People always say "Hitler started the war", but what choice did he have?International bankers were already starving out Germany, and Soviet union was arming up and preparing to invadeIf he had waited, German industry would just be outmatched and all of Europe would be occupied
>>18427503germshits aren't white and always get raped by the power of Slavic Bolshevism
Bolshevism was always going to prevail. It is unstoppable
>>18427503>People always say "Hitler started the war", but what choice did he have?Don't set the economy on an inevitable crash course by overspending on the military and don't invade all your neighbors? Germany was still one of the most populated countries in Europe with some of the best human capital in the world at the time, just let your industrious Germans multiply until there are 250,000,000 of you and win by being the economic and cultural juggernaut of Europe without firing a single bullet
>>18427520>just let your industrious Germans multiply add it to the list
>>18427520>just let your industrious Germans multiply until there are 250,000,000 of you That's what Hitler wanted retard, it was the point of 'lebensraum.' It's why he started the war - to ethnically cleanse land for Germans to settle so he could grow a population to rival that of the United States
>>18427523>It's why he started the warWhich he then lost, with disastrous consequences for Germany
>>18427503Oh no, you are using basic logic and geopolitical literacy! The armchair midwits won't take this too kindly.
>>18427524So your point is stupid then
>>18427528Considerably less stupid than running one of the most powerful European states down into a ditch because dear leader can't help but chimp out against his neighbors.
>>18427520Nigger how would he get the land to settle 250,000,000 people in other than through genocidal warfare?
>>18427529I don't think you're very intelligent. I'm not defending Hitler.I'm pointing out your 'rebuttal' of Hitler is just advocating what Hitler wanted - a German superstate."Hitler should have been like Hitler" isn't a good argument
>>18427530I pulled the quarter billion number out of my ass, but Germany was in no way nearing its physical population capacity by the time it started annexing its neighbors. Their chimpout is not defensible.>>18427531The question was how he could have won, since we have the benefit of hindsight we know that he lost by going the WW2 route, which is why my advice is to not invade all the neighbors or overspend on the military, instead just keeping Germany on its growth trajectory and trying to maintain good relations with its neighbors. Yes, that would require Hitler to not be Hitler and nazism to not be nazism in the sense that it can't pursue aggressive wars of territorial expansion, but that turned out to be a losing move anyway.
>>18427535Germany was already super overpopulated. It's one of the main reasons they lost WW1, because they lacked the food to feed their population.Your argument is he should have greatly exacerbated Germany's overpopulation? Why would that be to his benefit?
>>18427503Couldn't Germany have remained demilitarized after WW1?Using their chemical industry and automotive manufacturing to become rich
>>18427536>Germany was already super overpopulated. It's one of the main reasons they lost WW1, because they lacked the food to feed their population.The main reason they lost WW1 is because they had to fight France, the UK, the US and Russia at the same time. Not having food security is a big problem but the bigger problem is that they were outmanned, outgunned and outmanufactured from day 1.>Your argument is he should have greatly exacerbated Germany's overpopulation? Why would that be to his benefit?More workers, more scientists, more artists, more consumers, more everything. You know, growing the country peacefully?>>18427539Nah nigga they had to invade all their neighbors, they just had to
>>18427541>More workers, more scientists, more artists, more consumers, more everything. Not more farmers though. There's only a certain amount of land a nation has for farming. Growing a population beyond a certain point is suicide, especially for a pariah state like the Third Reich
>>18427524Taking the gamble was worth it from their perspective. Total war was the only option for Germany to finally become the European hegemon.
>>18427541This is an Amerimutt understanding of the world. Just because the US has infinite farmland doesn't mean other countries in the world do.Historically imperialist nations (England, Germany, Japan, etc.) generally have a great disbalance between population and land size, which is what causes them to seek imperial spheres of interest.
>>18427541>More workers, more scientists, more artists, more consumers, more everything. You know, growing the country peacefully?That's kinda irrelevant when you've got a modernising Russia for a direct neighbour. The fact that the Allies were more than willing to cooperative with the commies didn't help either.
>>18427539What a great idea anon, it's not like they would've eventually been overrun by the Soviets who were already chimping out in the East, just waiting for their opportunity to spread the revolution west.
>>18427545>>18427548That's the beauty of not invading all your neighbors and instead focusing on building positive relations, they're willing to trade with you and sell you food. If Germany was on the brink of starvation with no one being willing to sell them food despite having normal trade relations then I would be very sympathetic to expansionist wars, but this was just not the case.>>18427547They took the gamble and they lost. Maybe they should have considered playing the long game, in 2026 Germany is still and has been the largest European economy and this is after losing two world wars and having a significant portion of the country suffer under communist occupation. Their economy could have been even larger had they not started WW2.>>18427549Why were the allies willing to cooperate with the USSR? Was there a more pressing enemy that they needed to unite against?
>>18427559>If Germany was on the brink of starvation with no one being willing to sell them food despite having normal trade relations then I would be very sympathetic to expansionist wars, but this was just not the case.They had already starved during WW1 and were a semi-pariah state during the 1920s with constant food shortages.Why do you think Hitler got elected? You seem to have a very weak understanding of the time period
>>18427559>Why were the allies willing to cooperate with the USSR?For the most part, the British were very unwilling to cooperate with the USSR and prior to 1939 almost always favored the Germans over the Soviets.It was the French and Czechs who had an alliance with the Soviets in order to contain Germany and maintain French hegemony in Western Europe
>>18427503>International bankers were already starving out GermanyWhat do you mean by this exactly.
