Unbelievers who respect Christianity for its morals still go to hell

>>18440006
All of the shit in the Bible is possible. That's not the problem. The problem is it didn't happen. And even if the big one, the resurrection, happened, it still wouldn't prove that the God of the Bible was going to raise the rest of us from the dead. You will always need faith.

>>18440006
Which morals?
The requirement of human sacrifice to atone for nonsensical sins committed by people who never existed?

>>18440006
Christian morals include "it is good for anon to suffer eternal conscious torment because he doesn't subscribe to the proposition 'Christianity's supernatural claims are true'".

>>18440015
It is good for the wicked to suffer justice for their sins

>>18440020
Distinction without a difference when the precondition for justification is believing in the Christian supernatural claims.

>>18440034
You are in error 1. The cause of condemnation is not absence of faith in Christ, but the presence of sins. To reject Christ is indeed sinful, but those who never heard of Him are not culpable of it, yet they are still condemned for their sins 2. Faith in Christ is not mere mental assent

>>18440048
Oh. So works DO save.

>>18440049
The works of Jesus, yes.

>>18440052
So then my faith in Jesus is what alone saves me. Which means I don't have to do anything. Which means mental assent is in fact what faith is.

>>18440055
Faith being the only cause of justification does not imply faith is mental assent. Saving faith consists of three parts, notitia, assensus, and fiducia. If it is only assent, even the devils believe, and tremble. But faith is an abiding trust in the promises of God, whereby the sinner rests in and receives the righteousness of Jesus, his only hope before God. And yet also not of himself, since believing the promise of forgiveness in Christ is only an instrument created in his heart by the Holy Spirit to effect God’s decree of election in his life, and not a work of his own free will. Again, his own faith is not itself the ground of justification, but only an instrument by which he apprehends the righteousness of Christ which is the only ground of his justification.

>>18440061
Those words are not in the Bible, so now you're just making stuff up. Jesus makes it pretty simple.
Believe in God. Do good deeds. Go to heaven.

>>18440064
Neither is your post, the difference is that the meaning of mine is in the bible.

>>18440067
No, yours are the doctrines of men.
>Believe in God
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
>Do good deeds
As Jesus was starting out on his way to Jerusalem, a man came running up to him, knelt down, and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. You must not cheat anyone. Honor your father and mother.
>Go to heaven
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

>>18440070
Luke 18:9-14

>>18440006
Its morals are shit too. The only parts of it that aren't objectionable are things it shares with almost every other religion and philosophy.

>>18440073
Nice try, but you’re misreading the text. The Publican is justified because of his repentance, not because he had 'mental assent' to a Pauline theory.

To repent means to turn away from sin and toward the Torah. If there is no Torah to follow, there is no sin to repent of. The Publican went home justified so that he could finally go and keep the commandments properly, unlike the Pharisee who did not actually love God.

You're basically arguing that Jesus gives people a license to be scumbags as long as they 'feel' sorry. That's the 'doctrine of men' I was talking about. Jesus says 'Go and sin no more.' He doesn't say 'Go and sin as much as you want because I've got you covered with a legal loophole.

Imagine thinking a guy who had a hallucination on the road to Damascus knows more than the Apostles who actually ate dinner with the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 15 proves the Law was the baseline. Even your 'hero' Paul had to bow to James and the elders. You're following a Pharisee who rebranded the faith because he couldn't handle the actual requirements of the Kingdom of Heaven. Cope and seethe

>>18440048
It's still a distinction without a difference.

>>18440076
>The Publican is justified because of his repentance, not because he had 'mental assent' to a Pauline theory.
Again, this is a strawman
>The Publican went home justified
Having done no good works, only believing in God’s mercy. And this parable is explicitly said to be against those who think to be righteous in themselves, such as the heresy you preach (though I suspect you are the same atheist now trolling) instead of seeking mercy from God.
>You're basically arguing that Jesus gives people a license to be scumbags as long as they 'feel' sorry
The question is what mercy can those who are scumbags like you expect apart from Christ? All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, do you think you are perfect? But you are required to keep the whole law. Therefore the scripture presents two ways to be saved: through the law, wherein you are certainly damned, having already failed the demands of the law, or through the gospel, wherein none will suffer condemnation since Christ satisfied the demands of the law in their place.
>Jesus says 'Go and sin no more.' He doesn't say 'Go and sin as much as you want
Which is a completely obscene strawman. Utterly contrary to every word our divines teach. Rom. 3:31 “Do we then abolish the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.”
>hallucination
The men who were with him saw the light and heard the voice, because it was a real appearance of the resurrected Jesus.

