These names are pretty cringeworthy and obviously purely archaeological there was certainly a common ethnonym among them. Veneti, and whatever its reconstruction in the PIE seems quite common in various branches. I read an author who says that the Danavas of the Vedas are an ancient ethnic group of proto-Indo-Europeans. The Vedic hymns speak of two ancestral races: Danavas and Sudanavas, "the good Danavas". This indicates that _Dānu_ became the basis of an ethnonym, appearing in the Indian Danavas, the Irish Tuatha Dé Danann, and in the same pattern of divine conflict in other Indo-European mythologiesCould someone cite some sources?
>>18434853Aryan is a common ethnonym used by Indo-Europeans until the Middle Ages. Proto-Indo-European form: h2eri̯óAnatolian;Hittite: arā-Lycian: Arawa Proto-Celtic; *aryosGaulish: Ariomanus (name)Old Irish: aireCeltiberian: araiaGermanic;*erlazNorse: Jarl Old English: eorlNumerous tribes such as HeruliItalic;Arius (in names)>Caius Arius Domitianus, on behalf of his son, vowed a vow and willingly fulfilled the vow.>Arius Goryphus, primus pilus of the First Italic Legion “Antoniniana,” restored the spring and planted trees; he gave the gift to the goddess under the care of Arius Diogenianus.Greek; from h2éristosἄριστος" and literally thousands of personal names containing this root, such as Aristaínetos, Arístaikhmos >but especially of a person best in socialrank("noblest"), (of a person) best invalor("bravest"), (of a person) best inmorality("mostethical/moral"), (of any thing) best inusefulness/utility("most useful")Even Aristotle, our Western father.We already know the indo-iranic versions
>>18434873Thanks! is there anywhere I can read this even though I have zero knowledge of linguistics? Also, what do you think of the connection between "good Danavas"?
>>18434875>Also, what do you think of the connection between "good Danavas"?Looks plausible but idk for sureWe had about a thousand threads about this and all the sources were provided. See desuarchive.org. there isn't a book that deals with this specifically because nowadays everyone is a matriarchal libtard
>>18434853Maybe teutéh1-???It means people or tribe Northern Kurdish tûde and Sogdian twδyh /tūδē/ Latin tōtus, Latvian tàuta, Lithuanian tautà, Irish tuath, Welsh tud, Gothic þiuda, Middle English thede and Teuton.
>>18434853Yamnaya and Corded Ware spoke agricultural languages according to more recent studies
>>18434853*cuc2kersAccording to Adams and David Reich
>>18434906>>18434902Stop trolling
Since the issue of the ethnonym has been mentioned, there are noteworthy points to be made concerning the Tocharians. Although much of the extant textual corpus is predominantly Buddhist in content, there are several terms that address the ethnonym as used by the Tocharians themselves..ārśi: TA; “Ārśi, speaker of Tocharian A” m.nom.sg.ārśi-käntwā: TA; Ārśi language, i.e., Tocharian A.ārśiñ: TA; “Ārśi, speaker of Tocharian A” m.nom.pl.ārśi-ype: TA; “the country of Ārśi, of the Ārśi people” n.nom/acc.sg.ārśiśśi: TA; “Ārśi, speaker of Tocharian A” m.gen.plhttps://cetom.univie.ac.at/?words
>>18434873This, but endonym not ethnonym. Pic related makes a very convincing case that the origin of the word was as an endonym used by the Scythian royalty specifically. This is why Darius the Great called himself an Arya. He wasn't just mentioning his ethnic background, as modern scholars claim (this of course wouldn't even make sense, when has a monarch ever proudly identified with the common people he ruled over (scholars claim the word refers to the common Iranic people)), he was making a claim to the throne through decent from Scythian royalty, which makes infinitely more sense in the context of the inscription. This isn't to say the Achaemenid line was purely Scythian. They were Elamite, Median, and Persian too. But, ancient Indo-European rulers seemed to be concerned with their Scythian heritage above all else.Keep in mind, the Scythians are the first Indo-European people in the historical record (the Cimmerians appear slightly earlier but are identical to the Scythians). The Indo-Europeans before them are a theoretical people constructed by Scholars based on archeology, linguistics, and genetics.
>>18436322>endonym not ethnonymDid you mean>endonym not exonym?
>>18436331No, I don't know what I meant. Disregard that part, I'm just retarded.
>>18436269Only good answer
>>18436322Its from PIE, not Scythians
>>18436322>He wasn't just mentioning his ethnic background, as modern scholars claim>he was making a claim to the throne through decent from Scythian royaltyThis suggestion comes out of left field and you have provided no motivation to invoke Scythian royalty. Also you've appealed to a nonexistent problem:>when has a monarch ever proudly identified with the common people he ruled overA straightforward answer is already provided by archaeogenetics, linguistics, and history. Everywhere Indo-Europeans migrated, they encountered foreign peoples. There is no reason to suppose Darius was non-Iranian or Scythian. If it is necessary, then all you need to imagine is that a distinction between Aryan and non-Aryan, Indo-European and non-Indo-European, was still active at the time of Darius. No homogeneous Iranian identity had yet developed.
>>18434853
>>18434853Yamanya = R1b-z2103, R1b-PF7576, J2b-l283 Corded ware = R1aBell Beakers = R1b-P312Nords = I1, R1b-U106I prefer yamnaya
>>18436394>>18436409>>18436410This thread isn't about China. Keep your mental illness to yourself.
Dasazilian, its off topic
>>18436393You're wrong There's R1b-L151 in CWC>>18436385Indian meme btwYamnaya were Europeans from Eastern Europe and the farmers weren't "nordic"
>>18436468Yeah but it's actually wrong, the thing is just copying and pasting outdated and irrelevant articles from decades ago. I apologize for going off-topic, but I need to shut this thing upIndo-European and ChinaWhat do the latest findings conclude?Li Nange lived during the late Yuan and early Ming **dynasties** and were descendant of Li Keyong. Based on the ancient DNA analysis of Li Keyong, this claim is indeed true. Li Keyong's Y-DNA is R1a-MF508080, and there are three samples belonging to this lineage.
>>18436468>>18436473OP hereOkay, thanks for the update, but why did this demon mention China if no one else did? Can we continue the discussion now?
>>18436476It's a well known spammer, active for years now. He usually shows up if something tangentially related to China appears on his radar. The picture with Beckwith apparently triggered his autism severely.It's suspicious because normally he shouldn't be taking an interest in our favorite threads unless its about Tocharians. Talking about Tocharians seems to summon him. Look here >>18436269But that's buried in the thread. Why is he reading about Indo-Europeans to begin with?Do you think it's out of the question that he actually monitors the board for keywords? It's possible to do with the archives. Talk about an unhealthy obsession...
>>18436393P312 is Single Grave and Bell Beakers. There's some among Nords as well historically and modern, not just U106.
