>>18469872
the state he was fighting against was just that much more unsympathetic

>>18469884
The most prosperous and powerful country in Africa?

>>18469872
Imagine if the situations were reversed, if it was a white majority in Europe being ruled by an imported nigger minority who tortured white children. Would you still seethe about using violence against them? To be honest, even though post-Apartheid SA is a complete shitshow, I really respect the blacks for doing the Truth and Reconciliation process and avoiding taking revenge on former Apartheid war criminals

>>18469885
One built on horrific crimes against humanity and the oppression of a local majority population, yes. And he did it as nonviolently as possible, much more nonviolent than many other freedom movements - which is why he got the peace prize instead of Mugabe

>>18469889
In this hypothetical is Europe a backwards shithole and the imported African state is hyper-competent, prosperous, and powerful?

>>18469891
>One built on horrific crimes against humanity and the oppression of a local majority population
Enough about the Bantu invasions, let's talk about European colonization.

>>18469892
Alright, replace the niggers with Jews. Let's say a backwards European country is ruled over a minority of hypercompetent Jews. The Jews make the whites second class citizens, torture their children in prisons, etc. Are the whites justified in revolting against them? Even if the Jews are raising the GDP and feeding the whites?

>>18469872
He was a "terrorist" because South Africa blocked off and cracked down on all types of legal dissent and protesting. You think writing letters to a regime like that would work? Get real.

>>18469889
>avoiding taking revenge on former Apartheid war criminals
They basically got away with it. The guy who creates the gay detection and forced transitioning in the SA military left to Canada and got arrested for sexually assaulting young men in his practice. So yeah being too forgiving did cause tangible damage.

>>18469895
>um ackshually the blacks were da evil ones!!
Nigger retard tier argument, anybody with eyes can see that the afrikaners and local english were basically bloodthirsty beasts beating up innocent people to hold onto their power

>>18469895
>invasions
Lmao still peddling this croc?

>>18469912
Wait the forced trannification anti-gay doctor was a gay sexual predator? Lmao. I never knew this

>>18469901
Honestly? You're saying like Moldova or somewhere is taken over by Jews and made into a first world country? And if the Jews relinquish control it'll turn into a third world shithole, even worse than current Moldova? I would probably side with the Jews.
>are the whites justified in revolting against them
Depends what you mean by "justified". They might be justified themselves, but from an external perspective you wouldn't side with them. Especially if keeping this regime gave you an alliance with the Jews and a stronger foothold in Eastern Europe. So now we've just reengineered Apartheid.

>>18469921
For pragmatic purposes you might say "okay the apartheid minority should stay in charge" but I don't think you'd judge the subjugated population for using terrorist tactics

>>18469924
I wouldn't give them a fucking Nobel Peace Prize lmao. I wouldn't judge the terrorism per se, but I do think it makes them no better than the ruling regime.

>>18469914
>bloodthirsty beasts
Then why is their murder rate so much lower? They were in power and they did what they had to in order to stay in power as a minority. That involves violence. They also had better infrastructure, better public safety, a better economy, better relations with the West, etc etc etc ad nauseum

>>18469928
Well, I might if they abandoned terrorism for nonviolent civil disobedience and managed to help engineer a peaceful transition to democracy

>>18469931
And what if that "transition to democracy" turned the country into a third world shithole hostile to Western interests?

>>18469930
>That involves violence
Glad you understood. Have a great day

>>18469931
>nonviolent civil disobedience
American left wing cultural rot leading to sanctions was the reason Apartheid gave, not "civil disobedience" lmao

>>18469934
You know maintaining a government of any sort requires violence, right?

>>18469933
It's still admirable, even if the results were bad. Apartheid couldn't last in any case

>>18469939
>It's still admirable
Is it really though? Is MLK admirable?
>Apartheid couldn't last in any case
Yeah no. Look at how incredibly incompetent South Africa is. Rhodesia was able to maintain white control with 3% of the population, far lower than modern South Africa. They only folded because of pressure from South Africa (who was pressured by the West).

