Is Nazism universalist or only for Germans?
>>18429249more for northern Euros more likeScandinavia and Benelux really didn't suffer too much when they were a part of the Reich and I highly doubt England would have been badly oppressed either. Everybody else including southern Euros were fair game
>>18429249The ideology of the NSDAP itself obviously had ideas peculiar to German politics since it was a German political party, but they never said National Socialism could only be Deustch. National Socialist movements appeared in other nations, something the Nazis didn't disavow, and the Nazis didn't expect them to pursue their own Lebensraum or anything.The NSDAP's racism was the German racism of the time. Slavs were hated because of long-standing rivalries and fears of the Eastern horde, Southern euros weren't as despised but were looked down upon, other Northern europeans were brothers. Asians (all kinds) and Amerindians also had their admiration, but they weren't quite viewed as equals. As the other anon said, they treated other Northern europeans pretty well (by the standards of a warmongering totalitarian state).Once the Nazis started being emulated in other countries during the post-war period, this German brand of racism was replaced with American conceptions of race ("White" vs Everyone Else) as their cultural influence expanded. This, along with abandoning other Germany-specific ideas like Lebensraum, is what made them "Neo"-nazis.
>>18429260>but they never said National Socialism could only be Deustchthe problem is that nazism is an irrational social darwinism/militarism ideology. you really don't want other countries near you to think they are the most important thing in the world, it's not that kind of ideology you want see spread to people that are not considered to be tha part of the "race" (whatever hitler whims decide who belongs to the race and who doesn't)
>>18429250southern euros had regular fascism instead but would not be accepted as nazis for obvious reasons
I recall a snippet how the nazis called norwegians "racial driftwood" during the occupation, to stop their soldiers from fraternizing (it didn't work). Some people imagine the nazis as being 100% ideological and racially driven, but there was a lot of pragmaticism as well. Even slavs who were allied (like croatians, or late war obviously polish volksdeutsche) were simply declared actually aryan (somehow).
It's Zionism for Germans. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>18429249It's specifically tailored for the German people. Those who are 'National Socialists,' who aren't German, are spiritual house niggers (Slavs being the biggest offenders).
>>18429249But practically not really. Even their racial ideology at the time was commonplace all across Western Europe.The nazis were not unique in their thinking and most of their policies were just a compromise between the nazis and the other German elites. Only thing differentiating them from the normal fascists is culture.Nazism is not a universalist ideology, it requires seing your people at the center stage, but it can be theoretically adopted by any nation and reinterpretated to fit the respective culture like communism was in Russia and the 2nd world.
>>18429359Forgot to attach the image. It's footage from a protest of the Tsagaan Khas (white swastika in English) who are a Mongolian Neo-Nazi Group. I think they embody this post-German Neo-Nazism the best as they are honest in their beliefs while still recognising that they are not representing the nazis of the past. All of their desired policies are copied from Nazi-Germany with the major difference that instead of the jew the Han Chinese takes centerstage as the primordial enemy of their nation.
>>18429249Fundamentally it was German chauvinistic nationalism. Anything deeper than that was a series of copes, lies and pragmatic compromises. Neo-Nazis at best steal the economics and the gist of the ideology.
>>18429249The original Nazism was just for Germans, or rather a specific type of German, of which all other germanics were meant to conform to and all others peoples either be enslaved to, or eternal enemies of to keep the German people militaristic and strong. Modern Nazisim is very different, it's barely the same ideology, it just has the same name. It welcomes Nazis of all shapes, creeds and races, just as long as they keep separate. A lot of modern Nazis incorrectly assume (or just straight up lie, which is a very common thing for them) that the original Nazis believed the same things as they do. Which is why you get so many weird Latinxs and other flavours of brown praising Hitler
Its only for germans, the nordcucks.Medfags will never do this.
