>>18443555
Every religion says this. Chances are if the Catholic church has proof of their miracles the whole world would have converted by now, but there is no persuasive evidence.

>>18443558
The evidence is all there, people ignore it to remain in sin. Eucharistic miracles for example are proven by secular verification.

>>18443555
This is the fulfillment of prophecy, Revelation 13:13-14, 2 Thessalonians 2:9

>>18443563
These aren't counterfeit miracles, so these verses don't apply here.

>>18443558
This is just a bad argument. I'm not even a Christian, but you're suggesting that a lack of belief in something is due to inherent weakness of the idea and an assumption that all people are maximally logical and will always select the best idea, ideology, or philosophy. Life experience will prove that assumption wrong. You could have all of the best ideas, put them into a box, and at least a simple majority will always find a way to deviate from it.

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It's not surprising a demonic institution like the Catholic Church can mock God with magic

>>18443600
Regular reminder these windows are round when you're not using a fish eye lens.

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>>18443603
Mind raped papist detected: uploading Allah worship

I agree that the catholic church is the correct one. Unfortunately, the gates of hell have indeed prevailed against it. Or Jesus just wants the West to be destroyed by infinite brown immigrants. Either way, I probably don't have any business being a part of it.

>>18443561
They actually aren't. Since we learned to sequence DNA none of the so-called miracles have been confirmed. It's always fungi and bacteria. It's pretty obvious that the old ones were the same and were incorrectly identified due to much more primitive methods (pretty much just observation under the microscope).

>>18443608
>Or Jesus just wants the West to be destroyed by infinite brown immigrants.
Who's gonna tell him

>>18443603
How can you be BTFO on something so easy to verify? LMAO Catholics are retarded

>>18443611
Cardinal Sarah disagrees (which is funny considering he's a literal vantablack gorillanigger), but virtually all of the rest of the church does indeed crave total white extinction from the looks of things

>>18443615
Oh wait he hasn't even been a cardinal for 5 years lmfao nevermind

>>18443610
Also, your average Christian is incredibly naive. They sometimes find human DNA on those which is heavily fragmented and definitely comes from contamination, but Christian websites claim it can't be sequenced because of its divine nature. It's a complete nonsense and only shows that they know nothing about genetics.

>>18443617
Unfortunately this also applies to scientists, who show such enormous bias that rarely any serious peer-reviewed publication decides to publish their findings.

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>>18443555
>DEUS VULT

>>18443555
The Catholic Church's claim to fame is being the same organization from the beginning; the original one. That's it. It's idolatry to put the organization before the spirit of the organization.


"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.”

Following the leading of the Holy Spirit is an activity that takes effort. You have to be tuned in. It's lazy and cutting corners just to be loyal to an organization because it's the original one. Satan attacks and takes over churches to make them ineffective. Read the epistles and explore the problems the early church was having. These very dangerous problems led to its downfall and ineffectiveness.

It feels good to rest knowing that you have found the One True Church. That's a deceptive rest and assuredness. Like sheep to the slaughter. Like how in The Godfather, Michael assures and placates people that they are safe right before having them murdered.

>>18443555
I am a Catholic who only a few years ago came back to the church after drifting for a very long period of years. It would be nice just to get all the baptized Catholics to return to church.

But I also know that I only really started to take my faith seriously at the same time I became committed to the Pro-Life movement. In my youth I was ambivalent about human life in the womb and as I grew older that ambivalence gradually extended to my views on church as well. And without really thinking about it I gradually drifted away from God over the course of years. I think many baptized Catholics are in that boat.

Even worse are those politicians who call themselves Catholic, actively support abortion, and make a big show of going to church to receive the Eucharist. Almost as worse are those bishops, archbishops, and cardinals who support them.

>>18443561
There is no evidence, some Catholics have done the bare minimum "trust me bro" testing that they are not trained for if they even did it at all, and none of it is even publicly available. They won't share any evidence of modern day miracles, they won't show footage of exorcisms, they have nothing, because if they did, they'd put their dick on the table, but they never will, they'll continue to make all the same claims every other religion does to make themselves feel good but you have nothing and you know it.

