>>18436567
atheism isn't a religion anymore than theism is a religion, it describes a broad range of secular philosophies, you're not actually saying anything of value or substance here.

>>18436567
Christickcs don't actually believe trannies aren't real women. They just deny it because they are closeted homosexuals who wish they had the courage to come out.

>>18436584
atheism is a religion. if we use the modern term we know as atheist, then every atheist believes in the same nondual god unless he is agnostic. that is the spirit of atheism. and theism, if you say theism i understand it as it really is something christian. there were atheists in the past but they had different spiritualities. they also all believed i think in this nondual god. so you could say atheism is really, one of the ancient religions still extant or resurging.

>>18436617
>atheism is a religion
Okay then name its theological tenets

Inb4:
>uhhhh gay sex and uhhh Joe Biden and uhhhhhhhhh fedora hat and uhhh

>>18436619
thats not atheism. thats gay sex and joe biden and fedora hat. atheism is none of that stuff its simply the core is, there is no jesus in the sky, there is no yahweh in the sky, these are not real jesus is long dead if he existed, and there is no such thing as god. what this then means is, you clearly believe that these statements are. they are not just maybe true and you would be a fool if you said nothing can be known. so, who or what is the core of your belief? this nondual god. every wheel has a center. no center, no wheel is produceable. people who are on 4chan, these type of atheists or russian atheists. these are the true atheists. joe biden and gay sex comes i think from people who are agnostic, and agnostics are so gay and fake they dont believe anything as the name agnostic implies no knowledge. so they are swayed by the movements of ordinary society whatever that society does they do even if it culminated in killing freshly born babies. and this was actually legalized now in new york afaik, lol.

>>18436629
>muh abortions
Most abortions are black. Why would I care? They're a drain on the system.

>>18436567
>nondualism
You're just atheist in a roundabout way. It's okay, some people need crutches.

>>18436634
it doesnt matter man. all im saying is, i want to convince you to look deeper and maybe pray or meditate. if you dont pray tell me why, everyone likes to talk why not talk to nothing instead sometimes?

>>18436643
if theres no meaning to life and nothing matters, why not try to pray, you say it doesnt work, pray what lies in your heart and pray to yourself or to nothing. explain why you dont do that.

>>18436652
>explain why you dont do that.
I'm not delusional.

>>18436663
thats a statement you think i am not an explanation in detail why you never thoight maybe this prayer stuff works even without a god. i read theravada buddhists pray but not to god just for the prayer itself.

>>18436667
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

>>18436674
i just want a more detailed explanation as to why you think prayer is bad or at least meaningless.

>>18436687
It's meaningless for the same reason that magic spells are meaningless. The world doesn't work like that.

>>18436695
you didnt understand how i personally pray. i dont pray "for shit". i just pray talking to god, maybe seeing things newly how i discover things about my soul workings, and so on. and that objectively works i always feel better afterwards. basically scientific 100 percent if you want this angle. provable in my very earthly life.

>>18436617
i believe in a different non god i'm not like all the other atheists
you wouldn't get it

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>>18436567
Save yourself the trouble and be one of the first; say it from your mouth: I Accept Darkness, I believe in Hell

>>18436702
>i just pray talking to god
>discover things about my soul workings
So, these are just delusions. If it's true that you feel better afterwards, that just means your brain has been temporarily conditioned to release some oxytocin or serotonin or whatever when you engage in this meaningless ritualistic action.

>>18436716
are you trying to make me an atheist? its impossible to be after the knowledge i received. and why are you so hardened?

>>18436808
I was just giving you the scientific explanation of your experiences, one which does not require gods or souls.

>>18436829
and why? everyone knows that is what science says todays. search your heart youre preacjing the nondual god sunconsciously and dont even notice haha. i dont believe in a literal soul.. like buddha said we dont have souls that live on after we die we just have a consciousness line rebirth after death or whatever heaven hell.

>>18436840
>everyone knows that is what science says todays.
Okay, but your earlier post gave me the impression that you didn't.

You people can't even agree on your own fucking religion. You can't agree on christology, you can't agree on ecclesiology, you can't agree on soteriology, christianity has been thoroughly pomo-ified into the same whatever-floats-your-boat slop you accuse atheists of adhering to. And the same goes for pisslam, same goes for hinpooism, same goes for buddhism, etc. No matter what choice you make in your religious beliefs, the only thing you truly submit to is your own choice, which is no submission at all.

