Are there any non-supernatural explanations for the various properties "Our Lady of Guadalupe" is supposed to exhibit? The eyes natural reflection of figures, surviving the explosion without damage in 1921, the general quality of the painting with no discernible brush strokes.
>>18445722No, it’s obviously real. It doesn’t prove that Christianity is true, by the way, only that a powerful and intelligent force can manipulate matter to produce images like the Tilma or the Shroud.
We can test its miraculous nature by giving it to Muslims and seeing what happens
>>18445722It's simply folklore, legend and religious propaganda. There's no evidence at all supporting the claims about it.Spanish conquistadors arrived in Mexico and were struggling hard to convert the native Aztecs, and then suddenly they manage to find a magical cloak (tilma) to convince them.Also Juan Diego likely never even existed and was only first mentioned 100 years after the painting on the tilma had appeared.>The eyes natural reflection of figuresThis is simple pareidolia on the behalf of believers, people see faces where they want to see them. Catholics are always seeing images of Jesus in things.>surviving the explosion without damage in 1921Lots of objects and people survive explosions too. It's not really surprising a cloak could survive a blast.>the general quality of the painting with no discernible brush strokes.Biased Catholic sources and public pressure led people to initially claim this. The Catholic church then put a ban on people running tests on the cloak, which is a big red flag.Regardless, in 1982 a test of the tilma was secretly conducted without the church's consent.I'll explain the results.It is entirely possible although painstakingly time consuming to paint without leaving any visible brush strokes to the naked eye.Infrared imaging has proven this method was used, and the tiny brush strokes were made visible under infrared.Analysis also showed a previous base layer of white base paint underneath the main painting itself.The canvas and paints were all made from materials and dyes locally available at the time and place.There was evidence of numerous re-paintings and use of protective coating on the tilma.
>>18445799>A 16th century painter in a colony far away from Europe designed this painting to evade 20th century scientific scrutiny
>>18445808He used methods and materials easily available to a 16th century painter and it only evaded scrutiny so long because the church forbade testing, but the painter was clearly trying to make it appears miraculous by the standards of his day.
>>18445811Oh yeah, because dirt poor Indios were scrutinizing a fucking cloth
>>18445812Catholics have a long tradition of forging images of Mary or Jesus and then claiming it's a miracle.Are you trying to imply that if it were fake the Spanish would've intentionally made it obvious? Why do you just choose to ignore the evidence of the testing and believe in the supernatural instead of the science?
>>18445722>Are there any non-supernatural explanations for the various properties "Our Lady of Guadalupe" is supposed to exhibit?None.
>>18445812>Dirt poor IndiosYou're talking about the Aztec Empire anon. These aren't stupid or poor people."Hey we need to convert these Aztecs to Catholicism let's paint a picture of Mary on a cloak and claim it magically appeared!" isn't a far fetched concept especially for Iberian Catholic proselytisers and the ban on examining the cloak only really confirmed it was a forgery, before well, they actually tested it lol.
>>18445823>>18445831These are incredibly elaborate coping mechanisms
>>18445722It's a giant vagina representing the the goddess of fertility.
>>18445839Scientific testing is a coping mechanism?Just admit you'll refuse to accept any evidence that contradicts your ideology.
>>18445845I refuse to accept lies because I love God’s truth more.
>>18445861Science is a lie?
>>18445879No, the scientists who want to "correct the record" on religious artifacts, particularly Catholic ones which are legitimate, are dishonest people. They fabricate evidence out of hatred of God.
>>18445882Okay, the scientific establishment is specifically trying to oppress Catholics, I see...
>>18445891Yes, because they are employed by Jews and Freemasons, who worship Satan. They hate the Gospel.
>>18445894I think you've discovered something really valuable here. I recommend you share it with a local mental health care professional.
>>18445799>Lots of objects and people survive explosions too.
>>18445902I already did, they agreed with me. I explained to them my thought process, how I came to my conclusions, my daily life, my internal world, all of it. They concluded I am a rational and emotionally stable individual.
>>18445904AI chat bots aren't professionals.
