A few years ago all forms of subhumans, particularly Redditors, claimed that Turks were Greeks and that Turkic migrations to Anatolia were not that big.Then qpAdm was invented and it was proven wrong. As a matter of fact, it was proven that Greeks were the ones who were the small minority in Anatolia instead.The end.
How the fuck did "slavs" get to Crete?
>>18453027Why is Konya, the historic capital of the Turks of the Rum Sultanate since the 11th century, apparently the lowest Oghuz scoring Turkish population, especially compared to the Aegean populations, according to this map? Is there any historical documentation that backs this up?
>>18453035They moved into the Balkans when the Romans were busy with the Muzzies, after that, they worked for both the Romans and the Venetians.
>>18453038The size of migration necessary to make 25% of the population have Slavic genetics would be larger than a handful of bureaucrats. Macedonia makes sense, Crete does not.
>>18453042They had orgies where the Greek men would send off their women to the Slavic warriors. The local clergy were against it, and it even got a condemnation from Ecumenical Patriarch Sergius.
>>18453042Don't even bother
>>18453027>>18453036The map also implicates that the formation of such population was way later in the chronology, during the late Middle Ages and early Modern period, rather than the early Seljuk period, as those coastal regions were either fully in Byzantine and Cilician control, or heavily contested during high Middle Ages. The map suggests that the Turcomans, remaining relatively unmixed, migrated to the Aegean Anatolia, most likely when the territory had fallen fully to Beylik or Ottoman control, and only then admixed with the local populations, the admixture decreasing naturally to the east through osmosis. This is if the map is true of course.
>>18453035>>18453042>>18453047>>18453049Yes Slavs did reach Crete.Next question.
>>18453053>Next question.Are you just going to ignore all my effort posts?>>18453036>>18453050
>>18453060Mongol invasion of Anatolia pushed the Turkic tribes of Anatolia into the western parts of Anatolia. Most Turks descend from the 13th century Turkic migrants in Anatolia rather than the Anatolian Seljuk era Turks who arrived in the region in the 11th century.
>>18453066This is very interesting, how then did the Turkish language spread in East and Central Anatolia?
>>18453066Actually Turks have heritage from both groups (11th century migrants and the 13th century migrants), but I suspect the latter had a larger population.
>>18453053>ukrainians are the purest slavslmao
>>18453027>Then qpAdm was inventedit turns out that you can prove anything, so long as you select the right postulates and hope nobody notices
>>18453069Eastern Anatolia was never fully Turkified. It was mostly Kurds settling there. And Armenians etc remained.Inner Anatolia was Turkified in the Seljuk period mostly. There were both Turkic migrants and the local Grecophone Anatolians. They mixed. Then the 13th century migrants arrived and the region was Turkified even more. But Western Anatolia was rapidly Turkified by the migrants who also established Beyliks there (Ottomans being one of them) because they needed their own states against the Byzantines.
>>18453073What about Cilicia and the Black Sea Coast?
>>18453082Cilicia was taken over in the 14th century by the Ramazanids I think.Black Sea is more complicated. Mostly 13th century. But the conquests happened until the 15th century. Regions like Giresun were conquered in the 14th century I think but they have rather high Turkic heritage.
>>18453071The Turkish peoples of mainland Ukraine, the Nogais, were were pushed back by the Cossacks and later repressed and relocated to the Caucasus and Ottoman territory by the Russian Empire.
>>18453093Ah yes, and not a single person had sex with someone from the opposite side during the entire centuries long occupation.
>>18453027Clearly the DNA identified as "Hittite/Luwian" is also Ancient Greek. This is obvious from the chart.
>>18453099The medieval turkic is likely anatolian
>>18453098Well no, not frequently, as they were divided by state, language, and religion. What's more is that the Tartars of the Northern Black Sea region seemed to have a racial preference for their own.
>>18453107That is more likely to be as is claimed. There are clear markers for Turkic and Slavic. Greek and Ancient Anatolia would be very, very similar though. Greeks and Anatolians were from the beginning brother populations. There was never not deep commerce between the two and Anatolia was assimilated into Greece early on.
>>18453099>>18453114Cope harder maybe it'll make it Greek
>>18453109Yes, and the Mongols are famous for never raping anyone. I believe Southern Ukraine had laws forbidding it.
>>18453120What is that infamy rooted in? It is a stereotype, and unfounded when compared with my evidence to the contrary.
>>18453120>>18453122Also you have it mixed up, Southern Ukraine was not traditionally Slavic territory, it was the domain of the Turks since the time of the Huns. Only when the Crimean Khanate was conquered in the 18th century, and the Nogais suppressed and evicted, did Slavic settlers start to cultivate these "wild fields". So it is actually the opposite, the Slavs conquered Turkic land!
>>18453114>There are clear markers for TurkicThere aren't, because the Turkic languages don't map to a coherent underlying population or source. The "Turks" who settled in Anatolia can be traced back to Corded Ware through the Abashevo culture, and have barely any statistical correlation with ANA. Even the heavily ANA populations should receive skepticism that they represent a coherent underlying genetic population given the Chinese own remarks on such people.
>>18453122>What is that infamy rooted in?Holy ESL.
>>18453136That's not relevant.
>>18453149Do you seriously expect me to believe that the Mongols were frequently sacking Ukrainian cities, not least of which Kyiv itself on multiple occasions and not a single one of them ONCE raped a single woman?Come the fuck on.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Kiev_(1240)
>>18453047source on the condemnation?
