Is religion just a giant cope for people who are terrified of death and live in an unjust world where the wicked thrive and the kind suffer?

>>18454070
When's the last time you masturbated? Remember, lying is a sin.

Essentially, yes. Even if I were to turn atheist I couldn’t answer the question of why living a religious/godly life yields better practical results than just being a coomer. You see proof of this time after time: the hedonist is almost always cynical, depressed, bitter, etc. if they aren’t any of these things, they’re usually too stupid to even self reflect and their life is in shambles a lot of times.

>but I can do all of those things without God!
You can but there is no actual logical explanation on why you should. If life is the meaning you make it (or meaningless), why not enjoy pleasure til the wheels fall off? That’s why I never understand these atheist reddit bros who are all about monogamy, the right things to do, etc. Just fuck different chicks, make money and party.
>b-but it’s le empty!!
And when you ask them what’s empty about it, evntually you circle back to the soul or spirit, which is contradictory to material atheism.

>>18454081
When was your last wank anon? Remember, if you lie to me you are tortured in hell forever.

inb4 raaa baby cancer

>>18454070
Atheism is just the realization that religion is a scam.

>>18454084
Same question as the others anon. When did you last jerk off? Reminder, lying sends you to hell.

>>18454082
Five minutes ago. Now what does that have to do with literally anything? Remember, if you have no argument you’re a faggot

>>18454086
Like a few days ago. I only follow the teachings of Christ, sorry. I don't care for doctrine. The Nicene is above you.

>>18454089
>>18454090
You are so fucked :)

>>18454091
Why? Because I don't like Zutthammad?

>>18454091
>no argument
Kek the heckin based atheists just cannot stop losing, huh?

>>18454093
>>18454095
You're going to scream and scream and scream "I'm sorry Jesus I'm sorry!!!" but hell is forever and He will laugh as he dunks your head back under the lava f:)

>>18454097
Under what reasoning? Jesus said zero words casting dissent on masturbation, but he did on adulterous lust.

>>18454070
God just doesn't exist.

>>18454105
Those flames just got hotter, cockroach :)

>>18454114
Oh, how scholarly and thoughtful.

>>18454118
You're so fucked :)

>>18454070
you're thinking of catholicism

>>18454121
There's a man opening the screen door in your backyard. If you hurry, you can see him!

>>18454081
>You can but there is no actual logical explanation on why you should. If life is the meaning you make it (or meaningless), why not enjoy pleasure til the wheels fall off?
You already answered that yourself. Because it will make you "cynical, depressed, bitter, etc." - since those things are not pleasant, a skillful hedonist will avoid them.
No matter how hard you try, you can't make an argument against hedonism that appeals to unpleasant outcomes. It will never work because the argument itself will always argue for hedonism.

>>18454070
I am a masturbating homosexual and I am not atheist.

>>18454128
AIDS. HIV. Syphilis. Gonorrhea. Oral herpes. Meningitis. Lung cancer. Bleeding in ejaculation. Infertility, thus death of material legacy. Profane social death. But the tip of the iceberg.

>>18454126
You're going to scream and scream and I'll be in heaven next to Jesus. We'll be laughing at you :)

>>18454134
Well, you don't believe in Jesus, anon.

>>18454139
Those flames just got hotter :)

>>18454143
What if you had breakfast this morning?

>>18454133
That's an appeal to hedonism too. As I said, an argument of this sort which doesn't ultimately appeal to hedonism can't be constructed.

>>18454144
You are so fucked :)

>>18454145
How are those appeals to hedonism? They are some of its intensely self-destructive consequences. In no way does that "appeal towards hedonism." Stop trying to play semantic games with people and make better efforts to simply speak honestly about your moral basis.

>>18454147
Okay, but how would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?

>>18454154
You are going to burn and burn and burn. Forever :)

>>18454150
Those things are extremely unpleasant, so you obviously shouldn't do shit that leads to them. "Hedonism" isn't defined as doing shit Christians say is bad, or as shooting up heroin while having anal sex. It's simply a moral philosophy oriented towards pleasure. If you'd actually read any hedonist writings, you'd know hedonists have historically advocated for avoiding excesses because those lead to intense displeasure or pain.