>>18436855
i dont follow science but buddhism in the soul stuff.

>>18436860
im a shia muslim, i think i submit to faith. faith is always the same because its one thing thats like the caba the caba is the same whether youre mexican or pakistani. same with real faith. there are almost no such whatever floats your boat stuff in islam because i think the religion was established in the form of true faith and true faith cannot be changed by people.

>>18436871
You submit to your own opinion that shia islam is the one true faith. It is a quirk of your own unique psychology that you feel this way instead of feeling inclined towards orthodox christianity or theravada buddhism or any other third thing. If there is transcendent TROOTH to be found in any religion, we evidently have no reliable means to access it, because there are many religions but only one of them can be correct

>>18436875
i agree that only one can be correct. however, this correct is supernatural. you cannot reason it. it is a gift of god and choice by your heart subconsciously so to speak. you can reach it easier if you do the rituals though obviously. so but yes all religions contain truths, however wisdom is universal it can be gained by ritualistic worship and anything that produces wisdom which isnt just sitting and thinking really hard because ultimate truth or semi ultimate truth needs inspiration either by god or supernatural beings close to god such as brhmn in hinduism or primordial buddha in theravada buddhism two religions i respect greatly and learn from. i think shia islam doesnt contain enough revelation on all topics that i can read only shia islam, so i read buddhism, and hinduism as well. because those saw other important stuff about the world shia islam didnt talk about.

>>18436875
and we do have means to access through our heart which can be called the subconscious. this heart can witness god if we try to find him possibly. still learning about religion from this viewpoint of enlightenment.

>>18436888
>but yes all religions contain truths, however wisdom is universal
Ok great, you're a relativist just like every atheist, religious "none", buddhist, liberal protestant who thinks sodomy is based, and new age kook addicted to LSD. Have a good day!

>>18436892
why drop the convo? cmon. what is a relativist in your conception.

>>18436868
You follow science when you need to use your computer to post on the internet but stop following it when it comes to your religious beliefs?

>>18436900
yes. this computer is just a tool. its nothing compared to the glory that awaits me if i happen to enter the afterlife on good terms. or the bliss i feel during namaz (muslim prayers)

>>18436903
I see.

>>18436584
Moldbug, the greatest thinker of our time, btfo Dawkins so now he just admits he's a nontheistic Christian.

>>18436906
what do you see?

>>18436909
>Moldbug
Who? Sounds like a grifter.
> btfo Dawkins so now he just admits he's a nontheistic Christian.
I keep seeing low IQ retards online repeat this lie, but Dawkins has always said he was a cultural christian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7136682.stm

>>18436619
Even a dumbass like me can answer your strawman argument.
Most atheists (not the loud minority, atleast from personal experience) believe in a higher power but not in any of the religious texts ,they understand that either we are astronomically lucky to even exist even with infinite time made account for to be formed randomly,or we were created.
The atheists who pray to science however,it's always a retarded argument NGL, eventhough I'm trying to be respectful,but their whole argument is that either,I can't see god so god isn't real the same way you can't see a virus you fucking retard,or if god is all loving then why did he punish people or not make us enter heaven right away,my personal answer is the simple fact that in many texts,it's always told that the higher being is providing us a tests in the form of our mortal life, everything is already set in stone (but it's a paradoxical delimma I can say my personal answer for later)to count our virtues and sins,even in non orthodox Christianity/Catholicism,yes Christ did die for your sins but he still orders you do virtue and beware of sin.
The argument that if god already knows everything that is,was and will be,then why do we even live/not already in heaven/hell? Personally,I think of it like god is watching a show,he already knows what's happening but he's seeing the show himself,and even that can't do it justice because god is outside all of what we understand,it's like you trying to mentally imagine a true 4d object.
Tldr: two types of atheists,ones that aren't convinced by current religions but know there's a god out there. And the retards that are atheist for some retarded strawman argument. The difference between the first and second is intelligence,you could actually convince the first to enter a religion,whether it be sunni/orthodox islam, orthodox Judaism, orthodox Christianity, catholicism, Buddhism etc. etc. But the second is atheist for the sake of being atheist.

>>18436950
Learn to write, dumbass.

