All Muslims use this "gotcha" and no Christian can come back from it. A Muslims simply asks - "do you believe Jesus is God?", the Christian will say yes of course, then the Muslim proceeds "does God know everything? absolutely everything?", the Christian will answer that yes of course he does, then the Muslim proceeds - "Why in the Bible does Jesus say he does not know the hour?"The Christian at this point fumbles and changes the topic or is unable to provide a clear-cut answer.
>>18469940Because Jesus wasn't glorified yet Next question
>>18469940The bible is contradictory, there are versus that imply jesus is god and there are other verses that imply he is not god
>>18469940Muslim retards will say that the bible and torah affirm the bullshit that Mohammad said and also tell you those affirmations do not exist anymore even though these texts were virtually unchanged for two centuries.Muslim retards will tell you the koran is unchanged even though there exists admissions that a ton of different versions were destroyed early on.Muslim retards will tell you that Allah has two right hands and is unlike anything in creation.
>>18469960*Two millenia, sorry.
>>18469960>The Christian at this point fumbles and changes the topicSeems like OP was right
>>18469969Why would anyone accept Islam if it esteems and relies on the texts of a false religion which conveniently don't exist anymore
>>18469973IrrelevantIslam being false doesn't address the point OP made
>>18469978Then why is the OP apparently batting for Islam?
>>18469985He's batting against christainity. In almost no other religion, do you need to explicitly reject classical aristotelian logic to affirm its fundamental doctrine
>>18469995Nah, this is dishonest as fuck. You want to point out the speck in someones eye when you have a log in yours.
>my god can beat up your godYou lot are like Marvel vs DC comic nerds. Except your comic book is 2000 year old booorrrring word babbel.
>>18469999How is it a speck if asking a simple question like "hey what is the Christian god" turn into an hour long lecture?
>>18469940Still not converting, Achmed. Keep worshipping your inane cube.
>>18469995>you need to explicitly reject classical aristotelian logic to affirm its fundamental doctrineNo you don't, it's very simple. This argument is like saying "Your eyes can't be part of you because you can hear but your eyes can't". A part of a thing doesn't need all of the attributes of the whole thing.
>>18469940If Allah knows everything and is all powerful why did he allow the men of al zutt to insert their black penises into the prophet Muhammads quivering asshole and tear his rectal lining?
>>18469995That's because Aristotle sucked and held the world back for 2000 years with his pagan confusion until prophet George Boole PBUH had a divine vision which revealed to him God's Boolean logic in 1847 where 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 because when you add truth to truth it doesn't multiply, proving the Trinity and allowing the Christian world to accomplish 1000 years of development in 100 years. Without the functional reality of the Trinity you literally couldn't be using the device or the website you are posting on.
>>18469940>Muslims can't understand the trinitarian godhead
>>18470625Can the christians explain it without it collapsing into polytheism, modalism or partialism?
>>18470627
>>18469999just answer the question man
>>18470630I've seen this same triangle in hinduism as well. Does christianity subscribe to same non-dualistic impersonal model of God? Or can you tell me what is the distinction between these 3?
>>18470638There is one GodGod is the Father God is the SonGod is the SpiritThe Father is not the SonThe Son is not the SpiritThe Spirit is not the FatherEach is fully God and not a part or a mode of God but God Himself
>>18470645answer it in your own words please. this is just parroting mumbo jumbo dogma.
>>18470644The Hindus have multiple incarnations of Vishnu and the way they function would be modalistic, one entity playing different characters
>>18470651There is one ballThe ball is redThe ball is blueThe ball is greenThe red ball is not the blue ballThe blue ball is not the green ballThe green ball is not the red ballEach color ball is fully the original one ball and isn't that ball changing colors or parts that add up to a white ball
>>18470654At the level of their trinity (trimurti), in the school of advaita vedanta their central diety is an impersonal force that manifests as different forms/functions. It cleanly side-steps the question of personhood.But a rudimentary critique of the christian trinity is simply asking if Jesus wanted to make you taller but the father differed, what would happen?CAN Jesus and the Father differ?According to the classical understanding of the trinity, this is impossible as they are 2 persons (hypostastis) sharing one indivisible essense (ousia). But If they can't differ they can't be 2 persons, as personhood is predicted upon this distinction.What christianity requires is for us to re-define intuitive labels like personhood to here to mean relations of origin. According to Thomas Aquinas, subsistent relations like begetting or begotten. To hold up the doctrine together, but this doesn't really solve the issue.
