Yes, even the misandric “kill all men/this is why we choose the bear” type of radfem is pro-male in a way. At worst they just don’t want to center themselves to men, and that’s fine. Not a single case of a feminist who harmed a man for being a man aside from abusive rapist scums.Feminists acknowledge men are more capable than just violence and aggression. They value self-improvement and personal accountability. They reject toxic masculinity norms that the patriarchy enforced, such as forced drafts and not being allowed to be emotionally vulnerable. This is unlike those “tradwives” who use men as nothing more than wallets and bodyguard.
>>18439411also male survivors of abuse and rape, it’s always men who make fun of them or go all “nice wish that were me”feminists do more to advocate for male survivorsthey just prioritize women because they are far more likely to be harmed
>>18439411sounds like you need a good raping
>>18439411Because you're actually wrong, it doesn't help me. It rests on the assumption there's no innate differences between men and women and that men and women are equal in ability when thats demonstrably false.
>>18439420*men not meFreudian slip
>>18439412A lot of that just boils down to the fact men desire sex more and get it less. Which in a just world that wouldn't happen. Taking dick and fulfilling your biological imperative shouldn't be a matter of twisting one's arm to do so.
>>18439411Why do women need a seperate chess league?
>>18439411Anti-feminist societies are more sustainable. Islamic theocracies have existed for 1000+ years and will exist for many millennia more, the post-1960s feminist West is on its last legs and it hasn’t even been 100 years. Feminists need to prove their worldview can work in the long term
It's because the gender rights, and dating discourse debate is a battle run by two groups of lolcows fighting each other.
>>18439432Yeah but some of their rules literally don't make sense other than "it prevents my feelings from being hurt" same with literally any other belief system including atheism.>but its not a belief system!Mere semantics. Power abhors a vacuum, etc
>>18439440>let me tell you about which rules are importantyou have no idea what you're talking about. fortunately your ideology doesn't reproduce
>>18439411I hate this because this is actually partially right. Tradwives are useless and women sharing the workload was the historical norm and it was done both out of necessity and out of valuing the man. The biggest issue with feminism is that it told women to worship themselves.
>>18439411post tits or ywnbaw
>>18439470the only difference between a feminist and a tradwife is that the tradwife will suck your dick on command and the feminist will call you a rapist if you ever want sexboth are useless parasites but at least one will give you pussy
>>18439452>you have no idea what you're talking about. fortunately your ideology doesn't reproduceNot a liberal and your statement reeks of irony
>>18439432>Anti-feminist societies are more sustainable. Islamic theocraciesare all shitholes that constantly collapse into civil wars over minute religious differences or just tinpot dictators machine gunning their own people to stay in power as Iran did just a few months ago.
>>18439411There's a lot of feminists that simply hate men and want to see them suffer. Also, feminists have infiltrated media and made it very less enjoyable. I want equality, not equity.
>>18439627the “feminists” who made those movies are cishet white men who promoted the “onlyfans girlboss” and disguised it as “feminism”actual feminists like hayao miyazaki and kurt cobain made amazing art
>>18439530The feminist gives me money and still wants dick while the tradwife only expends my money.
>>18439638In what possible universe do you live in?
>>18439627I actually don't want equality. I want to own a woman like a chattel slave. No diggity no doubt.
>>18439411>toxic masculinity norms that the patriarchy enforced, such as not being allowed to be emotionally vulnerableThis isn't a thing and I'm not sure why feminists keep pushing this line
>>18439411I am so glad the races embracing these vile lies will cease to exist. God's wrath will be forcing us all to incarnate into African and Indian bodies for the rest of time.
>>18439687keep your personal fetishes to yourself, sicko.
>>18439696Haha we're all gonna be niggers and poopjeets
>>18439411>Feminists acknowledge men are more capable than just violence and aggression. They value self-improvement and personal accountability. They reject toxic masculinity norms that the patriarchy enforced, such as forced drafts and not being allowed to be emotionally vulnerableI have never seen an example of this in real life.
>>18439632>actual feminists>men
>>18439411Misandry isn't real though.Because of power dynamics.
>>18439411>feminist are better because they expect everything that the tradwives expect AND expect moreWhat a great ideology.
