Why did the crème de la crème of the military households stationed at the gate into the Ming from manchurian lands all defect to the Qing instantly and gave the Manchurians a massive professional srmy and industry? Their hundred of thousands of musketeers ensured the south Ming stood no chance. The Qing had Ming muskets and artillery and mongol and jurchen cavalry.
Ming was already going through a revolt, so they unironically thought they'd "lost the mandate".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shun_dynasty
>>18451108I dont know if that is a valid reason to spit on Confucius and fight against your own kin under the banner of foreign invaders.
>>18451122It is what it is.Ming also had a bunch of natural disasters than contributed to it.Once a dynasty was deemed to have lost the mandate it was gg.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Ming_peasant_rebellions
>>18451124>On 24 April, one of Chongzhen's eunuchs ordered the gates to be opened for the rebels, but the guards refused. The defense shot off their cannons in a large show of force, but they had no ammunition. When the rebels realized that only powder was being fired, they attacked in force and took the city gates in a brief struggle. The Chongzhen Emperor ordered the imperial family to commit suicide. Before hanging himself, Chongzhen cut off the arm of one of the princesses who could not bring themselves to suicide. She was still alive the next day when the rebels found her.Why are the eunuchs no balls traitors?
>On June 5, the Beijing population prepared to welcome those who had defeated Li Zicheng. The elders and officials who went out of the city expecting to greet Wu Sangui and the Ming heir apparent were shocked when the leader of the victorious army turned out to be Prince Regent Dorgon of the Qing.[34] Dorgon and his retinue rode to Donghua Gate (東華門), an eastern gate to the Forbidden City, to receive the imperial regalia; Dorgon was then escorted to Wuying Palace by the former Ming imperial bodyguards, who had previously submitted to Li Zicheng but now vowed to serve the Qing.[35] Dorgon welcomed the Shunzhi Emperor to Beijing on October 19.[36] The young monarch was officially enthroned as Emperor of China on November 8, 1644, marking the moment when the Qing seized the Mandate of Heaven.Traitors
>>18451134>On May 28, Wu Sangui's Ming title of Pingxi Earl (平西伯) was raised to Pingxi Prince (平西王).[38] His troops shaved their heads and joined the main Qing forces.Humiliation ritual partook willingly
>>18451103The Ming mistreated their soldiers quite a bit, the Qing were far more pragmatic in that regard.
>>18451103It is by Chinaspammer's dilligent work that I know that apparently, some Evenks were mongolized.
>>18451205The fuck is an Evenk?
>>18451103Because the dynasty they served already died and they were left hanging.It also did not help that the peasant rebels of the Shun Dynasty were all like TOTAL MING DEATH, KILL MING OFFICIALS, BEHEAD MING OFFICIALS. Like ok, they had valid reasons to be angry over government corruption, but they were batshit insane killing anyone linked to the Ming Government including people who might have been useful to them like, i dunno, the fucking Army. Its a no brainer for soldiers like Wu Sangui to accept Nurhaci's deal of letting them through in exchange for positions in his dynasty's army AND noble titles.
>>18451254The rebels also sacked several cities and slaughtered the inhabitants
>>18451210A type of Siberian loosely related to the Manchu.
>>18451257That is putting it lightly. They fucking destroyed entire provinces and cities. 3/4 of Sichuan died from the mass killings. The rebels torches everything in their retreat from the Qing and their Han soldiers who all signed up to kill rebels.
>>18451265When I was reading about it I was really shocked how depopulated China was immediately after the fall of the Ming, Tigers were roaming the capital of Sichuan. It was that bad.