>>18436468>>18436490Not sure which one's the dasazilian but >18436394>18436409is the chinkspammer
>>18436490You know, that's what discourages people from visiting /his/ and why people are leaving. It's impossible to have a single healthy discussion without it turning into trolling or monkeying around. Honestly, I regret making this thread.
>>18436269Douglas Adams says Tocharian A ⟨ārśi⟩, B ⟨ārśe⟩ reflect Proto-Tocharian *ārćye which he decomposes into *ārk- + -iye (where *-iye is from PIE */-i̯ós/), so the attested ⟨-ś-⟩ is from palatalization of a velar.It may be compared to the same root as AG Ἄργος since Tocharian reflects PIE *g, ǵ with *k. Ἄργος comes in a couple forms:Ἄργος -εος, τό (neuter) "a Greek city"Ἄργος -ου, ὁ (masculine) "son of Zeus and Niobe, king of Ἄργος"According to mythology, the place is named after the king.
>>18436671Were used as ethnonym
>>18434873THE YAMNAYA WERE NOT ARYAN; THE YAMNAYA WERE MESTIZOS RESULTING FROM TURANIANS, AND CROMAGNONS.
>>18436473Also:
>>18437029Chinese R1a-Z93 samples seem to be sponsored quite a bit by research organizations, and today a large number of Z93 samples with deep paternal lineage testing appeared, mainly R1a-F2935 R1a-Y65922 and R1a-S2359
Its overThere's some new Ancient Dna of genomic data of 89 Ningxia ancient people spanning the Neolithic through the Ming-Qing dynastiesThere seems to be a few R1a2, R1a1, J1a2 and J2a1 in there 3:Dasazilian and its outdated crap btfo again wow
Huesaar
>>18437027Don't use caps lock, anemic insect.>aryanWrong word, you bastard. Arya is a Sanskrit word; the word in question in this case would be h2ér-yo, and in fact, it was probably used before the Yamnaya themselves by the Srendy Stog.
>Don't use caps lock, anemic insect.>Wrong word, you bastard. Arya is a Sanskrit word; the word in question in this case would be h2ér-yo, and in fact, it was probably used before the Yamnaya themselves by the Srendy Stog.
>>18437029>>18437031>>18437036>>18437038Things become more uncomfortable for certain individuals when various ancient DNA analyses are underway for the large Z1 burial (2800 BC - 2600 BC) at the Husita archaeological site in Xinjiang, and this is important because preliminary research indicates that the cultural appearance of the city site and cemetery in the core area of the Husita (Xinjiang) site is similar to that of the Andronovo culture in the eastern Eurasian steppe region. There's also lots of samples The Aryans were already as far east as Western China and eastern Kazakhstan, already in the EBA with Afanasievo, and then continued by Andronovians. There is steppe ancestry and markers in central China as well
>>18437055You're an idiot, show everyone here that you're smart enough and I challenge you to refute the arguments. Otherwise, you prove to everyone here that this specific subject makes you angry and bothers you to the point of saying something as retarded as Cro-Magnon in the Bronze Age Lmao Prove your intelligence to us, you worm.
>>18436322>when has a monarch ever proudly identified with the common people he ruled overThis is literally the exact same thing. He was just describing his ethnicity with a term that would later fall out of favour
>>18437021No
>>18437055Don't think the pope condones racism, cumgenie
>>18437029>>18437031>>18437036These are Hui Muslims in Linxia (Gansu) who moved to Gansu from former Khwarezmia (huihui country) in Central Asia during the Yuan dynasty in the 13th century AD you one dumb mother fucker, and and also Tibetans in Gansu and Qinghai who mixed with Hui Muslims and Salar Muslims from Central AsiaThey have nothing to do with ancient Xia, Shang, Zhou and Qin dynasty Chinese from the BC era, nothing to do with Han Chinese people.Also, the Xia, Shang, Zhou and Qin never even ruled central Gansu (Linxia), that was later conquered by the Han dynasty.>>18437062>Husita (Xinjiang) Xinjiang, like Linxia, Gansu and Qinghai was not part of Xia, Shang, Zhou, Qin dynasty China.Xinjiang was inhabited by Tocharians and Iranic Sakas at the time, and central and western Gansu by Yuezhi Tocharians As I said, Shang China literally captured Tocharians in raids in Gansu >>18436409 >18436410 and human sacrificed them.Han dynasty China later conquered and annexed central/western Gansu and conquered Xinjiang as a protectorate >There is steppe ancestry and markers in central China as wellNope, those are Hui Muslims who moved to China in the 13th century AD and not ancient BC steppe ancestry dumbassNot a single Chinese sample from BC era Shang, Zhou Qin has steppe Y-DNAHui Muslims and Salar Muslims aren't Han and descend from Central Asians who moved from Bukhara and Samarqand to Gansu and QinghaiThere are ZERO R1a Chinese in Xia, Shang, Zhou, Qin territories from BC era.Hui Muslims descend from 13th century AD medieval immigrants and are less than 1% of China
>>18437029>>18437031>>18437036Ming and Qing dynasties are late medieval to modern era you retardMing ruled from 1368-1644 AD and Qing from 1644-1912as I said, Gansu and Qinghai were not part of ancient Xia, Shang, Zhou, Qin dynasties of China dumb mother fuckerThose Han in Gansu and Qinghai have minor autosomal steppe from marrying Sogdian women and Tocharian Yuezhi women from 2,000 years ago after Gan dynasty China conquered and annexed Gansuhttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17897237/#q17903565Hui people have R1A because they descend from Central Asian Muslims who moved to GansuMongol Yuan emperor Kublai Khan handed out Korean girls to Han Chinese men and foreign Hui Muslims in China. He deported R1a Central Asian Muslims to China and Korea and gave them Korean wives.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/7877569/#q7878460https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10828773/#q10830396https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/12668741/#q12672821Meanwhile Salar Muslims are Turkmen who moved from Central Asia in Samarqand to Qinghai and married Tibetan women in 1370 ADhttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/11852821/Tibetan women married Hui and Salar men from Central Asia which is why some Tibetans in Qinghai have R1a.>>18437062R1a in China is all post iron age R1a Silk road immigrants in the AD era, mostly Hui Muslims, Dongxiang/Bonan Muslims and Salar Muslims and other Turks, retardSome Hui left Islam in the late Yuan and early Ming dynasty (14th-15th centuries AD) and lived as ex-Muslims for centuries and tried to disguise themselves as Han like the Ding clan of Chendai and Guo family of Baiqi in Quanzhou and Zhou Enlai's family in Shaoxing.Those are the only non-Muslims with R1a. They still keep their original Hui family trees with foreign ancestors, externally they adopted fake family trees with Han paternal ancestors like Guo ZiyiName a single bronze age and iron age native Han Chinese sample from Shang, Zhou and Qin China in the BC era with R1a.