>>18469940Here's my "gotcha" to muslims:I SAID ZUTT ZUTT IN THE BUTT
>>18470691>CAN Jesus and the Father differ?According to the classical understanding of the trinity, this is impossible as they are 2 persons (hypostastis) sharing one indivisible essense (ousia). But If they can't differ they can't be 2 persons, as personhood is predicted upon this distinction.They do differ though, since part of orthodox Christian theology is that the person of the Son suffered alone on the cross and the Father did not (the Father suffering is the heresy of Patripassianism). In questions of will like you raised afaik the Son's will and the Father's are correspondent but not united (that's Monotheletism), Jesus being a bridge between the human and the divine as a God-man who would presumbly negotiate the issue within Himself
>what is the trinity and philip 2:7: the thread
>>18470716>since part of orthodox Christian theology is that the person of the Son suffered alone on the cross and the Father did notHis human nature suffered. Jesus is a hypostatic union of two distinct but complete natures, one fully divine one fully human. At the council of chalcedon, the creed suggested that instead of parts, this union has a complete set of attributes of both abstract natures in one being. >afaik the Son's will and the Father's are correspondent but not united>that's MonotheletismMonotheletism is in regards to the hypostatic union of jesus' two natures. It suggests that there's only one will at the level, but the orthodox position is that there's 2 (Dyothelitism)For the trinity level however, the orthodox position as articulated at the council of constantinople according to the nicaean creed actually affirms to only ONE divine will. An identical will of both the Father and the Son.
>>18470734>For the trinity level however, the orthodox position as articulated at the council of constantinople according to the nicaean creed actually affirms to only ONE divine will. An identical will of both the Father and the Son.Yeah but then the Bible has Matthew 26:39:"He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”Making a distinction between the will of Jesus and the Father
>>18470738Tbh I wasn't aware of Matthew 26:39, but how do the church fathers reconcile their position? So they just concede it's the human will again?
>>18469940The Son means Christians in Christ too. If they're white, goyim shall come to them worshipping. If they're black, goyim shall come worshipping them on sight as well. No serious conversation can start until you show love to the Son. If he said the Son, then the Son it is. The Bible says what it says.
>>18470750>>18470738>>18470734Jesus has a human will and divine will. a Human soul and a Divine esense.
>>18470786Ok?
>>18469940He came down in human form so Jesus-God wasn't omniscient just like he wasn't all-powerful, or impervious to nails and spears. It's not that complicated.The whole Jesus is God thing is really stupid, but that's certainly not what makes it or breaks it.
>>18469940>do you believe Jesus is God?And when a Christian says no?
>>18471007Arianism
There is only one God, the one true living God, and that is the light of God in Christ which does the will of the Father. Non trinitarians are just jews or jew worshipers in denial.
>>18469940reminder most of these threads are made by jeets with no understanding of either religion.
It's among the funny paradoxes of Christianity >Jesus defeats death my dying>the poor are actually rich>being meek and compassionate makes you stronger>drunks and prostitutes are more worthy of God's love than pious priests >to save your life you must lose it>God is one but also many
>>18470658Enjoy hell!
>>18471181ESL. every single time
>>18469940The problem is that you read this literally as being a statement of 'I don't know' while ignoring the message behind the statement, which is to be prepared for the judgment of God. So it is not a gotcha it is a display of poor reading comprehension.
If Ive learned one thing about Christians it's that their bread and butter to avoiding actual criticism is just repeating the question in a mocking tone and deluding themselves into thinking they exposed the haters.