>>18429379>The original Nazism was just for GermansThat applies to most ideologies at their inception. Even Marxism originally envisioned that the same countries which later became communist were going to become the reactionaries oppossing the revolution. The original purpose of Fascism was also at first only meant to apply to Italy. Ideologies don't arise from a vacuum, they are products of the cultural, social and economic norms at the time and are always reinterpreted by other societies.>It welcomes Nazis of all shapes, creeds and races, just as long as they keep separate.That's a gross oversimplification. There are certainly ,,neo-nazis" whose ethos derives from the le hecking wholesome nazis, but these are mostly an internet phenomena. Most active neo-nazi groups are usually like the Mongolian ones I described in >>18429361 where they apply the nazi doctrine on their enviroment and adapt it accordingly. That, or they are just generic white supremacists adopting nazi symbols.
>>18429387>generic white supremacists adopting nazi symbols.I just wanted to larp as a saka tribesman okay?
Nazism is a fundamental force of the universe. Time has proven that Adolf was right all along and like Jesus Christ on the cross his sacrifice, also heralded by the cackling of talmudic pharisees, marked the beginning of a new world and the crumbling of the old. As far fetched as it seemed at the time that Rome would ever be undone, so too today does the judaeoanglo order appear impermeable, and yet. exactly as der Führer predicted, we have seen it grow degenerate, decadent and corrupt. Just as Rome saw a decline in latin names in its leading figures and a rise in foreign, the old anglos are in decline, replaced by foreigners who flood into the anglosphere and their dominions, the only names at the top that stick being the -berg, -witz, -stein every fucking times. The Anglo grew immeasurably wealthy with his pact with the jew, but internally he is dying, rejecting even family and basic social reproduction in favor of his delusions and imaginary numbers in his bank balance, which der jude is delighted to see. A true favstian.
>>18429387>Even Marxism originally envisioned that the same countries which later became communist were going to become the reactionaries oppossing the revolution.If you wanted a similar example then you should've picked something else because this makes you sound retarded. Marx envisioned communism as the inevitable end result of industrialisation, and that this would ultimately occur in all nations. this is very different from Nazism, which originated from German exceptionalism and placed Germans atop the totem pole of nations. Not sure I agree with you about fascism either, it's origins are arguably as much French as Italian, who contributed influencual figures such as MaurrasThe ideology that compares best to the original Nazism is the American idea of manifest destiny. Other nations may adopt similar ideas, perhaps even give them the same name. But it would be a different idea to that of the American manifest destiny which is distinctly American.>That's a gross oversimplificationOf course it is, nonetheless it is correct. >like the Mongolian onesI don't know anything about them in particular, but their usage of German nationalistic symbols such as the iron cross and eagle don't exactly help your cause.
>>18429249There is no real coherent Nazism outside of whatever the fuck Hitler decided it was meant to be on a day to day basis.People always forget the whole "Führprinzip" part of it- Hitler could literally just unilaterally make shit up whenever he felt like and all his minions marched in lockstep. Inner opposition to Hitler within the NSDAP was killed off once Stennes, Strasser, and Röhm were killed or neutralized.
>>18429434>placed Germans atop the totem pole of nations.I haven't stated that Marxism was in any way similar to nazism. my point was that marxism was adopted as a state philosophy by countries which were not enviosed to become marxist on their own in the first place to highlight that ideologies can adapt to historical and cultural difference in different countries.>that this would ultimately occur in all nationsWhich would require the nations to become industrialised and progress from old structures, hence (at least initially) why he argued that colonialism was necessary to some extent to break down the old social structures which contradicts the later more ,,nationalistic'' marxist movements from the colonised countries. Granted, Marx might have probably changed regarding that stance later in his life, but I digress.>it's origins are arguably as much French as Italian, who contributed influencual figures such as MaurrasYou are correct, I just chose the Italians because they are the blueprint for most ,,generic'' fascist movements. But which rw nationalist movement can be pinpointed as the first fascist movement is irrelevant, because whoever it was doesn't matter. Whether it were the League of Patriots, the Boulangists or Morès et se amis, their ideologies were all central to their own nation.>nonetheless it is correct.Not outside of Twitter. How many neo-nazis do you think advocate for ethno-pluralism in their protests? Most usually are racist against whaetever people their nation had a century logn conflict with (e.g British, German, Ukrainian, Russian, Mongolian,...).