>>18437029>>18437031>>18437036>>18437062>>18437565By the way dumb mother fuckerThere are Iranic Aryans with haplgroup O and East Asian yellow river farmer admixture from post iron age era mixing in the medieval AD era. Does that mean ancient Iranics in BC era had O Y-DNA, retard? No.Cherrypicking retard, why are you projecting only Hui in Gansu (less than 1% and from medieval migrants) on all of China?I can do the same cherrypicking, the Iranic Jadoon tribe in Swabi is over 70% O3 while China has less than 1% R1a.Does that mean Iranics are majority O3 retard or ancient Iranics had O3? No, just like R1a in Eastern China is just medieval Hui immigrants and less than 1%.The Kazakh Naiman tribe in Central Asia is over 68% O3 while China has less than 1% R1aTibetan R1a is Central Asian origin, mediated via Salar TurkmenSalars have less West Eurasian autosomal DNA than LiqianLiqian in Gansu are paternally Han with half steppe autosomalSalar Turkmen men married Tibetan women for centuries since 1370 and they bred all the Central Asian autosomal out and only left the Central Asian paternal haplogroupsYou haven't posted a single study for your bullshit claimsSalars and Dongxiang are the ones with 30% R1aSalars look exactly like Tibetans.That's a lie retard lmao.Even in Liqian which has heavily autosomal Indo European DNA and blonde hair (not 95% autosomal Han), the majority of paternal haplogroups are Han.Iranic Jadoon tribe is over 75% O3 paternally while the majority of their mtdna is Indo-EuropeanUyghurs, Salars, Dongxiang all have the highest rates of R1a in China.Salars mtdna and autosomal is all from Tibetan women while they have heavy R1aUyghurs have like 40% R1aHan people have over 99% East Eurasian Y DNAKorea has Hui (Hoe) Muslim founded clans like Deoksu Jang descended from Central Asian Muslims and Omani Muslims who married Korean women in the 13th-14th centuries ADDoes that mean Koreans from 500 BC were R1a, retard?
>>18437029>>18437031>>18437036>>18437062>>18437576Crimean Tatars in Europe literally have O3Arabs (tribal) in Qatar and Yemen AND Turkic Crimean Tatar Nogai nobility (Mansurskiy family from Mangyt, Idegey bey) have Han Chinese Y chromosome O-M175. Results from Qatar, Yemeni and Crimea in this list.https://familytreedna.com/public/o3?iframe=yresultsThere's O3 Y-DNA in Crimea among Crimean Tatars, in Dargins in Dagestan, in the Naiman Kazakh tribe, in Tajiks, in Iranian Persians (2-5%), in the Pashtun Jadoon tribe, in Anatolian Turks and Azeris.Turkmen Afshar Iranian ruler Nader Shah had O3, one of his descendants in Iran was tested.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17520415/#q17520415Nader Shah Afshar with O3 Y-DNAhttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17520415/#q17520415East Iranic Aryan Afghan origin Jadoon tribe is 76.32% O3-M122 .Combined with another East Asian haplogroup Q-MEH2, Jadoon are 82.5% paternally East Asian.Their autosomal DNA and mtdna is West Eurasian.This is from medieval era admixture.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/16289104/#q16289104Does this mean ancient Iranians from BC and ancient Tauri Scythians in Crimea and ancient Afghans from BC had haplogroup O, retard?
Omanis, Turks and Iranic Hoehoe (Huihui) moved to Korea during Yuan dynasty-Goryeo and founded clans by marrying Korean women like Deoksu Jang, Sanggok Ma, Imcheon Lee, Gyeongju Sol.Deoksu Jang, Sanggok Ma, Imcheon Lee, Gyeongju Sol are all Korean families whi proudly boast they descend from Semu Hui men having sex with Korean womenThe Omani Sayyid Abu Ali married a Korean woman in Beijing during Kublai Khan's rule and founded an Omani-Korean Hui family. His children lived in Beijing and Quanzhou.Tibetan women and Korean women all married Central Asian Iranic and Turkic men and Gulf Omani menHan are the only East Asian men who married Central Asian women like Sogdian women.
>>18437029>>18437031>>18437036>>18437062>>18437581Italian Sicilians with haplogroup Ohttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17497264/#q17497264Haplogroup O in Saudi Arabiahttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17519172/#q17519172Haplogroup O in Iranhttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17520415/#q17520415Haplogroup O is majority in the Iranic Pashtun (Afghan) Jadoon tribehttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/16289104/#q16289104Haplgrpup O in Bronze Age Polandhttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17520653/#q17520653The Italian Sicilian, Saudi Arabia, Iranian and Pashtun O haplogroups are from medieval post iron-age silk road era race mixing.But the Polish O Y-DNA is bronze ageThere is more grounds to claim ancient Han Chinese founded Polish civilisation, than using post iron age silk road era Hui medieval R1a immigrants in the 13th century AD to falsely claim ancient Chinese from 1400 BC were Aryan.There's also Haplogroup O in Spain from the colonial era (16th-17th centuries) when Spanish brought back Asians from Philippines to Spain, including Han Chinese men.
Reminder Japanese BVLLs destroys Xinese midgets and took Chinese women as comfort toys.Chinese girls as young as 14 were being pleasured by superior larger Japanese males in the barracks. Sometime 5 Japanese man at a time take turn with Chinese girl. She must be very lucky happy girl :)Japanese soldiers stormed across China like an unstoppable Tsunami of Power. America had to save China by attacking Japanese women and children because Japanese army was too strong to be beaten.Japanese army defeated China many times for years. Japanese samurai warriors overwhelmed smaller weaker but more numerous Chinese bugs.1 Japanese conscript is worth more than 1000 Chinese elites.Japan is more advanced than China with higher HDI because Japan is racially superior to China.Frail Chinese boys rolled over and died when powerful Japanese men arrived and took their women.Japan is strong. Japan mogs.China = dog
>>18437758Morrocan Goumiers and Soviet Mongol Buryats mass raped little white German girls (and the Soviet Buryats did it to Japanese girls across Manchukuo, South Sakhalin and North Korea)They occupied all Germany and Austria, Soviets in the East and Moroccans in the west.Entire Han majority provinces of China were never occupied by Japanese like Shaanxi, Sichuan, Gansu, Ningxia, Qinghai.Most of Yunnan, Fujian, Guizhou.West Henan, West Hubei, West Hunan, West Guangxi, South Jiangxi, South AnhuiHan from occupied parts took shelter in unoccupied areas Meanwhile Japanese occupied all Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines and raped every girl and women there.Japanese raped 1 million Koreans in the Imjin war, 4 million Indonesians, 2 million Vietnamese.
>>18437758>>18437827Also Japanese were killing and raping those R1a Hui Muslims in Nanjing's Muslim quarter, descended from Central Asian Muslim men marrying Korean girls.
