>reading Seneca's stoic philosophy>he brags about his asceticism and what a good stoic sage he is by saying he roughed it by going on a trip with only a single carriageload of slaves, and ate a meal so simple that it took his carriageload of slaves just an hour to prepareHow am I supposed to take his stoicism seriously when he was such a rank hypocrite?
>>18447953So are you though so it's like whatever, you know.
>>18447953nope I'm white, and you are violating this board's rules. Go away.
>>18447955I’m a Mexican peninsular. We’re white. You’re not.
>>18447958You’re not even talking about history. You’re just shitposting and trolling. If the jannies ban me, may they ban YOU.
>>18447964how am I not talking about history. My question is how am I supposed to take Seneca seriously as a stoic when he shows himself to be such a hypocrite. If you think this is not a valid question then explain why instead of just shitposting bizarre racial non-sequiturs that aren't even for the right race.
>>18447967No, you’re trolling. You have eyes, you can read the fucking text! Just shut up, you queer. The post is not even original. It’s been posted multiple times.
>>18447946You do understand that the average westerner has it better than ancient aristocrats and kings right?
>>18447974>The post is not even original. It’s been posted multiple timesok, such as?
>>18447981Just can it, brownie.
>>18447984you are absolutely pathetic. If you have nothing to say then just say nothing.
>>18447946STOICISM IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF LUXURY, NOR OF COMFORT, BUT PATIENCE BEFORE ADVERSITY, AND MODERATION IN EVERYTHING.STOICISM IS NOT MISERY OF THE FLESH, BUT TRANQUILITY OF THE SOUL.
>>18448115I wouldn't consider being a multimillionaire who obsequiously flattered tyrants and helped them commit matricide to be someone who showed moderation in everything.
otherwise well to do elitist Roman stoics would pale and balk at the rudimentary disciplines and asceticism of Christian hermit monastics, or those who live in cloister Epictetus is based though
>>18448126>I wouldn't consider being a multimillionaire[...]WEALTH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER SOMEONE IS STOICAL.>[...] who obsequiously flattered tyrants [...]SENECA NEVER OBSEQUIOUSLY FLATTERED ANY TYRANTS.>[...] and helped them commit matricide [...]LIBEL.
>>18448307>SENECA NEVER OBSEQUIOUSLY FLATTERED ANY TYRANTS.That is an ignorant statement. For example there is absurdly out of place toadying toward Claudius in Seneca's Consolation to Polybius, a letter Seneca wrote while he was in exile. It is to Polybius, one of Claudius' favorite freedmen, as a consolation on the death of his brother.>you cannot allow either joy or grief, or anything else to occupy any part of you: you owe your entire self to Caesar. Add to this that, since you have always declared that Caesar was dearer to you than your own life, you have no right to complain of misfortune as long as Caesar is alive: while he is safe all your friends are alive, you have lost nothing, your eyes ought not only to be dry, but glad. In him is your all, he stands in the place of all else to you: you are not grateful enough for your present happy state (which God forbid that one of your most wise and loyal disposition should be) if you permit yourself to weep at all while Caesar is safe. (part VII)>Fortune, refrain your hands from Caesar, and show your power over him only in doing him good: allow him to heal the long sickness from which mankind has suffered; to replace and restore whatever has been shattered by the frenzy of our late sovereign: may this star, which has shed its rays upon a world overthrown and cast into darkness, ever shine brightly. (part XIII)Explain to me how this is not obsequiously flattering a tyrant.
>>18448430THAT IS NOT OBSEQUIOUS FLATTERY; IT IS A REITERATION OF POLYBIVS' DUTY TOWARD CLAVDIVS WITH THE ULTERIOR INTENT OF PERSUADING CLAVDIVS, INDIRECTLY, TO PARDON HIM.OBSEQUIOUSNESS ENTAILS GROVELING SYCOPHANCY, WHICH NOT WHAT SENECA DISPLAYED THERE.