>>18429434>The ideology that compares best to the original Nazism is the American idea of manifest destinyThe ideology that best .to original nazism was the german Empire's foreign policy, because the nazis essentially saw themselves as the natural continuation of that, heck, most noble elites just went along with the nazis without any protest. Their Lebensraum already existed as a concept during the German Empire, the reason it became their primary focus instead of outside colonies is because they kenw that Germany would be unable to compete with Britain and France in that regard. The militarism was just a natural continuation of the Prussian militarism. Antisemitism was also a popular thing, though it never materialised in any policies, because until the defeat in WW1 there was no catalyst to justify persecuting the jews.>Of course it is, nonetheless it is correct.It isn't. Obviously there are idiots on the internet, but they always exist. Half of my twitter feed is nazbols claiming Marx as a white nationalist icon, yet they are also not representative on the modern state of marxism. As already said, most neo-nazi movements are not pacifist, they don't believe in transnational corporation against le evil jew. They all habor some desire to annex neighbouring land of whatever their own country is.> don't exactly help your cause.I don't quite follow, may you elaborate on this, please?
>>18429457>I haven't stated that Marxism was in any way similar to nazismYou seem to be making a different point here than the one you made previously. In either case, Marxism was initially thought of as an internationalist ideology, while Nazisim as specifically German centric. There is no comparison to be made regarding their evolution or origin. >How many neo-nazis do you think advocate for ethno-pluralism in their protests? This was not my claim, which should have been made obvious by the word "separate">Most usually are racist against whaetever people their nation had a century logn conflict with (e.g British, German, Ukrainian, Russian, Mongolian,...).This is nonsense. For example, French and British neo-nazis do not hate eachother, instead they tend to regard eachother, alongside much of the western world, as sharing a common goal.>>18429461>The ideology that best .to original nazism was the german Empire's foreign policyI am aware of this. Perhaps I should've been clearer, I meant as a foreign comparison. >Half of my twitter feedDo yourself a favour and get off that trash. >I don't quite follow, Why does a Mongol nationalist have an iron cross? It is a symbol of the German military of Christian origin. This is internationalism, this in no way reflects a movement that regards itself as separate or "not representing the nazis of the past". There is no doubt a great deal of Mongol iconography they could use, why pick someone German lest to direct connect yourself to a foreign movement? Regarding your previous point, how many other nazi groups do you think have a problem with these Mongols and their usage of Nazism? The vast majority of them are fine with it - provided of course these Mongols stick to their own and don't intrude. This showcases my point.
>>18429295>nazism is an irrational social darwinism/militarism ideologyno its not, how many national socialist theorists have you spoken with? how much NS literature have you read?>b-b-but da waryeah wars are fucking violent, stop the presses.
>>184295041)>You seem to be making a different point here than the one you made previously.I had something mixed up at first, should have clarified that I'm correcting myself.>This was not my claim, which should have been made obvious by the word "separate"Ethno-pluralism is not multicultarism. It's defined by different ethnic and/or religious groups living peacefully, but seperately from each other.>French and British neo-nazis do not hate esch otherThe British right, not even just neo-nazis were natuonalistic enough to leave the EU. Granted, some of it was mostly due to the EU immigration laws and borders, but also pathetically niche stuff like having British-looking passports were celebrated as successes by rw media. They may not hate the French, but British Neo-Nazis besides the white Supremacists certainly are not seeing them as brothers or allies.>Why does a Mongol nationalist have an iron crossReverance. The Mongolian Neo-Nazis even specifically stated that they just see Hitler as a great mand inspiration, but they do not claim to be his followers. Until now they and the Burmese Rock band (which I heavily recommend) "Iron Cross" are the only ones I could find who are honest like that, but most Neo-Nazis from my findings seem to at least convey this exact attitude in their actions. The Russians are the most noteable in that regard, they are openly hating the West, including Germany. Japanese Neo-Nazis also often tend to hate white immigrants.This is not even just a Neo-Nazi phenomena. The Nazis themselves, alongside the rest of the Western countries, took great inspiration from the Roman Empire and Ancient Greece. The international Neo Nazi skinhead culture was appropriated from the British Neo-Nazis who copied it from the leftist skinheads. As for how the Neo-Nazis view their foreign contemporaries, it varies heavily.
