>It has been estimated that less than ten per cent of all classical literature has survived into the modern era. For Latin, the figure is even worse: it is estimated that only one hundredth of all Latin literature remains.How ever much you hate Christianity, know it isn't even close to enough. If you're a European, or of European descent, Christianity literally stole the world from you. More than that, it stole your destiny. It was our blood right to rule this world, even under the circumstances, we did, momentarily. But Christcuckery pervaded us, destroyed our Pagan origin, and set us on this course of Semitic universalism, holier-than-thou, turn-the-other-cheek, first-shall-become-last jewish philosophy that is still molesting this world today also in newer forms.Christianity is a fake religion created by jews who took the story of one of many roaming charlatans at the time, not Simon or Apollonius, but that of Jesus, son of Panthera and a jewish woman lying about her maidenhead. Then Paul constructed this into a tool to push onto the jews' mortal enemy: Rome.TCD
>>18449905Yeah. Pretty weird that they tried to destroy everything that came before and all trace of their forerunner pagan religion which they basically stole everything from. I'm not particularly interested in Christianity, but I don't want to destroy everything they built or wrote to hide their existence or make it so there is nothing contrary to my own beliefs. It's really fishy. That said, aspects of Christianity are almost certainly synthesized versions of ancient pagan rites.
>>18449905The largest body representing late antique popular literature are the stories of Catholic Saints.aka, the Romans really really really really really liked Eroguro.
Couldn't have been that there was a complete societal collapse in the Latin world that resulted mass deurbanization, illiteracy, and the breakdown of all the various institutions and social classes involved in preserving the written word. No, it must a secret conspiracy by a group of people who hadn't even migrated to the west in sizable numbers yet who were all prohibited by both secular and religious law from holding any position of power.
>>18449905>implies modern jews are the founders of christianity, yet only tries to incite anger and violence towards christians, who of course constitute a majority of the white population, which he pretends he wants to protectHmm, I wonder who could be behind this thread.
>>18449905It's not really the fault of Christianity that texts are missing. Texts went missing all the time in antiquity, book collecting elites actively sought out lost texts and even just trying to confirm if they even existed like what Democritus did with The Master of Debaucheries where he went to Alexandria to find proof the book actually existed, which he did, although there were not extant texts in existence. The loss of texts was mostly due to the end of the literati elite of the Roman state who maintained these texts, copied and traded them around. By the 6th century they no longer existed in the West, and by the 7th century the literati culture was extinguished, literature in the East was preserved due to the state maintaining their archives and by the 10th century, a new literati culture emerged to preserve what remained.
>>18449964>>18449983While late antiquity Christians as a whole didn’t intentionally try to destroy classical texts in one massive book burning like pop culture depicts them as doing, their actions indirectly caused the loss of many classical texts since the pagan temples that Christians shut down didn’t just function as religious sites, but also as libraries and archives that held local histories, legal records, and technical manuals which Chrtistians had zero interest in recopying. Many monks also had a tendency to literally scrape texts off their parchment so that they could write sermons or prayer books over them because they were too lazy to buy new parchment (by using multispectral imaging and x-ray fluorescence, we’ve actually rediscovered several lost texts that some monk scraped off their parchment like the Archimedes Palimpsest). Many texts like the Chaldean Oracles or Marcus Terentius Varro’s 41-volume treatise on the Roman religion titled Antiquities of Human and Divine Things were also intentionally discarded because the full works weren’t deemed “useful” to Christians, even if pagans considered them immensely valuable.The texts we do have only survived because they were essential for teaching Greek and Latin grammar or rhetoric, not because Christians appreciated the content itself. Pagans had already been copying these texts for centuries and would have continued to do so without Christianity; it's foolish to suggest that Christianity was somehow necessary for their preservation (especially when pagan institutions that had already been preserving them for centuries like temple libraries and Neoplatonist academies were literally shut down by Christians). It’s less that Christianity “saved” the classics but rather they became the sole librarians after they helped dismantle the competition.