>>18443785
>they won't show footage of exorcisms
At the end of the day no one wants to see some sexually-frustrated priest exploiting the credulity of the locals to abuse some mentally ill teen while her superstitious parents gibber in the background

>look up one of these supposed miracles witnessed by a lot of people
>one of them is just a spanish villagers claiming they totally saw the sun do wacky shit (none of them agree on what it did)
>this is all the proof the church needs to declare it a miracle despite the fact it only happened in this area with only dude trust me statements (despite the fact that a camera man was there)

>>18443789
Portugal and there were tens of thousands of witnessed including some who went there specifically to see nothing happen and then something did actually happen

>>18443816
And many of them reported nothing, and there are no photos because apparently the crowds were more interesting than the miracle, and the whole thing was basically pointless as the secrets were very vague and inconsequential.
This one is by far the weirdest miracle out there. It's completely illogical and pointless.

>>18443827
But it did happen which is why it is still discussed today

>>18443833
It's purely anecdotal evidence. There's nothing substantial about it and no sceptic will be convinced by it.

>>18443833
We discuss all sorts of things today that people claim happened a while ago, but for which there isn't a ton of evidence

>>18443555
I occasionally consider joining the Catholic church, for the same reasons you chose that image for your post

>>18443574
Well yes part of being human is understanding how reality works. If you throw a stone at the water and it splashes, chances are if you throw another stone at the water it will splash again. Based on these experiences you realize how the universe we live in operates outside of your mind.

Everything else is is superstitions, philosophies, and fairytales

>>18443708
All this convincing yourself to make the fantasies in your head real. Circular reasoning to make you participate in rituals to strengthen your imaginary friend and make your fairytales more vivid in your mind.

>>18443858
Nope, you're wrong.
Find your Creator before it's too late.
Or do you like hiding from Him because you love this evil world more?

>>18443555
Every religion has miracles, it's just catholic money

>>18443567
These *are* counterfeit miracles because they are done to confirm a counterfeit church. The vast majority of them are simple frauds, made up to trick the gullible into emptying their wallets. What few are not are certainly acts of demonic deception. See 1 John 4:1-3, Deuteronomy 13:1-5

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>>18443555
the trinity is correct but the bread and wine does not miraculously literally transform into flesh and blood... its a manifestation of the Spirit, wouldn't exist if the Spirit was never sown into the flesh at the fall. You are supposed to recognize the fruits of the Spirit, and treat them with due respect accordingly, but instead you are a retarded worshiper of whatever devil you think will give you a reward after you die.

>>18443843
3 kids state that on a specific date something supernatural will happen. Thousands proceed to go and then something supernatural happens and even those that went there just to mock them also agree something beyond natural events happened. This was just over 100 years ago. I am surprised it is not discussed more often. It is probably more comfortable to continue to believe that nothing ever happened because inconsistency of some reports (despite overwhelming consensus that there was the occurrence of a conventionally unexplainable act) as opposed to the consequence of what the miracle represents.

>>18443555
Abrahamicism has existed for 3000+ years yet there is no evidence for Yahweh, Abraham or Moses ever existing.
There is no evidence Mary was a virgin or Jesus rose from the dead either.
You've have 140 years of video and 200 years of photography and billions of believers and yet not a single piece of evidence pointing to the truth of your beliefs beyond "this person/book says so" which is anecdotal, third hand, circular reasoning.

>>18443952
What would evidence Mary was a virgin look like? Do you people think before reading off your script?

>>18443956
Rather, the fact she is known to have had other children debunks the Catholic position.

How do Catholics explain the bad popes? Like that fella who filled it full of whores to bang? Bad apple or God's will?

>>18443555
Is it true that if you weren't born a Catholic, you will never truly be one?