>>18469928
>I do think it makes them no better than the ruling regime
Really? Like one would only say that if they were totally ignorant of what went on in South Africa during the colonial and apartheid years.

>>18469930
They never recorded their stats in a legitimate manner and outright refused to count non-white workers and inhabitants in their urban stats.

>They also had better infrastructure, better public safety, a better economy, better relations with the West
Infrastructure was super limited to a small percent of the already small whkte pop, public safety was a mess due to intrusive spying and police killings and crackdowns, the economy was ass and hinged on a permanent depression of wages for non-whites and designating them as a permanent labour underclass, relations with the West were pretty limited but SA literally screeching at Britain to exile Sererse Khama for marrying a white woman shows they weren't well tolerated.

>>18469933
>into a third world shithole
It already was if we are using layman's criteria for it. If people call Latin American a shithole than South Africa would be doubly so because it operated like a giant hacienda typical of many Carriebean and LatAm states back in the early and mid 20th century.
>hostile to Western interests?
What hostility?

>>18469946
>Rhodesia was able to maintain white control with 3% of the population
By leeching onto SA and having Portuguese colonies nearby.

>far lower than modern South Africa. They only folded because of pressure from South Africa (who was pressured by the West).
The insurgents were making gains and the pressure the ear was having on civilians+immigration to escape conscription was forcing the already limited Rhodesia economy struggle since the alternative of having women help cover the labor gap or I dunno giving out reforms that the African pop sought out was unfathomable.

>>18469952
>Like one would only say that if they were totally ignorant of what went on in South Africa during the colonial and apartheid years.
Are you totally ignorant of what South Africa is like today? In theory it's all sunshine and rainbows, but the reality of racial equality is crime and decay.
>They never recorded their stats in a legitimate manner
Really? You're telling me that White South Africans under Apartheid had a murder rate comparable to blacks today?
>Infrastructure was super limited to a small percent of the already small whkte pop
Is that even true? From what I've read it was about the same as in the West for the white population broadly.
>public safety was a mess due to intrusive spying and police killings and crackdowns
How else do you maintain a system like Apartheid?
>hinged on a permanent depression of wages for non-whites and designating them as a permanent labour underclass
I'll agree with this one. Europe, America, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have shown us that slave labor really has no economic benefit in the long run, and it obviously has social negatives.

>>18469937
Not in this way anon. Even outside of SA the tendency of cops being reactionary dumbasses and total socio/psychopaths isn't adored.

>>18469961
>giving out reforms that the African pop sought out was unfathomable.
How did that end, anon? Pray tell.

>>18469965
Yep, let's abolish the police. Great idea.

>>18469964
>but the reality of racial equality is crime and decay.
It had crime and decay during Apartheid also masaive bonded labour where families and entire communities were tied to estates and farms.
>From what I've read it was about the same as in the West for the white population broadly.
Lol they were pretty much only doing it for key white areas or in urban areas where they forcefully evicted people from their houses to open them up for investors and real estate.

>>18469957
>It already was
For blacks, sure. For white people? Obviously not.
>it operated like a giant hacienda typical of many Carriebean and LatAm states
Totally different when it's divided on racial lines. We know that whites who go anywhere will create first world countries without the need for low wage labor, so it's not as if you evaporated all of the Africans South Africa would collapse (in the long term, short term it'd be fucked obviously)
>

>>18469971
>It had crime and decay during Apartheid
Yeah for blacks maybe. Now white people aren't insulated from it.

>>18469967
They got their freedom. You think Rhodesia would have given Africans equal poltical and economic rights?

>>18469968
No one said that you histrionic bitch with a dick.

>>18469975
>they got their freedom
And where did that land them?

>>18469972
>For white people? Obviously not.
Rural poverty for whites was still rampant in SA and many of the Middle class were stuck in the rough poatuon of either hoping they got a hand up or having to suck the NPs cock to leverage state corruption.

>We know that whites who go anywhere will create first world countries without the need for low wage labor.
Not even remotely close to the truth, they all made use of low wage labour and labour abuses+suppression regardless of race.
>so it's not as if you evaporated all of the Africans South Africa would collapse (in the long term
Profit Margins being dependant on said depressed labour wages says otherwise. More so with mineral prices like platinum and others fluctuating.

