>[636b] So these common meals…and these gymnasia, while they are at present beneficial to the States in many other respects, yet in the event of civil strife they prove dangerous… and, moreover, this institution, when of old standing, is thought to have corrupted the pleasures of love which are natural not to men only but also natural to beasts (κατὰ φύσιν). For this your States are held primarily responsible, and along with them all others [636c] that especially encourage the use of gymnasia… one certainly should not fail to observe that when male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature (τῇ …φύσει), but contrary to nature (παρὰ φύσιν) when male mates with male or female with female, and that those first guilty of such enormities were impelled by their slavery to pleasure. And we all accuse the Cretans of concocting the story about Ganymede. [636d] Because it was the belief that they derived their laws from Zeus, they added on this story about Zeus in order that they might be following his example in enjoying this pleasure as well (trans. R.G. Bury, LCL).Dont realy understand why faggots try to pass Plato(a noble philosopher) as one of their ownNicomachean Ethics VII.5, 1148b>and in addition to these pederasty [or 'the intercourse of males' / ἡ τῶν ἀρρένων συνουσία]; for these arise in some by nature [physei] and in others, as in those who have been the victims of lust from childhood, from habit>Aristotle, Politics Book II, Chapter 7 (1272a 22–26"...and the lawgiver has devised many wise measures to secure the benefit of moderation at table, and the segregation of the women in order that they may not bear many children, for which purpose he instituted association with the male sex [or 'intercourse/relations with males']
>slavely to plesureMeans he wanted to rape kids but restrained himself.
Maybe this is just a joke I don't get but why did you attach a portrait of Joseph Smith to a thread about Plato?
>>18467308Probably because this retarded pederast wrote 50 dialogues about boy love and depicted it with a weird sympathy even if "ultimately" he disapproved of it. I don't understand why his writings weren't burned. Even in the Phaedrus he says faggots are the highest form of life - the best ones never "give in to temptation" but even if they have sex a few times they're still "spiritually superior" to kings, warriors, priests, etc. This philosophy makes no sense to anyone who isn't already a depraved idiot. Why would I need to "resist the temptation". The homosexual problem would probably be nowhere near as bad as it is today without Plato's writings giving it a pedigree of beauty and sophistication
>>18469311I haven't read Laws because frankly I find philosophy boring but it is also worth remembering that in classical athens "pederasty" was not merely a term for wanting to fuck boys, but a specific social practice of aristocratic men taking on young men as joint students/lovers to induct them in to high society that was considered an old fashioned and decadent aristocratic privilege by the time of Plato. As such it is important to remember that a criticism of pederasty is not simply a criticism of homosexuality, but of a social institution that was considered an outdated vestige of a more classist and less equitable time. I'm sure there were ancient hellenic writers who took issue with homosexuality in general, but the modern chud warrior move of presenting criticisms of pederasty as critiques of homosexuality are either misinformed or disingenuous. Of course having not read Laws I can't give a specific opinion on that quote in context, but as you mentioned Plato clearly didn't have a clear anti-homo stance. Likely he just had an anti-aristocratic stance like any good Athenian.
>>18469375>Likely he just had an anti-aristocratic stance like any good Athenian.Plato seems to vacillate between democratic and oligarchic rhetoric. He was a member of the upper classes and members of his family were involved in the Spartan-imposed oligarchy. Socrates came under suspicion for the fact several of his students were involved. Plato also criticises democracy and praises Sparta in his works. It’s hard to tell what the social status of pederasty was. Several speakers in the Symposium associate it with democracy (and this symbolism is obvious with the statues of lovers and tyrant killers Harmodius and Aristogeiton in Athens and other democracies) and yet at the same time. But you also have lots of oligarchs, elites, etc. venerating it as a traditional, special, aristocratic thing. I think Plato just developed a dislike of sex in general because, like poetry and other powerful stimuli, it unsettles the rational mind. Heterosexual sex is simply necessary for the continuation of the state, whereas homosexual sex can be sublimated