>>18454158
It's materialism and rejection of God. Hedonism is egoism and self-veneration. Inevitably, this leads time and again to self-destruction. Sure you can get roided and fuck bitches. But you will likely have complex health issues for the rest of your life because of this. You don't specifically need religion to understand this. It is simply put that religion is better for simple people, because myth gives the simple something to adhere to. The lesser need a shepherd, and material pleasures give only temporary positivity for countless trade-offs. As well, there are the seven Hermetic principles, which no one can reasonably deny.

>>18454081
But it doesn't, though. That's a false frame created specifically to tell the story you are telling. You are comparing an abstract ideal with the crude reality of how people live. Christians (the godly ones anyway) as they actually exist (and not in Crusty Kang's holy spirit wonderland) rarely ever correspond to that ideal. As the testimonials of ex-christians can attest to.
>>18454133
Masturbation wont lead to any of those, thoughie.

>>18454128
>since those things are not pleasant, a skillful hedonist will avoid them
Unless you desensitize yourself (in which case I would argue that’s just a form of apathy, hence what many people would call a negative outcome), how do you avoid this? Even further, just because a few hedonists are able to reach enlightenment and not let unrelenting pleasure chip away at the soul, that doesn’t most humans are equipped for it.

>>18454128
Btw, I think there is a logical answer against hedonism. What I’m getting at is that it’s only a logical answer if you think these outcomes are bad, which already attaches a moral premise and is one that most people don’t care to ruminate on.

>>18454189
Bad end of ethics: everyone turned out to be a consequentialist.

>>18454179
What abstract ideal? That hedonism will eventually lead to despair, emptiness, etc? I just pointed out that there are plenty of examples of people just living for their carnal selves and how they end up. You might have to clear this up because I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

The ultimate point I’m making is that there really is no reason as an atheist to not just live your life for pleasure because there’s no logical ought that tells you you shouldn’t. Like how do you refute this as a materialist: we’re here for a few decades so let’s just fuck and do drugs while it lasts.

You can say: it objectively makes you miserable. Okay. what if the person doesn’t care that it will make them miserable (which is most people, btw)? Then what? If they don’t believe it’s objective then your logical consequences means jackshit. If we die at the end, there’s really no logical ought to take care of yourself or leave a legacy because you won’t even be here eventually.

Can someone please offer advice to a Christian who is struggling with masturbation and porn?

>>18454073
>Is religion just a giant cope for people who are terrified of death
Why would I be terrified of death when the soul is eternal, libtard?

>>18454070
What I'm reading here is that the only thing stopping you from masturbating and being gay is being religious.

>>18454085
>falls for the GDP and techno-optimism religion instead

>>18454070
This assumes there aren't other religions that don't really have a stance, or a negative one, on masturbation. There are hundreds of millions that believe in such religions today, and there were billions in the past. Christianity's largest opponents used to be heathens, you know.

>>18454282
>There were BILLIONS of religions that told me to goon!
Why do atheshits lie and exaggerate?

>>18454283
Billions of people, not religions, not that sir troll is interested, but for anyone else reading, there are a lot of Hindus and Buddhists today.

>>18454169
>Sure you can get roided and fuck bitches.
You shouldn't do that if you're a hedonist because it leads to lots of unpleasant suffering. Epicurus is the ur-hedonist and he literally argues that the greatest and most important pleasure is not being subject to suffering.
This is the problem with you Christians. Your pastor gives you some insane strawman version of a school of thought and you end up completely unprepared to argue against the real thing.

Which Religion and God is correct?

>>18454394
>Epicurus is the ur-hedonist and he literally argues that the greatest and most important pleasure is not being subject to suffering.
That's dumb and tautological. You may as well say death is the ultimate form of bliss from this same exact standard.