>>18469974
>Now white people aren't insulated from it.
Whites had it too. Also the state spying and threatening Whites was commonplace.

>>18469979
Being able to experiance the highs and lows of being an independent state. You think living under a shitty white minority rule would have worked. The White Rhodie population was barely educated as is and was shrinking due to immigration to the UK/AusNZ or SA even before the guerilla war.

>>18469981
>Rural poverty for whites was still rampant in SA
I want to see some statistics.
>Not even remotely close to the truth, they all made use of low wage labour and labour abuses+suppression regardless of race.
Honestly? Not really. There was slavery and the Gilded Age I suppose, but I wouldn't say those were exactly responsible for America's success.
>Profit Margins being dependant on said depressed labour wages says otherwise
Yes, it would collapse in the short term. I admitted that. But looking at the prosperity of Europe and the Anglosphere I think it's clear that a permanent underclass of slave labor isn't necessary to succeed.

>>18469984
The only way to shore up the pop of supporters would be to...allow Indian immigration into the country. Mainly from areas that would be BJP strongholds in the future. Particularly type of Indians who are centre/kinda left abroad but go full race war Hindutva back home or in private.

>>18469987
>But looking at the prosperity of Europe and the Anglosphere I think it's clear that a permanent underclass of slave labor isn't necessary to succeed.
They all tapped into it. There was also the quite storied history of labour suppression of the settler and/or Euro immigrant in many areas of the west. Ine that hasn't exactly ended due to constant attempts to curtail them by government and private actors

>>18469984
>Being able to experiance the highs and lows of being an independent state
lmao. just fucking lol
>You think living under a shitty white minority rule would have worked
Probably about the same for the blacks, but with less starvation.
>was shrinking due to immigration to the UK/AusNZ or SA even before the guerilla war.
What? The Bush War started in the '60s and the white population peaked in the '70s.

>>18469990
>They all tapped into it
Literally how. We were at our most prosperous in the mid 20th century, 100 years AFTER our slave labor had been cut off, and 30+ years after our constant inflow of cheap labor from Europe had been cut off. I'm not saying that labor suppression didn't happen, it's just a bit ridiculous to claim it's the reason for our success.

>>18469872
>anti-European regime is applauded by other anti-European regimes
Why even ask the question. They are all aligned with each other.
>>18469984
Do you Europeans have the right to be independent too? Which logically comes with rejecting immigraiton and kicking non-European settlers out....

>>18470001
>Do you Europeans have the right to be independent too? Which logically comes with rejecting immigraiton and kicking non-European settlers out....
Immigrants aren't settlers and your attempt to conflate the two and bringing up sovereignty as a lame comeback shows how much of a mental midwit you are.

>>18469872
Very Khoisan shifted.

>>18470007
What if the immigrants were brought in against the will of the majority?

>>18469992
>We were at our most prosperous in the mid 20th century, 100 years AFTER our slave labor had been cut off, and 30+ years after our constant inflow of cheap labor from Europe had been cut off.
There waa countless anti-union efforts and violence during all that time, on top of that regression in labour organisation's and labour rights have been documented.

>it's just a bit ridiculous to claim it's the reason for our success.
It was a major competitive advantage. For example, to this day the USA's "at-will" policy in most states gives it an competitive energy few states can match. It however comes at the fault of increased stress, workplace pressure and employers finding ways to grind people down.

>>18469872
Reminder that Israel supported apartheid South Africa.

>>18469991
>lmao. just fucking lol
I'm right. Rhodesia engaged in UDI without the consent of the majority of the population. People wanted to be free and the Ian Smith regime refused to make reforms, so people sought out the only feasible way to make themselves heard.
>with less starvation.
The Rhodesia state had major issues witb providing transport and infrastructure.

