How do you argue against eugenics without being a moralfaggot? Because this pic is literally exactly how it happens. In 2026, South Asians and Africans comprise half the world's population. If aliens observed the Earth today, they would have the impression humanity is short, brown, and living in mud huts. The builders of Rome, the Autobahn, and the Eiffel Tower are marginal in population.All because people value morality over progress. The strong taking other people's resources is imperialism; the weak doing it is charity. People will rather have their descendants live in Neu Afrika because they think it's wrong to break a few eggs right now.Dull & Primitive.
>>18458388>eugenics is when you let a bunch of genetic diseases and negative factors slip by just for the sake of everyone being whiteRetards like you singlehandedly sabotaged the public's opinion of eugenics.
>>18458388>How do you argue against eugenics without being a moralfaggot?By problematizing the framework used by eugenics and showing its founded on false premises, does not actually follow the scientific method, is dogmatic, ideologically inconsistent. Alternatively you can go and show how it fails to accomplish what it tries to do, how it produces undesirable second/third order effects, and other such aveneus.That's how. Of course we live in a squarely post-eugenics world so it's now a given that everyone thinks eugenics is bad. It's a dogma of its own now. >The builders of Rome, the Autobahn, and the Eiffel TowerLaughable achievement list btw. There are vastly more interesting things to mention. And most aren't even buildings. Regardless, you are actually making a Moralfag argument for Eugenics, here. You just don't realize it. >>18458395WW2 doomed Eugenics. It was under attack from other places but what really sealed their faith was being so closely tied to the trauma of WW2. Eugenics&Race Science is to RWers what Lamarckian inheritance&Blankslateism is to Communists. They just won't let it go.
>>18458388I suppose the main issue I have with eugenics, at least in the form I have seen advocated by yourself and others, is that it seems to be more concerned with issues of culture and heritage than on eradicating heritable diseases or improving human health/function. I've been exposed to some historical - and contemporary - eugenicist literature over the years through this site, and it basically always meanders into talking about racial character or moral fiber or whatever the fuck.Also, considering advances in technology that have been made in the last eighty years, the methods advocated for by old-school eugenicists are obsolescent at best and morally indefensible at worst.
>>18458469>with issues of culture and heritageWhat's so bad about that? What's bad about making your nation pure from african, arab and indian genes?
We already practice eugenics though. If you die childless because you were too distracted gooning to porn or are too big of a loser to be able to support yourself and a family, then your bloodline is already (rightfully) taken out of the gene pool. Eugenics is just evolution but instead of the goal of evolution which is just survival of the fittest, it's instead the goal of some authoritarian with their own personal interests that may not even result in wholly desirable genes because they don't consider potential consequences of breeding a population that's just there to carry on a specific culture and nothing else.
>>184583951. Eugenics would include screening for genetic diseases to remove them from the genepool. Your scenario is basically eugenics performed incompetently, which is obviously something that was planted into your head by someone else, because if you thought about it you'd realise the fallacy of it.2. Even inbreeding, if used intelligently can play part in it. Anthony Ludovici used to talk about it - inbreeding/endogamy allows for selection of recessive genes. This is why Habsburgs reached some insane degrees of inbreeding before birthing the ultimate retards, while mere cousin marriage among middle easterners leads to them topping the charts of genetic diseases - one of these came from a people who went through a population bottleneck at some point(which is why blonde hair and coloured eyes are relatively common among them today - significant amount of recessive gene carriers) and went through selection on the recessive genes while the other live in the crossroads of the world, where for every cousin marriage there were 5 female slaves from all over the world impregnated by poor farmers for whom there were no free women left
>>18458474Mostly the part wherein purity doesn't actually improve human health or performance? I was under the impression that the ostensible goal of eugenics was to do exactly that. Which isn't to say human populations have no differences, but all nations are essentially wild strains with myriad boons and banes blended inconsistently within their members. Foreigners will not always be a detriment to include in the gene pool, and not all of your countrymen are necessarily the healthiest specimens themselves.
