>>18479249
I read it a few years back so I don't remember which translation. It was kinda schizo. Also yeah I've read the whole Bible. Much better and also inspired, unlike the Koran which is from Satan. Remember, Mo was a pedophile who got zutted.

>>18479259
How very rude, are these teachings espoused by Jesus Christ, or just his believers?

unlike you,
>Revile not those unto whom they pray, apart from God, lest they revile God in hostility, without knowledge. So We have decked out fair to every nation their work; then to their Lord they shall return, and He will tell them what they have been doing - 6:108 (Qur'an by A. J. Arberry)

Hello, Buddhist here. Buddhists read many different texts depending on the branch (or "vehicle") and school. To over-simplify,
Within Theravada, you'll read the Tipitaka and various discourses on it.
Within Mahayana, you'll read a fuckton of sutras written by people a long time after the Buddha died.
Within Vajrayana, you'll read various sadhanas and some sutras.
Within Navayana, you'll read "The Buddha and His Dhamma" and people will want to kill you on the internet.
Within Nichiren, you'll mostly read the Lotus sutra.
Within Chan (you might know it better as "Zen"), you'll read various koan and some sutras.
Within secular Buddhism, you'll mostly read stuff by Stephen Bachelor and people will want to kill you on the internet.
Within Dhammakaya, you'll read whatever it is that teaches you how to rape people.

>>18479249
>Translations
The Quran is only in arabic. You didnt read it.

>>18479249
>Read!
Maybe you should do that, OP, because iqra' means "recite!" in sura 96's context.
The Qur'an - the recitation - only really became a written text later, to handle the saj' prose of suwar like Al-Imran and Nisa.

>>18480270
Anon I got it verbatim from the M. A. S. Abdul Haleem Oxford press translation. He's a professor of Islamic Studies at the University of London. It's probably one of the most popular translations ever after clearQuran (Dr. Mustafa Khattab), and A.J. Arberry

In my opinion, a good translation shouldn't aim for strict "static equivalence" with Arabic, out of fear of deviation or loss of meaning. You can't preserve coherence and flow that way.
In today's world the same rigid criterias for preservation don't apply, with tafsir, cross-referencing in multiple languages, dictionary available at your fingertips.
>The Quran is only in arabic. You didnt read it
It is a message for humanity, you only need arabic knowledge for texual hermeneutics.

>>18479249
>Which translation
Good question. There are so many different ways to recite/interpret the message.

>>18479249
The Clear Quran

>>18479259
Truth hurts..

>>18479249
>Have you read the Holy Quran?
Yes.
>Which translation
I do not know.
>Have you read any other holy book like Bible, Torah, Morman, Gita, GGS, Avesta and I don't know what buddhists read.
I read the Bible, which contains the Torah.
>what did you think of it?
I understood the appeal of it but it is very dangerous.

I was bored the other day and tried to read it but the 300 "praise allah, O ALLAH, Allah is the best you guys, follow Allah pls, this book is from Allah btw" made me bored quick so I stopped

>>18479249
I read the Quran, don’t recall which translation. I’ve also read the Bible and Uppashaids.


The Quran has some very pretty surahs, I liked Ar-Rahman in particular. In comparison to the Bible, it doesn’t have a narrative, is not ethically or morally consistent, and it always seems very contingent for Whatever Was Bothering Muhammad Right now.


The Uppashaids are incredibly neurotic and the most body-loathing piece of work I’ve ever read. I do not understand homosexuals / atheists as latching on Buddhism as being more vital or “life-affirming” than Christianity.

>>18481458
>but it is very dangerous
Can you please say a bit more anon

>>18481633
It is the afterlife. When you're given an reward that is potentially infinite (or, more rather, a punishment that is infinite), it'll circumvent your reasoning. All of a sudden you start thinking to yourself "Perhaps, it is worth it. Perhaps, I have to do this." and you'll forget the things that are important here in this life. It's a form of seduction that is really dangerous. Especially for those who are already mentally vulnerable and want to latch themselves on something that'll give them hope.

Same in Christianity, in my opinion. Any religion that relies on some sort of afterlife is pure poison.