>>18450049>like the Archimedes PalimpsestThis is something you see repeated by your kind ad nauseam.The fact they had a tenth century copy of this palimpset means they had previously preserved it, in an entirely Christian context, and likely had made a subsequent and newer copy at that time.They scraped it because the ink on *that particular* copy had begun to fade but the material was still good.Those other copies going missing subsequently due to various reasons doesn't mean this one single act is responsible for the loss.
>>18449905It's a cope but I like to think that without Christianity mankind would have formed a space empire like wh 40k shit.
>>18449905>If you're a European, or of European descent, Christianity literally stole the world from youGreek and Roman literature belongs to the world not to "European" barbarians who by 800 AD were still illiterate and had not produced any literature
>>18449905Papyrus doesn't last forever, those doing the copying in the subsequent centuries had to make a conscious choice what to preserve and what to let fall ro ruin and oblivion.
this "muh palimpsest" line is so common, like "muh Hypatia", that this famous site has had articles putting Voltaire's fedora propaganda on blast for many years nownot that the shills care about being corrected or what the truth of the matter is, they'll just repeat the lie because most people don't bother correcting them or don't know any better and might believe themsomething someone smart once said, the lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth gets out of bed that morninghttps://historyforatheists.com/2017/09/the-archimedes-palimpsest/
https://historyforatheists.com/2020/03/the-great-myths-8-the-loss-of-ancient-learning/
>>18450510>>18450528>historyforatheists>Looks inside>Ahistorical nonsenseKindly fuck off Sanchez. Also, none of us are atheists.
>>18450191>The fact they had a tenth century copy of this palimpset means they had previously preserved it, in an entirely Christian context, and likely had made a subsequent and newer copy at that time.>They scraped it because the ink on *that particular* copy had begun to fade but the material was still good.Except it was the only copy. Your argument is literally “some of the ink disappeared, so let’s scrape the entire thing and have it become a lost text for centuries.” By your own logic, we should scrape the entirety of the original Beowulf manuscript because some of the ink faded.Pagan texts from antiquity will always have more infinitely value than any contemporary Christian text. If you can’t be bothered to preserve everything you are in fact capable of preserving which included anti-Christian treatises like Porphyry of Tyre’s Against the Christians, then no you don’t value the texts of antiquity.
>>18450645>Except it was the only copy. The only one that survived, that we know of.You have absolutely no idea if there were others made that simply didn't make it.And there is literally no way to establish that one way or the other, so nobody knows or can know.>the original Beowulf manuscriptexcept that palimpsest wasn't "the original" Archimedes wrote the original, this was just one copy.
>>18449905Interesting thesis but I'm gonna have to disagree with your conclusions. Many ancient texts were discovered thanks to the church. You're just salty your favorites were excluded. Skill issue.
You think that's bad? Try being a Mesoamerica buff. Out of tens of thousands of books only 14 remain, most missing large pieces from damage. We know from tribute records that the Aztecs demanded 30-60k pieces of paper per year in tribute from SEVERAL different subjects. The christians burned every fucking library and the ones that weren't kept in libraries mostly rotted away due to the climate. Fucking depressing
>>18450294the romans destroyed all the matriarchal culture of the celts and iberians
>>18450983>celts and iberiansNeither of which were matriarchal
>>18449905>experts agreeShut your hook schnozz dumb inbred
>>18449905TKD TCDTJD
>>18449905Christianity was literally the reason those hundredths survived, dumbas
>>18450804Napoleon them did it to Spain and destroyed their artifacts and architecture.Napoleonic French soldiers also devastated the cultural heritage of Spain and Portugal by destroying monasteries, churches, saint's relics, jewels, altering the entire skyline of cities with the devastation they caused.See this thread on the sheer damage the French did to Spanish heritage.https://twitter.com/IberianSpirit/status/1515432962631909383https://twitter.com/AdLucem7/status/1515480892998885378British and French troops both then mass raped Spanish girls and women in the Iberian war.https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/18414604/#q18415997
>>18450804
>>18449905You've never read what's already available, yet you complain?