>>18439411>women who aren't feminists are pick me'sWhat a misogynistic view.
>>18439700meds
>>18439721We won't be medjeets unfortunately
>>18439711power dynamics are a social construct. nothing is actually real, its all made up.
>>18439724>*rapes u*That wasn't real.
>>18439650Most feminists are just women who want dick. If they have a job then they can pay for their own things and will even find paying for them insulting. If you're really lucky they'll pay for your meal.
>>18439411don't give a fuck about what feminism says,it's your fellow man that u need to watch.Simps who back up women & their bullshit,thru coercion or force or bullying. That is the problem here.
>>18439622Their societies are stable, have replacement level or above birthrates, and frankly the people seem to be happier (you’ll never find a Saudi or Qatari woman stressed/unhappy about life, compared to high rates of depression in Western women). Meanwhile societies which have made feminism one of their key values (Europe, America) have terminally low birthrates, miserable people, etc.
>>18439411>They value self-improvement and personal accountability. They reject toxic masculinity norms that the patriarchy enforced, such as forced drafts and not being allowed to be emotionally vulnerable. Yet they still can't help but fall in love with emotinonally unavailable abusers.>such as forced draftsLol. Fucking lmao. Feminism as a movement has been entirely co-opted by Marxists and they will draft anyone the second the revolution under threat.After all "he who does not work does not eat."
>>18439744Why are you citing the Bible?
>>18439747Lenin, actually.
>>18439411Because men seek to control women, and the point of having a tradwife is to control her. You can't do that with a feminist, so men don't like feminists (some will lie and pretend to be male feminists though)
>>18439753No, Paul.
>>18439411Yet they still absolutely refuse to call themselves egalitarians.
This is the same rhetoric as class consciousness. Which is just "the commoners are too stupid to rule themselves" with extra steps.
>>18439743western civilization needs liberalism and feminism because it’s inherently flawed and sexist, so it must change every weeknobody is satisfied with their livesislam is perfectwhy fix what ain’t broke
its true the tradwives dont actually submit to you and they demand shit but feminism demands a lot too im single for life for a reason man. just kidding goddess forbids me from having sex thats the reason.
>>18439725good luck, I duct taped my crack>>18439759whats wrong with controlling women?
>>18439799in what possible universe?
>>18439704I have, many times. All of my friends (including all my female friends) believe this. Do you retards just not talk to people?
>>18439743Only Morrocco, Algeria, Jordan, Egypt, Oman, and Kuwait manage to have replacement level birthrates without being wartorn disaster zones. Aside from them Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Gaza and the West Bank are the only other MENA countries with replacement level birth rates. The remaining MENA countries all have below replacement level birthrates.
>>18439845Anon...Are you finally realising the reason people on 4chan hate feminists is because they actually don't know any women??
Women (feminists included) find traits that they are railing against attractive and keep falling for men who exhibit those traits.So I don't really care what they say.Feminism is just their way of filtering men who are dumb enough to fall for it.All subconscious of course.
>>18439999I know, it's hilarious. What's better is getting them to admit they're retarded, and telling them how much they love being mistreated. It's hot, honestly. Women find their peace through bad men because they crave annihilation of the self.
>>18439845>source: trust me bro
>>18439420this unironically everything boils down to it
>>18439711So according to your logic, saying, "kill all men," is okay. Or if it's not okay, then it just makes the sexism label pointless.
Why are you replying to this obvious bait thread?
>>18439411If you ask 100 different people what feminism means you'll probably get 100 different answers, but in general feminism will concern itself more with female emancipation and empowerment more than it ever will with men's issues. Even if you personally don't think that's the case that will still be the perception of feminism in the eyes of most men, even men who aren't directly opposed to it, they just don't see any place for them in the movement and thus no reason to partake. There are also other issues but I think primarily is because feminism is viewed as a movement for women and even though some men aren't ideologically opposed to it they don't believe in what's being promised. Feminists might say that men need to cry and talk more about their feelings but you'll find no shortage of men who say that when they do the reactions they get actively discourage that kind of behavior (e.g their problems being completely ignored, confessed insecurities are brought up later as ammunition during arguments, women outright becoming uncomfortable or losing attraction to their partner after they see them cry) so the promised fruits feminism is supposed to bring to men as well don't seem to match their lived experiences.