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>>18443962
>spiteful tradition created over a thousand years later debunk what Christians held before and still hold today

>>18443947
>as opposed to the consequence of what the miracle represents.
This is what is always is. I've talked to more people than I can count both hands who don't doubt Christian claims, but can't imagine changing their life in such a drastic ways.
In my experience this is the average person's reason for continuing to live in sin.

>>18443947
It reprezents nothing, that's the point. Why is your god making magic tricks for Portuguese peasants? What he tries to achieve? What was the point of very vague prophecies? Why this so-called miracle wasn't photographed by anyone?

This is the problem, the universe and science makes the world a logical place, you believe in senseless unproved events to be a manifestation of the being that created this universe. Sorry, but this is stupid.

>>18444026
It's not about sin, it's about science explaining the world much better than your religion.

>>18444030
Every one of your questions is answered by basic research into Fatima.
>I asked questions outting myself as not having looked into such a well documented topic. I believe in logic(which I can't even properly explain what that is). Sorry, but this is stupid.

>>18444033
>It's not about sin
I have had friends both in person and online, co workers, and passing conversations with people say exactly this.
>it's about science explaining the world much better than your religion.
Have never encountered this one out in the wild. Sorry, but you're a minority position. Stop assigning it to so many.

>>18444035
It can't. It's not a logical thing. It's on you to explain why this utterly pointless miracle happened. I have nothing, I have testimonies from retarded peasants that saw a dancing sun and three meme prophecies that changed absolutely nothing.

>>18444030
Portuguese peasants don't carry cameras, come on now. Science said asbestos is safe, now we know it is a killer. Science said AstraZeneca is safe and effective, now they have removed it from the market. There are many such cases. Can you really trust the science over some peasants?

>>18444040
>testimonies from retarded peasants
What a poor straw man. The exact opposite of this being true is why Fatima is such a big deal

>>18444058
There are photos from the event, there were reporters there. All the photos show crowds of people, not the miracle. It's as if the miracle wasn't interesting enough to make a photo of it.

Science also discovered that those things weren't safe.

>>18444062
What opposite? It's obviously an exaggeration, but it's nothing more than a bunch of contradicting testimonies. Apparently some people haven't even seen anything.

>>18444075
>I'm obviously posting everything in bad faith.
Everyone can tell. You claim ignorance or disinterest when it's convenient then boldly assert your knowledge of what REALLY happened. I appreciate the engagement in the thread, but I won't be replying again. It's all in bad faith and obvious you have no intention of changing.

>>18443555
2/3 or more of those miracles are "we don't know if they're authentic but you can believe them if you want t. Magisterium".

>>18443617
Average atheist is also incredibly naive. Though I agree with communion wafer contamination.

>>18443708
Cath church is reliable and rational in its teaching. Ortho are reliable and mystic. Pick your flavor. Prots are too unreliable. I'm cath, I don't masturbate, I still don't feel it's particularly wrong. If I was prot, I'd go "nothing in the Bible against it, conscience says go ahead, gonna goon".

>>18443558
Nah, we know covid, we know covid vaccines, we know sat fat (palmitic fatty acid) bad, we know there are billions of people who will deny all that. Or like, flat earth people.

>>18443856
Your argument contradicts itself. Those experiences are literally how superstitions are created.
>see black cat (throw stone)
>bad happens (stone splashes)
>ok
>see black cat again (throw stone)
>bad happens (stone splashes)
>confirmation bias engage, superstition born

>>18443952
What evidence would be sufficient for you

>>18443967
Both, wolves in sheeps clothing, Bible is choke full of bad religious figures. Pope's not infallible, just religious statements done by him with a specific protocol are.

>>18443993
False

>>18444030
One of the claimed prophecies is, "Russia will spread its errors across the world". Exactly that happened. Read about KGB/FSB propaganda abroad. There's more stuff that happened but that one strikes me the most.