>>18470016
The U.S. had the highest median income in the world in the 1950s. I really don't know what you're talking about. At-will firing is totally different, and I do support it. But we were talking about wages. My point was that cheap labor doesn't increase prosperity, and as such South Africa could've succeeded without their massive black underclass had they had better foresight.

>>18470022
>Rhodesia engaged in UDI without the consent of the majority of the population
Okay, and?
>People wanted to be free and the Ian Smith regime refused to make reforms, so people sought out the only feasible way to make themselves heard
Cry to the West?
>The Rhodesia state had major issues witb providing transport and infrastructure.
That's not even true. Look at the fact that Africa today has fewer functional miles of train tracks then it did before decolonization. Africa has gone nowhere since colonization ended. China was equally poor 50 years ago. Look where it is today. What's the common denominator?

>>18470007
Ok. Was the reconquista justified?

>>18470023
>as such South Africa could've succeeded without their massive black underclass had they had better foresight.
They wouldn't the entire model hinged off that exploitation. The alternative was letting them participate in the economy which would have given them more poltical and economic power. They preferred having a much smaller pie all to themselves rather than a piece of a large pie that was larger than that small pie ever could be.

>>18470028
>Cry to the West?
And get ignored? They mostly don't care about Africa, the sanctions on SA took ages to properly implement because of the actions of several states.

>Look at the fact that Africa today has fewer functional miles of train tracks then it did before decolonization.
There's a lot of new trains being built. The reason many trains went out of service was because new rail lines post indepdnancw rendered many of them redundant or new road projects and porta shifted the movement of trade.
>Africa has gone nowhere since colonization ended.
Literacy gains, material gains in income, development of middle class. Access to education and the growth of a skilled labour population, being able to participate in global matter and actually have a day, ability to do trade with other states. Being able to travel freely.
>China was equally poor 50 years ago. Look where it is today. What's the common denominator?
China is a massive state with a huge with many high density coastal cities and proximity to Korea, Taiwan and Japan. The gains in training people are literally exponential due to that sheer size.

>>18470054
Also China had the US basically hooked it up with manufacturing under the mistaken pretense that industrialization and urbanization would liberalise it.

>>18470023
>The U.S. had the highest median income in the world in the 1950s.
The US still has the second highest median income in the world behind Luxembourg but Luxembourg isn't a real country anyways

>>18470054
>They wouldn't the entire model hinged off that exploitation
My point is that similar states to South Africa succeeded without a comparable underclass.
>The alternative was letting them participate in the economy
Going back further, like 100-200 years, they could've actually just shut them out entirely.
>They preferred having a much smaller pie all to themselves rather than a piece of a large pie that was larger than that small pie ever could be
Okay but is South Africa actually more prosperous than it was back then? Overall it seems to be about the same by GDP, and backwards by other metrics.

>>18470062
Imagine actually believing this. It started as a Cold War maneuver to worsen the Sino-Soviet Split and then it was just taken advantage of for cheap manufacturing. We never thought China was going to be an ally.

>>18470054
>there's a lot of new trains being built
just lol.
>Literacy gains
I'll grant this. I guess.
>material gains in income,
Relative to the West this is false. They've actually gone backwards when you compare median income to the West in the 1980s and today.
>Access to education
>being able to participate in global matter and actually have a day, ability to do trade with other states. Being able to travel freely.
None of this is because of decolonization. Moreso they both just happened at the same time.
>China is a massive state with a huge with many high density coastal cities and proximity to Korea, Taiwan and Japan. The gains in training people are literally exponential due to that sheer size.
Are you really trying to pretend there aren't any African countries with advantageous geography? Really man?