Wow not reading lolYou lost, dasazilian since Outdated shit doesn't matter at allTo kill you again:1/?>The Original Meaning of “Rong 戎” According to Professor Yu Min: “ … [The word ‘Rong 戎’] was meant to indicate a style of life—nomadism—in the spoken language of the Zhou dynasty. The seed of agriculture was germinated in the period of Shennong (神农Holy Peasant). Whoever reverted to the life of the nomads could be called ‘Rong’” (Yu Min 1999: 210). Accepting the meaning “nomadism” for the word “Rong戎” in archaic times, we now turn to the corresponding word “Rong” in the Proto-Indo-European languages.45 The origin of “nomad” is quoted from The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology (p. 613): nomad adoption of French nomade, Latin Nomad-, Nomas, pl. Nomades pastoral people wandering about with their flocks. Adoption of Greek nomad-, nomás roaming about, esp. for pasture, pl. Nomádes pastoral people, formed on *nom-, *nem- (némein pasture)… Rong 戎, Old Chinese *num > *nung, Middle Chinese nžong, Mandarin rong. Shuo Wen Jie Zi (The Analysis and Annotation of Characters, Xu Shen, 121 AD): “Qiang 羌, the western Rong people who live on pasturage of sheep (or goats).” (羌,西戎牧羊人也。) It is clear that the root of Proto-Indo-European *nom- is a cognate of OC *num. The sounds and the meanings are both equivalent. This is a good example of the fact that there were PIE words in the Old Chinese language.
>>18437758Japanese men are shorter than Han Chinese men and womenhttps://desuarchive.org/his/thread/16746138/#q16746167America supplied Japan with most of its oil against China until Japan invaded French Indochina in 1940https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17750156/#q17752588
>>184378332/?>Genomic insights into the complex demographic history and inbreeding phenomena during Zhou Dynasty on the Central Plains of China (2024)>In conclusion, we reconstructed a high-resolution phylogenetic tree and determined the divergence times and geographic distribution of sub-clades based on 347 newly generated Q1a1a-M120 sequences. We detected a complex substructure of haplogroup Q-M120, which is primarily distributed in northern and northwestern China. We pro pose that haplogroup Q-M120 was the dominant paternal lineage of the Rong-Di people in northern and northwest ern China 4000 years ago. These people were significantly influenced by the eastward expansion of Eurasian Steppe pastoralists during the Bronze Age and exhibited a mixed subsistence pattern of agriculture and pastoralism. The ancient pastoralists of northern and northwestern China facilitated the exchange of materials and culture between eastern and western Eurasia. They played an indispensable role in the formation of early China, Chinese culture, and the Huaxia people, the ancestors of the Han peopleSo yeah there's steppe presence in China. Mencius says that the Zhou emperors had ancestry from the Western Barbarians.. Your main premise, that there's no influence or contact beyond that outdated garbage you masturbate to with your finger up your ass, is simply outdated.
>>18437833You lost retard.You posted medieval and modern Hui Muslim samples from Gansu as proof ancient Chinese in Henan were R1a.Also the words Rong and Qiang referred to foreign barbarians by the Zhou dynasty retard, of course those terms are of foreign origin.The Zhou used those names to describe their enemies to the west in western Gansu, Qinghai and Xinjiang.Zhou dynasty and Qin dynasty were based in Shaanxi and conquered eastern Gansu and raided western Gansu and Qinghai
>>18437840Off topic btw>These ancient DNA studies also suggest that N1a2a-F1101 is likely the paternal lineage of the royal family of the Zhou Dynasty, whileQ1a1a-M120 is the main paternal lineage of the Rong-Di populations (Means “Barbarians” in ancient Chinese). Q-L712 > Q-L715 is a subclade ofQ-M25. The most recent common ancestor of Q-M25 and Q-M120 isQ-F1096 (TMRCA23,943 [99% CI29,686 - 19,012] ybp according to FTDNA). I think the presence of a derivative of Q-M25 in an approximately 3,500-year-old specimen attributed to the Karasuk culture is not particularly relevant to the origin of Q-M120, with which Q-M25 has not shared a common ancestor for the past 20,000 or 30,000years.>That the horse-drawn chariot appeared suddenly in China in the Shang Dynasty (ca. 1500 - 1066 BC) has led some Western scholars to believe that it was not independently invented by the Chinese but was introduced there by Western invaders. This paper is based on the premise that there is a connection between the transmission of the horse-drawn chariot from the West into China and the origin of some words meaning "wheel" and "wheeled-vehicle" in SinoTibetan languages. In particular, the paper proposes that words for "wheel" in some northern Chinese dialects and Bodic (Ti betan) languages are ultimately derived from an Indo-European source. On the basis of the comparison of words for "wheel" from various Sinitic and Bodic languages, the author has reconstructed the Proto-Sino-Tibetan root *kolo "wheel" which is itself an Indo-European contact loanword."
>>18437841Zhou dynasty royals are Haplogroup N (east asian subclade) you retard. They don't have R1a or R1b.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17955263/#q17960055Q1a1 was haplogroup of Peng state, a northern state allied to Zhou but not Zhou itself. It's also not Indo european.
>>18437850I'm waiting for the Zhou R1a and R1b samples retard!N1a2a-F1101 is East Asian Mongoloid Y-DNA and not Indo-european.That Q1a1 clade isn't IE either.
>>18437856N1a-M128 is East Asian Han Chinese Y-DNAIt recently expanded into Kazakhs in Central Asia It has nothing to do with Indo-Europeans.https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3688714/>Interestingly, N1a-M128 displayed a star-like STR network, implying a recent expansion of this Hg N lineage. Although N1a-M128 has the highest frequency in Central Asia [3], considering its presence (though low frequency) in multiple ethnic populations throughout southern China, N1a-M128 is unlikely to have a Central Asia origin. Instead, N1a-M128 may similarly have its origin in East Asia, reflected by the STR network showing an East Asia core haplotype (Figure 3). The high frequency of N1a-M128 in Central Asia is likely then due to a recent local expansion of this sub-haplogroup.>The contour map of N1a-M128 is different from the others with the highest frequency observed in Central Asia due to the relatively high frequency of N1a-M128 among Kazakhs (8.1%) in Central Asia (Figure 2C).>By comparison, the age of N1a-M128 is strikingly young (3.75 kya), consistent with the observed star-like STR network suggesting a recent expansion of this lineage (Figure 3). Because the reported Central Asian population (Kazakhs) possessing relatively high frequency of N1a-M128 did not have enough STR data to calculate diversity, we were unable to infer the time of N1a-M128’s migration from East Asia into Central Asia.
How does it feel to be spammed and humiliated with every reply? I'm not even reading your crapAnd moderators, this is totally off-topic.steppe people with PIE culture migrated to china at bronze age. Its a fact.Moreover they have records of steppe culture. About PIE words, wheel (wagon, chariot) and horse are two keywordsIts over. Over. There's Minor steppe ancestry in Zhou dynasty samplesAlso, not reading
>>18437874>>18437850>>18437841I think that weird Brazilian misunderstood what you said. Nobody said they were all Indo-Europeans or anything like that, as he said>>18436490The rat is invoked when Tocharian is spoken
>>18437874There's zero paternal steppe haplogroups in Zhou samplesThere's only minor steppe autosomal (less than 5%) in ONE Zhou sample.Indo-Europeans only lived in Xinjiang and western Gansu in Zhou era times, neither of those regions were part of the Shang, Zhou, Qin dynasties.Zhou samples all have East Asian Y-DNA and majority East Asian autosomal.Indo-Europeans in Xinjiang were half Mongoloid/Siberian and mixed
>>18437874Chinese word for horse is mǎ 馬 which is purely Sino-Tibetan.Non Indo-Europeans like Semitic Hyksos, ancient Israelites and Egyptians all acquired chariots and used them.