>>18444069
So we have established that science contradicts itself and that taking photos of the sun in full bloom is not easily achieved. NASA spend billions on equipment to take pictures of stars. This was in 1917. The reason this happened was for people to talk about it, make others enquire and hopefully look into God. It is difficult to accept in a world of edgelord atheism but people have believed in God for thousands of years. Many pieces of ancient literature ("the Greeks!") show these people being as smart or even smarter than the average person of today who probably does not know how to start a fire without a match. I suggest you stop the bias and just look into it with an open mind, not drawing a conclusion before the consequences of it actually being real are difficult to comprehend

>>18444095
Because not before

>>18444094
And then Russia was defeated and cold war ended. Also, later on they consecrated Russia and obviously nothing changed.

It wasn't exactly hard to make such vague predictions. Communism was a huge movement in 1917 Russia.

>>18444095
I'm sure more people would talk about it if it was a global event. Are a bunch of portuguese peasants his chosen people? Also, it really wasn't successful as the world became much more secular afterwards.

>>18444101
No, GRU/SDA/Lakhta/SVR/Struktura keep spamming with divisive stuff. It's not about communism now, it's about sowing discord and giving the impression that there's no truth and everyone is lying and corrupt all the time. They're doing much more harm now.

They run parallel fake communities covering entire spectrum from far right to center to far left, aimed at every demographic to generate outrage and pull people apart. Mueller report is an example. Chinks probably do the same.

>>18444108
Yes you are right it is as secular as ever, at least in the west. This is not really a surprise as "narrow is the gate" and "many are called but few are chosen". I'm starting to think predestination might have some merit. Maybe the point of the miracle was aimed at those who were already convicted

>>18444124
So what's the error now? She clearly refered to communism back then, now Russia pretends to be trad and religious.

>>18444139
Social division and the "there's no truth, there's no good side, everyone is lying, everything is morally brown" idea. Pretty sure this is more of an error than an attempt at constructive atheism re Catholic ideology. Since we're big on unity/community building. Consecration was half-assed I guess, maybe it was supposed to be turned Cath, idk. Well whatever, it's getting offtopic.

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catholics in my country try to pass off obvious legends written way after the fact as miracles

>>18444168
normies everywhere are retarded, check official stance, it's gonna be either debunked/not mentioned, or "ok to believe it happened but we cant confirm it happened"

>>18443555
Miracles ceased with the end of the Apostolic age.
Angels dont interact with humans anymore as God has no more messages to communicate.
Fallen Angles dont interact with humans anymore either out of disinterest or because they cant, in fact they only ever interacted with humans in the times of Jesus because they were drawn to him like moths to the light.
If you believe otherwise you are superstitious and lack faith.

I completely oppose all immigration to white countries and East Asia. Catholic institutions, and the Pope himself support mass migration to these places. Not even the mass migration of just Catholics, who could well be Haitans or Germans, which I oppose their migration to my country entirely as well. Rather it is mass migration itself that is the problem.

Immigration is a more important issue than any abstract concern like souls or hell and etc. Flooding my country with people who would be considered mentally retarded or sociopaths just 20 years ago, because they are Catholic or brown or any other excuse is a much greater problem than anything a religion has ever confronted. But Catholicism actually supports this, even with the people who actually attend mass and give a damn at all about their faith completely opposed these things.

If Catholics merely opposed Zionism and supported meaningful sovereignty globally, it would be even preferable to anything else, for me at least. But it doesn't. It's gay nigger communism .5 as it stands.

>>18444168
This happened, and the image itself is miraculous.

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>>18443555
Florian and Kieran? On fucking /his/???

>>18444223
>Miracles ceased with the end of the Apostolic age
Because... you made it up? There is no reason to believe this unless you follow something that does not recieve miracles from God, and are pretending like that is normal.

>>18444442
Because no miracles have taken place since then.

>>18443555
Miracles in the Bible
>an angel personally strikes down an army of 185,000 Assyrians to save Jerusalem
>Peter and the other apostles can heal anybody, speak any language, basically unlimited miraculous power

Miracles now
>occasionally God shows some random Catholics a vision of Mary
>sometimes people recover from disease after prayer, but not consistently or anything, and never with certain conditions like lost limbs for some reason
Seriously?