>loses mandate of heaven>Plague>Smallpox epidemics>Fiscal collapse due to lack of silver>Little ice age famines causing mothers to eat their children >Droughts>Grand canal dries up>Peasant rebellions everywhere>Emperor hangs himself>Generals defect to the Qing>25 million deathsKek what a shitshow
>>18451103Because at that point the Qing were essentially walking into an already defeated country. They'd been at war with the Ming for decades. They'd threatened Beijing before from other angles and failed. But the strain of constantly fighting the Jin combined with fighting rebels eventually drove the Ming broke, at which point all pretenses of loyalty melted away.If you want to know why the Ming were broke and failed to inspire loyalty, you have to go back even further, at least to the reigns of Jiajing and Wanli. Or to the founder himself. The Ming had a problem with state revenue right from the start and it never actually fixed the problem. Even Li Zicheng wouldn't have fixed it. His whole pitch was "submit to the dashing prince and you won't pay taxes". The founding Ming emperor already tried that and while it earned him rulership, it created a dysfunctional, corrupt state that couldn't exert much authority at all.It's no exaggeration to call the late Ming a zombie state. Not exactly dead but certainly looking like it should be, it shambled on because there was no viable alternative yet.Historian Ray Huang wrote about the Ming circa 1587:>If the dynasty did not collapse at this point it was largely because no alternative to it existed. In an immense yet noncompetitive empire such as ours, the establishment continued to exist through mere inertia.When your country's establishment exists due to inertia, they'll go wherever the inertia takes them.
>>18451103nobody cares about chink shit
>>18451103Dorgon was very charismatic
>>18451297And thus the insane Sino-mongolo-siberian nonsense state know as Great Qing came into being.
>>18451269What caused to rebels to just completely chimp out like that
>>18452124Immense suffering
>>18451122>your own kinnah
>>18452124they have enough of landlords tyranny
>>18452229Fujian fuckboys
>>18451297
>>18452124The Ming sucked ass, they were notoriously cruel and paranoid even by Chinky dynasty standards.
>>18452253They were based and saved Korea from the japs
>>18452253>Eatablished efficient census for tax>Established a military class that allowed for self sufficient and massive military that had its own lingua franca>Refined civil service exams and made it the primary route for upwards social mobility They were based as hell and Zhu Yuanzhang the begger orphan monk emperor is my favorite emperor
>>18452124The war against the rebels was a war of cities. The walled cities of Ming were imposing fortresses, but often had to fend for themselves when attacked by bandits, because the central government was powerless to aid them in any real way.Local governors had to decide on their own defense policies. The orthodox doctrine for defending a besieged city at the time was "strengthen the walls and clear the fields" - that is, strip the fields bare to shore up supplies, while denying the besiegers any forage of their own.Well, that also means the doctrine for the besiegers becomes "clear the fields before they can clear the fields". At the end of the day, the only thing that's certain is a lot of food is getting wasted.So you have rebel armies rampaging around, disconnected loyalist units, and straight up bandits, all trying to starve each other out. It becomes a war of starvation where every field is denuded or burned, every livestock carried off or slaughtered, every portable object looted. And all the people who would otherwise be farming, are either following armies or in these roaming bands of vagrants - or both at the same time - who eat food but don't produce any, making the problem worse.Enough years of this and the land is simply scoured. Wilderness takes over the fields, cities that fall are wiped off the map, and depopulation happens. Nobody wins because everyone just fucking starves, and so the foreign invaders rolling in could easily pick up the pieces.
>>18452347Interesting
>>18452347>Enough years of this and the land is simply scoured. Wilderness takes over the fields, cities that fall are wiped off the map, and depopulation happens. Nobody wins because everyone just fucking starvesDecisive Tang victory.
Whats with changs and total war? You dont see this in Germany
>>18452444>Totalen krieg? We don't do that in GERMANY!
>>18452451Name me one instance of germans conscripting their entire male population and burning all the fields and granaries in 17th century German warfare. Just one
>>18452451Protestant propaganda
>>18452460Apocalyptic religious conflict? We don't do that in GERMANY!Though ngl after reading on the 30 years war I get why protestants thought the pope was the anti-christ.
>>18452465Schismatic whoresons deserved it
>>18452465those priests earned them boys
>>18452465Did the mandate of heaven turn every dynastic fall in China into a religious war or are they just soulless bugmen and that explains it?
>>18452478Not always, but it has happened. Yellow Turbans, Red turbans, I was referencing the Taiping. Bah, having apocalyptic conflict that kills millions every once in a while isn't China specific.
>>18452488It may be horrific but one cannot deny that it is incredibly kino
