Okay but would his successors have been?
>>18470683I would not take the people peddling that theory at face value, they aren't arguing it in good faith.
Why is Turkey colored in
>>18470683Hitler was brutally pragmatic when it comes to foreign affairs (which sounds like a compliment, but was a flaw) , as soldiers who think in battles often are. He was pro-british in sense:>when it comes to who's the big boss of the continent, it's between France and Germany. So France are our natural adversary. That's just how it is.>Britain - they don't care to control the continent, especially not the eastern parts that I'm aiming for. They care about their colonies abroad. I dont care about distant colonies. Therefore there is no cause for conflict between us, therefore we can coexist.i reckon his successors would be the same simply because they'd always have their hands full just controlling the continental Europe alone.
>>18470683>Okay but would his successors have been?Only if Britain was pro-German. Realpolitik or something.
>>18470683>meme map
>>18472101Hitler didn't want to conquer The East and subordinate the rest of Europe to Germany?
>>18472148What is known is that there was a desire to at least approximately reconstitute the territory of the German state circa 1914 (though hostility towards Poles and Poland was not a foregone policy; at least, there are no such statements until 1939 after diplomacy had broken down... had Pilsudski's faction persisted, there would likely have been a very different timeline, with a Polish state less warm to France and the UK); and the intention to destroy bolshevism. There was also a stated desire for a German state to play the role of leading power in continental Europe.That "one-state-to-the-Urals" map was produced after the war (Nuremberg Trials, I believe?), and has no precedent in the NS-state. There was also no definitive German state document titled "Generalplan Ost." The only references to such a thing are two mentions in wartime memoranda referring to a non-specified "general plan for the east."
>>18472148>>18472166edit: the map in OP's pic shows a Germany extending approximately to the Volga, and also including Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, and Flanders. The incorporation of other Germanic-speaking countries derives from a claim in Albert Speer's memoirs, published in the 1970's. There is no documentation for the annexation of said countries dating from 1933-1945.
>>18470683Hitler wasn't pro-British, he considered the British Aryan and didn't believe they were fully ruled by Jews (unlike the French or Americans) however he also believed the British national identity was intrinsically selfish and driven by antagonism toward Germanic and Italian powers on the European continent. He was willing to work with the British if they agreed to, but that didn't mean he trusted or loved them unconditionally.Also your map is bullshit because the Balkans were meant to be Italian vassals not German vassals. France probably would have been divided between German and Italian spheres of influence too.
>>18472196The map is bullshit for many reasons.
>>18470683Hitler wasn't pro-British. He was pro-German and to a lesser extent pro-Italian/Japanese. If you read Table Talk he's constantly praising the Italians and Japanese while mocking the English. In Mein Kampf, sure, he advocates for a pro-English policy but of course that's only on the condition the English are willing to accept such an alliance.I don't think he really cared about the English beyond the fact he wanted them to butt out and mind their own business
>Germany would grant sovereignty to the territories they conquered instead of making them part of the NeuordnungWhy is /his/ so delusional?>The term New Order (German: Neuordnung) refers to the political and social concepts Nazi Germany sought to impose on German-occupied Europe and beyond>Planning for the Neuordnung began before World War II, but Adolf Hitler first proclaimed a "European New Order" in a speech on 30 January 1941>The European Confederation (German: Europäischer Staatenbund) was a proposed political institution of European unity, which was to be part of a broader restructuring (Neuordnung) in the aftermath of a German victory in the Second World War. The plan was proposed by German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop in March 1943>The draft of the Act stateed that the Confederation's purpose was to ensure that wars never again break between European peoples. Its members were to be sovereign states that guaranteed the freedom, the national character and the political independence of other member states>Hitler was dismissive of the plan, as his vision of postwar Europe was one of total German hegemony over the European sovereign states conquered by the Third Reich>Ernst von Weizsäcker, Secretary of State at the Foreign Office, recorded in his diaries Hitler's position on the matter. On April 13, 1943, Weizsäcker wrote,>"Reorganization of Europe: no enthusiasm for this idea on our side; the present jejune communiqué is a compromise between two parties">On May 5, 1943, he wrote,>"The reason why we are not to be drawn into a conversation about the "New Order" in Europe is indicated confidentially by the Führer: our neighbours are all our enemies; we must get all we can out of them, but cannot and must not promise them anything"
>>18470683I don't think Hitler particularly liked or hated England. He thought England was a tragic country that was falling to the forces of modernity and Americanization.It was France, Russia, Poland, and America he hated
>>18470683Hitler mused at the idea of a German-British alliance but that didn't mean he thought it was actually likely to occur. He focused more on trying to court Italy as an ally and hoped to keep England neutral for as long as possible