>>18439411Feminists will almost always choose a man who is assertive, stoic, strong, and wealthy over a man who is none of the above. All this talk of toxic masculinity and equal pay flies out the window when it comes to their own personal life. And obviously this mismatch does immensely harm men as the reality of feminism have made men alot less attractive without lowering female expectations.That being said, there is nothing traditional about modern "tradwives", i.e. a wife who can just lazy around for most of the day, and it is in any case completely unaffordable for the vast majority of men if you want to maintain a western lifestyle. Women should work, but they should only work part time, atleast while they have young kids.
>>18439743Anon, unhappy Iranian women brought about mass protests that almost overthrew their retarded theocracy.
How interesting, you want to "share the weight of the world" with men, but all you listed was demands?
>>18440366Which is interesting considering Iranian women study hand have more higher degrees than men in their country.
>>18440391Khamenei was a huge feminist and it fucked up the birth rate of Iran to an abyssmal level.
>>18439411I like the idea of feminism in concept but in practice women overwhelmingly still hold the men they claim are the issue to higher regard on the sexual totem pole as well as the status one.There is a reason for this
>>18439411feminism is a left-wing revolutionary ideology that wants to abolish borders and invite in billions of third world rape orcs
>>18439743Why do people like to equate birthrates to a given overarching theological framework?Don't you think people in the west may be more depressed because their "riches" fund foreign and illegal wars for Israel? Or maybe that their "perfect" American lives are merely lives of overindulgence and slop with no self actualization?Naaahh you're right its all religionjesus christ this site really is just 14 year old incels now isnt it
>>18440424It's funny how we all know the world is run by different Abrahamic religions trying to end the world to bring forth their messiah and somehow the issue is people aren't religious enough.
>>18440310this
>>18440424>jesus christ this site really is just 14 year old incels now isnt it34 year old incels actually.
>>18439411>pro-male in a way.I'll help feminists when they start sucking my dick
>>18440427I think to an extent the masses (at least in the west, I cant speak for everywhere else) are upset that the things promised to them in youth will potentially never actualize. I.E. Work hard and you will get cookie cut picket fence overindulged lyphe or the same but the religious slop one where you breed way more and go to church every week.Everyone is pissed because the leaders of our world would rather go down with the ship that is their legacy and bring us all down with it rather than set up the future for good things. Its a tale as old as time im afraid. They are the issue and we instead fight in this stupid culture war of white v black, men v women, queer v hetero, etc and take out all our aggression on one another when none of us are actually the problem.TL:DR, women, suck the guys cock without a bunch of mind games, men, let women be free to choose their life, straights, fuck a butt its not that bad, gays, nobody cares but religious zealots so go be gay, whites and blacks, hold the obvious shithead figureheads in your communities more accountable. I mean, is any of this that fucking unreasonable???!!!??!!!!1one!!!!11!!eleven??!!
>>18439411Men will do whatever the hell women want in exchange for their consent. Those are the rules, those have always been the rules, and they always will be the rules, no matter how much bullshit feminists throw at the fan.
>>18440424>Or maybe that their "perfect" American lives are merely lives of overindulgence and slop with no self actualization?You’re literally making my point for me, patriarchal fundamentalist societies like Saudi Arabia don’t have these issues.
If anything it hurts men more, what's the point of men if women can do everything?This is why that "we just want to be equal"is a scam.
>>18439731>Most feminists are just women who want dick.Most feminists don't know why or how they're feminists, they're just trend followers>If they have a job then they can pay for their own thingsThey won't >and will even find paying for them insulting.And they'll also be insulted if you don't >If you're really lucky they'll pay for your meal.No, they won't.
>>18440448What about the fact that they are propped up by the economic exchange of countries (US for ex) that are as you say, are devoid or losing sight of these themes? Does that have anything to do with it? lol, lmao evenOr maybe that the unhappiness in the west could be solved by maybe reinvesting into its people (again mostly referring to the US here) rather than investing hundreds of billions annually in middle eastern "allies?" (no return on investment yet btw)Have you taken a dialectical approach to any of this? Or just a religious fanatical one that only exists because you cant have sex in the most booming age of what you'd probably agree is one of promiscuity? Come on bro lol.