>>18436950
Clearing the first bit about punishment,Its a chance for us to reattain his love through his tests and as it was always said, patience is a virtue and god wants to see if you would break and stray away and as always,god knows best. Even if you stray away,god is the one who can understand why and either forgive you or punish you. And only god knows,(or the subatomic quantum particles) and the punishment inflicted on mankind. Well they are punishments,and the argument about why there's so much evil in the world. In islam atleast,god already stated through Muhammad that one out of each 9999 children of Adam is going to heaven,and when prophet Muhammad declared that,his fellowship questioned and began panicking until Muhammad cleared the confusion by saying,that includes all humans there is,was and will be and even the tribes of yajuj and majuj(basically a sub species of humans that outnumber/equal us that are sealed away til the end of times). The evil,wars, starvation. They are all tests for both the one inflicted with the pain or even a Scape goat so god can put them to heaven the moment their soul is reaped ,and a rest for the fellow humans. Would the soldier seeing the wounded enemy tend to them? Give them a peaceful rest? mercifully kill him?(Eventhough it's a sin to mercy kill, because it's counted as cutting away potential virtue of patience from the inflicted) And would the ones able to feed others actually feed them when they see them begging on the street? The ones inflicted are ones god is granting easy virtues for as long as they don't stray away and a test for those surrounding them

>>18436952
Read my fucking name retard,I'm just a nigger from the pyramids

>>18436950
>most atheists actually believe in a higher power because they think evolution is bullshit
Is this actually what people think outside of civilized countries? lol

>>18436958
Well,not going to say Egypt is a first world country. But our AVG intelligence is quite high,both academically speaking and iq. And I said from personal experience,across the internet basically,I haven't met but 3 or so actual atheists in real life and they were the second. Atheists aren't really common in Egypt,there are those who are Muslim/Christian only by name as we say,but I wouldn't count them as atheist. Same way you don't count reddit's r/atheism as actual respected atheists. Just saying my side,not here to argue but talk.

>>18436954
hello pyramid anon. how do you view the catholics of europe?

>>18436967
I'm not saying you're dumb, but you're in a bubble. In Europe, the majority believes in evolution even in countries where the majority isn't atheist or agnostic. But yeah I can see how that would feel weird if you live in Egypt where creationism is the norm and belief in evolution is fringe.

>>18436968
Ironically,I went on a month long vacation to Paris/Disneyland,Spain and Andorra. I haven't met any proper Christians while there/haven't really conversed about religion. But from the highly subjective lens of social media. I think European religious people all together are either extremely religious or actively practicing what they are preached.even Catholics Unlike what I see in America with the mega churches,the lack of doing what they preach,the amount of diddling. (Side note,what the fuck is up with child predators in the west? Why are they so fucking much) . Can't really say anything about them , but if you care to continue reading,mypersonal experience however of Egyptian Christians who are orthodox, I have satirically divided them to three groups, you got the guy drowned in gold necklaces to show that he's Christian alongside a tattoo of his wife's name on his forearm and is basically Italian with an Egyptian look. Then you got the AVG middle to upper class Christian,just your average guy,polite, respectful wouldn't drink water Infront of you in Ramadan the same way we don't like to eat meat and fish and whatnot Infront of them during their own fasting and you don't know is even Christian until he tells you his name is philopeter or Kevin or dawud and then you got the church folk that are basically Jews,they are a group of Christians that act as one via their church, gathering money from eachother, protecting eachother, owning almost every business around the church and what not.

>>18436975
this last group seems most interesting. what are the second group like do this group practice christianity well? is the third group really religious in the christian sense, because thats how it seems. like they are ordinary christians basically and the other two seem like fakers which you seem to have implied.

>>18436975
also what is your personal opinion of shia islam, only religious question, and what do you think about islam from your side how religious and stuff like that are you do you pray, what is your knowledge of hadith spanning and so on i rarely meet real third worlders on here on his.

