Why was the interwar Polish corridor so controversial when it had been normal for many hundreds of years?
>>18471691Part of the cause is that danzig seems like danzig might be the best town in the region, definitely likely better than berlin, so that making danzig a free city was to close to giving danzig to poland or allowing poland the having of danzig by germany, which again has to be claimed might be one of the best towns in the region
the duchy of prussia was a rump state created after the teutons got raped by poland-lithuania, it was completely dependent on the commonwealth until the hohenzollern line descending from the last teuton grandmaster died out, making the brandenburg hohenzollern inherit the duchy and even then they didn't have complete sovereignty over the place until the end of the second northern war in 1660 and the kingdom of prussia wasn't formed until 1701 so the corridor wasn't bordering the same state on both sides until then, that state of affairs lasted 70 years since the land you refer to as the corridor was annexed by prussia in the first partitionthe duchy of prussia also wasn't part of the HRE, that's why Frederick I could crown himself the King
>>18471731Well it still doesnt change the fact that the corridor has existed for many hundreds and hundreds of years, while Prussia being connected only existed for one hundred years.So why was it so controversial if this was 'normality' of the Polish border.
>>18471777because it wasn't the fact that poland controlled these lands that was the problem, it was the fact that it split another state in two and germany wanted a land connection to ostpreussenyou think hitler wanted that place just to fuck with the poles or something?
>>18471783>you think hitler wanted that place just to fuck with the poles or something?No but you dont seem to get my point.Prussia (or ostpreussen) had historically been seperated from the Berlin state by a Polish corridor more often in history than it had been connected. The seperation was more of a return to normality than it was an abnormality.
>>18471786the thing is that, like I explained in my first post, for the most of that time Prussia and Brandenburg were not a single state so they didn't need to be connected and since the duchy of Prussia was a fief of the commonwealth, Prussian traders had pretty much free access to that land
>>18471801Still doesnt change the fact that they were normally seperated by a Polish territory.This pic will probably serve my point better; the corridor had existed for hundreds and hundreds of years so a Polish state controlling that stretch of land was only a return to normality, regardless of your point over Prussias state governance.
>>18471812The numbers on the pic represents how many years those patches of land had been a part of a Polish state.
>>18471691It wasn't dividing another country in half by taking territory inhabited by its nationals.
>>18471931The majority of people living there in 1918 were ethnic polish. Primarily because it had been Polish for most of history. The Germans were not able to undo 700 years of Polish state territory during the 100 years that it was part of Germany.
>>18471691Railways
>>18471970>ethnic polishKashubian.
>>18471989Sorry ethnic slavs with a Polish dialect to be specific then.
>>18471993Did they have a Polish nationality, as in did they identify with a Polish nation?
>>18471997Im not an expert but they probably saw themselves more as Polish than German, and that's probably how the Prussians/Germans saw then as well post-1795.
>>18471691It was the humiliation that a country that Germans perceived to be subhumans were taking lands from them. for 123 years Poles were treated as a second-class citizens so imagine the seething when the roles suddenly got reversed
>>18471812>but it was polish and Prussia wasn’t apart of GermanyYea so what?Things change.>nooooo history must be a snapshot of Poland at its heightThis is the kind of bad faith revanchism that got your ass kicked out of NATO.Prussia belongs to Germany, all of it.Most of West Poland belongs to Germany.Germany did more with it than the Poles ever did and Germany ultimately is more of a problem if they don’t have it.Realistically what do we lose by shafting the Poles?>its not heckin fairSo what? Geopolitical strategy doesn’t have “fairness” as a calculation.WWII could have been avoided or great decreased in scale if Poland and not Germany had been forced to give up land.Poles didn’t even historically control that land, Lithuania’s royal house did, not Poland.