>>18440456If your claim that this gap is a result of geopolitics is true, then how do you explain internal differences in the US and Europe in terms of life satisfaction? Patriarchal subcultures (Muslim immigrants, Ultra-Orthodox Jews, whatever remnants of strict Christianity remaining,etc.) have higher birthrates and better life outcomes than the liberal/feminist mainstream.>inb4 “why do birthrates even matter”If your society cannot even perpetuate itself it is inherently flawed. Again, say what you will about Saudi Arabia but its vision of society will exist in 1000 years. Unless something changes its Western counterpart will not. Feminists need to prove their vision can even work.
>>18440454>Most feminists don't know why or how they're feministsThey do know; they think it's in their self-interest as women. Some may try to cope that it is somehow in the interest of everyone, the way OP does, but ultimately feminism is all about making things better for women at the expense of men.
>>18440217"Kill all men" is fine because it's like being scratched by a kitten.
>>18440474I mean birthrates declining in relation to the FACT that the global population still grows faster than it decreases makes your point moot from the get go lol. In your pseudo intellectual theological rant did you again fail to realize the investment made into the poor working class of these places?doubt
>>18440443Feminists suck my dick. Maybe you’re just unattractive?
>>18440551No such thing as "unattractive". That's incel rhetoric.
>>18439411>Not a single case of a feminist who harmed a man for being a man aside from abusive rapist scums.Putting aside the fact that this is objectively true the chief reason i oppose feminism is because it fails to adhere to its own professed goal of equality.It's always trite to say at this late date given how the argument was beaten to death in the early 2000s but i never in my life met a woman (let alone a feminist) who was willing to hold herself to the same standard as a man.They are not willing to adhere to the NAP,They are not willing to show loyalty in equal measure to those who show loyalty to themThey are not willing to do unto others as they would have done unto them, and all of this demonstrates (regardless of if myself would wish it otherwise or not) then women truly at the end of the day ARE NOT equal to men; nor do they want to be.They are different and they will always will be different.They will never take full responsibility for their actions, they will never admit they were fully in the wrong, they will never have the emotional strength and intellectual honesty to devote themselves fully to another human being as a man can.And to be clear very, VERY few men can live up to this either.But it's possible for men and impossible for men and its better to just accept that then pretend otherwise.>inb4 "F-f-FAGGOT!"Life would be easier if i was gay but no.I just accept women for what they are.It's not worth being resentful about, its like blaming a starving dog for eatings its owner corpse after a week locked in the same house; it's in the nature of women to be what they are but please dont ask me to pretend its otherwise for the sake of your ego.
>>18440551Pick mes more like.
>>18439411>pseud babble that changes the definition of “tradwife” to gold digging slut Foid dishonesty
>>18440557Are you retarded or did I just fall for bait
>>18439412Not really, a lot of them will subtly downplay male rape victims by implying that their struggles are not ‘equal’ or whatever
>>18440035I just described an incredibly mundane, ordinary experience that any human with a healthy social life can relate to, and you were so flabbergasted that you think I'm lying. For your own sake, please go outside and make some friends (not on discord). >>18439922True.
>>18439412because it's sissy shit invented on social media, not real lifeimagine telling an avg guy not even 20 years ago that a woman "abused" you, everyone would die of laughtermany women try and force a false equivalence to reduce their inferiority complex over having a sexual form that gives them no autonomy at all
>>18439411It's gynocentric and doesn't offer men anything.>Not a single case of a feminist who harmed a man for being a man aside from abusive rapist scums.Andy Warhol's crime was not producing Ms. Solana's shitty plays. >Feminists acknowledge men are more capable than just violence and aggression.They do not consider this a good thing, obviously.> They value self-improvement and personal accountability. In real terms this is asking men to give up basically everything they are or have, and submit themselves to endless struggle sessions for little benefit to themselves, while giving not even the sketch of an alternative. It doesn't help that many men already feel currently powerless, dispossesed, etc. So getting lectured about privileges they had no idea they had while being actively miserable is not very welcome.>They reject toxic masculinity norms that the patriarchy enforced, such as forced drafts and not being allowed to be emotionally vulnerable.In practice feminist movements, being Gynocentric, do not care about these issues, and as far as emotional openess go. Women will talk all that shit then get "the ick" when you actually do it.