>>18470068
>South Africa succeeded without a comparable underclass.
They still have underclassea of their own.
>Going back further, like 100-200 years, they could've actually just shut them out entirely.
And ruin the money? Also previous attempts at restricting the franchisement led to white men losing their voting rights.
>South Africa actually more prosperous than it was back then?
Overall it's much better now but spending 70+ years to protect and enshrine a oligopy for South African businesses (remember it had on par or worse than LatAm tier stat capture) has it it back versus other states that actually moved on. Either that of had other ways to prolong the inevitable in running an extraction state like selling coal to China (Australia) or selling exclusively to the Americans (Canada)

>>18470082
>They still have underclassea of their own
Who the fuck is the underclass in 1950s Canada or Australia lmao?
>And ruin the money
It wouldn't, as evidenced by the Anglosphere.
>Overall it's much better now
Is it? Can you back this up with statistics?
>Either that of had other ways to prolong the inevitable in running an extraction state like selling coal to China (Australia) or selling exclusively to the Americans (Canada)
Australia did not export to China in the 20th century, what are you talking about? And today it's not an extraction economy, despite their massive natural resources.

>>18470078
>just lol.
You can look the up.
>They've actually gone backwards when you compare median income to the West in the 1980s and today.
Because the West surged up but the gains Africa made compared to 30 or 60+ years ago is immense.
>None of this is because of decolonization.
Most cases yeah, education was a pretty much never prioritized and for the people that did they often times got exiled from returning. The number of even just high school graduates back then to now is immense.
>Are you really trying to pretend there aren't any African countries with advantageous geography.
The Indian Ocean trade is limited, no o e goes around the cap and haven't for more than a century, many areas are heavily forested or require intense construction work to implement roads. Many Afrucan statea have small populations or are spread out.

>>18470088
>And today it's not an extraction economy, despite their massive natural resources.
The monig sector has an vast disportionately lobbying power. Also has more or less infiltrated the government and has actively fucked Nuclear power from making a foothold in three country.

>>18470089
>you can look it up
I swear to God if the shit you're referring me to is being built by China
>the gains Africa made compared to 30 or 60+ years ago is immense.
Not relative to the rest of the world.
>Most cases yeah, education was a pretty much never prioritized
I'm gonna need to see some statistics.
>The Indian Ocean trade is limited, no o e goes around the cap and haven't for more than a century, many areas are heavily forested or require intense construction work to implement roads
I mean honestly this goes for anywhere. Asia was pretty backwards in the 1800s but it's made itself into a hotspot. You say China is near Japan and Korea, but how did Japan become a power? The Meiji Restoration was honestly a remarkable feat of pure human will. I don't think Africans are ever going to pull something like that off.

>>18470094
>has actively fucked Nuclear power from making a foothold in three country.
I'm immediately skeptical of that claim given Australia's uranium resources.

>>18470098
>Asia was pretty backwards in the 1800s but it's made itself into a hotspot.
Japan did, SK and Taiwan got babied by the US and Japan.
>The Meiji Restoration was honestly a remarkable feat of pure human will
Japan was isolated enough to avoid foreigners meddling infiltration. Also many if the experts weren't two-faced or leaking info to nearby powers.
>I don't think Africans are ever going to pull something like that off.
There's notable reforms, a growth in the civil society, growth in manufacturing and major electrical projects that have been complete. The Meiji Restoration took 30+ years and it took several more decades for Japan to be recognized by the imperial power and that was only cemented after defeating the Russians.

>>18470216
>The Meiji Restoration took 30+ years and it took several more decades for Japan to be recognized by the imperial power
Africans have had 60+ years. Are any of them any closer to being on par with Western powers than they were 60 years ago?

>>18470231
>Africans have had 60+ years.
Ina radically different world and having to start from effectively scratch.
>Are any of them any closer to being on par with Western powers than they were 60 years ago?
All the western powers are currently has-beens, several states are on the rise and entire industries are either gonna husk out or drain the entire energy sector dry so it'a hard to tell what will happen or draw any conclusion. Even China isn't really booming like it was and the QoL gap between the coastal cities and the inner cities is still very large. What you said could be levied stand post independent state.

>>18470236
>having to start from effectively scratch
Just like Japan.
>All the western powers are currently has-beens
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
How's Venezuela?

>>18470238
>Just like Japan.
Japan didn't start from scratch after it was firebombed and then nuked.
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>How's Venezuela?
Have you even checked the news?

>>18470238
> How's Venezuela?
America isn’t a “western power” retarded. It’s a gay and woke corporation masquerading as a country.