>>18450804Those books survived because a Friar bothered to write them. Be grateful
>>18451505
>>18451510
>>18449905Christianity would've had a harder time spreading if there wasn't a large cannibalistic empire full of roads to let it spread through. Pagan Rome destroyed the druids yet you don't complain about that. Pagan Rome led to Christian Europe.
>>18451521Completely inaccurate ai slop, shame on you
>>18450631>Also, none of us are atheists.Of course you aren't, mutts. Literally, the same kind of backward fanatics like Arabs or Negroes.
>>18451475Already debunked that myth here>>18450049>>18450773It was a classical text and absolutely nothing ever justifies scraping it off. Again, pagan texts of antiquity will always have infinitely more value than any Christian sermon.>>18451662I’m Italian and have no ties to anything American whatsoever. Please fuck off.
>>1844990510% is pretty good. Of all the books written between 1900-2000, how many are read at all today? Of all the books written in 2026, how many will even be remembered by anyone next year?
>>18451509Cool, doesn’t change the fact that the Spanish still burnt every other text. It isn’t a service to Mesoamerican history, it’s more like putting a bandaid on a stab-wound that you inflicted. Imagine if I lit your house on fire and burned it to the ground, but went inside and grabbed your television and handed it to you before it got destroyed. Would you get on your knees and thank me? Obviously not.
It is always a shame if written works disappear from human knowledge, but still, Judeo-Christian values are the most valuable societal and cultural treasure the world has seen and have given us prosperity, harmony and spiritual safety that other societies and cultures in history couldn’t have even dreamt of.
>>18449905Christus regnant
>>18451751you’re the italian neopagan larper. that when exposed of saying he doesn’t actually worship the old gods and knows they aren’t there, claims you are a neoplatonist. when pushed further on that you say you just hate christianity because to you it’s brown and jewish. you are a materialist that worships your own ethnicity, desperate to distance yourself from anything “semitic” i imagine because because some italians are known to be a bit swarthy, and you desperately want to be seen as “white”. I’ve debated you in countless threads before.
>>18451763I don't have a tv
>>18451793I do in fact worship the gods of Olympus, I pray to them and make offerings everyday. But sure, tell me that you know more about me than me myself. You yourself do not understand Neoplatonism and everytime it’s explained to you, you fail to understand it or ignore what is said. So again, let me summarize Neoplatonist thoughtAll reality emanates from a single divine source called the Monad or “the One” which is ineffable and beyond human comprehension. All reality emanates from this source as follows—from the Monad emerges the Nous (the Divine Intellect), followed by the Psyche (the World Soul), and then finally the physical universe. The gods are all aspects or emanations of the Monad and function as intermediary principles or “Henads” between the Monad and the physical universe. They exist in a hierarchy which emanates from the Monad as follows—first the Hypercosmic gods who make Essence, Life, and Soul, the Demiurge who makes the physical universe, and then finally the Cosmic gods who make Being, Nature, and Matter. Traditional myths are not literal historical events, but rather allegories for deeper divine truths and when interpreted correctly, they contain profound, hidden wisdom. Thus having multiple different creation myths can be valid as they are allegories describing the same events in different terms. The gods are not literally anthropomorphic beings with a physical body of flesh and blood as traditionally depicted, but rather metaphysical spirits whose true forms transcend the physical universe. The anthropomorphic depictions of them are useful representations of them, but not what they actually look like. Compare this to how love, a thing which exists but is not a physical thing that can be weighed or measured, is often represented by a heart symbol. The only way the gods can be “anthropomorphic” would be by taking such an appearance in dreams or visions to easily communicate with us, therefore remaining non-physical.
Its pretty funny how fedoras think they can hold an entire religion accountable for the actions of a single monk scraping an old book which an entire line of monks before him had collectively produced, and that they're the coherent and rational ones for saying this.Meanwhile, when I point out the effects of state enforced ideological atheism ala Stalin and Mao, they'll be quick to say atheism isn't responsible for that.
