How the fuck did arquebus toting jap forces lose to a numerically inferior force?
>>18442112clandestine zainichi sabotage
>He also added that Ming troops were well-protected by bullet-proof iron shields (Note: the claim about iron shields is quite dubious), thus matchlock guns should only be used to signal and cover the charge (with gun smoke), and the battle should be decided in close combat. In the end Keya Takehisa's suggestion was accepted by other commanders.lmao they literally refused the use the guns
For context here, chink and gook forces were savages with bows and arrows while the Japanese troops were veterans of a century of civil war and had White technology. Its unfathomable that they could lose here.
>go to japanese wiki>states japanese fought to a draw because they withdrew after devastating ming forcesKek
>>18442119Doesnt change the fact that they got fucked and had to retreat. Despite Jap sources claiming they totally won, they still withdrew and lost the war.
>>18442125Asian sources are notoriously revisionist. Most of their tech came from white men but they will spin it their way to say that they were the ones who actually invented it. The most famous on is gunpowder. If they invented it, how come they still used bows right up till the whites rocked up with ships armed with cannons and sailors with matchlocks? They were extremely primitive right up till the collapse of the Qing in 1911. They had no roads or machinery while whites were already flying in planes and driving cars. Japan at least saw how backwards they were and hired white experts to build their military and reform their government.
>>18442144During the Sino Japanese wars, the entirety of the Chinese army were rice farmers given European guns by FDR. You had millions of them using these guns as spears because they couldnt understand how guns worked. This resulted in devastating lopsided defeats of the chinks in many engagement with the Japanese, who themselves were backwards as fuck and only ever banzai charged their enemies
>>18442146And during the boxer rebellion, european forces with bolt action rifles went up against the most elite of chinese forces made up of little more than manlets with swords. Obviously the whites won.
>>18442149The idea that east asia was this mystical advanced civilization is entirely made up and only recent. They were and have always been as backwards as africans. Right up till today where they think they are white and larp as white and cover their cities with neon and leds.
>>18442131They btfo the chinks and gooks on land and lost at sea and in logistics.Why can't chinks win a war honorably?
>>18442151Theres a reason why they called nips reaching parity with whites a "Japanese Miracle". It was thought impossible seeing how fucking backwards they were. Parts of Japan and large swathes of China were living in mudhuts and were hunter gatherers. They were as bad if not worse than africans. Sub saharan african tier. But somehow due to nonstop propaganda and revisionism people started to think that these chinks were on par with whites. That they had philosophers and were some 10000 year old civilization.
>>18442120I can't speak for the Gooks but the Chink forces sent to Korea were veterans of fighting Mongols while Chinese infantry from the South were experienced in fighting Pirates & assorted rebel forces.Also while Japan had advantage in musketry they were matched by Ming China's advantage in artillery, which Japan had difficulty acquiring (too expensive for any daimyo) or building (too resource intensive for Jap technology at the time).
>>18442125If we look at it, Korea was the biggest loser in this war.They became bankrupt, their land was completely ravaged while the Japs just went home.
>>18442171Went home? They got their asses kicked and had to relinquish their ambitions at empire for 300 years
>>18442175They didn't get their ass kicked and had a safe passage home, this is guaranteed by the Chinks and gooks in their treaty with the Japs so the Japan would withdraw all the troops that are still occupying Korea even as they lost at the sea.If I were to come to your house, beat you almost to death and destroy everything you own, then return home with a bruise. Did I lose?In fact if we considered the prosperous Edo period that followed then the Imjin war can be considered a good thing for Japan because it allowed the Tokugawa to takeover and usher in an era of unprecedented prosperity that laid the foundation for modern Japanese society itself.
>>18442182>Send your most loyal clans to die in Korea >Your rivals overthrow you and you die a pathetic death>Claim you winOk
>>18442153>Why can't chinks win a war honorably?They eat their people to prolong a siege and are known to divert rivers to kill people. China doesn't fuck around.
>>18442182If won, how come toyotomi clan ceased to exist?
>>18442112Nips got hwachad and chukonukd
>>18442190>>18442189It's just a change in the ruling which end up being a good thing because the next ruling dynasty ushered in a prosperous era. The well-being of Japan was maintained and even increased. Any damage the gooks inflicted on them was short-term. Japan even brought home artisans and technology that contribute to the wealthy Edo period.You can't say the same for Korea which was ravaged and will endure the consequence of the war for centuries to come. Or China who entered another brutal civil war and ended up conquered by barbarians.