>>18458480You're an absolute sputtering retard. First of all, you're referring to natural selection. Eugenics necessitates human interference in natural selection. They are distinct terms. Second of all, the traits selected for naturally are not necessarily the ones humans want in order for a society to prosper to its fullest potential. Hence why a 60 IQ tard with downs might be able to rape a woman and breed, producing a retarded mutt shitbaby, whereas a 150 IQ megamind may choose to seclude himself because he's tired of dealing with retards. I'm sure even a dumb fuck like yourself must be able to recognize that a society of people with 150 IQ would be absolutely dominant in every possible way over a society of low IQ subhumans who can't figure out how to wipe their asses, no? That's a bigger gap than between humans and chimps.
>>18458511Humanities best interest should be in continuing their own existence. Natural selection does a better job at this than eugenics do. >They'll all be mutt shitbabies!This is just fearmongering. This is why eugenics will never work.
>>18458511If being 150 IQ drives you to suicide, then it's not a good trait for humans to have!
>>18458480We also practice active dysgenics by paying losers to have children. For most of history, the children of a single mother and a delinquent, deadbeat father would have died from starvation or at least malnutrition. Now they're kept alive.
>>18458469That was part of the objective. Back then Moral Character was commonly thought to be heritable. Though the point is fair, the objectives of Eugenics were very subjective. Better genes, sure but what that means was by no means a concensus. And often times it's just a flimsy cover to some other impulses unrelated to the actual improvement of the human race. It was a big criticism levied at Actually Existing Eugenics so it is somewhat ironic that it has become the essence of Nugenics. As for future methods. Yeah those are vastly more efficient than the fantasies of mass sterilization and Lebensborn (and not hopelessly radioactive, to boot). But I doubt our Nugenicists would like the direction the technology is going right now. That said the screechers are correct it's basically eugenics, though not an orthodox form of it, I like it thoughie.>>18458511>a society of people with 150 IQ would be absolutely dominant in every possible way over a society of low IQ subhumansIt's not a given. People of your persuasion know that, cansidering all their concerns for rising tides of color, great replacements, and whatsuch.
>without being a moralfaggot
>>18458540Implicitly conceding it's absolutely not morally defensible and attempting to make a pseudo-moral defense of it anyway was a masterstroke.
>>18458538>Moral Character was commonly thought to be heritableIt is. Twofold at that, genetically and culturally.
>>18458549In a much more complex way than the positivistic nonsense envisioned by Actually Existing Eugenics in the early twentieth century, at the very least.
>>18458557And for the record, yes, I did make up Actually Existing Eugenics as a term on the spot to talk about Eugenics as actually practiced and taught during its heyday.
>>18458564>We did it stupidly back then so now we can never do it intelligently
>>18458388If you just select for intellect or ability to create prosperous societies, a true eugenics program would castrate Europeans and everyone would be chinese.
>>18458591The difference in IQ between chinese and europeans is so small, a single generation of eugenics could bring europeans up to the same level.
>>18458598That's the funny thing. We could keep the ratio between races and ethnicities intact, every one would just have to do eugenics on their own. Wakanda could be real if black africans practiced eugenics for a few generations (and matter of fact, I think current conditions on much of africa are already eugenic).
>>18458520>Humanities best interest should be in continuing their own existencenot very ambitious are you? Humanity will always exist in some form, the domination over the rest of nature is too great. The question is in what state humanity will be in the future and what we can achieve being self concious about evolution and selection because we are the first and only life form that is. Frankly I don't like the word 'humanity' as it puts too much diversity into one basket. Some populations haven't evolved naturally in over 10,000 years and are probably an evolutionary dead end. It would be necessary in the future to distinguish between populations of genetic worth and such without
>>18458664AI might replace us. And even if eugenics was capable of preventing that, it's too late.
>try eugenics>end up with some unintended negative side effects down the road>the human race is now fucked forever
If you support eugenics.Do you support the state replacing ugly women with the eggs of super models or just generally beautiful women?After a few generations you'd have more beautiful women around.
>>18458577I never said that. I'm just making the distinction to pre-empt objections based on forms of Eugenics that were never practiced. And regardless, an intelligently applied eugenics would likely:>Leave most of AEE's content behind>Still suffer from the core philosophical, ideological, and organizational problems AEE did. You could easily make an argument for intelligence maximization but atp this is an argument for AGI and not Eugenics.>>18458602Eugenics =/= natural selection. Galton originally intended Eugenics to be a gentler alternative natural selection, actually.