>>18472218Anyone who thinks Germany would stop after the war while Japan takes over half the world is either an apologist or playing the fool.>As the Japanese went from victory to victory, Tojo and the rest of the Japanese elite were gripped by what the Japanese called "victory disease," as the entire elite was caught up in a state of hubris, believing Japan was invincible and the war was as good as won. By May 1942, Tojo approved a set of "non-negotiable" demands to be presented once the Allies sued for peace that allowed Japan to keep everything it already conquered while assuming possession of considerably more. Under such demands, Japan would assume control of the following territories:>the British Crown colonies of India and Honduras as well as the British dominions of Australia, Australian New Guinea, Ceylon, New Zealand, British Columbia and the Yukon Territory>the American state of Washington and the American territories of Alaska and Hawaii>most of Latin America including Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti and the rest of the West Indies>Additionally, Tojo wanted all of China to be under the rule of the puppet Wang Jingwei and planned to buy Macau and East Timor from Portugal and to create new puppet kingdoms in Burma, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Indonesia, and Malaya. As the Burmese had proved to be enthusiastic collaborators in the "New Order in Asia," the new Burmese kingdom would be allowed to annex much of north-east India as a reward. The Navy, for its part, demanded that Japan take New Caledonia, Fiji, and Samoa
>>18472245>British Colombia, Washington State, Central America, West Indies...Source:Alternative History Fandomhttps://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/Hideki_T%C5%8Dj%C5%8D_(Lucyandanny)
>>18472246The original source is an old version of Tojo's Wiki page. Althistory just copy-pasted this and modified the dates.https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hideki_Tojo&oldid=1135568661Here are the source:>Weinberg, Gerhard (2005). A World In Arms A Global History of World War II. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0521618267. >Weinberg, p. 329. >Weinberg, pp. 329–330. >Weinberg, p. 330.
>>18472245Damn Tojo sounds based. Not sure what he was smoking though
>>18472258Really? Not even his wikipedia page but the wayback machine of a wikipedia page? And the source is just one Jew?
>>18472166gaytler didn't calculate that the power of Bolshevism would genocide all nazitrannies without mercy
>>18472245>Leave the Latinx to me
>>18472258Japanese high command knew they couldn't win a prolonged naval war against the USA, but their aim was to draw the USA into making an over-extended Pacific incursion which could result in a decisive clash and ceasefire which would see America leave them alone and resume oil sales. The idea that they would attempt to take territory in North America is absurd. They wanted East Asian under Japanese hegemony, not fucking Washington and Jamaica, which would be total liabilities even if they could somehow seize them (which they couldn't). Comic book historiography.
>>18472264>And the source is just one Jew?The Japanese wanted to create a Jewish state in Manchuria. >Japan's support of Zionism>Japanese approval came as early as December 1918, when the Shanghai Zionist Association received a message endorsing the government's "pleasure of having learned of the advent desire of the Zionists to establish in Palestine a National Jewish Homeland". It indicated that, "Japan will accord its sympathy to the realization of your [Zionist] aspirations.">This was further explicit endorsement in January 1919 when Chinda Sutemi wrote to Chaim Weizmann in the name of the Japanese Emperor stating that, "the Japanese government gladly takes note of the Zionist aspiration to extend in Palestine a national home for the Jewish people and they look forward with a sympathetic interest to the realization of such desire upon the basis proposed." Japan recognized British policies in Palestine in return for British approval of Japanese control over the Shandong Peninsula in China>Influential Japanese intellectuals including Uchimura Kanzō (1861-1930), Nitobe Inazō (1862-1933), Kenjirō Tokutomi (1868-1927) and professor in colonial policy at Tokyo University, Tadao Yanaihara (1893-1961), were also in support. "The Zionist movement", stated Yanaihara, "is nothing more than an attempt to secure the right for Jews to migrate and colonize in order to establish a center for Jewish national culture", defending the special protection given to the Jews in their quest for a national home based on his conviction that, "the Zionist case constituted a national problem deserving of a nation-state". The Zionist project, including the cooperative modes of agricultural settlements, he saw as a model Japan might emulate
>>18472292>A high-level Japanese government reports on plans for mass emigration to Manchuria in 1936 included references to ethnic conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestine as scenarios to avoid. These influential Japanese policy makers and institutions referred to Zionist forms of cooperative agricultural settlement as a model that Japanese should emulate. By 1940, Japanese-occupied Manchuria was host to 17,000 Jewish refugees, most coming from Eastern Europe>Yasue, Inuzuka and other sympathetic diplomats wished to utilize those Jewish refugees in Manchuria and Shanghai in return for the favorable treatments accorded to them. Japanese official quarters expected American Jewry influence American Far Eastern policy and make it neutral or pro-Japanese and attract badly needed Jewish capital for the industrial development of Manchuria>Post-war, the 1952 recognition of full diplomatic relations with Israel by the Japanese government was a breakthrough amongst Asian nationsThe plot of Riki-Oh's manga isn't so strange when you take that into consideration.
