what is the best translation of the odyssey
>>18473192Jacob Polylas
>>18473192You're a retard for thinking you're making some kind of point with this thread when homer gets credited with writing the odyssey and not the muses even though he invoked them
>>18473196no one thinks there was a blind guy called homer who wrote this shit
>>18473192
>>18473197Why not? He's almost as good as Milton
>>18473211Tyrone is more sovlfvl than Wilson
>>18473192Samuel Butler’s
>>18473211This is actually a very intelligent post. Reminds me of this Greg Giraldo bithttps://youtu.be/JTRqi99vg28?si=ve_cxdLEal9gRr5S
Any answer other than Alexander Pope's version is incorrect.
>>18473211Easy way to tell when someone doesn't grasp ebonics is when they don't understand how "be" works
>>18473287a poop
>>18473192localizers vs translator(wilson)
>>18473317Please tell me how πολύτροπον can be translated as "complicated" especially when being used to describe a person.
>>18473321let me get a sacrificial animal and then I will deduct the truth from its insides(no idea so I will delay)
>>18473324>A sacrifice to Spes sometimes works
>>18473328>>18473321well, as I said, I have no idea and the localizers vs translator was a attempt at the /v/ styled joke(not very good as I need to explain it)it just the wilson sounded most mechanical and primitive when three other sounded more elaborated obviously I have no knowledge of ancient greek or modern greek or greek in general now, where I can get a pigeon
This will be the version taught in schools in 10 yearsYo, sing, Muse, of that rage, y’all know the one,Achilles’ big mad tantrum that got so many dudes wrecked.Like seriously, bro lost it cause Agamemnon was acting toxic,Snatched his girl like it was no big deal, classic dude behavior.And then, boom, y’all got warriors dying left and rightBecause two male egos couldn’t chill for one damn minute.So yeah, let’s unpack this,Where even the gods were messy and so not minding their business.
>>18473197>blind guy>hey he included a poet who was blind in his story and he was a poet so he must be blind as well!This is the thinking of a literal child.
I like how the discourse around the Wilson translation just decided it's woke and she hates Odysseus because she's a woman with.... TATTOOS?!??!? when a third of the physical book is her explaining in detail her choices that noone ever brings up (because they saw this one side by side comparison and decided that because it's not as lofty and Shakespearean, it must be wrong).Also where the fuck do that literal faggot Lawrence get "Poesy" from and why is there not a shit storm about him inventing a whole new character?
>>18473585>when a third of the physical book is her explaining in detail her choicesWhy would we care about translator notes from someone who made a bad translation?Wow, she put so much effort into doing a bad job.
>>18473606How is it a bad translation?
Chapman
>>18473192>divine pussyMy vote goes to Lawrence.
>>18473192Emily Wilson feels more like a localization than a translation.
>>18474011She's argued that it was the other way around, with her being closer to the actual Greek and the others being closer to the sort of register expected from a culture that really valorized the classicsI can't read Ancient Greek so I can't evaluate her arguments though.
Speaking of translations, is there any translation that happens to stick to the original ancient Greek color terms and not translate them?
>>18474015Notice how the others are all competing with each other to be more over the top and epic and Shakespearean?
>>18473615No reply. Of course.
>>18474005The guy who wrote about how he used to hang around with naked Arab boys and blew his load when he was being raped by Turks wouldn't know anything about that.
>>18474063Why the fuck would they do that?