>>18452136>Traditional myths are not literal historical eventsOh look, the revisionist.You know the ancients literally thought they actually happened right? As in, their mythic genealogies eventually include regular historical people. Like, people claimed nymphs and shit as actual ancestors. Spartans were known for that in fact.>gods are not literally anthropomorphic beingsNah, they are.You're just uncomfortable with the implications of euhemerism.The gods were not impersonal natural forces. You cannot offend the sea like you can Poseidon. Poseidon is not a metaphor for the sea, he's a deity that took the sea as his domain and when you offend him or do him wrong like Odysseus did by blinding the cyclops, he uses the sea to inflict his vengeance. You know, since the cyclops was literally related to him.They had very human motivations. In fact, these human personality traits are exaggerated to an almost comical degree in the gods, they are like humans dialed up to 11. Both human flaws and strengths are heightened in the character of gods.When Artemis turns a stray hunter into a deer for catching her naked while bathing, it's not some kind of allegory for seeing nature by moonlight or anything. It's Artemis being capricious and vengeful in her virgin's pride, it's supposed to teach people about this aspect of her.>make offerings every daySo you must know exactly which part of the bull is the most sacred one that you can offer to Zeus. One example.
One of the reasons they killed Socrates was that he kept telling people that the gods of his city were basically just a fable.He, like you, rejected the anthropomorphisms common to broader Greek culture. He said the traditional myths were not literally true, that Homer's gods were immoral and vindictive and so they could not be truly divine.For this, they charged him with corrupting the youth and *impiety* and voted for his execution on these grounds.That's how deadly serious the ancient Athenians took their religion, and all the rites associated with it. And this illustrates, profoundly, that they took the literality of these tales at essentially what equates to face value.Socrates was the exception to the rule, not representative of the broader culture to which he belonged and for which he willingly took the poison they prescribed him. You can agree with him, but don't delude yourself with thinking this puts you in the same boat as ancient Greeks as a whole. These people saw the world differently than you do. Neoplatonism is, relatively speaking, a later development.
>>18449905>Christianity is a fake religion created by jewsThe ancient, medieval, and modern Christians nursed a burnin' hatred of the jews as deicides, thoughbeit.Only in the strange soil of gullible American evangelical heretics led by greedy, evil "preachers" has the cult of Israel worship grown strong.
>>18452154>You know the ancients literally thought they actually happened rightEducated people didn’t think so, just read literally anything written by Plutarch, a priest of Apollo btw. Only the plebeians believed centaurs and sirens were literally real and if you want to treat their opinion as authoritative, then you shouldn’t have a problem with treating the opinions of medieval peasants who believed black cats were demons as authoritative on Christian theology.>Nah, they are.And here we go again. You intentionally try ignore every single Greco-Roman intellectual who took myths as allegorical like Cicero or Plato because you are a troglodyte who refuses to accept the idea that educated pagans didn’t take everything literally. You have never read anything written by Plato, Cicero, Plutarch, Cleanthes, Porphyry of Tyre, etc.>So you must know exactly which part of the bull is the most sacred one that you can offer to Zeus. One example.Animal sacrifice by the 4th century was already unpopular to pagans in the Mediterranean and had declined massively even in the century before. They were considered too “messy” and most people had begun to prefer solely bloodless sacrifices that didn’t involve killing animals.Also, most sacrifices don’t take the form of animals anyways. There are different degrees and levels of offerings and sacrifices. Incense and votive offerings were commonly used throughout pagan Europe. Germanic archeological sites are usually littered with golden figurines buried as sacrifices. Germans made sacrifices of everything really including swords and flags looted from enemies. The Romans often made offerings of oatcakes with butter along with frankincense to Jupiter.But if you’re still insistent on animal sacrifice, then I’ll answer your question. Those in antiquity who practiced animal sacrifice considered the thigh-bones to be the most sacred parts.