>>18472196>France probably would have been divided between German and Italian spheres of influence too.Hitler deliberately left democratic sentiment unchecked in the occupied areas so post-war France would be weakened long enough for Germany to consolidate its gains, so the assumption was that France would be independent and possibly hostile.
>>18472166>>18472173The Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan line was the initial objective of Operation Barbarossa.
>>18472173>also including Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, and Flanders. The incorporation of other Germanic-speaking countries derives from a claim in Albert Speer's memoirs, published in the 1970's. There is no documentation for the annexation of said countries dating from 1933-1945If you believe countries under the German sphere of influence would have been independent, you relinquish the right to make fun of Churchill for letting Poland fall under the Soviet sphere after the war, because by the same logic Poland would have been independent.
>>18470683Zoom out further.And yes his successors were much more pro British than the Soviets and Americans.
>>18471297>controlWhat control?In a post war scenario where Germany is at peace. Why wouldn’t they withdraw their forces back into Germany?>uhhh they’d enforce a heckin invasive bureaucratic security state on the rest of mainland Europe before going homeOh ok so like they do today. Is England in imminent danger from the EU?
>>18472148No. Germany only went abroad because of the demands of the war.>no chud Hitler was just that dumb randomly declaring war on people because reasonsRight, not the geostrategic reasons of resources and critical geographic points, it was because der nordisce rasse o algo KURWA>>18472469Wa Barbarossa drafted in 1921?
>>18472474They’d have been independent. There is zero evidence to believe the Germans would waste time subduing them in a peace time situation.You are assuming Germany doesn’t want peace and a return to a status quo except with the Danzig question resolved.But Germany did want that according to the only evidence we actually have.
>>18472245>the axis dreamed bigOk so what?You have no evidence they actually wanted a world conquest and Hitler specifically didn’t even want non-German territory. Hitler didn’t even want the colonies lol.
>>18472280If you think about it, they should have known. The ocean is like another steppe, the American navy could always withdraw as quickly as they could overextend, and the Japanese could not ensure a decisive clash.If they had fought the Mongols I think they’d have the intellectual experience in warfare to understand this.
>>18472549>You are assuming Germany doesn’t want peace and a return to a status quo except with the Danzig question resolved.>But Germany did want that according to the only evidence we actually have.If the war was about Danzig they would have just invaded Danzig instead of the entirety of Poland.
>>18472549>wants peace>starts a warFunny how that works.
>>18470683Hitler was as pro-British as he was pro-Polish.That is: only if they did as he liked.
>>18471297Did he never hear about Napoleon?
>>18472469As military objectives, assuming the USSR's government didn't collapse first. That doesn't mean it was the intended eastern border of the German state. >>18472474Zero evidence from 1933-1945 for the intent to create a pan-Germanic European state. After the Polish campaign, Hitler's public statement was: "the Reich is complete." It's also at odds with the doctrine of national socialism. The only support for this comes from Speer's 1970's memoirs.It would be much more effective to establish a federation of European states under German leadership than to forcibly subjugate them. But maybe they were evil crazy people who only did things for the sake of being evil, even if it was contrary to their own interests [cue villainous laughter].>>18472552That was 6 centuries earlier, and didn't take place on the steppe. The Japanese offensive in China turned into a stalemate largely as a result of the American oil embargo (the USA at the time accounted for the MAJORITY of global oil production). They saw their imperial project was gonna die on the vine if they didn't establish energy independence, and the best source for them was Dutch Indonesia. This would result in conflict with the UK and eventually USA, so they decided to go big and roll the dice by attacking all three (Pearl Harbor wasn't the only thing that happened). As they saw it the only other option was to give up and return to a quiet life on their island (and hopefully be left alone by other powers).>>18472627>your central mission is the eradication of bolshevism>spend years courting Poland against the USSR>Poland doesn't trust you, but also trusts the USSR even less>eventually Poland is won over by France/UK>don't sign Molotov-Ribentropp, just attack Poland just to seize the Danzig corridor>still end up at war with France/UK, but now Poland prefers the USSR to you, and UK/France are insisting "Don't sign a peace treaty bro, just keep fighting dog!"