>>18429249National Socialism is the form of fascism created for Germans. By definition it's a rejection of all forms of universalism. Just like Italian Fascism is specific to Italy.You can be a British, Japanese, Italian, or Hungarian fascist and be part of the broader National Socialist-aligned movement. But National Socialism itself specifically refers to Germany
>>184295322) some will feel honored, some may be schizo enough to claim Mongolia inhibit the Aryan spirit. Some will feel amused, almost endeared that Asians are running around in nazi uniforms, some will be disgusted to see their aesthetic appropriated by lesser people and most probably do not care because Mongolia is far outside of their sphere of Interest.I have seen that many Neo-Nazis seem to have taken a liking to Japan and feel euphoric at the sight of Japanese neo-Nazis (even though the latter hates the former with utmost passion), but that's only due to the might of Japanese Soft power turning politicsl extremists into weebs.But the other Neo-Nazis, blacks, Indonesians and Latinos especially, are certainly hated by the white neo-nazis.I'm half Turkish and even as someone who is a model German citizen and doesn't show a particularly Turkish appearence (speak fluently German, pale skin colour, light brown hair and a white physiognomy from my European father) I was either met with disdain or pity in most right wing circles when I was politically active.
>>18429532>Ethno-pluralism is not multicultarismWhatever the semantics, I think my point will be made elsewhere in this post. >The British right, not even just neo-nazis were natuonalistic enough to leave the EUBrexit had nothing to do with Nazism and you know less about these groups than you think. Britain first for example has run campaigns calling for Poles to join their organisation. The EDL created a European friendship initiative with their continental counterparts. The UK branch of the Atomwaffen Division (Sonnenkrieg) is also full of Poles and has a close relationship with the German branch of the organisation. National action uk has close links with the Nordic resistance movement. Multiple UK based active clubs have been found to have international membership from across Europe. >ReveranceThis is a cope response. If anything you're making these people sound like a bunch of larpers rather than a serious organisation (honestly fair). Using foreign symbolism IS internationalism regardless of the reason. A western nationalist might have great respect for Russia or Japan, but if they went around shouting vive la France or whatever while waving an imperial russian flag and wearing a hachimaki everyone would rightly look upon them as crazy. >>18429537>I have seen that many Neo-Nazis seem to have taken a liking to Japan and feel euphoric at the sight of Japanese neo-Nazis (even though the latter hates the former with utmost passion)A case in favour of my claim. As does the Japanese dislike of western immigrants, they hardly believe Japan should rule over the west, just be separate. >I'm half TurkishAnd you would argue against my point that modern Nazism appeals to all sorts? In response to the counterpoint, you're not exactly being separate in the way they might want.
>>184296041)>shouting vive la France or whatever while waving an imperial russian flag and wearing a hachimakiComparing apples to oranges. Nazi culture is distinct from the German identity in the post-war conciousness because both superpowerblocks made sure to hammer this distinction into the heads of their subjects.I assume that might be a major reason why all fascists seem to be drawn to the nazis rather than the others due to Nazism having become the ,,vanilla default option" of fascism, but I digress. What I was trying to say is that is nothing to do with yiur theory of neo-nazis being internationalist, it's more akin to former countries and Empires larping as Rome or the nationalist movements in the 19th Century larping as French revolutionaries. The neo-nazis only appropriated the political identity and uniforms because they emulate their idols, but they are not drawn to the culture of Germany itself. You'd have a point if Neo-Nazis walk around in Bavarian Lederhosen, eat Pretzels and listen to German Brass band music, but these Neo-Nazis are only wearing nazi-styled Uniforms (and in that regard the hollywood style and not the historically accurate one) and brand the swastika flag instead of any German flags.>A case in favour of my claimIt is a case of nazis coping about having yellow fever and being addicted to bad anime.>they hardly believe Japan should rule over the west, just be separate.Neither did the original nazis. Because Japan is on the other end of the world. The Japanese neo-nazis have their own rightful ,,Lebensraum" in SEA, Europe is not of their interest. And no, they do not respect Europe. Just listen to what have to say about Christianity as a religion itself.