>>18452175>One of the reasons they killed Socrates was that he kept telling people that the gods of his city were basically just a fable.His last request was literally to sacrifice a rooster to Asclepius. Allegorizing myths does not equal denying the existence of the gods.>that Homer's gods were immoral and vindictive and so they could not be truly divine.They didn’t use the Iliad as proof of the gods not being divine but rather as proof of Homer being a “bad writer.” Also, only early philosophers hated Homer, later philosophers rejected this stance.>For this, they charged him with corrupting the youth and *impiety* and voted for his execution on these grounds.No, Socrates had a number of followers who became leaders of the so-called “Thirty Tyrants,” a puppet government installed in Athens by Sparta after their defeat in the Peloponnesian War. This was an extremely bloody and chaotic period in Athenian politics, with thousands of people being executed by the new government and their property confiscated. The Thirty Tyrants would later be overthrown and democracy restored in Athens, and it was this democratic government which ultimately put Socrates on trial.This is why Socrates was charged with “corrupting the youth,” because many of his students became batshit insane.Also most people didn’t even want him to die. They offered him to simply go into exile multiple times and he was the one who chose to rather die than admit he didn’t teach his students to behave properly.>Socrates was the exception to the rule, not representative of the broader cultureYes, that’s why Plato and most other educated pagans agreed with his metaphysics>Neoplatonism is, relatively speaking, a later development.It was simply an evolution of Platonic thought.Anyways, it’s 5 where I live and I’ve stayed up far too long. I’m going to sleep now and I hope you actually bother to learn virtue and wisdom.
>>18450049>their actions indirectly caused the loss of many classical texts since the pagan temples that Christians shut down didn’t just function as religious sites, but also as libraries and archives that held local histories, legal records, and technical manualsThis was largely done by private collections or state libraries. Temples did have texts by they were nowhere near the majority or even sought out as places to preserve texts, that's what state libraries did. >because they were too lazy to buy new parchment You are ascribing malicious intent where there was none. They did this because they either did not have any on hand or could not afford it. Parchment was not easy to make.>Pagans had already been copying these texts for centuries and would have continued to do so without ChristianityIt was the Roman elite who were copying these texts, without the Roman elite to actually preserve, trade and produce texts, production crashed in the 6th century outside of Italy, and in the 7th century across all post-Roman Europe after the Arabs.>>18452154>>gods are not literally anthropomorphic beings>Nah, they are.nta but have you actually read anything from ancient authors discussing the gods? The Romans almost certainly didn't even have an anthropomorphic conception of gods before they interacted with the Greeks in the 2nd century BC. Nor do authors like Plato, and later neo-Platonists give divine beings a distinct human form
>>18449905It because you're to big of pussies to kill the evil fuckers.
>>18450631>none of us are atheistsyou are talking out of your ass.
>>18451509Spanish didn't copy any Mesoamerican text.
>>18451751>It was a classical text and absolutely nothing ever justifies scraping it off.Nigger, do you ever clean your fucking room? I bet you have piled every single printout and photocopy you've been given through school in some corner of your basement where water, cockroaches and fungi have ready eaten most of.Who the fuck would know it was the last surviving copy, it was one book among a shit ton. Like that anon said, it was illegible and the monk said something along "bummer, at least the guys over at constantinople have a dozen more copies better mantained than this"There just isn't enough manpower to maintain every fucking shit that existed while the world keeps moving. This is how times work, we adapt to the ambition of other random fuckers who decide to burn villages to paint a map. Just look at the state of the fucking internet right now. I can't find a page that isn't AI generated bullshit anymore. Everything is fucking gone.
>>18452363>No, Socrates had a number of followers who became leaders of the so-called “Thirty Tyrants,” Kek. How come nobody has made a movie about this? It's perfect to show that chuds are eternal.
>>18449905Oh look, another jewish DnC thread!
>>18450294>and how it involves me
>>18450294Except modern Europe has far more influence from Ancient Greece and Rome than they do from their tribal past. Meanwhile, all Greco-Roman influence in the Middle East and North Africa vanished after the Arab conquests.Ancient Greco-Roman civilization was primarily a Mediterranean one yes, the but the heir of it today is European civilization since they have far more influence from Ancient Greece and Rome than they do from their tribal past and said Greco-Roman influence on modern Europe is far greater than the rest of the world combined.