Latinx called out lmao

>>18470241
>Japan didn't start from scratch after it was firebombed and then nuked.
I'm talking about the 1800s genius. And China was starting from scratch in the 20th century.
>Have you even checked the news?
When we decapitated the entire leadership class of Iran? I don't think it was a well advised war, but we are clearly winning on pure military might. We might not get much from it because, again, it wasn't well advised.

>>18470245
>When we decapitated the entire leadership class of Iran?
>but we are clearly winning on pure military might. We might not get much from it because, again
They still have a ton of them. The US killed the one guy in the Iranian government against military action, the new guy is okay with it and now everyone is fucked by the Hormuz shit. How is this a victory?

>>18470260
It's not a victory, it wasn't a well advised war. I'm just saying on pure military might we're winning. That doesn't mean we're winning in the sense of achieving our geopolitical goals. Look at Venezuela. That was well-advised and it was a brutal show of American strength.

>>18470262
> it was a brutal show of American strength.
Shut up glowie nobody thinks America is powerful anymore.

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>>18470268
Hahahahahahahahaha I finally broke you

>>18470274
>imported 1 more spic
Cool. Why is the Hormuz still closed? Why has the US lost more aircraft than Iran?
Why are all your gulf bases destroyed?

>>18469872
The fact there wasn't a destructive race war in south Africa is very much an achievement that deserves the peace prize. Even if the honest thing would be to give it in group to the ANC, and the NP both for preventing that from happening. With special mention to Mandela. Mind you, it would be of the same worth as the Henry Kissinger peace prize, but it's still an achievement.

ITT: Venezuelan anon seethes and Favelaposts at Americans for invading his commie shithole and removing his leader from power in a matter of days

>>18470262
>I'm just saying on pure military might we're winning.
While burning out your finances in a losing war the Iranians have an advantage on, no one is sympathetic to the one state the US sacrificed everything on and the economy is getting ruined.

>>18470292
Aren’t most Venezuelans pro US? It’s probably some Brazilian nigger

>>18470295
idk but he started seething and going off-topic when Venezuela was brought up

>>18470292
They have a new leader, military resources were wasted and no Yank company has made move on Venezuelan oil because they all moved on from the nationalization eons ago and the oil wasnt even that good to invade over. The oil refineries used for it on the gulf shore are super dated too.

>>18470286
Regardless, to a point I think Mandela's terrorism is just the most PC way apartheid supporters have of making themselves known.
Don't get me wrong, he was, his organization was militant, his wife had people burned alive as a terror tactic, etc. But anyone bringing that up (aside from hyperspecific researchers, of course) is usually going to conveniently strip the other party in the equation of agency or responsability of anything, talk it up. Which doesn't give the remark a good reputation.

>>18470299
???
Chevron is planing on expanding its operations in Venezuela by 50% over the next two years, this was after easing US sanctions. I'm sorry anon but Venezuela was a regime change whether you like it or not.

>>18470306
That's gonna take years before anything resembling profit comes in.

>>18470311
And?

>>18470311
Plus trump will be long gone by then.
And I’m not so sure president AOC will be very keen on continuing the GOP’s reckless military adventurism

>>18470299
It's really funny to me how everyone acts like Venezuela is now owned by the U.S.
Literally nothing happened. Not even the normalization of oil sales, that had iirc already happened under Biden. Just a bunch of retarded smoke. It doesn't help that the current U.S administration seems to do nothing but lie. Mythomaniacal.

>>18470316
Chevron is gaining an increased stake in a specific joint venture with PDVSA, not in the company as a whole; moreover, it is handing over assets/mineral rights to PDVSA in return.

>>18470318
Oh wow Chevron did an asset swap and the U.S had some Central American Kleptocrat shenanigans about oil sales to the U.S held in a Qatari account o algoever the corrupción is carried out. Meanwhile retards act like they occupied the fucking country like it's Nicaragua.
I'm not a Mabungo supporter btw. But the situation was/is 95% talk and headline bullshit.