>>18454400
I'm actually not going to argue against anything you just said because it's utterly irrelevant. The bottom line is that you're arguing against a strawman version of hedonism because actual hedonist philosophers claim that it's essential to avoid suffering (ergo a hedonist shouldn't snort coke off a hooker's ass).
Yep, your pastor didn't prepare you for that.

>>18454403
It doesn't matter what Epicurus says because he offers no solutions to the problem of suffering.

>>18454412
See how you pivoted from the original claim? That's a classic. I could respond to what you just said but I won't because it's irrelevant to the discussion around the claim that hedonism is bad because it leads to aids and shit.

>>18454415
I don't care what tranny philosophers like Epicurus thinks because Schopenhauer already refuted him.

>>18454412
>he offers no solutions to the problem of suffering
He does, his solution is "try to reduce suffering", hope that helps.

>>18454418
Schopey literally agrees with Epicurus on ataraxia, his main disagreements were metaphysical, but in terms of negative hedonism his view was basically but same but being grumpy and hating foids.

>>18454418
See how you're trying to pivot again? It's because you got btfo on the original point because your pastor lied to you about hedonism.

>>18454394
Hedonism can only be defined truly by superfluous acts of self-pleasure. Any other definition could not be sufficient, no matter the false pretense applied (like assuming I'm simply some kind of dogmatic Christian). In truth, all superfluous acts of self-pleasure have mental, physical, or social trades. You CAN deny the truth of the Principle of Correspondence all you like. It will never go away, though, and all your hedonistic selfish acts will be paid for in due exchange through the inevitable equalization process the universe must physically take. Do you believe thoughts are separate from matter? Or abstract acts are not acted out, simply because of the ways in which they are described? Every action and consideration you have is traded for equal response. That is the way of things, and you cannot escape this by simply lying to yourself and not caring. That is how hedonists guise themselves towards self-destruction in the first place. It may surprise you, but I am actually a Rosicrucian and a Taoist. You are ironically more simplistic in your approach to thinking than I. Consider these things, sir. They are wholly important to your being.

>>18455823
Your whole point is that you can only argue against a weird strawman version of hedonism that your pastor talked about because you can't think of how to argue against actual hedonism as it has been presented by hedonist philosophers for thousands of years.
You're going in circles.

>>18454070
I just don't believe in your faith

>>18455823
>Hedonism can only be defined truly by superfluous acts of self-pleasure
Nope. Negative hedonism emphasizes "minimize suffering" first.

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>>18454070
>God exists
Okey
>God created first humans, had a human son, had prophets, talked to ancient jews etc
No, that's bullshit.

>>18455890
God you're such a dumbass you can't even consider such a basic post. You don't know what a strawman is, champ.

>>18456016
Suffering comes regardless, because the actions are baseless, selfish, and superficial.

>>18456161
>take care of your health to not get sick
>suffer because that's "selfish"
kek

>>18456168
that's not hedonism. this is why you had to completely avoid the other post, because you can't actually dismantle that definition of hedonism. there are of course nuances to what is deemed technically selfish action, but all you are clearly doing is playing a cowardly game of pussyfooting around your selfish mentality and equating it to obvious non-issues so as to avoid the self-acceptance that you're a victim of your own stupidity. the semantic excuses you make don't excuse things like the fact that it's dead obvious the only reason anyone would make such an argument in favor of hedonistic thinking to such a degree would be because they are excusing profane actions they themselves commit. this kind of thinking reminds me acutely of meth heads, and people who get arrested for disgusting shit. right your actions and find a moral center, and stop being such a hypocritical pussy. it only affects you, moron.

>masturbators
"Better to cast your seed in the belly of a whore than spill it on the ground" then?

>>18456191
Does hedonism need necessarily be profane?

>>18456191
>that's not hedonism
It is if I simply don't accept your strawman. Hedonism simply classifies experiences as either negative or positive, and argues that one ought to maximize positive ones while minimizing negative ones. With the hierarchy depending on whether it's negative hedonism.

>>18454070
No, I just don't believe your deity claims.