>>18458702>Eugenics =/= natural selectionNothing is "natural" about the modern world anyway.Also as I understand it, eugenics is anything related to actively improving the genetic makeup. Gently influencing reproduction patterns already counts.>intelligence maximization but atp this is an argument for AGI and not EugenicsI want humans to be intelligent (and nonviolent, and nonaddicted, and all that) because I want humans to have happier and safer lives. Not because intelligence is a value in itself.But AI researchers think it is. And if they succeed, they will replace us all, and in time no humans will exist whatsoever.
>>18458395Where'd you get that idea from? Whites both in America then Europe were euthanised in large numbers. Quality of your own population is critical in racial nationalism.
>>18458702>intelligence maximizationHigh intelligence is overrated. Yes, humanity did get where it is now due to its intelligence compared to animals, but today, above-average intelligence is mostly just associated with high anxiety and overthinking shit. We probably don't need more high-intelligence people, in fact, it would probably lead to more instability. We just need people who are more conscienscious and have good impulse control.
>>18458689This, it's like state enforced incest
>>18458388>How do you argue against eugenics without being a moralfaggot?Read the Revolutionary Phenotype by JF Gariepy. Genetic engineering, specifically editing that embeds itself in the germ line, will cause the end of, not only humanity, but all DNA-based life. DNA will cease to be the genetic unit that undergoes selection; instead, the computer models/blueprints for DNA edits will start undergoing selection, leading to the complete enslavement of DNA-based life, exactly how RNA is enslaved by DNA. The engineered humans, engineered to have higher IQ, be healthier, live longer, and reproduce more, will outcompete all humans for resources, and will act not to reproduce themselves, but to reproduce their blueprint, until all biomass is enslaved.
>>18458731Imagine a future where humanity decides to hereditarily edit its own DNA, creating people engineered in a laboratory to be smarter, stronger, more beautiful, and more fertile. At first, this seems like a victory: diseases disappear, life expectancy increases, and new generations far surpass the limits of natural biology. But little by little, this advancement ceases to be merely an improvement. Natural humans become inferior in almost every aspect, losing social, economic, and even reproductive power. Evolutionary competition, which was once between flesh-and-blood individuals, shifts to the digital blueprints that shape these new versions of the species.As each government, company, or laboratory creates its own lineage of humans, a genetic race emerges. Engineered versions begin to replace previous ones, just as artificial human software is replaced by newer models. What matters is no longer life itself, but which design can reproduce fastest and occupy the most space. Real humans cease to be subjects of evolution and become tools for the propagation of an external code that defines and controls them.Over time, not even scientists are in control anymore. The very algorithms that generate new designs begin to optimize the characteristics that ensure greater reproduction, without any regard for ethics or dignity. Life ceases to have intrinsic value: each being is merely a disposable body created to serve the cycle of blueprint updates. The notion of person, individual, or humanity dissolves, replaced by an impersonal system of engineering.In the end, natural DNA is crushed and completely loses its autonomy. Just as, in the past, RNA ceased to be independent and became a mere auxiliary to DNA, now DNA would be enslaved by digital designs. There would be no more natural evolution, only organisms designed to obey the code.
>>18458710By natural selection I just mean how things would have gone without explicit intervention. And anyway I don't know what do you mean by gently influencing reproduction patterns unless you mean, idk, contraceptives and circumcision.Can you prove intelligence (and non-violence, non-addiction) actually leads to desirable outcomes? The reason why the Landian intelligence maxxing thing works is because it reasonably circumvents the Is/ought gap.>>18458731>JF 'Pommes de Terre' GariepyMacaquinho... I thought you were better than this.
>>18458737>how things would have gone without explicit interventionFalse dichotomy. Modern society constantly intervents in a genetically relevant ways. That there's no intention to influence genetics doesn't change that it does.>>18458534>gently influencing reproduction patternsLike, pay the unsuccessful to not have children. Pay the successful to do so (or reward them in other ways, like social recognition.)>Can you prove intelligence (and non-violence, non-addiction) actually leads to desirable outcomes? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/Intelligence is not the be all end all to what is desirable, but it is part of it.
>>18458733So just practice Negative Eugenics where you sort out the bad, rather than promulgate the good. Get rid of downies and schizos. Let humanity determine everything from there.