>>18437758Japan lost every war to China before the 19th century Meiji restoration when Japan exported 100,000 karayuki-san prostitutes to Han Chinese men to pay Britain to modernise their military, and also Japan begged Jew bankers like Jacob Schiff for loans.Outnumbered Chinese massacred Japanese at Baekgang and Noryang.Queen Himiko and Queen Iyo of Japan gave Japanese women slaves as tribute to Cao Wei dynasty of ChinaBohai/Balhae gave Japanese dancing girls as slaves to Tang dynasty China as tribute.
>>18437758>>18437907Chinese men from Fujian were grooming and importing Japanese women from Japan to Fujian, China in the 1920s, just a few years before Japan attacked China and set up Manchukuo.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17164434/#q17164434>>17164434Japan was a sex tourism destination for Chinese men for the past millenia70,000 Japanese girls were prostituted to negro Black allied soldiers in the recreation and amusement association after 1945.Over 100,000 Japanese girls were prostituted as karayuki-san to Han Chinese men and Indian male coolies in the Meiji and Taisho periods to raise money to industrialize Japan and spy in other countries.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/14238771/#q14241373And before that tons of Japanese girls were given to foreign Han Chinese merchants during Sengoku Jidai and Tokugawa (Edo) as well.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/12244603/#q12249572Japanese Karayuki-san prostitutes in French Indochina refused Annamese (Vietnamese) men as clients but slept with Han Chinese men.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#q9508255https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#q9525108https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/14238771/#q14241373Japanese teenage girls whose families were killed in the firebombings and roasted alive and atomic bombing in Hiroshoma (due to Chinese scientist and physicist Chien-shiung Wu) were forced into prostitution in the Recreation and Amusement association to Black negro soldiersOver 100,000 Japanese men, women and children were roasted to death in one day in Tokyo during the firebombings in Operation MeetinghouseHirohito the cuck watched his capital and palace burn down and his women, both Japanese commoners and his own relatives get fucked by foreign negro men.America then paid Japanese to experiment on Japanese children.https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/64239696/#q64267544>>>/k/64267544
>>18437883Yes, the claim of this thing was that there is no IR preseca of any kind in the region, which is false, whether linguistically, archaeologically, or to a lesser extent genetically, anyway, LARP.
>>18437850Aryan victory
>>18437062in Western China also the real natives were the Indo-Europeans Tocharians,Saka before the Uighur Turks. Pics from West China
>>18438002Pic related
>>18438007>>18438002Not only that, but there are already virtually homogeneous andronovo samples in their westernmost analogues, and they have been practically identified even in Tarim, and there are some samples with Afanasievo ancestry. If archaeology is correct, perhaps they were proto-Tokarians or something similar.
>>18437992Attila the Hun, Carthage, Ottomans, Avars, Golden Horde, Crimean Khanate Umayyad caliphate raped white people in real life unlike the fantasy scenarios you make up.>>18437850By the way retard, Rong was a blanket term for all barbarians to the west, including Mongoloid Tibetans and Tangut like people, like Di was a blanket term for all barbarians to the north, including Siberian Mongoloid people.As I said >>18437899>Chinese word for horse is mǎ 馬 which is purely Sino-Tibetan.>Non Indo-Europeans like Semitic Hyksos, ancient Israelites and Egyptians all acquired chariots and used them.Gunpowder, paper, printing, compasses were all invented in China so that means China conquered England since they use gunpowder, paper, printing and compasses?Horse strap for pulling carts, crossbow and stirrups were also invented in China.And the Q1a1a in Peng state in Hengbei is not Indo-European just like >>18437868 N1a-M128 is not indo-European.Again, unlike India, Han Chinese don't have R1a Brahmin caste or 50% of the population having R1a, Han Chinese never spoke Indo-European languages like Sanskrit in IndiaOld Chinese is Sino-Tibetan and was the only language in Shang and Zhou inscriptions.Every language in the world has loanwords, Indo-European languages are filled with Semitic loanwords.There's no Indo-European gods in China, Han Chinese in Zhou didn't worship analogues of Indra, Zeus unlike Hindus.
>>18438002>>18438007>>18438010Those Tarim mummies were basal ANE and are unrelated to the Tocharians who came thousands of years after them.Tocharians came from Afanasievo, Indo-Iranians like Saka came from Sintashta and Andronovo.Both of those were unrelated to Basal ANE Tarim mummies..Also that "western China" was Xinjiang, which wasn't part of the Xia, Shang, Zhou and Qin dynasties which were based in Henan and Shaanxi provinces of China.Tarim mummies, Tocharians and Iranic Sakas never ruled the yellow river valley in Eastern China.
>>18438010Forgot the picAnd, as mentioned earlier, the Indo-European culture of Karasuk influenced Shang dynasty China by introducing chariots and horses, among other words.The archaeological data suggest stronger connections for the Karasuk and Tagar cultures with China (including trade with Northern China through the Sayan Mountains, similar burial rites and artistic form
>>18438033Were these Tocharians "Karasuk"? What am I missing? I thought only Tocharians went to China.
>>18438035>Were these Tocharians "Karasuk"?Not really.The Tocharian people likely originated from the Afanasievo archaeological culture, which in turn was derived from the Yamnaya.Karasuk were more like andronovo or prhaps a para-culture, but both had direct or indirect influences on China.
>>18437850Where can i learn more about Indo-European lons in oldchink??
>>18438033>>18438045Note how the retard is refusing to give Shang and Zhou dynasty R1a and R1b samples, because they don't existAs said earlier>Chinese word for horse is mǎ 馬 which is purely Sino-Tibetan.>Non Indo-Europeans like Semitic Hyksos, ancient Israelites and Egyptians all acquired chariots and used them.>Gunpowder, paper, printing, compasses were all invented in China so that means China conquered England since they use gunpowder, paper, printing and compasses?Many non Indo-Europeans acquired chariots and horses>>18438018The Shang dynasty did human sacrifices of captured Indo-Europeans from westwen Gansu and Xinjiang.They were beheaded and dumped in sacrifice pits in Shang tombs.
