>the symbol for fascism is a literal faggot
>OP image is a literal faggot
>>18438828>the symbol for fascismThe fasces was originally associated with Roman Magistrates, and eventually it became a general symbol for authority used in several countries. American institutions are abundant with fasces symbolism for example. That a bunch of ideologues formed a vanguard and used the fasces as their symbol is not nearly enough to override its larger meaning.
>>18438866Romans were a bunch of faggits too
>>18438866
>>18438828
>>18438828My favorite.https://youtu.be/1rR-wqxRjIg
>>18438866That damn fascist Lincoln!
>>18438884Everyone knows freeing slaves is fascist
>>18438892
This thread convinced me America is the most fascist country in history.
>>18439164And how does that make you feel
>>18438866>>18438884>and eventually it became a general symbol for authorityIt was used as a symbol of unity for a while. You may break a fag, but you can't break a faggot, is what it implied.
>>18438828The word for faggot and the word for fascist have the same origin. Fascists are LITERALLY faggots
The problem isnt even the fascist. Its the female figurehead in the emblem that doesnt belong.
>>18438828The slurs for gay people are so bad. We gave up perfectly good words (gay, faggot, queer) instead of investing in new unique ones like racial slurs (kike, nigger, gook). Linguistic blunder of the century.
>>18439164Fasces were ceremonial bundles of sticks carried by the bodyguards of Consuls to convey consular/pro-consular authority or imperium; essentially some form of localized or general command of the state. America very consciously styled itself off of the Roman republic, at least in terms of aesthetics, so no this particular symbol does not point to America being fascist. In fact almost nothing about America resembles actual fascism, any modern similarities you could point to are at best surface level and at worst wholly dishonest about what fascism actually is.
>>18438878Trump should do this
https://youtu.be/KWCChuR_mhg?si=f7AcGzed1giGBkRgPretty much what fasces mean
>>18439400>You either become a gay porn star or join one of the Guardias
>>18438828>symbol for fascism no
>>18438889liberals really do love their Roman larp don’t they
>>18439854>>You either become a gay porn star or join one of the Guardias'Oh, envy, root of infinite evils and canker of virtues'.
>>18439278That's always what it meant. It's the whole idea of the symbol and is why everyone from Rome, to modern republics, to fascists all used it. Strength through unity is a very appealing message for most ideologies. The power/authority thing was what came later due to its association with lictors. And that association mostly died with Rome.
Where can I read more about lictors? They really fascinate me.
>>18440161Rome predates the concepts you associated the fasces with. Your interpretation, moreover, is engaging in mild presentism to essentially equate symbolic meaning to a vague platitude. In the case of the symbol as it is used by modern republics, it is very intentionally calling back to the Roman meaning of the symbol much more than being an appeal to "strength through unity".
>>18440161It was specifically used as a symbol for unity during the 19th and early 20st century. For the Romans, it simply symbolized the right to administer capital and corporeal punishments.
AI OverviewThe fasces (a bundle of rods, often with an axe) historically symbolized both authority and unity, with its meaning shifting depending on the context and era. It originated in Etruscan and Roman times primarily as a symbol of magisterial authority, but later interpretations, particularly from the Renaissance onward, emphasized it as a symbol of unity. Authority (Ancient Rome)Magisterial Power: In ancient Rome, the fasces was the primary symbol of a magistrate's imperium (legal and executive authority).Coercion and Punishment: The rods represented the power to beat, and the axe symbolized the power to execute, highlighting its role as a tool for enforcing obedience.Hierarchical Status: Carried by lictors, the number of fasces corresponded to the importance of the official, with consuls having 12 and dictators 24. Unity (Renaissance and Modern Use)Strength in Unity: Beginning in the 16th century, the symbol became linked to a fable of a bundle of sticks, representing that individual elements are weak, but unified they are unbreakable.Republican Ideals: During the French and American revolutions, it was adopted to represent strength, justice, and the unity of the state (e.g., E Pluribus Unum).Lincoln Memorial: It appears on the Lincoln Memorial to symbolize the unity of the states and the strength of the UnionAmbivalenceFascism: Benito Mussolini adopted the symbol for the Italian National Fascist Party in the 20th century, merging the two concepts to represent "unity through strength" under authoritarian rule.Modern Context: Despite its association with 20th-century fascism, the fasces remains in use as a symbol of governance and justice in many democratic contexts, such as the U.S. House of Representatives and the French national seal.In summary, the fasces is an ambivalent symbol that signified raw, authoritarian power to the Romans, while modern democracies often adopt it to represent collective strength and national unity.