>>184296592)>And you would argue against my point that modern Nazism appeals to all sorts? Modern nazism appeals to fascists internationally, I have never disputed that. But these fascists use Nazi-Germany as as a solution for their own cultural conflicts. The Mongolian Nazis want a greater Mongolia and the defeat of the Han Chinese, the British Neo-Nazis look back to the British Empire or Rhodesia, the German Neo-Nazis are just the normal nazis who want to expand into Eastern Europe or just expell all foreigners from German territory, the Russian Neo-Nazis want to bring back the Soviet Union with a Nazi-styled Russian hegemony or just outright annex their neighbouring countries and so on.I have already mentioned Pan-European or Pan-white Neo-Nazis, but they are not the majority. >you're not exactly being separateThat is indeed a Factor, but do you seriously believe that if I packed my stuff they'd suddenly grow sympathetic to me? They only respect Turks to that extent that they don't care about them as long as they stay in Turkey, which has nothing to do with ethnopluralism, as even the Nazis held that belief for most inferior races already in their times
>>18429379Neo-Nazis have essentially improved upon it by turning it into an internationalism primarily for people who appear white. Unlike the original Nazis, this ideology is broad enough to include slavs, hispanics, and other groups as well.
>>18429683In other words, this concept has now become so broad that it comprehensively covers the Indo-European language family (Aryans) and their enemies (Jews). And it does not necessarily consider Germans to be superior to Southern Europeans.
>>18429604Think of it like how commies use Russian symbols. They aren't necessarily loyal to Russian culture. If the revolution had happened in France, they would have used French culture instead. That's about the extent to which you could say modern Nazis are loyal to Germany.
>>18429659>Comparing apples to orangeNo it isn't, unless you have some arguement about how hachimakis aren't specifically seen as an imperial Japanese thing in worldwide consciousness. The iron cross is still (in effect) the symbol of the German army, the western allies promoted the clean Wehrmacht myth. As far as the world is concerned these are entirely German symbols. Nor do I think the Roman argument is at all relevant, that is a regime that hasn't existed for 1000 years, and European countries even directly are or have imagined themselves to be the descendants of Rome. It isn't at all similar to MONGOLIANS adopting German symbols. I like your point about french revolutionary symbolism though, that's something I will have to think about. >Neither did the original nazis.This is the problem with arguing with you, you are precisely the sort of person I described in my first post. Yes of course they did, the imagined themselves as the leader of Europe, in a world colonially ruled by Europe. >they do not respect EuropeJust look at the flag of the originally named "Japanese national socialist party" They adopted nazi symbolism, as you might put it they "revere" German Nazis. >Just listen to what have to say about Christianity as a religion itself.Just like the original Nazis then? As if no European has ever criticised Christianity. >>18429665>I have already mentioned Pan-European or Pan-white Neo-Nazis, but they are not the majority.And I think you're wrong there. Every western neo-nazi group I'm aware of is in some way internationalist. You're welcome to provide counter examples, but I suspect you'll fall short. I've already provided a number of examples from the UK that are internationalist. These groups all have German/French/Italian/American equivalents. >the Nazis held that belief for most inferior races already in their timesSee above
>>18429733>Think of it like how commies use Russian symbols.Such as...? They use soviet symbols, but these were initially designed to be internationalist. It's not exactly comparable. No one waves the two headed russian eagle around as a symbol of communism.
>>18429520wrong
>>18429733Bolshevism is intrinsically tied to Russia and National Socialism is intrinsically tied to Germany. It makes no sense to be a National Socialist and be anti-German, just as it makes to sense to be a Bolshevik and be anti-Russian.>commiesNonsense word. There is no global communist movement and there hasn't been since the 1950s when the Sino-Soviet split occurred.There are Russian Bolsheviks and Chinese Communists, and the various third world allies of each
>>18429733Except most 'commies' are blindly pro-Russia. Hence why they support Putin despite Putin branding himself as right-wing