Also, this issue of war chariots really interested me, and there's an interesting article I'd like to share, and to annoy the obsessed tard above who still hasn't understood that nobody is reading her semantic nonsense.>It is now accepted that the chariot is an intrusive cultural artifact that entered Shang China from the north or northwest without any wheeled- vehicle precursors. The practice of burying chariots along with their horses and young men with weapons who seem to be their drivers and archers is a distinctive mark of the Central Eurasian Culture Complex, which at that time was undoubtedly still exclusively Indo-European. Such burials are frequently found at Shang sites, usually in association with the burial of high ranking noblemen. As noted, historical sources on Central Eurasia from Antiquity through the Early Middle Ages attest that the men who belonged to a lord’s comitatus were buried together with him and their horses, weapons, and valuables.>The clearly marked advent of the chariot is a clue to an episode of cultural contact that deserves more attention than it has received.” Because all other known examples of chariot warriors at that time were Indo-Europeans, most of whom belonged to Group B, the newcomers must have been Indo-Europeans. Considering the intruders’ significant impact on the culture of the Yellow River valley, they must have had a powerful linguistic impact also, one not limited to the words for the newly imported artifacts and practices. So far, their language has not yet been identified more specifically, but it is quite possible that it represents an otherwise unknown branch of Indo-European.
>>18438079But weren't the Tocharians Buddhist and peaceful gays?
>>18438086Again, Tocharians in question are not related to charios, they are probably an evolution of the Afanasievo culture, at least before they were assimilated by Buddhist nonsense. Chalcolithic PIE 4500BC, Horse PIE 3500BC and Chariot IE 2000BC
>>18437850>>18438079Note this retard is quoting from Victor Mair's Sino-Platonic papers Mair said he founded Sino-Platonic papers for the sole reason of publishing white supremacist garbage that mainstream western academic journals won't acceptIt's literally in the preface of every issue of the journal.Mair did he does anything to try to claim Indo-European links to China from Central AsiaSo any white supremacist can write for his journal.Mair also said he wants to replace Chinese characters with Latin alphabet.And even Sino-Platonic papers acknowledged the beheaded caucasoid human sacrifice skull in the Shang dynasty pit.
>>18438093Chariots*>>18438079>It might seem surprising that the Chou, the ideal model of a dynasty throughout Chinese history, is traditionally considered by Chinese scholars to have been non-Chinese in origin. This view is not so surprising upon examination of the data on which it is based. The Chou came from what was at the time the western frontier of the Chinese culture area. The mother of Hou Chi, Chiang Yüan, was by name a member of the Chiang clan. The Chiang are generally accepted to have been a non-Chinese people related to or more likely identical to the Ch’iang, who were the main foreign enemies of the Shang Dynasty. The Ch’iang were evidently skilled chariot warriors in the Shang period, and were therefore necessarily well acquainted with horses and wheels
>>18438086Han dynasty China conquered Indo-European Yuezhi in western Gansu (Dunhuang) and conquered Tocharians in Xinjiang.Han dynasty castrated a Tocharian prince of Loulan and used Tocharian Kuchean women of Kucha as courtesans
>>18438096Let me see if I understand this correctly, is this a founding myth or what? It's ironic that they defecate on these Indo-Europeans while literally using their daggers and chariots, lol. It reminds me of the Romans and the Celts.
>>18438096Again this is from Mair's Sino-Platonic papersChinese don't trace ancestry by the maternal side, and Houji (Hou Chi) is revered as the lord of millet and agriculture in China.The Jiang (Chiang) 姜 clan were the consort clan of the Zhou dynasty Ji royal family (Haplogrup N), like the strategist Jiang Ziya who married his daughters off to the Zhou kings.The historical people known as Qiang (Ch-iang) 羌 were written with a atotally different character>Qiang (Chinese: 羌; pinyin: Qiāng; Wade–Giles: Ch'iang) was a name given to various groups of people at different periods in ancient China. The Qiang people are generally thought to have been of Tibeto-Burman origin,[1][2][3][4][5] though there are other theories.>According to the Han dynasty dictionary Shuowen Jiezi, the Qiang were shepherds, and the Chinese character for Qiang (羌) was thus formed from the characters for "sheep" (羊) and "man" (人), and pronounced like the word for "sheep".[7][8] Fengsu Tongyi also mentions that character of Qiang was formed from the words "sheep" and "man". Modern scholars have attempted to reconstruct the ancient pronunciation of Qiang: sinologist Edwin Pulleyblank reconstructs it to *kʰiaŋ in Middle Chinese, while William H. Baxter and Laurent Sagart reconstruct the Old Chinese name of Qiang as *C.qʰaŋ.[9]Again, this is modernist revisionism by Beckwith trying to falsely we wuz >Qiangs are generally believed to be Tibeto-Burman speakers, although Christopher Beckwith proposes that the word "Qiang" may have an Indo-European etymology and that the Qiang were of Indo-European origin; Beckwith compares a proposed reconstruction of Qiang to *klaŋ in Old Chinese to the Tocharian word klānk, meaning "to ride, go by wagon", as in "to ride off to hunt from a chariot", so that Qiang could actually mean "charioteer".[10]
>>18436383>This suggestion comes out of left field and you have provided no motivation to invoke Scythian royalty.>There is no reason to suppose Darius was non-Iranian or ScythianSo you're just going to ignore the book I posted? The book written by a philologist and distinguished professor of Central Eurasian studies. >you've appealed to a nonexistent problemCongratulations, you've defeated the rhetoric of a 4chan post. Now read the book and address the arguments presented therein.