>>18473615>>18474273Not him but first of all, you shouldn’t really have strong opinions on what makes a translation “good” if you know nothing of the original language. You can have personal preferences for style, though. I’m going to assume neither of you know anything about greek, so whatever you think makes a translation “good” is entirely personal preference. And I can see why people would prefer something loftier than Wilson, which would better convey the epic nature of the poem, while Wilson sounds like she is zonked out on SSRIs.But let’s look at the accuracy, since someone claimed she was more “accurate.” Accuracy in translation is tricky because translation itself is a creative effort. To render the words literally would sound robotic and stilted, and wouldn’t convey the meaning of the words in the way the author intended.>Άνδρα μοι έννεπε μουσα πολύτροπονLiterally this would be, fixing for word order, “tell me, muse, of the many-turning man”“Many-turning” has so much more implications than how wilson renders it, as merely “complicated.” Turning implies motion. It implies turning the person around. Odysseus is known for both his wandering and his trickery, his many-turns are both in his journey and his character. He presents one face to someone and another face to another. Fagles using the phrase “the man of twists and turns” is not only more literally accurate but has profoundly more depth than calling him complicated.Wilson’s translation feels dead. I do take issue with some of the loftier, Shakespearean stylistic choices of other translators sometimes, which is a hallmark of Victorian grandiosity, which makes them feel dated. But I respect them more than a plainly boring and hardly more “accurate” translation that feels made for high school kids who are too stupid to struggle through anything more complex
>>18474420And even in my very brief example in greek you see how word order is entirely subjective because completely literally it would be“man (acc. sing.) [to] me tell [about] muse, many-turns”Anyone who heedlessly throws around the word “accuracy” regarding translation should immediately be ignored, especially if they don’t even know a lick of the original
>>18474420>>18474439πολυτροπος means of many ways, crafty, resourceful not many-turns. it doesnt make any fuckin sense to translate the tropos part as turns
>>18474451Why lie?
>>18474461filth
I accept your concession
>>18473211Why does every parody of the way blacks talk on here read like a hip hop song from the 80s? Nobody talks like this.
>>18474373The same reason why a lot of translated Japanese works would often choose to not translate specific terms unique to Japan, or why Islamic texts choose not to translate certain Arabic words with specific theological meanings like dīn. Attempts to translate such words would often detract from the original meaning of what was said.In the case of ancient Greek literature, instead of having to interpret translations with odd phrases like "wine-dark sea" or having to deal with translations that make mistakes like "red sheep" just because they don't know how to translate "melas," they could just keep the term "melas" and readers familiar to the ancient Greek color would understand it more readily, connect it to other instances in the text that mention this color (as opposed to "wine-dark," "red," and "black" which present as totally different colors in English), and therefore be able to grasp the original intent of the text a lot better. For a reader who is not familiar with ancient Greek colors, this would serve as an opportunity to learn more about ancient Greece and the literature they are reading. It's not even that hard to learn. It's a win-win.
I've actually chosen Emily Wilson as my go to. She correctly translates the word 'slave' as slave and her translation is about showing the ancient for what it is rather than trying to make relevant or palpable to a modern world. That includes all the ugliness.
>>18473192>what is the best translation of the odysseythe one that translates xanthos as tawny/light instead of yellow/blond, eukomos as lovely-haired instead of fair-haired, and helikopis as lively eyed instead of bright eyed
>>18475051Nobody wants to learn lesser languages and its not really a good idea to try and force the issue, anything other than English represents an objective step backward for the zeitgeist of mankind.
>>18475517>helikopisdo they really take this word to mean light coloured eyes? is that why the we wuzzers say all the time that they read about blue eyes and such in ancient texts? fucking hell.
>>18473615I don't like it, read like some hack job by low tier chat bot
>>18475517xanthos is golden/blond, but it's not static as Odysseus gets an upgrade
>>18475585>goldenand whats khrusos?
>>18473192You just know the three to the left of Wilson were buggered in some cushty private school TE Lawrence is literally the reason we now have muslim terrorism in the west due to the rise of Wahabism
>>18475591Actual gold/golden
>>18473192The obsession that 19th and early 20th century translators had with making everything sound like Shakespeare was outstandingly retarded. They butchered dozens of foreign holy texts to make them seem Shakespearean. The Poetic Edda in particular got hit with a sledgehammer by these types.
>>18473192For English, its Robert Fagles. Older English translations might technically be more accurate, but Fagles set out to make it more digestible to modern (written in the 1990s) at the time. If you're reading these things for the first time I would highly suggest these and reading the forward by Bernard Knox. It does all this, but without losing the actual poetry of the prose too and doesnt go into crude normie territory or project "updated" morals on it. I think stuff like Popes translation is too academic and it becomes meaningless much in the long term trying to read it, especially for the first time. You see these books everywhere in every book store, they are easily available, and they are cheap.
>>18473585There is a segment of academics which Wilson is a part of that is openly engaging in a "culture war" over the classics. They saw right wingers using old greek statues as their pfp and went into overdrive to make. I think youre just ignorant of whats going on, especially when Wilson herself described The Iliad as a story "about toxic masculinity"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwmLMu1yH6U
