Is it revisionist?
>>18431982It retains the Commodity-form and by implication has division of labor, exchange, wage-labor and private property. So it's a Capitalist State.
>>18431982Why did it work so well?
>>18431982Yes it is. No shit. Every Marxian state had to be revisionist of necessity in order to survive. If the state still uses currency and commodity production instead of for instance labor points of Mao Zedong or Pol Pot then it is revisionist. Marxism is no money at all not money with public healthcare.
>>18432015allowed banking
>>18432016Does that make China fascist then?Because revisionists are fascists after all.It's called social-fascism.
>>18431982No, Marx argued that only a fully developed capitalist state could transition to socialism; when he spoke of the workers of the "world," he was referring to Great Britain, Germany, the United States, and France. Mao wanted to bypass capitalism and move directly to full socialism, but the reality was that China lacked the productive forces to do so. Deng took a gambit by allowing Western capital into China, and it worked primarily because the United States believed that China, being non-white, would never pose a threat and would be easier to control.>Marxism is no money at all not money with public healthcare.It's always funny to hear dumbfucks that learned Marxism on Reddit
>>18432284Okay, but China is inarguably a fully developed capitalist state at the present moment in time. When does the society develop to the socialist state?
>>18432672It's called market socialism. Basically just highly regulated capitalism. There is nothing Marxist about modern day China.
>>18432198That’s not what Social Fascism is. Social Fascism as Stalin originally put it is Social democracies who align with literal Fascists to form a coalition against Communism while maintaining they’re just centrists. Examples include Nazis, conservatives and socdems forming a coalition against communists in 1930s Germany and also Azov/ right sector aligning with Kiev liberals in 2015 to put down separatist rebels from the Essence of Time party.
>>18432743>Azov/ right sector aligning with Kiev liberals in 2015 to put down separatist rebels from the Essence of Time party.>I can't believe that the Ukrainian political entities that oppose Russian separatists would work together to fight Russian separatists
>>18432015Because it's just capitalism with a different name
>>18432757https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism> Social fascism was a theory developed by the Communist International (Comintern) in the late 1920s which saw social democracy as the "moderate wing of fascism", particularly on the basis of their shared interest in class collaboration.[1] The term itself is Stalinist so you may disagree with it but I was clarifying what Social fascism is. Yes, social democrats in Kiev and Neonazis working together in this instance is one of the best examples of the term in the modern day.
>>18432767I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just want to explain the term, but if that's the case, it's still a terrible example because both groups were opposing a foreign political party that was fighting against their country. Their opposition is not based on ideology
>>18432767Mao also called the USSR social fascists under Khrushchev.
>>18432672 >China is inarguably a fully developed capitalist state at the present moment in timeNo it isn't what are you talking about? uneven development is stil an issue in China.
>>18431982Pretty on brand for socialism being whatever you want it to mean
>>18432839Well he was using the word wrong then. I linked the Wiki basic overview of what it originally meant in 30s.>>18432833Which ideology do you think the ‘New Russia’ separatists were? You can look up Essence of Time on Wikipedia to check.
>>18432845Uneven development is an issue in every single state on earth.
>>18432672China is still a developing country>>18432855Sure but in some country is bigger than others China has a big gap between both central provinces/coastal ares and urban/rural areas, even bigger than the US. China has a high purchasing power but the per capita GDP is still mucher lower than that of first world countries. It also still lags behind in some area like technological innovation and healthcare
>>18432848>Well he was using the word wrong then. I linked the Wiki basic overview of what it originally meant in 30s.Don't like your words being used wrong? What are you, a fascist?
>>18432874To add, I think the statements of the Chinese Communist Party and Xi Jinping clarify that China is still “state capitalist” and will start the transition to socialism by 2050. Xi’s and the CCP’s primary goal in the governing of China is to foster trade at the global stage and rapid development at home, to prepare the economic development necessary for a properly functioning socialist state that doesn’t collapse from starvation caused by a lack of said development. Ending capitalist oppression is worthless if no food to fill belly and child die from thirst.
>>18433037>capitalist oppressionBut isn't capitalism the exact thing that is developing China right now?
>>18432284This just begs the question as to why the revolutoon broke out in feudal Russia and China, instead of the caoitalist Britain and France.
>>18433041In Marxism, Capitalism is seen as a stepping stone towards developing Communism.Marxist-Leninism was an attempt at speeding up and blurring the process.Capitalism isn't just "bad"; it is a necessary stage because it developed the industrial technology and the massive working class (proletariat) required to sustain a future society.Feudalism: Agrarian, rigid hierarchy.Capitalism: Industrialization, urbanization, creates the tools for abundance.Socialism (Lower Stage): The workers seize the state and the means of production.Communism (Higher Stage): A stateless, classless, moneyless society.By the early 20th century, Russia was still largely a peasant-based, feudal society, not the industrial powerhouse Marx predicted would revolt first. Lenin tried to "jump the queue":Marx thought the working class would gain "class consciousness" naturally. Lenin argued that workers, left to their own devices, would only develop "trade union consciousness" (wanting better pay, not a revolution). He believed a Vanguard Party of professional revolutionaries had to lead the masses and force the transition.Lenin argued that instead of waiting for capitalism to mature in places like Germany or Britain, the revolution could break out in the "weakest link" of the capitalist chain: Russia, and then spark a global revolution that would provide the necessary industrial resources.Because the "stepping stone" of capitalism was skipped or cut short, the state had to step in to play the role of the capitalist: building factories, seizing grain, and managing labor. This is why many scholars refer to the Soviet system as "State Capitalism" rather than true Communism; the state simply replaced the private boss.
>>18433041Yes. Capitalism is useful as a tool to foster development if you are starting as a developing nation the 20-21st century. This does not mean capitalism is perfect, for oppression still exists in capitalism. Some of this can be mitigated through economic, social and political reform as they are merely related to functional inefficiencies and corruption. The rest are related to the specific kind of society that capitalism inevitably creates due to its own foundational principles. You cannot remove this oppression without attacking the foundational principles themselves, hence why it’s called a “revolution”. When the foundational principles of capitalism are replaced with new ones in a country’s society, economy and government to get rid of the forms of oppression in capitalism, you have socialism.Of course, capitalism is still useful to develop the country as socialism requires efficient means (think, infrastructure and technological development of those means) to plan the economy, distribute resources, create collective production and so on. Can’t do that if your country has no proper infrastructure and if other countries won’t cooperate and help unless you take part in the (currently capitalist) world market, as your country doesn’t exist alone on the planet and you need help if you are developing.
>>18433053Wow. This is an actual coherent explanation. I appreciate that.Still sounds like a moving of the goalpost though.