>>18438102This isn't even the tip of the iceberg. If you read the story of Hou Chi, the "Lord Millet," the divine founder of the Chou Dynasty, it's a typical founding myth of Central Eurasia, and according to the book I'm posting excerpts from, it has close parallels to Roman myths, to the myth of Wu-sun, where the origin of the most revered Chinese dynasty could be represented by a founding myth so different from the norm. See>>18438096>The mounting evidence against the isolationist position, especially from archaeology, indicates that the intrusive Indo- European people who brought the chariot had a powerful influence on Shang culture and may even have been responsible for the foundation of the Shang Dynasty (ca. 1570–1045 bc) itself. The Shang realm occupied only a rather small area in the Yellow River valley in what is now northern and eastern Honan (Henan), southeastern Shansi (Shanxi), and western Shantung (Shandong); such a state could easily have been dominated by an aggressive Indo-European people armed with war chariots. Although there is no direct evidence for or against any such political event, the existence of the intrusive chariot warriors, and their influence on Chinese material culture, cannot be denied.Christopher Beckwith on the Indo-European influences of the Shang dynasty copied from his book the Empires of the Silk Road
>>18438096>>18438122>This ancient tribe is said to be the progenitor of both the modern Qiang and the Tibetan people.[6] There are still many ethnological and linguistic links between the Qiang and the Tibetans.[6] The Qiang tribe expanded eastward and joined the Han people in the course of historical development, while the other branch that traveled southwards, crosses over the Hengduan Mountains, and entered the Yungui Plateau; some went even farther, to Burma, forming numerous ethnic groups of the Tibetan-Burmese language family.[15] Even today, from linguistic similarities, their relative relationship can be seen. They formed the Tibetan ethnicity after the unification of the Tubo kingdom.[15] According to Fei Xiaotong: "Even if the Qiang people might not be regarded as the main source of the Tibetan people, it is undoubtedly that the Qiang people played a certain role in the formation of Tibetan race".[16]There's no actual proof the Jiang clan is related to Qiang other than Beckwith revisionism. No ancient Chinese text makes that commection>It has been suggested that the clan of Jiang Yuan, mother of Houji, a figure of Chinese legends and mythology and an ancestor of the Zhou dynasty, was possibly related to the Qiang, or was Qiang itself.[1][18][19] Some of the ancient groups were called the "Horse-Qiang" or "Many-Horse-Qiang" (Ma Qiang or Duo Ma Qiang), suggesting they may have been horse breeders.[14]>[18]Beckwith, Christopher I. (16 March 2009). Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present. Princeton University Press. p. 44. ISBN 978-14008-29941. Retrieved 30 December 2014Secondly, even if Jiang were Qiang, and Qiang were Indo-Europeans (none of this is from ancient Chinese texts but modern revisionism by Beckwith) is that means is that the Zhou dynasty Haplgroup N Ji royal clan fucked Indo-European wives
>>18438096>>18438122>>18438129>>18438127Jiang is the MATERNAL consort clan of the Ji, they bore children for Ji men, they are not the paternal ancestors of the Zhou dynasty J royal family who are Haplogroup N.You can't even keep your revisionism straight.First you relu on Beckwith's conjecture that Jiang is Qiang (no ancient Chinese text says they are related)Then you claim Qiang are Indo-Europeans (they are connected to Tibetans and Tibeto-Burman peoples in old medieval Chinese ethnography)Then you use it to claim Jiang were parental ancestors of the Zhou dynasty Ji royal family (Jiang were the maternal consort clan of Ji, marrying Ji men and bearing their sons)Also none of the Jiang clan or their descendants (who bear the last name Shang) are R1a or R1b>Although there is no direct evidence for This is hilariousSo there's no evidence that this happened but I'm going to claim it happened.The Zhou dynasty were also a fief of the Shang at the time and controlled southern Shaanxi.Also, all of Shanxi province and western Shandong province are mountainous and not easily dominated by chariotsThe yellow river plain is shielded from the north and west by mountains, all over Shanxi and in northern Shaanxi and western Shanxi and does not allow invasions from the northwest without comparing all those mountain regions.
>>18438033The wheeled vehicle and the chariot were almost certainly introduced into China by Indo-Europeans idk which culture
India speaks Indo-European languages like SanskritIndians have R1a majority Brahmin caste along with R1a all over other castes as wellIndian castes like Jatt have noticeably giant percentages of steppe autosomalIndian religion worships Indo-European gods like IndraThere's zero R1a and R1b in Shang, Zhou, Qin remains.The entire corpus of Shang, Zhou, Qin texts is on Old Chinese (written in indigenous script) not Indo-European.Han Chinese don't have R1a priestly caste or an over 50% castes of R1a people who are half autosomal steppe.O3 is the dominant haplogroup among Han R1a is less than 1% in China and mostly among minorities like Uyghurs.Indigenous Chinese religion has no Indo-European gods unlike Mittani who worshippped Vedic gods.
>>18438127>>18438096>>18438079Whether it's Karasuk, Andronovo, or any other cultural material we might define, it doesn't matter much the fact is that chariots appeared in China around 1200 BC, almost at the same time as chariots—used by warriors who spoke Indo-European languages—and simply capturing chariots doesn't imply mastery I'm somewhat undecided if Bronze technology arrived in China from the steppes, but the problem is that we don't know if it came with the steppe peoples themselves or if the Chinese were influenced by them through contact and then adopted it. But in all alternatives, there is early influence from steppe populations who, as you stated, were roaming the area since the third millennium, although without chariots.
>>18438157>I'm somewhat undecided if Bronze technology arrived in China from the steppesOf course, I understand your doubts bcause in this case the evidence may not be as conclusive as for chariots, but remember that we recently found evidence of steppe-style daggers, specifically Andronovo, in places as far away as Korea, so even if the introduction wasn't direct, I don't see any reason why it could be impossible. As for the Indo-European origins of the Shang rulers, we find burials with Indo-European-style (i.e., steppe-style) war chariots in the Shang royal cemeteries they could have been mercenaries, because I'm inclined to believe so.
>>18438157Hyksos and Israelites were Semitic and used chariots. Hyksos brought chariots to Egyptians another non-IE peopleAssyrians were Semitic and used chariots.Later those Semitics from coastal Levant founded Carthage and raped white people in Spain.Napoleon has a paternally Semitic Y-DNA haplogroup.The oldest surviving writing discovered from Shang so far is from King Wu Ding in 1250 BC and it says nothing about invaders or conquered or the Shang having foreign origins.
>>18438161>>18438157Again there's no R1b and R1a or IE language writing from Shang and Zhou China.Again every Zhou noble and commoner tested has Haplogroup O3, O2b, NAgain not a single Shang and Zhou grave has caucasoid skulls, only in the Shang human sacrifice pit there is oneWe can actually detect Alan and Moor mass rape in Spain because there are North African Y-DNA among Spanish and Latinos.Show us the Shang and Zhou remains that are caucasoid, R1a, R1b and more than 5% steppe autosomal.Shang and Zhou texts are entirely in Old Chinese, not in Indo-European and don't mention any invasion from the west or north
>>18438161>remember that we recently found evidence of steppe-style daggers, specifically Andronovo, in places as far away as KoreaSources? I knew that Andronovo had some kind of industrial-scale bronze production, but I find it hard to believe that their products could reach as far as Korea.>As for the Indo-European origins of the Shang rulers, we find burials with Indo-European-style (i.e., steppe-style) war chariots in the Shang royal cemeteries they could have been mercenaries, because I'm inclined to believe so.Or perhaps it's something more like what happened with the Sarmatians in the Frankish kingdom in the Middle Ages; they could have been used as cavalry support due to their skills with horses and, in this case, with war chariots. The Goths had something similar with the Iranians as well.
>>18438157>>18438161>>18438163Also litetally the only thing Shang dynasty oracle bones say about western barbarians in Gansu like the Qiang, is that they human sacrificed them and castrated themThe Shang oracle bones said they went on repeated raids against western enemies to behead them in sacrifice pits and castrate them.Nothing in the Shang oracle bones says the Shang themselves were from Central Asia and invaded China.
>>18438169The chariots buried in Shang royal tombs were private property of the Shang royal family.The Comfucius Kong family descend paternally from the Shang royal family (which continued to rule as dukes of Song)None of the Kongs are R1a or R1b.Not a simple Shang royal has caucasoid skulls in the royal tombThe only caucasoid skulls is in the human sacrifice put outside the tomb.
>>18438154Also Indians are lactose tolerant due to steppe genes and have entire Hindu rituals centered around milk which is sacred to them.Han Chinese are lactose intolerant due to lack of steppe genes.Milk isn't sacred to Han at all, ita not used in any rituals and was largely never drunk in China.Only some minor yogurt products were made at one point for lactose intolerants and never made again.
