God allows something bad to happen, it's for a just and righteous purpose. God made Job more happy than he ever was before after God had corrected Job.>How exactly can ones own realization make them not trust themselves, if he is trusting his own realization, he is trusting himself, by definition.It's God who taught Job the lesson, it's not Job who realized it himself. If God had not allowed Job to suffer, Job would have thought that everything is okay between him and God, and that he can just keep pridefully trusting the fact the because he is righteous in his own eyes, he can go to heaven and be saved by himself. God teaches Job that no matter how perfect he is, he still falls short of the glory of God, and cannot depend on himself to be saved.>Then by your logic, doesn't that make Job twice as evil as before god intervened since he is now justified in his pride with twice the riches, so that god fixed his evil by making a deal with the devil to make job twice as evil?Job is not justified in his pride, that is what he repented of, that's the whole point of the book. At the end of the story Job admits that God is right, he was wrong. Job 42:3“Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.”Job 42:6“Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”Job was not justifying himself anymore by trusting in his own righteousness. If Job had not suffered, he would have kept trusting his own righteousness and nothing would have changed.
>>18424182Where does it say He is unable to cast the stone?
>>18424189>Because thats how it looks like to us, who don't know why God does thing the wayWhy would he bother to write the book to explain why he does what he does if he isn't going to actually clarify anything and just use it to make people see whatever they want to see so they will fight each other instead of an actual message of love that brings people together?>Because "Our God is a consuming fire"... Just because God can show love doesn't mean He can't show wrath as wellThen you are off topic posting and don't even believe in an omnibenevolent god that the problem of evil is addressing, you believe in an evil fire demon who only does good to others if it serves itself.> If he wants a lie, he gets it.And that is what you want, a lie, which is why you actively simp for a lying fire demon instead of an all loving god?>If he will not take light (John 11:10), then light becomes lightning (Matt. 24:27). If he will not accept the truth of God, then he is exposed to a power that God has permitted to exist for the purpose of putting across a lieThat is the exact opposite of what you just said about god being nice enough to make any lie true for anyone who wants it.>The important thing to remember about God is His holiness. Again off topic since the thread is about an all loving god, not a narcissist god who can treat any arbitrary evil holy on demand.>God loves no manWhich again means you don't believe in an all loving god, you believe in an angry fire demon who can justify any evil it desires.>No, but he should stop depending on himself to be savedBut you just said job's own realization is the primary thing that lead god to rewarding him, so how could he have been saved without having his own realization that aligned with god's desires.
>>18424197It explicitly said he never cast the stone that he specifically said only a sinless person could cast.
>>18424196>it's for a just and righteous purpose.To make him twice as evil by making him have a self realization and acquiring twice as much earth evils?>it's not Job who realized it himself. Then why did he change and get rewarded if he never actually realized anything, your whole thing about being rewarded was completely contingent on job's realization and god's distaste for self-realization instead of divine intervention?>If God had not allowed Job to suffer, Job would have thought that everything is okay between him and God, So your god is not omnipotent either, the only way he can ever accomplish anything is by making people suffer?>Job is not justified in his prideExcept when his pride aligns with god's pride and his realizations are copies of god's impositions?>If Job had not suffered, he would have kept trusting his own righteousnessIt wasn't his own though, he was doing exactly what he was taught as god passed down through his ancestors and it pissed off god's adversary how good he was at following his ancestor's instructions, god didn't lose faith in job, god believed he would succeed the entire time.
>>18424180The proper interpretation of the book of Job is that god is a petty tyrant that toys with his creations in the same way a child does with ants and a magnifying glass. Christians try to cope by claiming some nonsense about how faith saves you instead of works and that a man who does good works is damned because somehow his works cause him to get a sense of pride, and that's bad. Only submission to a "loving" god saves you. It's complete slave morality made to appeal to the lowliest of dregs in society. Truly a religion for slaves and women.
>>18424199>an actual message of love that brings people together?How is that good thing? Bringing people together to do something evil with a message of love?>Then you are off topic posting and don't even believe in an omnibenevolent god that the problem of evil is addressingBecause since you are addressing Christians. If you love cleanness, but you also love dirt making something clean dirty, you don't love cleanness. Your view of God is perverted.Every good thing that happens to us, and every second that humans get to live in their sinful state, continually rejecting what God wants without immediately being executed for it, is undeserved mercy. Humans are suffering in this world to wake them up and show them their need of Jesus Christ, because God doesn't want them in Hell, which is worse than whatever happens on earth. Despite horrible conditions on earth, humans assume that God is pleased with them, but the truth is that if you refuse to come to the knowledge of the truth by rejecting Christ you will remain to be condemned and will suffer, and eventually it will be too late to accept God's free offer of salvation. Mankind is "sold under sin" (Rom. 7:14), which is why God has delegated authority to Satan, who is in charge of this present world system. The Lord Jesus Christ came to reconcile man and God together again, He did it by bearing the judgment of the sinner in Himself on the cross. He was judged and punished for all our sins. What the sinner is asked to do is to trust in Jesus Christ, The Lord God Almighty. It doesn't matter how much faith you have, but you can't put that faith in yourself, because you can't save yourself. Trust that the work He did is sufficient to pay for you sins, and call upon Him as your Saviour, knowing that you are a sinner, and that without the blood atonement He made you would go to hell. You might not know what to say, but if you understand that you need Jesus Christ, call upon Him and let Him do the rest.
>>18424204>Bringing people together to do something evil with a message of love?I know you worship evil so much you can't even consider its absence, but this thread is suppose to be about an omnibenevolent god, not your angry little fire demon who can only further its agenda through torture and the general imposition of suffering.>continually rejecting what God wants If you had a framework for a god that actually stood by his own children instead of abandoning them in a garden filled with poison, it wouldn't be be so easy for his children to reject.>Humans are suffering in this worldBecause according to you suffering is the only way your fire demon can spread its message.>Despite horrible conditions on earthIf only there was some omnipotent all loving god who could address horrible conditions instead of just horrible conditions spawning retards who advocate for fire demons.>The Lord Jesus Christ came to reconcile man and God together againIt will totally happen in two more millennia, trust the plan.>He was judged and punished for all our sins. Then why do sins still exist if he came and redeemed everyone of sin?>you can't save yourself.Unless god likes you enough to make you suffer enough to have realizations that align with his desires?> knowing that you are a sinnerSo if you know you are just a sinner, then how can you ever know you are telling the truth and not just committing the sin of lying because you are enamored with a fire demon?
>>18423673>mistaking earth for heaven
>>18423673AI look up the verses I'm reading them right now. AI Bible check rach of those points. That way of interaction is actually very boomer in nature. You'll be waiting your whole life for a spoonfeed that will never come.
>>18424222AI doesn't can't coherently answer OP, it will just reiterate the problem, tell OP how great they are for considering it, and ask if it can help further.
>>18423673Revelation 1:7 KJVBehold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