>>18440048
And to elaborate, imagine you've got a judge who has access to an accurate lie detector. This judge sentences all guilty people as any other judge would, but before passing the sentence, he hooks up the defendant to the lie detector and asks him if he believes Merlin did real supernatural magic. If the defendant answers "yes" and the lie detector signals that he's telling the truth, the judge lets the defendant go. If he answers "yes" and the lie detector signals he's lying (or if he answers "no" and the lie detector says he's telling the truth), the judge passes he sentence as any other judge would.
This is Christianity.

Anyone who thinks Paul teaches "mental assent to doctrine = salvation" needs to read Romans 2:6-11, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and Galatians 6:7-9.

>>18440084
It's not a strawman, you just have a wicked heart and your dishonest tongue bears witness to it. No, Jesus says the Publican was justified specifically because he wanted help from God to be holy. Not because he kept on sinning and "having faith". No, the parents of Zechariah were said to be sinless, and that's just one example. They kept the Torah perfectly. You and your teacher Paul have been marked by Christ with your unholy works so as to show to the righteous that God does not stand with false prophets. Jesus forgives so that people might better learn to obey God, and he says this about God saving the penitent sinner.
>I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
That story about the light is utterly contradictory and every time Paul says it he gets the details wrong. He's a wicked liar and Jesus himself has rejected him. He is damned and you will be if you continue on his path.
>“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
>And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And then Paul says
>You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.
Jesus blesses the Church in Ephesus (Asia) for expelling him
>I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

>>18440093
My mistake, Zechariah and Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist, was sinless.
>In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.

>>18440093
>>18440097
To continue. The Publican was a Jew, at the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, bound to the Torah, the Law of Moses, in a covenant. When he asked God for mercy he did it because he knew he transgressed against the Law. God justified him because he wanted to follow it. He knew he failed, and God foreknew that he would turn from his evil ways.
Jesus makes it clear.
>For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
>Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the LEAST of these commands and TEACHES others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
If you do not repent and do as the Lord Jesus commands, God will destroy you body and soul in Gehenna.

>>18440006
>I respect Christianity for it's morals
Such as?

Morals are a consequence of the mystical aspect, otherwise you end up with religion.

Think of it like John and the essenes vs the pharisees vs saducees

They all claimed to believe in god but their ways were different

Theres a reason jesus healed the leper abd then sent him to the temple to pay what moses was forced to order; it's a way of saying that they're not needed

>>18440064
>Jesus makes it pretty simple.
>Believe in God. Do good deeds. Go to heaven.
Where does he say that?

>>18440093
>It's not a strawman, you just have a wicked heart and your dishonest tongue bears witness to it
You freely bear false witness against me and the apostles of the Lord Jesus because the Spirit is not in you. You are still in your sins, and you are a servant of the evil one.
>No, Jesus says the Publican was justified specifically because he wanted help from God to be holy.
It is not in the text, where did you read or dream this?
>No, the parents of Zechariah were said to be sinless, and that's just one example. They kept the Torah perfectly
They did not, as no man has or can, as is the explicit testimony of scripture from Genesis to Revelation. If you think you have kept the law perfectly, if you believe you are without sin, it is only a strong delusion that you will believe a lie. 1 John 1:8
>Jesus forgives
How does He forgive those who have no sin?
>That story about the light is utterly contradictory and every time Paul says it he gets the details wrong.
That is also false.
>He is damned and you will be if you continue on his path.
I tell you that everyone is damned apart from this path.
>Jesus blesses the Church in Ephesus (Asia) for expelling him
The Revelation was written several decades after the death of Paul, so the referent cannot be Paul. But I ask, if Paul was a false apostle, why did not the apostles know it? We read only that he was accepted by the apostles, we see the others teaching his doctrine, indeed the council of Jerusalem approved him and not his enemies. You are a follower of a man-made religion, you have decided for yourself who is and is not an apostle and what is and is not scripture, your only god is your belly.
>>18440097
Scripture is not to be set against scripture, their deeds were blameless only because their blots were overlooked in Christ and their works were accepted in Christ.

>>18440098
You continue to tell lies about our doctrine, because you are a child of your father the devil. The impenitent cannot be saved, and so you who are impenitent cannot be saved. But God will not accept any unclean thing to enter His presence, it does not matter if you “repent” and plead for mercy outside of Christ you will be righteously damned, for there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved and no man comes to the Father except by Him.

>>18440092
In fact they can just read all of his letters. The idea of mental assent = salvation only comes from endlessly repeating a few specific cherrypicked verses like Ephesians 2:8-9, interpreting them in a specific way, and then making everything else Paul ever said conform to their interpretation of that small bit of text no matter how far the meaning has to be stretched everywhere else.

