Are Russians ashamed that they lost all of this 30 years ago without a single shot?
Most of these countries are still in their sphere of influence
Yes. Gorbachev was worse than Hitler. If this was a just world he would have been couped and then tortured to death live on television before he could allow the republics to secede.
>>18478745Yeah he went full retard by dissolving the USSR, basically crippling a healthy, sovereign nation.Poland and the other shitholes leaving was inevitable but it will always be a great mystery why he touched the core USSR itself and destroyed it, something not even Hitler accomplished.
>>18478712russia isn't actually that big. stupid mercator projection
>>18478738They're literally fighting a war with one of those countries to get it back in their sphere of influence. And they're failing. Kazakhstan is only steadily
>>18478755*Kazahkstan is also steadily moving away from russia.
>>18478712Russians never owned it, actually it were them who were owned by the bolshevik regime which treated them not any better than other occupied nations. Being "russian" whatever that means and feeling bad about the collapse of the USSR means being retarded.
>>18478745>>18478751whats with /his/ and tankie larpers?
>>18478712Mind you, Gorby was the only Russian to rule over the USSR and everything immediately went to shit under him
>>18478776There's nothing tankie about it. Gorbachev ruined the fucking world. USSR could have potentially reformed into a market socialist China sort of thing and dumped eastern europe and become a functioning modern state, instead he doomed it to decades of poverty and to becoming a revanchist hellhole.
>>18478785If Gorbachev wasn't a retard, there would be no war in Ukraine. Millions would still be alive/non-crippled.
>>18478778Brezhnev
>>18478751>Poland >the other shitholes [Baltics probably]>consistently has higher QoL than Soviet loyalist states like Belarus and MoldovaAre we deadass
>>18478712no, tax drains just like chechnya nowadays
>>18478785the USSR was fundamentally evil so anything less than its destruction is radical
>>18478826>Soviet loyalist states like MoldovaAre we living in the same reality?They literally had separatist "soviet" republic in their borders since 90ies
>>18478826Name one point in the last 75 years when Poland wasn't living off of Soviet or EU gibs. The only good decision Gorbachev made was letting Poland go because it was a money pit
>>18478785>the economy are not so bad now, so y’all peripheric peoples need to forget about those self-rule and free speech stuff
>>18478785>it could have reformed into dictatorship that guns down protesters but he ruined itYou're such a retarded tankie
>>18479123Has there ever been a more useless race than poles?
>>18479163>>18479545The world would surely be a better place today if China had given the wiggers and dalai lama their own countries and adopted democracy for 10 years just to collapse back into autocracy while now being poor
>>18478712it's only the boomerites who care about this (including putler). anyone born in the 1980s and after doesn't really give a shit about it and would rather have the federation territority fixed and developed, but the subhuman IQ boomerites usurped power and we have what we have.
>>18478712The average Russian at the time wanted nothing to do with it anymore. Nostalgia for it simply comes from a time when Russia = big = STRONK.
>>18478771You're retarded. Every single one of 15 republics were ruled directly from Moscow.t. georgian
>>18478785gorby never even had the chance to ruin the world, his rule saw one decaying asiatic shithole fall apart, nothing moregood riddance to bad rubbish>>18479123from having to reject marshal plan and exit wto to participating in cmea being in warsaw pact was nothing but a drain on polish economy similar to how being in eau is a drain of the economies of all the countries that haven't bailed yet
>>18478712The average russian doesn't really care beyond being boastful about muh power and might. Seeking independence stems from being subjugated.This is why the ussr was bound to fail, if the ussr was less centralised and more akin to the European Union (but more federal), it would've lasted longer.
>>18479621maybe in asia, european subjects detested being part of it
>>18478745>one more murder would have stopped every soviet vassal from breaking free all at once>>18478751>USSR was doing great at the end>>18478778>non-Russians ruled the USSR until it collapsed suddenly>>18478785>China is doing great and Russia could have emulated their success>>18478808>if Gorby had invaded Ukraine then Putin wouldn't have needed to and so everyone would still be aliveThis is bait. It's all bait. It has to be bait.
>>18479626Huh? That's what I was saying, yes Unless I misunderstood what you're referring to
>>18479631there's both cis and eaeu which are in essence an asian eu so in practice the fall of soviet union brought exactly what you say would've prevented it fall
>>18479640>here's both cis and eaeu which are in essence an asian euNot even remotely close to the eu >cisThis is just "oh fuck Soviet Union is over but we have some leftover ties, how do we deal with them">eaeuNice in practice but it consists of Russia, a Russian puppet state, Kazakhstan and 2 literally who's. Also hardly close to the integration of the EU and effectively abandoned
USSR would've collapsed in the early 21st century even without Gorbachev's perestroika or glasnost. Centrally planned economy was just failing.
>>18479652I believe central planning can actually work, but it basically needs a supercomputer and insane amounts of information as well as zero privacy for each citizen. Assuming these preconditions are true, I would actually agree it's better than capitalism
>>18478778The humble Yuri Andropov would disagree.>>18478809Besides being the culmination of Ivanov's Ape-man Hybrid experiments, I am afraid he was also Ukrainian. Some people have told me that if the other guy (Shelpin) had been premier and not Brezhnev there's a high chance the USSR wouldn't have collapsed when it did, they were communist so it may have been cope.
>>18479652That could have been easily corrected without too much effort if they were just willing to do it.
>>18478712The world is changing, subjugating smaller nations is no longer seen as something to take pride in, that's why most of the colonial empires failed
>>18479672instead we should form nations on anime girls' feet
>>18478738The CIS hasn't met since like 1993, Kazakhstan and Belarus are though
>>18478745>>18478751Read a fucking book, Gorby did everything he could to not allow the republics to secede. He's responsible for hundreds of deaths and should've been arrested for his bloody attempts to save the Union.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Januaryhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_9_tragedyholy shit, ""history"" board knows nothing about history
>>18479568Which is better.
>>18479752Don't blame them, this is basically a putinist retcon to bemoan the fall of the Soviet Union. It's easier to mythologize the Soviet Union when you say "Gorbachev destroyed the Soviet Union" vs "The Soviet Union was retarded so it fell apart"
>>18478785Gorbachev was trying to save the USSR. Remember the coup a bunch of KGB spook hardliners launched that threw a grenade into the works and caused the final breakdown of the whole project.
>>18478712They lost so much more land and people without a single bullet fired than they did in a bloody world war and Brest-Litovsk which was considered a Versailles level of brutally imposed peace. Lmfao.
>>18478712>Ukraine, most significant state other than Russia itselfliterally fighting a bloody war>Baltic statesFull NATO>MoldovaEU leaning>AzerbaijanTurkey>ArmeniaSpit roasted in Turko-Azeri sphere>Georgia close balancing act between Russia and EU>Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan Increasingly hedging with China>TurkmenistanisolationistOnly Belarus is firmly within it