>>18436973
Oh no no no,firstly like to apologise about reading your reply in an aggressive way. Secondly,we don't exactly believe in evolution but we dont believe in the "god created the universe in 6 days" either. We(sunni islam atleast) believe that god **designed** the world from the start of time to the end of times,every single sub atomic particles in the span of six days and then the world began to age and that can be interrupted in a different way also because in islamic texts it's described that a human equivalent of a day to god is a thousand years to us.
And personally, the four main answers to evolution and such by islam is.(Some ai summary but pretty much accurate)

>Rejection of Human Evolution: Most Islamic scholars and theologians maintain that Adam was created directly by Allah and is not the result of a long evolutionary process. The Quranic account describes Adam being created from clay, suggesting a miraculous, independent creation.
What I believe>Theistic Evolution (Accommodation): Some modern thinkers and scientists, such as Dr. Rana Dajani, propose that evolution is a mechanism for creation guided by God. They see no inherent contradiction between scripture and science, viewing the story of Adam as potentially symbolic, though this is a minority view among traditional scholars.
>Adaptation vs. Evolution: Many believe that while Allah created species in their current forms, He permitted variation and adaptation (microevolution) within species, but not the evolution of one distinct species into another (macroevolution).
(What I also personally believe) >The "Gap" View: Some interpretations suggest the existence of human-like beings before Adam, acknowledging fossil records while holding that "humanity" began specifically with Adam.
And of course,only god knows. I'm not sheikh,just a computer science student that's into reading about stuff

>>18436980
>propose that evolution is a mechanism for creation guided by God.
Funny how god chose the one mechanism which would make him unnecessary!

>>18436980
Interesting, thanks for the info.

>>18436978
>>18436977
Firstly,your question about Christians. Firstly,their religiousness is malleable the same way we can say that this Ahmed guy is a scammer,murderer and only Muslim by name,the same could be said about Christians. But on average, Christians in general in Egypt are really religious but each show it in a different way,the first one drowns himself in gold and tattoos,the second are just normal who don't really care about proving to anyone who they are because you aren't god to judge them. And the first and second group can also be part of the third,and they aren't much common that those who gather and live near churches are like how I described them but it wouldn't be a surprise either to stumble on one. (Side note:us Egyptians atleast, do think that most Christians in the world are destined to hell because it's stated in Christianity that there shall be a prophet after isa/jesus ,that is obviously Muhammad (pbuh) but we also believe that we aren't god and only god can judge them and that some of them practice Christianity the same way isa/jesus did and be as worthy as us for heaven)
Second question about Shia, there's no in-between,they are straight up kufar/non-beleivers ,based on the mere fact they idolise the fellowship that followed prophet Muhammad more than they do to prophet Muhammad himself or even god. And if I am correct they basically believe that a lineage of (depending on the tribe/branch on who in prophet Muhammed's fellowship's lineage) is destined to rule the world or something like that and the retarded tales are enough,on how Ali died and the fish cried so much for him that the ocean became salty. Like those mega church folk for you guys ig?
Third question about my knowledge,I'm not a sheikh just a computer science student who's father is well versed in religion (not a sheikh) and I personally like to read alot and learn.

>>18436993
my father is also a layman who likes to read, and i like to read as well like you and your dad. so, but he is shia i distance myself from traditional regular shia stuff.. i hope you are open to different religions haha :D
so, what do you think is the true message of jesus, and what are some other crazy hadiths from shia stuff as i was raised traditional regular shia id like to hear that type of things.

>>18436984
It's not meant in the literal sense you say it in anon. Yes,by how you say it ,it does sound like a strawman argument.
But it's because we believe that every single thing prays to/ordered by god,from the sub atomic particles to the galaxy. So it's meant basically as in god makes what he wishes of what he wants and if the change of that animal be one of them and if it fits in his plan then it shall be. Like the common saying goes,god works in mysterious ways. I would be lying if I said some understand it in the literal sense,but I believe that god simply allows his creations to adapt and change and survive.

>>18436998
Sheesh...what type of blue fucking moon coincidence is this? Kek
Well,the true message of all the prophets,from Adam(not really but for simplicities sake) to Muhammad was the unionification of god and to spread the word of god and salvation and to test who shall listen and believe and those who shall be left to hell. And fun fact,the non believer is one thing,but the ones who outright deny Allah despite believing in his existence is another. Basically,satan ,those who practice dark arts(don't say I'm retarded,it's mentioned in the Qur'an as real and without going into the real of pseudo did experience it myself) and the prideful ,such as The People of 'Ad (or Aad).
And honestly I don't dwelve much in shia specifically because the stuff I read gives me an aneurysm sometimes like those jesus loves you people,
But something I just found rn:The Story of the Angel Futrus: This is a famous narration about an angel named Futrus who disobeyed a divine command and had his wings clipped. When Imam Hussain was born, Futrus supposedly rubbed his wings against the newborn's cradle as a sign of seeking intercession; God then restored his wings and forgave him.
Which is bullshit by Sunni Islam standards for the mere fact angels are made without free will unlike djinn/demons and humans and are basically an extension of god. The same way how the story of harut and marut was twisted by Jews to make it as if they were false angels/rejected by god later