>>18440103
>You freely bear false witness against me and the apostles of the Lord Jesus because the Spirit is not in you. You are still in your sins, and you are a servant of the evil one.
Nta but it's funny when Christincels really get into it and start talking like they're engaging in live action roleplay.
You really are no different than nerds running around a forest whacking each other with styrofoam swords lol. Religion is for manchildren.

>>18440115
Yeah, they’re the manchildren because they don’t talk like retarded teenagers from the hood.

>>18440116
I agree, the only two ways to talk are like a young afroamerican individual or like an autistic cosplayer.

>>18440109
Can you stop pretending like you're Jesus and actually do what He commands you to do? As the Lord says, not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom, but only those who do the will of My Father who is in heaven. Disobedient heretic, you will follow your false prophet Paul into hell. Why do you shut your eyes and turn away from God's mercy? Follow the commandments and do as Jesus said to do! You are just as wicked as the Pharisees, who ignored the greater parts of the Law for the least. You would have crucified Jesus had you heard his words! This arguing, this clinging onto the doctrines of 16th century German madmen is pitiable. God will not forgive you if you persist in your heresy and die having been a transgressor of His perfect Law without repentance.

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>>18440115
>>18440116
chunibyo thread

>>18440006


YOU LIKE THE FRUIT, BUT NOT THE TREE; YOU GULP DOWN THE JUICE, AND ESCHEW THE PULP; YOU SMELL THE FLOWERS, AND SCRAP THE SEED.

>>18440133
Kek great timing >>18440134

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>You freely bear false witness against me and the apostles of the Lord Jesus because the Spirit is not in you. You are still in your sins, and you are a servant of the evil one.

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>>18440165
>You freely bear false witness against me and the apostles of the Lord Jesus because the Spirit is not in you. You are still in your sins, and you are a servant of the evil one.

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>>18440006
>I simply cannot believe the mystical aspects of the religion
That's the best part. You don't have to believe in them. Practicing the moral instruction and purifying oneself brings on the (direct, personal) mystical understanding at the appropriate time. You do the one thing to become worthy of the other.

>>18440520
How long do I have to practice the moral instructions before I become a chuunibyou larper who talks like a fourth rate Elizabethan writer?

>>18440535
>How long do I have to practice the moral instructions
Until they become instinct and the right actions start to naturally replace your sinful ones

>>18440561
And then I'll start to talk like an autistic cosplayer? Why?

>>18440006
>believes Christianity is a set of morals

Let this be pretty clear to you from now on:

Christianity = following Christ's teachings and putting them into practice in your daily life, so you'll have practical knowledge (wisdom).

>>18440563
>And then I'll start to talk like an autistic cosplayer?
You'll be free to do anything you want. Including not manifest back into this vale of tears after leaving the body (AKA salvation).

>>18440572
I specifically asked you how long do I have to practice the moral instructions before I become a chuunibyou larper who talks like a fourth rate Elizabethan writer. Why did you pretend to answer that question when you weren't actually answering it, Christian?

>>18440576
I'm not a Christian. If you're asking how to be a snotty sass-mouth on the 'net, good news, you're already well established in that practice.

>>18440579
That is not what I asked either. Are you some sort of bot that is set up to have worse reading comprehension than the average American?

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AI paranoia is doin' a number on modern reddit tourists.

>blessed are they who cope, for theirs is the kingdom of seethe
>blessed are those who mald, for they will be called the cringe of God

>>18440589
That was an insult, not a genuine question. You failed the iq test, Christian.

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>>18440064

>>18440006
judeochristian morals consist of mass rape, genocide, torture, infanticide, etc and etc

Nice morals you have there

>>18440006
Divine command theory is horrible morality

>>18440006
It happens every day in every headline too but you're in the mental echochamber juggling this construct some other guy made and this other construct not looking outside to situations where it's needed but just insisting on what some other guy who was loud said really loudly. Moses parting the Red Sea when the situation demanded it is why Jews today are doing what they do the way they're doing it.

>>18440652


THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS «JUDEOCHRISTIAN MORALS».


>mass rape, genocide, torture, infanticide


THOSE ATROCITIES ARE THE RESULT OF JUDAICAL OR JUDAIZED MORALS.

>>18440694
Please respect your old testament. You don't need to praise modern Jewry to do so. However they are still doing better than their bronze age rivals.
This is petty ethnic rivalry that only shoots Jesus in the foot, because it was his morality.

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Don't go by whatever you think "Christian" moral acts and thoughts are, go directly back to the source and practice straight off the page. Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew.

>>18440006
I resent Christianity for its morals and its jewish origin. I am ambivalent towards its mysticism