>>18472818>As military objectives, assuming the USSR's government didn't collapse first. That doesn't mean it was the intended eastern border of the German state.What the fuck were they going to do with all that territory then?
>>18472544>Is England in imminent danger from the EU?The EU are the main pushers of the Great Replacement.
>>18472885Federated client states, some SS fiefdoms.
>>18471256The biggest psyop of this thread and it was left completely unanswered.
>>18472550>You have no evidence they actually wanted a world conquestA world where Hitler got his dreams fulfilled (Germany conquers Russia and has the British Empire as an ally [who do everythong Hitler wants, and if not, who csn be pressured into doing what Hitler wants with the resources gained from the conquest of Russia] with whom they can challenge the United States [the base of Internaltional Jewish Finance, who were the ultimate bad guy of Hitler's world view]) would have practicslly been one where Germany was master of the world.>and Hitler specifically didn’t even want non-German territory. Yes he did. And he did. Germans started ethnically cleansing and colonizing Poland as soon as Poland was conquered and were planning the same in Ukrsine and the Baltics. >Hitler didn’t even want the colonies lol.Yes he did. In the East.
>>18472885Return it as soon as the Allies recognize German rule over Danzig.
>>18471297No.He was 'pro-British' because Hitler knew Britain was the one power who could pose a threat. His main concern was to keep Britain out. If Britain doesnt intervene, then France wont intervene, which means Hitler is free to pursue the German ambition in Eastern Europe.His whole 'pro-British' may just have been a ruse to get what he wanted. His main concern was "how can I attack Czechoslovakia / Poland without Britain interfering".It was the main reason why he signed the M-R Pact, to mitigate the possibility of Britain getting involved.
>>18472469No it wasnt.
>>18472166A lot of normies do forget that war with Poland was never pre-planned. It was drafted on a whim in 1939 after negotiations failed, like you pointed out. Historian AJP Taylor was the first to really point this out and got a lot of criticism for it but no one has been able to dispute him. The prevailing normie narrative is still that war was planned all along, and the main argument is "well Hitler insinuated it in Mein Kampf", but the truth is that the Germans kinda stumbled into the war as a consequence to unfolding events, and that once the war was ongoing, it expanded because of reactionary consequences.Hell even the holocaust was reactionary and not pre-planned.
>>18472934>The ultimate objective of the operation is to establish a cover against Asiatic Russia from the general line Volga-Archangel.https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrer_Directive_21
>>18472885You could always just read a book about German rule in Eastern Europe. I recommend Alexander Dallin's 'German Rule in Russia: 1941-1945'. >>18472885You're right when you say it wasn't the intended eastern border of the German nation-state. But it was touted as the hypothetical boundary separating the Greater Reich (i.e. - the empire which includes the German homeland which is administratively separate from its network of tributaries/vassals in Eastern Europe) from whatever remnants of Russian statehood on the Eurasian landmass to the east of it still stood.>>18472907The SS wouldn't have fiefdoms unless you count certain settlements, particularly in Ukraine as fiefdoms. Personally, I wouldn't, since they are not the result of unilateral action by the SS or RKF but rather organized in tandem with the Eastern Ministry and other state organs.
>>18472952>AJP Taylorwasn't aware of this writer. Reading about him now. Interesting stuff about leaders of other states being responsible for WW2, rather than it being a plan of German leaders.
>Germany didn't want to rule other countries>they just wanted them as vassalsHair splitting: the thread.
>>18473653Do you consider modern European states to be sovereign or are they American vassals?
>>18473692American vassals, you believe this as well.And literally every single one of these threads ends up with its resident stormfaggot lamenting how the West has fallen and become vassals/are occupied by Judeo-American mongrels.