>>18442199Toyotomi's goal of the war was to stabilise his reign and that failed as his son was overthrown.Koreas goal was to repel Japan and they succeededMings goal was to defend their tributary state and they succeededNowhere but Japan is it thought that this is anything other than a decisive Japanese defeat as they failed to achieve any of their foreign policy goalsNot to mention collapse of Ming was caused by an ice age and 30 years war in Europe
>>18442199Ming overthrown is just a change in the ruling which end up being a good thing because the next ruling dynasty ushered in a prosperous
>>18442201Right, I came to your house, fuck your wife, beat you almost to death, destroy everything you own but had to go home and face no lasting consequence. I lost.
>>18442205Correct. Same as how America killed many VC and still lost. Maybe you shoud read Clausewitz and Sun Tzu.
>>18442205Brainlet. Let me guess, Japan also won the 2nd Sino Japanese war because they didnt lose territory to the Chinese?
>>18442210The US didnt invade North Vietnam. Japan invaded Korea and just made it their playground.>>18442212Yes, Chang. They didnt lose to China they lost to the Americans.Even in 1945, they were winning against Chinks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ichi-Go
>>18442215Weak bait
>>18442215SEETHING
>>18442215Anon... Ichi go was a catastrophic failure that led to Japanese rout at Manchuria...
Japan solod China and Korea in Imjin warJapan solid China, Britain, Netherlands, America, France, Soviets in WW2In that sense, it can be said that Japan didnt truly lose because it was not a fair fight and Japan only lost because weaker countries like America and Russia had to work together to win
>>18442112most Japanese troops didn't have arquebuses. The Ming had heavy cavalry with thick metal armour that arrows and arquebus balls had a rough time penetrating.
>>18442227Japanese troops employed pike and shit tactics. You telling me pike and shot lost to a cavalry charge?
>>18442235>Japanese troops employed pike and shit tacticsA common misconception thanks to Weeaboos.The basic Japanese formation in the mid-late Sengoku Period was the Sonae. It was a mixed arms formation where muskets only made 20%. They weren't like the pike & shot blocks in europe where half if not 60% of the formation had muskets. This gets even more hilarious when you read up on how Sonae were inspired less by European tactics and more the mainstream tactics in Mainland Asia with the role of Muskets replacing crossbows.
>>18442260Doesnt look very resistant to flanking moves. How the fuck did Korea lose to this
>>18442260It stems from how "Pike and Shot" has come to mean less the specific formations that reached popularity around the 30 Years War, and more an (incorrect) way to refer to the general milieu of combined arms tactics that simultaneously included both lines of muskets and of long pikes in the era straddling the adoption of muskets and them becoming advanced enough that they could replace all other infantry weapons. So while the Japanese did not use "Pike and Shot" per se, they did figure out that the cons of guns of the period required operating in close concert with pikes to compensate for.
>>18442235well, yes, that's what i'm telling you. It happened at Jiksan and has happened quite a few times in history. Pikes aren't a magical cheat code to defeat cavalry any more than rocket launchers are magical cheat codes that make tanks obsolete.
>>18442112Chinks were full professional soldiers compared to nip feudal levyThey also had strong artillery>>18442175He is at last partially right tho. Korea was the bigger loser as it suffered all costs of war and nipland was not touched by war.
>>18442377>Chinks were full professional soldiersmost of the Ming troops in Korea from general Ma Gui on down were only about a half step removed from being full-fledged bandit hordes lmao. In terms of the amount of pillage and raep they did in Korea they were at least 75% as bad as the Japanese a lot of the time
>>18442380Best troops are defending against Jurchens. The gooks had it coming too from the way they treated the Ming after the 1st imjin war.
>>18442380OK, my badProffesional rapists, plunderers and soldiers. When nips were only proffesional rapists and plunderers and levy
>>18442296By that logic most armies in the world used pike & shot then.