>>18440638Only an incel would bring up unattractiveness. Everybody knows physical appearance has nothing to with it.
>>18440643Women are also repulsed by male rape victims due to the perception of them being "weak".Meanwhile they keep falling for male rapists.
>>18439411"tradwives" are feminists as well, thats why they are bad. Besides that, all forms of feminism is bad. Feminists have never fought to improve mens lives, but they have fought to make it worse. From making things worse for men in family courts to getting games targeted at men banned from stores. In the UK they even got rape laws to change so that only penetration counts as rape which means that in the UK a woman cant rape a man (unless she uses an object to penetrate the man).
>>18440741Reading "Right Wing Women" is very funny nowadays. Ah Dworkers, shilling for Political Lesbianism you.
>>18439622better than hiding away and being fearful of the cops while corporations continue to ass-rape you, pussy.
>>18439845I've encountered such women before too but I don't think they're the norm at all. I've encountered much more that simply implicitly view feminism as a way to boost their own power basically.As an aside, whenever you see anyone mainstream talk about mens issues they have to predicate it with either how women have it worse or how it effects women too (because the men they interact with are worse off). To me this says feminism is simply about valuing women more then men.
>>18440456>What about the fact that they are propped up by the economic exchange of countries (US for ex) that are as you say, are devoid or losing sight of these themes?You're mistaking a shift in power dynamics brought about by the petrodollar as dependence.>Or maybe that the unhappiness in the west could be solved by maybe reinvesting into its people (again mostly referring to the US here)Economic instability is symptomatic of the decline in cultural and human affairs within the West, not the reverse.
In theory feminism was supposed to bring equality to the sexes and free the from rigid social norms, but in practice it failed especially in modern times. For example as one Anon said man expressing their emotions, if a guy shows sadness or insecurity it just gives ammo that will be used against him in future fights, if he expressed anger he could be considered an abusers by some part of the feminist movement. While I'm mentioning abuse a good thing feminist did is give woman a way to escape abusive husband, they didn't provide a decent male role model for her or the kids is she had any. Modern feminists also ignore abuse the woman do on their husbands or male relatives, or female on female abuse. They also water down the term abuse, at least the modern day ones, for example we all agree that hitting a woman is abuse, but what if she attack you, are you allowed to restraint her, causing emotional harm can be abuse, but are a few bad word during an argument really abuse? This watering down makes it harder for descent man to court woman, while the abusive guys just don't care and thus in turn it might ever rise the rates of abuse. Feminist say how woman weren't allowed to work, which is somewhat true, but they don't mention that most jobs we physically demanding and woman just can't perform them, woman did work on farms, factories, producing clothes. They also say how they also freed sexes from social norms, but they throw out the baby with the bath water while never thinking why did the social norms exist in the first place. For example man should be more assertive, dominant, more motivated, all if these nirm exist because woman find that attractive, while the nirm that woman are more reserve, kind, loyal, are norms that exist because man find them attractive. cont in next post.
>>18441017The example of this is Nora Vincent, a feminist that acted out being a man for year or so, if you can look her up on YouTube, she quoted how she expected that the ideal man to act like a woman but in practice it failed. Another reason they failed in social norms part is because they didn't have a replacement for them that works, if man show more emotions, woman find them less attractive, if a woman is more open with sex, she might get some but she will have trouble finding a desirable long term partner, another example is when a woman starts to make more money it's socially acceptable for her to leave her partner, but not the other way around, now leaving your partner because of you make more money is scummy and you shouldn't do it. Last point I can think of is the political power, they will say who man hold all the power, while ignoring that on average more woman vote, and in most countries man are both forced and expected to go into army, while woman aren't.
>>18439411The type of feminism that isn't openly anti-male "helps" men by telling them that it's ok to be a weak loser, and that they shouldn't put their value as a person in getting women or being successful. Basically trying to get gen Z men to accept getting no women and being actively being discriminated against in every area of life from education to the job market, not to mention the western social norms that more subtely favor women (the few feminists that don't do this will blame it on men or the patriarchy instead).If you actually try to propose sollutions to the problems men have in the west today however feminists will at best pay lip-service to the ideas and will more likely call you a misogynist, and if you question the gynocentric rules and regulations of the modern world they'll reveal their true colors.
