How would history have changed if the reds lost in the Russian Civil War to the Whites and the Spartacus League won in the German November revolution? In other words how would history change if Germany was the center of communism instead of Russia.
Play Red Flood for a plausible depiction of this.
>>18452391>howdamifino
>>18452391Depends on who comes out on top of the White movement. If it's reactionaries it would be weird because most likely the international finance would be really upset over it and the country would be more isolated than the USSR was(no US famine relief, no Ford building truck industry from the scratch) on the other hand it would also be less dysfunctional om a daily basis, hard to say maybe they'd be able to leverage their resources and population to build a modern diversified economy on their own capital but it would most likely be a very weird polarised society.If the liberals of any sort won it would probably lead to massive economic boom but it would happen under mostly western capital, the elites would slowly drift away to the west since they would be welcome there and so it would resemble moden eastern EU flank where theoretically there's a lot of economic activity going on but the gains from it are spent in Frankfurt or Paris, not in Sofia or Riga. Would get hairy the moment economic crisis would roll in.White SR's probably would repeat idiocies of Bolshevik but because they were always softer they'd probably end up being replaced by liberals in more or less peaceful way.
>>18453702And what happens with Germany?
>>18453702Not the op but thanks for the insightful post anon, would you be able to do an analysis of Germany too? Or is commie Germany too niche to truly predict.
>>18454249It's hard to predict imo. Ultimately the economics would probably be awful still, but the difference is that in a sense if you're looking to centrally plan an economy Germany is far better suited for it than the USSR ever was as there's real scarcity of some resources. At the same time there's no real pressure to show Germany is an advanced economy nao because it already was, so a lot of idiocy of the soviet union where they needed to produce the most steel and the most concrete because that's how people measured industrialisation in the 1910's would happen. Germans wouldn't ever have these sorts of inferiority complexes ruining their economic calculations.At the same time the basic issue in the soviet union was that even if the vanguard was largely jewish and socially liberal, the communists had this idea of uplifting the poor etc. which meant those people were slowly being phased out and replaced with square headed slavs who are a lot more brutish than the jews are(not a bad thing it's just the way they are). This has accelerated especially after the war when suddenly you have a lot of decorated war heroes who use their status as a leverage to get into administration.In Germany the lower classes were likewise more conservative than the vanguard would be, but generally on the spectrum they're little bit more tilted towards the types of sentiment that brought Weimars degeneracy to happen. So you can expect somewhat less chaotic barbarism and gopniks squatting around bottle of vodka in their commie block neighbourhood but also more social decadence.
>>18454635The hypothetical OP posted was if the Spartacus League won who were not Leninists. Leninism would basically not exist as an ideology in this timeline, council communism would be the dominant form of communism in the world.
>>18454652Not necessarily. The Spartacus league was as it was because a lot of people who were disappointed in the bolsheviks took part in it that's problem number one, secondly and this is interesting topic - the German war effort especially when Ludendorff started managing it became a sort of inspiration for not just communists but other movements as well. While I doubt Ludendorff would be held in high regard, the progressive streak in communist thought would most likely recognise his war economy as the next big thing and a framework to use, just as it did elsewhere in the world. Thirdly and most importantly council communism would break down due to the iron law of oligarchy, the law that was formed by studying German socialist organisations. It may have kept more local structures around but things like inane centrally setup quotas and dumb X years plans would still be a thing.
>>18452391Even without the spartacus league winning there was a real chance of the red army invading germany at the battle of warsaw in 1920One thing that possibly changes is that communism does become something like ‘ a permanent revolution’ as trotsky said instead of the more state directed version that became the ussr under stalin, also according to some of these timelines surrealism and dadaism become important aspects of practice for communist municipalities
>>18452391Communism is more attractive because the Spartacus people wouldn't do the same atrocities the Bolsheviks did. Real autogestion would have boosted production the same way it did in Spain and this also would attract people. Council communism would be the thing everyone thinks of.However, no way Germany lasts to 1991. The USSR's main strength was its geography. Germany is way easier to invade than Russia. The West would have banded together and crushed Germany, most likely. Germany would have to spread the revolution to as many countries possible before this happened to even have a chance. A white Russia would have just been a giant nothingburger.