>>18458737A white nationalist who kidnapped and had sex with a mentally retarded Mexican girl and thinks that gene editing will eventually result in human extinction isn't so strange when you know that one of the most radical eugenicists was also anti-Nazi, hue.>Frederick Lindemann supported eugenics, held the working class, homosexuals, and black people in contempt, and supported sterilisation of the mentally incompetent. He believed – Mukerjee concludes, referring to Lindemann's lecture on Eugenics – that Science could yield a race of humans blessed with 'the mental make-up of the worker bee' ... At the lower end of the race and class spectrum, one could remove the ability to suffer or to feel ambition... Instead of subscribing to what he called 'the fetish of equality', Lindemann recommended that human differences should be accepted and indeed enhanced by means of science. It was no longer necessary, he wrote, to wait for 'the haphazard process of natural selection to ensure that the slow and heavy mind gravitates to the lowest form of activity'>Lindemann has been described as having "an almost pathological hatred for Nazi Germany, and an almost medieval desire for revenge was a part of his character">He was involved in the development of radar and infra-red guidance systems. He was sceptical of the first reports of the enemy's V-weapons programme. He pressed the case for the strategic area bombing of cities>Lindemann abiding influence on Churchill stemmed from close personal friendship, as a member of the latter's country-house set. In Churchill's second government, he was given a seat in the cabinet, and later created Viscount Cherwell of Oxford
>>18458747>MexicanI'm pretty sure she was Quebecois.And yes, Aristocrats hating the Nazis is a well known phenomenon.
>>18458520Anti racists of today are more eugenicist than racists. WW2 caused everything to get inverted. No one is more obsessed with IQ and stupid people breeding than progressives. Eugenics was and is a progressive idea. The mainstream narrative obfuscates how socialist and eugenicist people were 100 years ago. It all gets pinned on Nazis. The rhetoric is basically the same, it's just that people fall for the modern progressive trap because they pay lip service to "minorities."
>>18458738>False dichotomy. Modern society constantly intervents in a genetically relevant ways. That there's no intention to influence genetics doesn't change that it does.I agree. That's no eugenics however. By that definition Humans literally cannot exist in a state of nature. As even the most primitive societies are exerting influence on the individuals that form part of it.
>>18458753The point is not that everything is eugenics, the point is that we shouldn't be that afraid of it. We're not doing something we've never done before, we're doing something we're doing already, just in an intentional manner.
>>18458747Lindemann was half German born in Germany btw.>Lindemann was the second of three sons of Adolph Friedrich Lindemann, who had emigrated to the United Kingdom circa 1871 and became naturalised. Frederick was born in Baden-Baden in Germany, where his American mother Olga Noble, the widow of a wealthy banker, was taking "the cure">Adolph was born in the Palatinate, Germany, to a Roman Catholic family established in Alsace-Lorraine under the Comte de Lindemann, who had married into the Cyprien-Fabre shipping family. Lindemann married Olga Noble (1851 – c. 1927), herself heiress to a wealthy New London, Connecticut, engineering family of British origin, and the widow of a banker named Davidson by whom she had produced three children. Olga was reputedly "vivacious and beautiful">Dehousing was a military strategy adopted by the United Kingdom against Nazi Germany during World War II from 1942 to 1945. It sought to maximize the damage to civilian housing in Germany's largest cities during Royal Air Force raids as part of a demoralisation campaign against the German public>The Dehousing strategy was proposed via a memorandum on 30 March 1942, by Professor Frederick Lindemann, Baron Cherwell, the British government's chief scientific adviser who believed that this strategy would allow them to avoid an invasion of Europe. Documentation on the strategy based on the effects of the Area bombing directive issued in February 1942, after it was accepted by the Churchill War Cabinet, became known as the dehousing paperHe was to Germany what Tiberius Julius Alexander was to Jerusalem.
>>18458395>eugenics is when you disregard the most crucial element of eugenics?????