>be Margaret Thatcher>go to Oxford university>in the 1940s>be a scientist>in the 1950s>become an MP>in the 1960s>become Prime Minister>in the 1970sOver 20 years before 2001, and she did all this while being a chaste christian tradwife. She would go on to say>I never needed women's libwhich she caught flak for since feminists imagine they are the sole warriors of social justice in favor of women's rights, but she was referring to men like her father who were liberal individualists, believed women were as intelligent as men and could be taught to share the same values which make their lives happy and meaningful, which she was at least. It was men like this who made it possible not suffragettes throwing themselves in front of horses."""Feminism""" was meaningless in 2001. Feminists will say "uh.. feminism is about equal rights, so ackchually her father was a feminist like us he just didn't know it". Well, anyone can say "I believe in goodness and righteousness and free milk", but in practice it is profoundly naive and the milk will often turn out to be some watered down grey swill the schoolchildren refuse to drink. Women say they are strong intelligent powerful and can take on any responsibility, yet to do this they need to adopt Margaret Thatcher's belief system and what might be considered "extreme far-right" beliefs to combat degeneracy in the modern world. They lack the heart and the gumption, instead of Thatcher we get Liz Truss.
>>18441087She didn't though. She would have been just as happy being a stay at home mother. That's what made her different as a PM. She wasn't a retarded self-destructive feminist.
>>18439411>>18439411Because gender conventions are akin to a form of implicit social contract. In essence, a man accepts to act like a man because, beyond the social conditionning, there is a social understanding that he will get XYZ if he acts a certain way. Similarly, women are also abided to a social contract with its own clause and morality. This is why you have a gender division : the man accepts to be the one to bring the food home and the woman accepts to be the one who cooks. It's a basic contract founded on biology and cultural norms. This is also why you get different moral responses based on similar acts performed by both genders. For instance, because it's expected of women to be courted by men, they are the one to be called "whores" if they sleep around. A man on the other hand won't suffer from the same prejudice, because sleeping around with many women will only show that he is good at courting them.As >>18440310 has very well said, feminism in general is much more about liberating women from a social contract that feels unfair to them rather than promoting gender equality. Most men are still expected to be the caretaker of the family, to be the one to financially support women, to be the one to emotionally support them even in the most feminist households. Most men simply don't really get anything out of women relinquishing their social contracts. This is also partly why incels are so much anti-feminists rather than pro-fem, as they understand that feminism will only hinder even more their chances at dating rather than "liberate" sex. The whole "looksmaxxing", "redpill" etc movement is precisely an answer to this social contract being broken, with men also abandonning their own social contract to simply maximize their personal satisfaction, at the expense of a collective understanding that this will produce social strife. >>18440567>to the NAPWhy are libertarians always the most insufferable people to exist ?
>>18441022>The example of this is Nora Vincent, a feminist that acted out being a man for year or soShe wrote a book called Self Made Man and did her thing years before the current wave of ftm trans men. She expected to be swaggering down the streets of New York like some gigachad and instead found out that life as a slightly built unattractive male sucks. A few years ago she acked themself.
Early second wave feminism “helped” men in that there were millions of cool hippie chix willing to have casual sex with even the biggest losers, thanks to the pill, abortion and lack of social consequences. It was the only time in history where men who didn’t want to fight in a war were rewarded with sex and enhanced social status. No wonder all these old boomer males still call themselves “feminists”.
>>18441133being a wife and mother brought her happiness and being a scientist, MP and PM brought her extra happiness
>>18441175>feminism in general is much more about liberating women from a social contract that feels unfair to themAnd replace it with what? What drives me up the wall is that feminism is all about liberating women from all their obligations and letting them live indulgent lives. No society can last with half its population checked out. Is there any feminist who acknowledges/wrote about what women owe society, what they have an obligation to do? If they are saying “the current demands society makes of women are too much/are unjust/etc.”, fine. But then what do you think is fair for men or society at large to ask of women?