>>18453156Do you seriously believe a couple war-time rapes hundreds of years ago is enough to make a noticeable difference on a modern people? Do you think Ukrainian Slavs weren't subject to admixing from the north and west for those hundreds of years and remained entirely the same?
>>18453161>a coupleTen thousand Mongols came in, fucked ten thousand women, of those let's be conservative and say 1,000 came to term. You now have 1,000 Mongol/Slav hybrids. Those then have 4 kids, that's 4,000, those then have 4 kids, that's 16,000, etc, etc.You are aware modern Ashkenazi Jews are from a genetic bottleneck after the black death and that millions of Ashkenazi today descend from no more than a thousand Ashkenazi Jews back then.I mean hell, half of fucking Asia is descended from Chingis.
>>18453050Yes that's right I have black relatives, Turk relatives and unknown ethnicity relatives as these were relocated to our village. All three of different lineage as I'm neither black nor unknown ethnicity wise.>Turkoman from that exact area
>>18453167Yes literally every Mongol soldier was a rapist, this is totally verifiable, all evidence to the contrary to this absurd claim is wrong, it is infallible.
>>18453174Okay anon, Mongol hordes didn't rape. Turns out in medieval siege situations consent mattered a lot more than I thought. Thank you for educating me.
>>18453181Damn you're right, a few rapes from the most undisciplined soldiers, in an army where discipline is incredibly important, raping starving women on the verge of death, in a city that was a very small percent of the population of a medieval kingdom, completely altered the genetics of modern Ukraine and no other invader force like the Lithuanians could have altered this because it was magic.
>>18453186See, you're already backpedeling. First it was the Mongols didn't rape, then it was okay they did but they didn't have children, now it's okay they might have had some children but they didn't effect the genetics.I truly don't have the patience for this, can we skip to the part where your position has moved so far from your starting one that you agree with me entirely?
>>18453197You were backpedaling my friend, first you claimed that it was hundreds of years of Mongol rule that altered the genetics (despite the actual science proving otherwise), and now you claim it was a singular spectacular event within a couple hours.
>>18453197>>18453279And no my position never changed, I have stated from the start that idea that a few rapes having a noticeable effect on the modern genetics of Ukraine is absurd in my eyes. So you claim that actually the entire army committed rape, your logic being that it is unlikely that every single Mongol soldier reframed from the act, therefore all of them must have done it. Very strange logic!
>>18453027All this map tells me is that both countries are a bunch of Hittites larping as opposing factions of non-Hittites.
>>18453035Boats?But seriously, a mass scale invasion is not necessary for DNA modeled as "Medieval Slav" to be found on Crete - or elsewhere. It can spread through diffusion too. That's how you end up with this continuum where Slavic DNA gradually diminishes the further south you go.
>>18453167You've got no idea how ancestry works. Most of the children of the hybrids would be quadroons, their children octoroons etc. Unless there's a factor that favours this mixed over the rest, there's no reason to assume such small population wouldn't be assimilated in a matter of generations, making the genetic evidence barely traceable today. You need to stop gooning to rape fantasies.
>>18453740>>18453035Wasn't Crete known as a hot spot in the slave trade?
>proven>by academia>under a mediterranean lensoh man.. lost in the sauce, this one is.
>>18453167>I mean hell, half of fucking Asia is descended from Chingis.This is a lie.First of all, the figure for that Y-DNA test decades ago was 16 million men as direct descendants, which isn't half of Asia or 8% of Asians .16 million was only 8 % of MEN in the former region of the Mongol empire, and 0.5% of all men in the world.Secondly, all of those 16 million men were steppe nomads like Mongols themselves, and the Kazakhs of Kazakhstan and Hazaras of Hazarajat in Afghanistan.The men who had the "Genghis" Y-DNA in China were all ethnic Mongol citizens of China in Inner Mongolia.Han Chinese have completely different Y-DNA, majority subclades of Haplogroup O3, than the "Genghis" Y-DNA C2 star cluster subclade (and there are C2 subclades different from the "Genghis" star cluster one, so other C2 in Han provinces of China aren't Mongol descendants either, Native Americans, Southeast Asians, Ainu all have C2)China has 6,290,204 ethnic Mongols in Inner Mongolia, twice the number of Outer Mongolia's population of 3,296,866.Second, the "Genghis" Y-DNA isn't even proven to belong to Genghis. More recent studies suggest that its the Y-DNA of ordinary Mongol soldiers, who spread it to Kazakhstan and Hazarajat in Afghanistan by settling down and marrying local Turkic and Iranic women.
>>18453027The more you find out about the modern state of Greece the more disappointing it becomes. Complete LARP country on par with zero actual contributions to ANYTHING. I think the reason they always belittle other countries is because of their own insecurities. Absolute joke, such an insult to the actual greeks of ancient times
>>18455187To be fair, it's not their fault for the most part -- it's the Eternal Anglo's Ancient Greek fantasy that laid the foundations of modern Greece.
>weekly turkoalbanian hate thread
>>18455256
>>18453118Definitely doesn't make it albanian, slavic or turkish tho
>>18453156the thing is they either killed the raped woman or took her into slavery, either way the woman and her mixed spawn would be removed from local slavic poolin general war rape survival for mother was low and for kid even lower(often abandoned or snuffed out)
>>18453099nope it's not, it's ancient pre hellenic anatolian>>18455260it makes it not greek
>>18455391definitely more greek than turkomongolic whatever
>>18455187What has your cunt contributed to humanity in the past decade, anon?