>>18458749>JF got married for the first time in 2002, when he was just 18. That marriage ended 4 years later. According to JF it ended because "I wanted a family, and she wasn't into it. She left -- she lost interest in me. Also, I didn't know how to satisfy a woman, and I was getting fat.">JF was married for the second time to a girl named Emily, and it was apparently the Canadian equivalent of a green card marriage, because Emily was French. This marriage appears to have happened very soon after his first divorce, and lasted around 10 years. The last few years of it would have been when JF moved to North Carolina, while his wife was still in Canada. According to JF, that was the reason for the divorce: "Because the distance was too much. We were not so close about staying together. She lost interest.">Ms. Jacqueline S. Castellanos has been brought back to Texas by Gariepy against her will using an ex parte order obtained by her mother, and despite now being cut from most of her communication means by her parents, has stated through email that she is currently worried for her safety and the safety of her pregnancy at her parent’s house>Jacqueline is diagnosed with Pervasive Development Disorder and Low Average Intellectual Functioning... She was able to subtract 7 from 100, but did it very slowly as if counting her fingers.. She also seemed upset when I asked her to subtract 7 from the answer she would get. I asked her to spell Houston for me and she was able to do it forward but had difficulty doing it backwards. Later during the interview she suddenly tried to spell Houston backwards for me again.. I asked her how she was planning to take care of herself in North Carolina and she responded that she and Jean Francois were going to work on a cooking show... Jacqueline was diagnosed with a speech impediment
>>18458520>Muh natural selectionThe Irish Elk went extinct because their species prioritised aesthetics over survival.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0o3_TqGS6Vc&t=29s
Point to how useless and retarded farm animals are compared to their wild counterparts.
>>18458388These visiting aliens would no doubt be far superior to us. Most aryans can't even remember a 20 digit number after reading it once and those that can generally have autism and a host of other problems. Even the best humans are primitive beings. Likewise there may be other aliens superior to these visiting aliens, and more aliens superior to them in turn. Are we all to curb stomp every being we encounter that is weaker and stupid than ourselves? Should we sacrifice babies to Moloch like some demonic entity?When does it end?I differ from reddit in that I accept that, on average, black people are less intelligent than white people, but we are still conscious beings. Many of the traits you despise among these groups like higher violent crime are in fact the strong hurting the weak.You have to draw the line somewhere. Though I agree another line needs to be drawn, to prevent overpopulating low IQ people overwhelming high IQ groups. Which we may see in our lifetimes, there will be a general collapse of the economy and billions of "climate refugees", the modern age of prosperity will end.As for eugenics, we should just use genetic modification, it's easier and more effective. Future superhumans may in fact be dark skinned since we can insert the gene to produce vitamin D without needing UV light.
>>18458388It makes women happy and making women miserable is actually a good thing.
>>18458695Well none of them will have sex with me so it doesn't matter
>>18458546I wholesale reject morality and made no attempt at substituting my own version of morality at any point.>>18458747>>18458770It's why I find it hard to empathise too much with Britain nowadays. About the "Asian" rape gangs and all. Fight tooth and nail against your own blood, then do nothing when it's brownies en masse.>>18458749Because the previous aristocrats were Christcuck bourgeois. National Socialism called for A New Nobility of Blood and Soil. One built upon blood and nation, not semitism and money.>>18458751The Third Reich was Third Positionist. It wasn't conservative, nor progressive (in the current sense). I am too, as I hate and reject both liberalism and conservatism (which I see minute difference).>>18458822Women are malleable. They'll like and hate whatever is told of them to like and hate.
>>18458841If that's what you believe. I fear you may not know what morality is. Amoralism is indifference, which you definitely don't display.> National Socialism called for A New Nobility of Blood and Soil.They kicked Darré to the curb because he was incompetent and too much of a theorycel.
>>18458528>shoots you> “heh should have evolved bulletproof skin”
>>18458730>>18458689>we should entrust it to trashy women instead!
>>18458747>>18458774>NOOOO SHES TOO STUPID TO HAVE SEXIs she still allowed to vote?
There’s no argument against eugenics in principle.>it could be badAnything can be bad.There’s literally nothing wrong with the state tipping the scales slightly to have less absentee fathers and more kids born to strong families.Welfare is a form of eugenics, and it’s selecting for derelict niggers.