>thread is derailed by seething third worlders
ban South American IP addresses already holy shit

>>18470318
>It's really funny to me how everyone acts like Venezuela is now owned by the U.S.
Their leader was literally relocated to a prison in New York anon, it's pretty hard to frame it any other way

>>18470328
You’re indan. And reminder: shilling for the US won’t get you a green card.

>>18469872
South African whites are genuinely that obnoxious. There's a reason the Brits stuck them into concentration camps.

>>18470325
Then ban the US too since it’s 90% spic anyway

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>>18469872
How indeed, go--I mean, fellow boer...

>>18470341
Afrikaners you mean? The ol' great White Tribe. In fairness, the Rhodesians weren't any better. But instead of behaving like Albino bantu they pretended to be snooty British Aristocrats depite all being failures who couldn't make it in the motherland.

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>>18470340
>Do I fit in yet guys??
You're bad at this. You should leave this website and go back to your favela

>>18469872
jews

>>18469872
>How the FUCK did this literal terrorist get so much sympathy and a fucking Nobel Peace Prize
It was precisely because he gave up terrorism and negotiated with the government in good faith after 1988, which is very rare for somebody like that to do. He basically pulled off what people like Arafat didn't because both him and the NP regime under De Klerk were both really tired of war and saw that the Cold War was coming to a close, so both of their movements would have their feet put to the fire if it kept going on and the Cold War context didnt exist.
And unlike all the ANC governments that followed Mandela actually did a decent job holding up his end of the bargain and actually became an outspoken critic of what the party devolved into under Mbeki.
He was quite literally one of the good ones, Sam Nujoma in Namibia was similar. Problem was he didn't set up his party for success because he built it around him too much and when it became time to pass the torch he gave it to a complete fucking retard, and now we have the SA of today which is a cunthair away from being the next Zimbabwe.

>>18470636
Mbeki wasn't too awful besides his AIDS policy though, he genuinely helped South Africa integrate into the global market economy as much as possible. Zuma took over and enshittified everything just as the global economy shat itself in 08 and refused to invest into the natural resource sectors that allowed similar countries like Brazil to ride the Chinese commodity boom where they tried to outbuild themselves out of the Great Recession. So now SA is still stuck with the massive slums of the Apartheid era but with even worse overcrowding and infiltration into previously well maintained parts of the city.

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>>18469872
It's always hilarious how you can spot the non-South Africans like this because the actual white Saffers fucking love Mandela for essentially giving them the free golden ticket out of a cataclysmic civil war or seizure of their property.
Mandela mellowed out big time, said the rich Saffers could keep their mansions and swimming pools and shit, and the whites said "oh thank fucking God that's all I wanted to hear". No Stalinist style seizure of property or purges and shit, the rich whites continued living rich and paying blacks to work as their chauffeurs, nannies, gardeners, etc...

>>18470653
I mean have you SEEN the average apartheid supporter on the Internet?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DUHti7ukTp7/

>>18469889
>Imagine if the situations were reversed, if it was a white majority in Europe being ruled by an imported nigger minority who tortured white children

The analogy doesn't work because in South Africa, the foreign minority in question had created the whole country and every city in it.
This doesn't work with brownoids in Europe.
We'd need a fictional setting in which an advanced alien race conquers Europe and uplift it by 1000 years and then the native rebel against them and claim everything the aliens built there as righfully theirs.

>>18469901
>Alright, replace the niggers with Jews

Then it gives the nazis and everyone agrees it was evil

>>18470664
I don't recall Black South Africans throwing the invading wh*tes into gas chmabers for mass murder or hunting down and shooting millions as they engaged in a lightning assault from the Bantustans. Not do I recall Nelson Mandela leading a surprise backstabbing war against Namibia or something to gas all the Germans there

>>18469872
He was ant-White, (((they))) will forgive any crime you commit if it's in the name of being anti-White.