>>18438169>sourcesHere:https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315991114_China_and_the_steppe_Reception_and_resistanceAnd related pichttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liaoning_bronze_dagger_cultureAlso, i meant "steppe style" no andronovo specifically >they could have been used as cavalry support due to their skills with horses and, in this case, with war chariots. The Goths had something similar with the Iranians as well.The linguistic evidence suggests that these two possibilities are more likely.Qiang/Western barbarians were, at times, allies or adversaries who influenced elite culture, they were often characterized as enemies
>>18438185I think that makes sense. I see it like the Romans treated the Celts: influenced by them during times of war, and then adopting some of their innovations like chainmail. But I think the comparison is somewhat misleading because chainmail was simply cheaper; using chariots required time and training, and the Chinese received them from the steppes. So I'm inclined to believe that these Chinese were actually taught by the Indo-Europeans, even without necessarily considering them their allies. Citing the Romans again, they frequently used foreign enemy forces in their campaigns against the Celts and Germanic peoples, but when the use of chariots appears so early... nothing is impossible.
>>18438189Yeah, I think the problem is whether we're dealing with an invasion or not I share the opinion expressed earlier it's possible that trained mercenaries were used by them and then adopted the chariots, but that's still a direct influence, which makes our retarded friend above cry desperately.
>>18436322>when has a monarch ever proudly identified with the common people he ruled overThat's literally how kingship developed. The monarch was tribal head of a particular people.
>>18438191I'm not even looking at what this schizophrenic is saying, so who cares?
>>18438025>Those Tarim mummies were basal ANE and are unrelated to the Tocharians who came thousands of years after them.And yet they had European phenotypes. What does that tell you?ANE and Aryans descended from the same Hyperborean root race.
>>18438191>>18438189Invaders and mercenaries would have left a distinct group of R1a and R1b people There's no R1a or R1b in pre iron-age China east of Gansu province.Show me R1a in Shang and Zhou era Shaanxi and Henan Must have been impotent limp dick mercenaries with micropenises.
>>18438191>>18438189OR The nomads and Indo-Europeans in particular could be seen as vehicles for cultural exchange across many thousands of miles, connecting the eastern and western parts of the ancient world. The long-distance contacts between societies in the Yellow River regions and those beyond the northern and western frontiers of present-day China go far back in time. MUCH more simple
>>18438205>OR The nomads and Indo-Europeans in particular could be seen as vehicles for cultural exchange across many thousands of miles, connecting the eastern and western parts of the ancient world.You realize that you basically repeated what we said, right, genius? Simply capturing chariots isn't enough when it's something relatively new and generally used by Indo-Europeans.
>>18438207Semitic Assyrians, Israelites and Hyksos all used chariotsSemitic Hyksos introduced chariots to Egypt.
>>18437036They Still had steppe ancestry
>>18437036>>18438209>>18437534>These are Hui Muslims in Linxia (Gansu) who moved to Gansu from former Khwarezmia (huihui country) in Central Asia during the Yuan dynasty in the 13th century AD you one dumb mother fucker, and and also Tibetans in Gansu and Qinghai who mixed with Hui Muslims and Salar Muslims from Central Asia>They have nothing to do with ancient Xia, Shang, Zhou and Qin dynasty Chinese from the BC era, nothing to do with Han Chinese people.>Also, the Xia, Shang, Zhou and Qin never even ruled central Gansu (Linxia), that was later conquered by the Han dynasty.Ningxia and Central Gansu were not part of the Shang, Zhou or Qin.The Zhou/Qin conquered the eastern edge of Gansu and the Shang/Zhou/Qin raided enemies in central Gansu and NingxiaThere's no pre-iron age R1a or R1b samples on Shang, Zhou and Qin territory east of Gansu and Ningxia None in Shaanxi, Henan, Shanxi.Xinjiang, Ningxia and most of Gansu were not part of China at that time.
We can summarize this in two points: 1) *In-to-out* model: Advocated by Ho Ping-ti and other Chinese academics, this basically claims that technologies and sciences originated in the Yellow River Valley and spread from within China outwards. 2) Argues that nomads and Indo-Europeans were agents of cultural exchange between East and WestAlthough not necessarily related to Indo-Europeans, the charred grains found in western Gansu indicate that wheat was domesticated in Western Asia and entered China from the northwest in the 4th-3rd millennium BCE, reaching the Central Plains only in the 2nd millennium BCE. Therefore, China was not as isolated as is often claimed.Chariots did not exist in China until the end of the Shang dynasty, approximately 1250 BCE, in the sacrificial wells of Yinxu. However, in Central Asia (Kazakhstan), there are records from 2000-1800 BCE. The style and technology are very similar, implying a transmission from the west to the Yellow River Valley. Furthermore, long-distance contacts with regions beyond the northern and western borders of present-day China are very ancient, and Indo-Europeans would have played a key role in this cultural/technological transmission to the Yellow River Valley.
Not everyone agrees that the Sintashta culture vehicle finds are true chariots.In 1996, Mary Aiken Littauer and Joost Crouwel wrote:[11]>Let us consider what is actually known of the Sintashta and Krivoe Ozero vehicles. At Sintashta, there remained only the imprints of the lower parts of the wheels in their slots in the floor of the burial chamber; Krivoe Ozero also preserved imprints of parts of the axle and naves. At Sintashta, the wheel tracks and their position relative to the walls of the tomb chamber limited the dimensions of the naves, hence the stability of the vehicle. Ancient naves were symmetrical, the part outside the spokes of equal length to that inside. The present reconstructions of the Sintashta and Krivoe Ozero vehicles above the axle level raise many doubts and questions, but one cannot argue about something for which there is no evidence. It is from the wheel track measurements and the dimensions and positions of the wheels alone that we may legitimately draw conclusions and these are alone sufficient to establish that the Sintashta-Petrovka vehicles would not be manoeuverable enough for use either in warfare or in racing.
>>18438220Peter Raulwing and Stefan Burmeister consider the Sintashta and Krivoe Ozero finds from the steppe to be carts rather than chariots:[12]>However, recent discoveries in the Eurasian steppe have provided fresh support to the claim that the chariot originated there, rather than in the Near East itself, and may be attributed to speakers of an Indo-Iranian (or Indo-Aryan) language. In particular, archaeological remains of horse gear and spoked wheeled vehicles have been found at the sites of Sintashta (Russia) and Krivoe Ozero (northern Kazakhstan), with calibrated radiocarbon dating to ca. 2000–1800. These finds, however, provide evidence of a two-wheeled spoked cart that does not fit the definition of the ancient Near Eastern chariot. Before these discoveries can help answer the question of where the chariot originated, thorough studies of the spoked wheeled vehicles and horse gear of the steppes, as well as of interconnections and transfer of knowledge, are necessary (cf. Epimachov and Korjakova in Fansa and Burmeister 2004).