>>18448447I disagree with that assessment, but instead of arguing that point here is something that you would be quite hard pressed to argue is not "groveling sycophancy" as you put it. This is from Seneca's letter to Nero, "on clemency">You, Caesar, can boldly say that everything which has come into your charge has been kept safe, and that the state has neither openly nor secretly suffered any loss at your hands. You have coveted a glory which is most rare, and which has been obtained by no emperor before you, that of innocence. Your remarkable goodness is not thrown away, nor is it ungratefully or spitefully undervalued. Men feel gratitude towards you: no one person ever was so dear to another as you are to the people of Rome, whose great and enduring benefit you are. You have, however, taken upon yourself a mighty burden: no one any longer speaks of the good times of the late Emperor Augustus, or the first years of the reign of Tiberius, or proposes for your imitation any model outside yourself: yours is a pattern reign. This would have been difficult had your goodness of heart not been innate, but merely adopted for a time; for no one can wear a mask for long, and fictitious qualities soon give place to true ones. Those which are founded upon truth, and which, so to speak, grow out of a solid basis, only become greater and better as time goes on. The Roman people were in a state of great hazard as long as it was uncertain how your generous disposition would turn out; now, however, the prayers of the community are sure of an answer, for there is no fear that you should suddenly forget our own character. Indeed. . .great successes become the stepping-stones to greater ones, and those who have obtained more than they hoped, entertain even more extravagant hopes than before; yet by all your countrymen we hear it admitted that they are now happy, and moreover, that nothing can be added to the blessings that they enjoy, except that they should be eternal.
>>18448471he then goes on to describe tyranny under Nero as some kind of utopia where Nero's is the perfectly wise ruler and judge whose unique genius alone prevents Rome from collapsing>Many circumstances force this admission from them, although it is the one which men are least willing to make: we enjoy a profound and prosperous peace, the power of the law has been openly asserted in the sight of all men, and raised beyond the reach of any violent interference: the form of our government is so happy, as to contain all the essentials of liberty except the power of destroying itself. It is nevertheless your clemency which is most especially admired by the high and low alike: every man enjoys or hopes to enjoy the other blessings of your rule according to the measure of his own personal good fortune, whereas from your clemency all hope alike: no one has so much confidence in his own innocence, as not to feel glad that in your presence stands a clemency which is ready to make allowance for human errors.
>>18448471IF YOU DO NOT IMAGINE SENECA LAUGHING HIS INTESTINES OUT WHILST WRITING THAT, YOU ARE MENTALLY IMPAIRED.
>>18448474Are you saying he wrote this work of groveling sycophancy to one of history's most infamous tyrants as a joke? Whatever he was actually thinking as he wrote it, he wrote it nonetheless. If he wrote such words to a man he considered a pathetic joke then it is even worse sycophancy.
>>18448506HE WAS INSTRUMENTALIZING IRONY.SYCOPHANCY IS SINCERE.THIS SEEMS TO BE «GOING OVER YOUR HEAD».
>>18448509I don't understand your position at all. Explain it, if you can.
>>18447946I mean at least he's trying. You have to realize that he's a rich senator and turning away from displays of extravagance is completely against fashion and social customs. This was all before Christianity had instilled within culture the idea that a man's character is what's important, although we take this for granted nowadays.
>>18448510SENECA WANTED TO BE PARDONED; ALL HIS FLATTERY TOWARD THE EMPEROR IN TURN WAS IRONICAL AND PRAGMATICAL —MERELY PERFUNCTORY AT TIMES, OR CONTINGENT TO THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF HIS ADDRESSEE, LIKE IN THE CASE OF POLYBIVS—, NOT SYCOPHANTICAL.THE FACT THAT YOU READ IT LITERALLY EVINCES MORE ABOUT YOU THAN ABOUT SENECA.
>>18448516That is literally what sycophancy is, excessive and insincere flattery.And what do you have to say about Seneca writing a letter to the senate on Nero's behalf justifying the murder of Agrippina? An act so craven that Tacitus records the senator Thrasea walking out of the senate in disgust as it was being read.
>>18447946Very difficult to be told to 'just chill you can't control it' from one of the richest men in rome.