>>18471970>were ethnic PolishCompletely irrelevant.>all poles must be in PolandNo. Why?It doesn’t matter, it was ruled by Germans and ultimately it became a serious issue for Germans they had to reconnect their country.Why should Poland have it if Poland if Poland can’t do anything with it or anything about someone taking it?Put yourself in Wilson’s shoes. Why should a lesser people who will do nothing but cause diplomatic rows get the land over a more progressive and civil people who will be a huge pain in the ass if they don’t get it but will more than likely be agreeable if they do get it.The sole argument you have now is that famous Slavic fatalism, to say “WWII was destined to happened so trying to avoid it is impossible.” Yeah humans don’t think like that.Giving the land to Poland was a mistake. It took people who had been German nationals out of Germany and gave them to a repressive and aggressive warlord state.These aren’t mere slanders. Poland got into more fights and Poland was not charitable at all to the former Germans.Blood and soil is less relevant than the fact Poland basically stole the land, couldn’t be reasoned with, and used blood and soil ethno nationalist arguments despite themselves being against such things.Germany owned the land.Citizens of Germany owned the land.Nigeria doesn’t have a claim to the American South just because a lot of blacks live there.
>>18472538>it became a serious issue for Germans they had to reconnect their country.>had toWhy?
>>18472538>Poles belongs in Poland>NoThen Germans didnt belong in Germany, so what's the problem?> It took people who had been German nationals out They were Polish and they never wanted to be Germans.And the demographics of that land (the corridor) had been Polish far longer than it had been German.700 years of Polish vs 70 years of being Prussian and 50 years of being German.It just goes to show what 'normality' was. The Polish corridor seperating Prussia was historically the normality.
>>18472533>Things changeagreed
>>18472681>it’s ok when I do itIs it? So you think Germany was in the right and should today press their claims against a weaker non-NATO Poland?I agree.>>18472650Geopolitical necessity. Massive security risk to have a substantial portion of your country cut off from you. Same reason Russia and Poland are in a never ending standoff over Konigsberg.>>18472663>germans didn’t belong in GermanyExplain?>never wanted to he GermansThey were never asked and they didn’t revolt against Germany from 1795 till 1918 so we can assume they were just fine being what they were, German citizens.Poles are an ethnic group of Germany. They don’t belong in a “Poland”. Poland is a fake post war construction.There was no historical Poland, there was the Lithuanian ruled commonwealth governed by the Jagellionids, Lithuanians, and a noble court which had ethnic Poles. But nothing that could be considered a Polish government.>been PolishWhat does this even mean? Poles are a subset of Germans like Sorbs are. Like Hannoverians are.>historically the normalityIt wasn’t. The German state was historically contiguous.Poland pushing for historicity has the logical conclusion of Poles going back to Russia, where they are originally from.
Polack butthurt thread?
>>18473305>They were never asked and they didn’t revolt against Germany from 1795 till 1918 so we can assume they were just fine being what they were, German citizens.Huh. This is the history board no way you can be this dishonest. You have to be baiting.
>>18471970Iirc the Lutheran Poles of southern Prusia voted to join Germany.
>>18471691There was no German state in 1569. The Polish-Lithuanian state wasn't a nation-state. The idea of the nation state didn't exist in 1569.Anything else?
>>18473305>oland is a fake post war construction.>There was no historical Poland,this is russia tier historical revision. are you racemixed by any chance?
>>18473396No, I am pure Northern European.
>>18471783Man, the UK managed to make do with a literal sea of water between Britain and Ireland, France manges Corsica just fine as well, Italy has Sardinia, Spain has Ceuta and the Canaries, Portugal has Madeira and the Azores, the USA has fucking ALASKA, etc....The German chimp out over a tiny little land corridor, through which they had already established a negotiated free-passage zone, was wholly unjustified and childish. This is Europe, we deal with disconnected territories all the time (if you're a Big Boy great power that is!) who fucking cares about the corridor.
>>18473305>it’s ok when I do itUnironcially yes. Might makes right. Even Hitöer would agree.
>>18473305>Geopolitical necessityHvaing sea access was a geopolitical necessity to Poland.
>>18473659No it wasnt.Poland's main trade partners were border states and Poland had no significant maritime presence commercially or militarily.
>>18473305>it’s ok when I do ityes, germs are dogs