>>18442383>The gooks had it coming too from the way they treated the Ming after the 1st imjin war.Are you retarded? There was only one Imjin war. Imjin is the period in a 60 year cycle. The next war was Ding You. Also the Joseon literally celebrated the Ming like heroes and ousted their own Monarch for not being pro ming enough.
>>18442120Guns were invented by chinese
>saves your shitty vassal country singlehandedly >never thanked, actually discriminizatized by nobility for being too stronkThe fuck is wrong with the yangban?
>>18442112>chinks edit warIt's actually both sides withdrew, faggot.
>>18442396Some would say yes. In that is was a distinct era of warfare easily discernible from what came before or after. If you want to be a little more limiting, you could say there's a kind of "critical mass" of both what percentage of you're army is muskets and how integral they are to your formations and doctrine i.e. you can't just have a few captured muskets randomly spread throughout your ranks, but that is an extremely subjective judgement.
>>18442396Another point I forgot, the Nian Rebellion was in the 1800's centuries after either definition of Pike and Shot had ceased being relevant.
>>18442235>>18442260Pike and shot require flat land, The problem is Japanese doesn't have centralized command structure.
>>18442151nevertheless if any nation is going to have a true supercity its going to be in asia and or somewhere like Dubai because western nations have resigned themselves to stagnation primarily because the bane of regulations
>>18443514What are your standards for "Megacity"?Because if your definition is continuous unbroken urban development, then the USA has several of those, the Northeast megalopolis for example is the world's largest Megaopolis by economic output and is home to 53 million people. There's also the Southern California Megaopolis on the opposite coast
>>18443519I charge you 50 billion for a popsicle which i then use to buy from you a popsicle. 100B in economic output
>>18442260Thats cool. How does this compare to Ming bannermen or europeans at the time?
The virgin musketeer fears the steppechadhttps://youtu.be/hWW1whnphSE?si=eHn78tBpHre9XRUs
>>18443862>>18442805>Japanese sharpshooter do Yi a favor or else he would get raped by Steppe horselordsHow did Joseon gooks lose to the Manchus BVLL in that joint pitch battle with the Chinese masters and those two invasions?
>>18443862How did the jurchens conquer Korea what the fuck. I thought horses did poorly in mountainous terrain
>>18443514>bane of regulationsLibertarian cretin
>>18442112Big guns rape small guns, nuff said.
>>18444120The Mongol forces performed adequately during the campaign too.
>>18444395Then why cant Tang horselords conquer Korea?
>>18444996Mongols were just built different and adapt.Tang empire mounted multiple invasions of the Koreanic kingdom of Goguryeo between 645 and 668. Although the Tang army was formidable, with highly trained cavalry and infantry supported by naval logistics, several interrelated factors prevented a swift or complete conquest during the early campaigns.Mountainous terrain and fortified cities: Korea’s rugged topography, particularly around key defensive sites like Ansi Fortress (Ansi-sŏng), limited cavalry effectiveness. Steep hills, rivers, and narrow passes reduced the mobility advantage of Tang cavalry and complicated siege operations.Extended supply lines: Tang forces had to transport provisions over long distances from China across the Liaodong Peninsula and via naval routes. Prolonged campaigns led to shortage of food, fodder for horses, and equipment, which significantly weakened the army during sieges.Elite local leadership: Commanders like Yang Manch’un at Ansi Fortress successfully employed defensive innovations, such as repairing ramparts and repelling repeated assaults. Tang efforts to construct siege mounds were repeatedly foiled.Mohe auxiliaries: Goguryeo allied with Mohe tribes, supplementing their garrison units with capable cavalry, which neutralized some advantages of Tang mounted troops.Harsh climate conditions: Tang campaigns faced severe cold during late stages of sieges, exacerbating frostbite and attrition among horses and soldiers. Approximately 70–80% of Tang cavalry horses reportedly perished during campaigns, severely reducing operational capability.Internal Tang court cautions: Emperor Taizong ignored some advice for rapid, decisive strikes, preferring cautious sieges to preserve forces. Political considerations limited aggressive maneuvers despite tactical opportunities.Silla (land of femboys) perceives a vulnerability. They capitalize on this opportunity.
>>18442220>>18442219Rent free and cope.
>>18442215>>18442222Speaking about battle of ichi?https://youtu.be/cAoinrFMgQ0?t=304&si=7DadALtWCrpgeLl-