>>18427523There are more Germans alive in Hermany now than tjere were at the start of WWII, with less space.
>>18427571And Germany today is a US ally completely reliant on food importsHitler wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the US becoming the hegemonic power of the world and that's what informed a lot of his genocidal worldview
>>18427562Being blockaded during a world war and the tumultuous time that followed does not mean they will be blockaded forever. Today Germany trades with both France and the UK and the also import a lot of food, ergo it is possible for them to exist peacefully with their neighbors and if fertility rates had been higher they could've grown their population while still relying on imports. >>18427566>For the most part, the British were very unwilling to cooperate with the USSR and prior to 1939 almost always favored the Germans over the Soviets.So it's entirely possible that they could have formed an anti-Soviet coalition had Germany not started WW2?
>>18427577Yes, it's entirely possible the British could have allied with Germany instead of France, but that would require pro-German and anti-French public sentiment arising in England
>>18427577>Today Germany trades with both France and the UK and the also import a lot of food, ergo it is possible for them to exist peacefully with their neighbors All three of these nations are ultimately under America's hegemonic umbrella
>>18427577>they could've grown their population while still relying on imports.>while still relying on imports.That's the thing though. Hitler didn't want to 'rely' on the US. He hated America and that drove much of his actions.You're trying to give Hitler advice but it's advice which requires Hitler to not be Hitler
>>18427597Yes but it's unrelated to the topic at hand.>>18427595I don't think it would be as simple as them having to choose between France or Germany. They could've been on good terms with both of them, especially if an emerging USSR was proving to be an even greater threat. Germany could've set itself up as a bulwark against communism, seeking friendship (or at least pragmatic tolerance) with both France and the UK.>>18427599>You're trying to give Hitler advice but it's advice which requires Hitler to not be HitlerI've already acknowledged this, and like I said then the way for Hitler to win is not to be Hitler since we know that Hitler lost due to Hitler's ways
>>18427603France was a Soviet ally, so no, in the context of 1930s geopolitics you can't be both pro-France and pro-Germany
>>18427603>Hitler lost due to Hitler's waysWell Hitler would have lost anyway simply because America wanted him to lose. It's impossible to defy the United States and win in modern geopolitics
>>18427605Since when were they a Soviet ally and why?>>18427606So nobody should do anything because they can't do anything if the US doesn't want them to or what's the deeper argument here?
>>18427503>the banks were startving out GermanyI thought you fags said Germany was totally independent of said banks and self sufficient, which is it>the USSR was going to invade at any momentso the solution was to invade the state that acted as a barrier, and divide it up between them and the USSR, seems very counter productive
>>18427503>International bankers were already starving out Germanythey weren't, Hitler just wanted more land by taking over other countries>and Soviet union was arming up and preparing to invadethey weren't, and Hitler made it worse, by agreeing to give them all that Eastern European land and giving them technology transfers in exchange for oil with the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, which made their military strength far greater
>>18427503All false and you know it
>>18427503>le SU was gonna invadeWhom exactly? Germany? Where? Under what pretense?
>>18427734Just like Iran was going to nuke Washington
>>18427503>Soviet union was arming up and preparing to invadeIgnoring the schizo-ramble about muh jews (the fact that France and Britain regularly worked in concert with Mussolini should dispel the notion of the Western democracies being unable to work alongside a fascist state in Europe) then had Hitler not expanded Germany this would have just resulted in the combined might of Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Eastern Europe repelling the Soviets and possibly even overthrowing the communist regime there. Of course Germany was always more concerned about making themselves top dog in Europe with the whole defending from bolshevism shtick being simple rhetorical flourish to hide their hegemonic aspirations.
"Just build the country bro" is not a valid argument because after Prussia failed to forcibly subjugate Europe it appeared weak and was preyed upon by treatise and banks. Germany could have been the ones to pioneer space travel (they kind of were, but you get my point) and it wouldn't have mattered because those Germans mining asteroids would have been taxed to death by a certain tribe of people who lord over all finance for some strange reason and wholly dictate world affairs. So it was either tell the Rothschilds to fuck off and wound them enough to destabilize their stranglehold on fucking everything or become a very capable slave. The only reason anyone has a problem with Hitler nowadays is because they are constantly informed of the world's most enduring hoax.
>>18427734The goal of Communism was literally global dominationThey invaded Finland and were about to invade Romania before Germany guaranteed it
>>18427568It means he's embarrassed to admit that Germany got btfo by British and Americans in a direct conflict fair and square. So he has to frame the victors of war as "le evil bankers" to make it sound like there's any substance to his whining.Under any other circumstances involving German victory in WWI, they would point their finger at you and say "vae victis". Nazi apologists have never been anything but intellectually dishonest.
>>18427551>Russia was too dangerous>that's why Germany had to invade Poland
>>18427734They already tried in 1920 before being beaten by the Poles.
>>18427719All that matters when it comes to historical narratives is the amount of video games depicting it until the end of time.
>>18427503>USSR is becoming too dangerous>I better made an alliance with them, give them all of eastern europe for free and send them shitload of weapons and machines in exchange for oil and wheat
>>18427503>what choice did he have?Not to invade Poland.
>>18427738Iran has continued to work towards the development of nuclear weapons and long range ICBM's. US strikes against Iran are justified.