>>18437008
that is very new to me, from where do you find stuff like that im not really a complete regular guy who believes in orthodox shiaism but i think with my background i can learn a lot if youve got a good source i need to look into that i ask for that source you got for more of this stuff. so if youre more familiar with the sunni stuff tell me something equally obscure as this futrus story but from sunni stuff. i mean if it is a good one in your opinion and true. also, what do you think who was dhul kifl? i researched it theres a city in iraq called dhul kifl so probably a babylonian prophet? if you got research on that or opinions let me hear please.

>>18437015
He's one of the many prophets that Arent mentioned in much detail/mentioned at all(fun fact,there are tens of prophets mentioned by the fact they were a prophet only and not by name or their stories for the sake to keep the Qur'an pure and simple to what it's supposed to teach or their stories become redundant compared to the others)
And his name isn't really a name like Muhammad or such but a description. "Dhu al-Kifl" literally means "the possessor of a fold" or "the one of the double portion," but it is most commonly interpreted as "the one who gave a covenant."
He's not flushed out but described in the Qur'an in Surah Al-Anbiya (The Prophets) and Surah Sad. The Quran describes him as being one of "the patient" and "the chosen," which is why the majority of scholars classify him as a prophet in the first plac.
his exact identity is not detailed in the Quran,like I said, but many scholars suggest he might be the prophet Ezekiel. Others believe he was the son of the Prophet Ayyub or a successor to Al-Yasa . But like I said, he's simply one of the many prophets not flushed out in the Qur'an/mentioned at all.
So no, nothing really suggests whatever you are talking about .
And my sources are really my own mind,what I read and online broad research
And an obscure but true hadith is The story of the companion Tamim al-Dari and his encounter with the Dajjal (the False Messiah). Where basically tamim was a Christian but respected the prophet and was a friend/part of his fellowship of his and went on a sailor trip and during it the weather became terrible and they decided to take refuge in a nearby island,they found the island had a castle,a weird being welcomed them and inside they met the dajjal who asked them questions and when they escaped they told prophet Muhammad what happened and he told the story and told them that how his description is accurate as the Christian man's!
If you speak Arabic,this vid is tells it very well https://youtu.be/mZ8uPtwTCoo

>>18437042
i already knew that hadith but this part about weird beings is interesting. reminds and gives similar vibes to what they show aliens and secret black goo is in hollywood, like black and weird. i dont believe aliens are demons or that shit but it sounds like these weird beings in your hadith might be related and in connection (who knows) WITH hollywood.. would like to hear your thoughts about that. my source is mainly my mind also but i take hinduism and theravada buddhism into account and seeing different perspectives.

>>18437056
The weird being is heavily suggested to simply be a creation of god to keep an eye on the dajjal until the end of times. My interpretation is basically that it's a "Beast" (Dabbah) Most common interpretation based on the narration from "Sahih Muslim" view Al-Jassasah as a physical animal or creature created for the specific purpose of serving or spying for the Dajjal. And not a devil or djinn or such but tamim Feared of it being a Devil/shaytan In the original story, Tamim al-Dari and his companions were so scared by its appearance and speech that they initially thought it might be a devil (shaytan).
Some obscure scholars think it's supposedly the highest hierarchy for djinn,but nothing supports that claim.
Another story you would probably find interesting is the story of Iram of the Pillars (Arabic: إرَم ذات العماد) ,which is basically the Atlanta of the sands and it's mentioned in the Qur'an too.
A video about it by the youtuber I linked earlier made a vid about it too I think.

>>18437072
alright gotta check it out then i see. i still believe dhuk kifl is related to this dhul kifl in iraq just because the idea grips me of having finally found his city where he preached but whatever. so, i think this being might be underestimated. i think it might be some sort of shaytan in physical form. thats my take. if you have any topic youd like to discuss im out of ideas to be honest.

>>18437091
Same lol. I should be starting to prepare dinner anyways with my mom lol. Been nice talking with you.

>>18437101
thanks likewise