>>18458395I think OP is just applying eugenics on two different levels: intra-population health and global population balance.As for the latter, it's perfectly true that Western medical and agricultural innovations (like vaccines, antibiotics and artificial fertilizer) have allowed the population of the 'Global South' to grow far beyond its natural limits post-1950, and that this is already causing major social and environmental instability across areas like East Africa, Central Africa, the Middle East and South Asia. It's also perfectly fair to say that these growing populations in Africa, the Middle East and South Asia are characterized by a lack of ability to innovate technologically, by high levels of kinship corruption and by a markedly lower general intelligence than those in Europe, America or East Asia. Taken together, those two things are bound to affect the future course of all mankind; how could they not?
>>18458458>Of course we live in a squarely post-eugenics world so it's now a given that everyone thinks eugenics is bad.Ah, but do we? And do they? It's an infected term, but it's a term by which we actually increasingly live, but we brand it slightly differently. The population of children with Down's Syndrome is falling because of selective abortion; this is eugenics by another name. There is a small but growing embryo selection industry, used primarily by the rich and powerful; this is eugenics by another name. At the same time, medical research is increasingly comfortable again with heriditary, genetic-deterministic reasoning; this was always the theoretical framework behind eugenics, and it is re-emerging.The difficulty, I think, is that people practice eugenics on the individual level, which means the difference between the global 'upper crust' (which is highly eugenic in its behavior at this point) and the rest of the human population (which is mildly dysgenic in its behavior) will only grow further. As Sam Hyde put it in his famous '2070 Paradigm Shift' skit:>Most of the major cities will be replaced with vast pleasure domes, used exclusively by the excelceites — who are the neo-upper-class — while the displaced hordes of lower-class depth-grobblers will live underground in tiered cities, endlessly toiling away for nuggets of neo-plasmin.
>>18458388>eugenicsit works for plants & animalsand it will be forced onto humans soon enough
>>18458480The other way around, we're basically having dysgenics right now because low IQ retards in the Third World are the ones who breed the most. Sex itself is also the domain of retards, basically
>>18459144> At the same time, medical research is increasingly comfortable again with heriditary, genetic-deterministic reasoning; Bah, the idea that it was ever uncomfortable with it is debatable at best. Hereditarians were never ostracized from the sciences. There's a bigger taboo against admiting incest wasn't universally despised by all human societies than about hereditarianism and genetic determinism.>The difficulty, I think, is that people practice eugenics on the individual level, which means the difference between the global 'upper crust' (which is highly eugenic in its behavior at this point) and the rest of the human population (which is mildly dysgenic in its behavior) will only grow further.Or Gattaca, for short. And anyway, one could argue the way Silicon Valley tech people go about their New Eugenics is an example against eugenics. And one can easily question how truly eugenic their behaviour is.
>>18458841>I wholesale reject morality
>>18460220The morality of tolerance and accommodation for the downtrodden is what lead to that thing existence, xir.
>>18460243there's nothing wrong with people changing gendersscience moves oneven if your "logic" doesn't like it
>>18458534Like the grain dole and church run charities you mean?
>>18458388You are hampered by your crude understanding of both morality and eugenics.Eugenics doesn't have to mean being an edgelord. It can mean basic measures like encouraging births from highly-accomplished couples, incentives for the cultivation of desirable traits, etc. None of this is immoral.
>>18460244Then why'd you try insulting me with it?>>18460254I advocate for Negative Eugenics. I think breeding programs are weird, but I do support euthanising and sterilising the dysfunctional. I've seen first-hand how much of a resource drain they are.
>>18460189Link?
>>18460270"Dysfunctional" people like those with ADHD and high functioning autism spectrum disorder, bipolar disorder, depression, OCD etc include some of the most critical people in society..
I mean if i was part of the rulling class id encourage eugenics to breed better slaves and sex slaves.The ugly and cheap ones should be out of sight doing stuff i dont care about.The same is for genetic engineering it should serve to make better slaves i can use as tools.If elfs existed theyd be turned into sex slaves for human elites.Any subhuman can use a rifle and kill the most ubermensch of men today, so there is no problem if they rebells either just send in my retards with guns to rape them
Tbf a retarded white downie is worth more than the most accomplished black doctor.Its always been about the color of your skin.I cant stand to see blacks and browns, meanwhile White retards are wholesome and deserve help.
>>18458388By defining negative traits and how they're inherited first.
>>18458388>without being a moralfaggot?can't argue for or against anything if you rule that out