>>18443816
>Look at the sun
>My vision blurs and I see shapes and colors and the sun move around, because I looked at the sun of course
>Therefore the Virgin Mary appeared to children
Lobotomies aren't needed anymore you can just make someone a miracle obsessed catholic

>>18444385
The Franciscans on the ground before we even have historical records of Juan Diego said it was an Aztec cult and that the tilma was made by a painter who they knew by name

>>18444597
Why go on the internet and lie?

>>18443555
I've done miracles myself blud

>>18443555
>>Thousands of documented miracles
>>Some witnessed by over 100,000 people in the modern era
Wow so some sub-60 IQ spics thought they saw mother mary's apparition in the blood of the enemy cartel guy's head they sawed off, I'm convinced! I'm off to Walmart to buy those little mexican candles with saints on them now.

>>18444177
im aware, in catholic high school they outright told us it was made up by spaniards lol but that doesn't stop priests from lying barefacedly to people every 12th of december
>>18444385
no it didn't and the tilma would be too large for a giant

>>18443555
>COME TO MY CHRISTIAN CHURCH
>posts eastern characters who are tied to eastern paganism
?

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>>18443615
One of the pope candidate last time was some congolese cardinal and he said something like this to his people.

>>18445701
They are from Pokemon Spain but I doubt that christianity exists in the Pokemon world besides Brock mentioning Noah once.

>>18446229
Whats wrong with this? Whypeepoo are refusing life and unbearably smug while doing so, why would he feel anything but disgust and contempt for them?

>>18446233
You are a brown tradcath?

Will Protestants go to hell if they don’t convert to Catholicism? I was raised protestant that’s why I ask.

>>18445227
Go read about it nigga idk what to tell you. If you think that's a lie the only info you have about Guadalupe came from a 15 min pop apologist YouTube video

>>18445674
>in catholic high school they outright told us it was made up by spaniards lol
Saint canonizations are infallible so when they tell you things like this, like Juan Diego being made up, they're admitting Catholicism is a false religion. They probably don't know this as catechesis is so horrific today most Catholics don't even no what they're supposed to believe

Even my rad trad priest from back in the day told us Job was a symbolic literary figure. Job is canonized by Rome lmao

>>18446232
Don’t they already have a creator god named Arceus

Jesus’ “miracles” were nothing more than simple magic tricks he learnt during his youth in Egypt, he was no different from any other street magician whose “magic” is nothing more than special effects anyone with the right tools can easily replicate.

If Jesus doing “miracles” proves his divinity, then you also have to admit that Vespasian and Apollonius were also divine since they did similar acts as Jesus and with eyewitnesses btw.

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SENOOOOOOOOOR

>>18446416
>i don't believe books written 40 years after crucifixion but i believe legends from hundreds of years after

>>18444094
>If I was prot, I'd go "nothing in the Bible against it, conscience says go ahead, gonna goon".
no prot thinks this way though.

>>18443558

Not every religion has evidence for their supposed “miracles.” Catholicism does. Dont be blind to the evidence shown

>>18446918
It has no more evidence than any other religion, unless we're really supposed to believe God's presence has been reduced to crying statues and wafers that bleed

>>18446925
>It has no more evidence than any other religion,
This statement isn't tuprue in the slightest. You are either lying or have never looked into miracles of the Church. So which it it?

Other beliefs don't even come close to then amount of miracles and compiled evidence in the Catholic faith.

Cuz I'm a gay twink, also, can God kill himself if he's unable to die, just as a thought experiment

>>18447079
>Cuz I'm a gay twink
The catechism has a beautiful section on homosexuals and what they are called to. It helped me a lot. Don't let that keep you away from the Church.

2358 of the catechism
>The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

>>18447070
What 'miracles'? The aforementioned bleeding wafers? Some portuguese peasants hallucinating after staring at the sun too long? Some silly story about Mary playing hide and seek with a nun?

>Uh yeah but uh uh uh the age of miracles is over o algo