>>18470646
>Mbeki wasn't too awful besides his AIDS policy though
Mbeki led to Zuma because of how corrupt and clientelistic his government was. And while he definitely helped SA integrate into the global economy in the 00s powered by the commodities boom it was an uneven processs at best and outright corrupt at worst given he empowered both the business class and party elites of the ANC to the detriment of everyone else.
Because of him squandering that window of growth and development as well as peace between the ethnic groups we now have a situation where most of the country is rapidly deteriorating as the ANC's elites often literally rip out the copper wiring of the country while the White/Indian/Coloured business class keeps hemorraghing abroad to places like the UK, Australia, and US. Coloured/White/Indian/Asian multiracial Cape Seperatism has supplanted the Volkstaat in the popular imagination of that region and is one crisis away from emerging as a serious force while the rest of the country is falling into disrepair and authoritarianism no different than Mozambique or Zimbabwe. If the Cape leaves that'll leave the rest of the country either a ruin or a war zone or both.
>>18470653
Also this. It' not Mandela Afrikaners and non-Black South Africans have a problem with, it's the ANC. They're two different things at this point in the popular imagination especially in the West.
>>18470657
>anti-communist Chinese nationalist likes Apartheid South Africa
Not surprising if you have elite ball knowledge of Apartheid SA like I do

He’s like Hitler posing for photos during his comfy “prison” sentence

>>18470697
Dude he's an ugly fat autistic Chinaman
This is supposed to be the savior of the white race?

>>18469891
>local
A lot of them were immigrants or descendants of immigrants. They moved into a functioning society, became enough of the population to take power, and then set about lowering it to the level they are capable of governing at.

>>18470704
>This is supposed to be the savior of the white race?
You're missing the forest for the trees, you have no idea how deep the rabbithole goes between the Chiang-era ROC and Apartheid South Africa. They were best bros as much if not more than Israel and Apartheid SA were. It makes complete sense that a fat Chinese nerd on the anti-communist right of Chinese politics would have a fetish for Apartheid South Africa.
https://globaltaiwan.org/2019/12/the-enduring-partnership-between-taiwan-and-south-africa/

>>18469889
If they didn't do the Truth and Reconciliation process they would have hit Haiti-tier overnight due to international isolation. Apartheid fell because America demanded, doing something so brazenly retarded like land and industry expropriations would be the equivalent of baby in the womb trying to kill its mother. Now they're slowly burning to Haiti tier over decades instead, but still

>>18469872
He blak

>>18469872
>>18470653
Wignats are really low IQ, they should love Mandela kek his dumbass basically saved their boys in South Africa with a moderate "settlement". But they're dumb and have no idea of how things work, which is why they'll always be cucks, losers and mental slaves who get raped by Abduls and Tyrones, super brutal.

>>18469872
It was convenient for the American left to idolize him. South Africa's Apartheid is superficially the same as American segregation.

>>18469889
This is the same post-apartheid society that's currently marching in the streets chanting 'kill the Boer', right? The one that's clearly about to go all 'Zimbabwe' on its white minority? That society?

>>18470857
black South Africans hate other black Africans more than they whites lmao. They're marching in the streets right now to deport immigrants

>>18469884
>you can't go one this part of the beach, go to the other side
vs
Literal bomb chucking (into churches) communist

>>18471225
Disingenuous. I'm as racist as they come but the Apartheid regime was brutal

>>18470857
That's not going to happen, though. Also, the EFF aren't all of South Africa, they are actually fairly minor, in the grand scheme.

>>18471363
South Africa is a dumb country. Did you know that in the constitution, the Chinese are legally black?

>>18469872
didn't he die in that prison?

>>18471392
no, that happened in the timeline where the monopoly man has a monocle and the fruits have a loom

File: 1778043363559715.png (104 KB, 500x500)

104 KB PNG

>>18469904
And necklacing was a thing and also steve biko his own dear friend and patriot was given over to his own terrorist's break away's(yeah sure they were bantu's he's a bantu hottentot rape baby) to beat until the poor man had freakin shell shock, ptsd out of his mind on lack of sleep.

And then they strapped bombs to biko to attack the afrikaners municipal/parliamentary (He mkultra'd his own childhood friend, and said he took it to far lel).

I studied this for highschool, his documentary movie biko the neutral party who became radicalized