Seeing how these topics are starting to dominate conversation in a certain, mostly unrelated thread, I think it'd be beneficial to give them their own space.
Is there any books you like about the topic?
>>18470243You can read the articles linked in the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_metallurgy_in_Africa
>>18470243whites introduced metallurgy to africa during their migrations back into those landsmodern afrocentrists misattribute those sites to black africans in the furtherance of their politically driven agendas
>>18470266>modern afrocentristsArcheological evidence is afrocentrist
what's the evidence for or againist indigenous iron metallurgy?
>>18470301https://www.africanhistoryextra.com/p/a-general-history-of-iron-technologyThis is going to be much better than anything anyone here can give on their own.
>>18470345Issac Samuel is decent, but he doesn't provide proper context on certain occasions. In this article, he fails to mention that pre-1000 BC dates are extremely controversial.
>>18470301It's quite different from iron mettalurgy elsewhere, and was present in it's traditional form(s) prior to significant MENA influence iirc. I believe it's possible that MENA peoples introduced it to nearby areas around the same time that Nok was smelting iron, but I'm not sure if the areas they were present in produced iron tools in the traditional african fashion, and if they, it then raises the question of why iron mettalurgy in West-Africa is so different from it elsewhere. It's possible that tales of iron tools could've encouraged the natives to try making something from the material...
>>18470243>>18470246I already refuted you in that thread. Everyone is invited to read it. Besides, this is a trolling thread and has been done several times under other names but by at least one user. West Africa, unfortunately, was not developed.
>>18470372> it then raises the question of why iron mettalurgy in West-Africa is so different from it elsewhere.It also raises the question of why the metal tools at Nok suggest novelty.
I had no idea Africa left the stone age. Pretty cool. Do they have writing systems yet?
>>18470394No
>>18470394There is Ajami, which a sub-set of Arabic used to basically adapt Arabic to the local language. All of the truly indigenous creations are proto-writing, with characters representing concepts and events rather than sound/speech.Picrel(Nsibidi) translates to the following:> (a) The court was held under a tree as is the custom, (b) the parties in the case, (c) the chief who judged it, (d) his staff (these are enclosed in a circle), (e) is a man whispering into the ear of another just outside the circle of those concerned, (f) denotes all the members of the party who won the case. Two of them (g) are embracing, (h) is a man who holds a cloth between his finger and thumbs as a sign of contempt. He does not care for the words spoken. The lines round and twisting mean that the case was a difficult one which the people of the town could not judge for themselves. So they sent to the surrounding towns to call the wise men from them and the case was tried by them (j) and decided; (k) denotes that the case was one of adultery or No. 20
>>18470288misattributing the sources of archaeological finds in order to push a political agenda is afrocentrism. its all they do
>>18470381I'm not sure who you are, but in any case, the evidence presented against the independant invention of both agriculture and iron mettalurgy wasn't convincing. Regarding the claims in picrel:First and foremost, it's now believed that Nok appeared centuries before 1000 bc, so that paper cannot be right.The earliest date suggested for berber influence presented is contemporary with the first appearance of iron mettalurgy in North Africa, with any date much later than that being contemporary with the oldest iron tools at Nok.
I've heard that there were certain African cultures that independently developed steel without ever inventing bronze, does anybody know the name of those cultures?
>>18470477That was basically all of them. I think only one culture had a chalcolithic.
>>18470257Wikipedia, famous for never lying in politically charged topics
>>18470572Except for the part where I told OP to read the articles linked you mouth-breather
>>18470381>West Africa, unfortunately, was not developedYet based on historical data West Africa was more productive than North Africa and parts of Europe>>18470427>Academic rigour is afrocentrism
>>18470468Some self-corrections + important context. From "A Chronology of the Central Nigerian Nok Culture – 1500 BC to the Beginning of the Common Era".The berber dates are a nothing burger + diffusion from berbers contradicts the unique methodology along with the state of tools at Nok, granted some sites related to the culture have been destroyed and looted.
>>18471123>>Academic rigourI wish they would, instead every scrap of anything indicating advancement beyond the stone age found in Africa is misattributed to black Africans instead of to white colonizers like it should be.
>>18471123
>>18471159>>18471123Shit, replied to the wrong post, meant to reply to >>18471155In any case, you need to stop falling for weak bait.
bump
>>18471159Skulls at early sites associated with agriculture in the region (in this case Karkarichinkat) are blatantly negroid, or at least quite mixed.
>>18472206
>>18472206Karkarichinkat is in the Sahel, to be clear. The site was inhabited from 2620 to 2200 BC.
>>18470477That was Nok, though I believe they might descend from a culture that had a chalcolithic. For full context, see the Abstract for "Reassessment of the evidence for early metallurgy in Niger, West Africa"> A large number of structures that appear to be forges or smelting furnaces have been excavated by D. Grébénart in the Agadez region of Niger. Many of the calibrated radiocarbon dates from these structures fall in the second and third millennia BC, more than a millennium older than the earliest previous dates for metallurgy in sub-Saharan Africa. Chemical and microstructural studies of the fused materials from these structures show that most of the samples dated prior to 1000 be are partially vitrified soil and cannot be positively associated with a metallurgical process. The only positive evidence for metallurgy in this region in the second/third millennium BC is a single radiocarbon date of 1710 ± 110 be (GIF-5176) for a copper-working furnace. This date may reflect the use of old charcoal and should be viewed with caution until thermoluminescence dates can be obtained for this furnace.After 1000 BC, native copper and copper oxide minerals were processed in non-tapping shaft furnaces. Calcite, dolomite and aluminosilicate gangue minerals have combined to produce unusual red melilite slags. The scale of production appears to have been very small. Iron smelting came into general use in this region around 500 BC, but the origins of this technology are still unclear.