>>18440228>>18440253>Romans started using bundles of sticks as a symbol randomly and for no reasonThe symbolism of an extremely durable thing being made up of many small and easy to break things is blatantly apparent to anyone and everyone. And it is the only reason to ever make a guy carry around an unusably oversized ceremonial axe.
>>18440280It likely had meaning that was much deeper than that which is now lost to us as much of their ceremonial and religious traditions are.
>>18440280>unusably oversized ceremonial axe.It served a hybrid between a club and an axe. The sticks used for beatings and the axe for executions.
>>18440287You can beat people to death with a regular axe handle. The Roman military implement for corporal punishment was a regular, single stick.>>18440285Or it was the very straightforward and obvious symbolism. This wasn't part of some mystery religion. It was a public government symbol to be seen and understood by all people.
>>18440303It would have been understood by most if not all people 2000 years ago, as they lived and practiced the civic religion of the Roman republic.
>>18440317Why do you insist it must have originated from something else when you don't have any evidence for it? Someone getting the idea to represent a state's authority and legitimate use of force with a faggot that symbolizes the people that make up that state and give it its power makes perfect sense. It even makes sense in a monarchy since a kingdom's strength still relies on its subjects.
>>18440322Rome has a rich cultural history spanning millennia, meaning that many of their symbols would have changed meaning over this time, and enduring symbols like the fasces were almost certainly not one dimensional. Maybe there was a ceremony that Roman officials carried out each time they crossed the pomerium that the fasces played a key role in, and we simply do not know about it because it did not survive. This exact hypothetical can be played out in many different ways and it often is better to err on the side of "we do not know" then to offer an explanation of the symbol that makes sense to us now.
>>18440333>that makes sense to us nowBut it made sense to them too. Because it is a physical attribute of the object in question. We don't have to speculate why they associated lightning with the ruler of the universe. It's the most powerful and awe inspiring natural phenomenon that a person is likely to ever personally see, even now. Nor do we have to question where the idea of a cosmic egg comes from in the cultures where it was present. Something hatching from an egg is one of the most obvious visual representations of birth. The fact that some symbols can get separated from anything obvious doesn't mean all or even most symbols are like that.
>>18440347>It's the most powerful and awe inspiring natural phenomenon that a person is likely to ever personally see, even nowDepends where you are. Volcanism is definitely more powerful, it even generates its own lightning
>>18440347I can think of several uses and symbolic meanings for a bundle of sticks and an axe other than just indicating unified strength. Almost immediately making a fire comes to mind, pair that with the eternal fire of Rome and the importance of the cult of Vesta and all of a sudden we have a potential new hypothetical explanation for the symbolic significance of the Fasces. Each year's Consuls would also hold fasces on a month-to-month basis, indicating that they had a sort of temporary seniority over the other consul to push through policies. In this sense holding fasces conveyed the authority of the state, which was the first explanation I offered and one which we have the most evidence for it actually representing.
>>18440351A volcano dribbling out lava isn't as impressive as lightning. Only actual eruptions are more powerful. And most people will never see their local volcano do one of those.>>18440354No one is disputing its representation of state power. But no one just randomly grabs a bundle of sticks and declares it a symbol of authority. There is a step missing. A step logically filled by the bundle being used to represent the strength of a group of people working towards a common goal, as one does in a state.The torch idea isn't totally implausible. But the lack of retention of any torch bearing features associated with lictors despite torchbearers themselves being a common role in religious and civic rituals and Rome itself having a sacred fire makes it less likely. It's harder for an element like that to atrophy or be forgotten when it's being reinforced by the rest of the culture around it.
>>18440370I think the idea it conveyed unified strength is a potential explanation, but the justification for it necessarily meaning that is fuzzy. I don't doubt that this was an element of the symbolic meaning at certain times, but boiling it down to just that is a bit myopic.
>>18440216The new sun by gene wolfe