>>18481705
>that are important here in this life
Yes anon but the book categorically rejects extreme asceticism or self-denial in persuit of the hereafter/the afterlife.
>Seek the Hereafter with what Allah has given you, but do not forget your share of the world - 28:77 (clearQuran)
>We sent Jesus, Son of Mary, and granted him the gospel, and instilled compassion and mercy into the hearts of his followers. As for monasticism, they made it up- we never ordained it for them - seeking only to please God - 57:27 (clearQuran)

But it simultaneously warns against being consumed by this Ephemeral life, sternly rebuking attachment to the world, chasing material riches and possessions. Described as mere fleeting things,
Chapter 100 - Charging steeds (M. A. S. Abdul Haleem)
>The charging steeds that pant, and strike sparks with their hooves, raiding at dawn, raising a cloud of dust, and plunging into the midst of the enemy lines,
>--Man is ungrateful to his Lord and He is witness to this, he is truly excessive in his love of wealth/the world.
>Does he not know that when the contents of graves burst forth, when the secrets of hearts are uncovered, on that Day, their Lord is to be fully aware of them all?
An imagery of a violent battlefield is set up, with the charging horses, panting, sparks flying, raising of dust, and confronting enemy lines.
Without transition, God turns from the steeds to the state of man. Man too is charging, single-mindedly and relentlessly towards his attachment of worldly desires; he is consumed by his persuit.
It draws a contrast with the charging steed, which is loyal to the command of its master [man], but Man endowed with reflection, drives [himself] towards fleeting things. He is a witness against himself. He knows deep down, he is ungrateful to his Lord.

>>18481750
It is impossible to serve two masters. Either you are rooted in this life and accept death or you're trying to cope with the inescapable and be manipulated. Additionally, in the early history of Islam, the faith required the believers to be martyred. Think of the battles of Badr or Uhud, for example. It'll never be ethical to demand that from people. It is manipulation.

In my opinion, obedience to God is to accept what he has created. And, evidently, he created death. In a sense, Muslims are correct, when they say that the faith is a test. It is true. It is testing, if you are able to resist the seduction of eternity. In fact, it is reminiscent of the incident in the garden of Eden. Do you want to be immortal? Do you want to be equal to God? Or are you going to accept that you'll not be and that you'll die?

>>18481750
>and instilled compassion and mercy into the hearts of his followers
If you really believed this, you'd not evangelize. The afterlife is an instrument of torture.

>>18481750
Continued..
It implores you to observe and reflect on the beauty of all Allah has created
>Do they not look at the sky above them-how We built it and adorned it…And the earth-We spread it out and placed firm mountains… and caused to grow every delightful kind…(50:6-8)

However, warns against becoming consumed by the beauty of creation, that you may forget the creator
>When well-bred light-footed horses were
paraded before him near the close of day, he kept saying, ‘My love of fine things is part of my remembering my Lord!’ until [the horses] disappeared from sight–
>‘Bring them back!’ [he said] as he (or pass his hand over) started to stroked their legs and necks.
>We certainly tested Solomon, reducing him to a mere skeleton on his throne. He turned to Us and prayed: ‘Lord forgive me' (38:29-34)
He does not like the transgressors (2:190). Life is neither something to be renounced, nor something to be indulged in. As far as I understand

>>18479249
I've read all of the relevant ones, none of them fully satisfy me. The closest was probably the one in the study quran.
I just use pickthal's translation, but I don't enjoy his use of brackets like most translations. It continuously adds premodern context like clarifying a verse is addressed towards mohammad, but 99% of these verses can be addressed to anyone and not just him. It ruins the mood of the original.

>>18481793
>>18481871
The solomon verses here are hard to translate but I think that skeleton one is especially off. The verse is most likely talking about the talmudic account of solomon's throne being taken over by a demon, this was the commonly reported interpretation among early muslims too.

>The 'jasad' meaning 'body' which is set upon Solomon's throne is used in the golden calf narrative ‘a body (jasad) that lows’ (Q 7:148, 20:88) as well as denying that any prophet prior to Muhammad was a mere jasad who neither ate nor drank (Q 21:8).

>This gives the identification of the "jasad" which has the appearance of a body but is either not alive or fully human. Hence this seems to match the Talmudic accounts where the Jasad seems to be the demon Ashmedai (ʾšmdʾy) who takes Solomon's kingdom by imitating his form (b. Git. 68a-b). In the Talmudic accounts Solomon's desire to build a temple results in the subjugation of demons including Ashmedai who is then able to capture his throne.

>The Qur'anic narrative has these events reversed with the Jaad preceding Solomon's repentance and his subsequent power of the demons who are the expert builders (bannāʾ) and divers (ghawwāṣ), for the pearls (vv. 34–38).

>Due to the Talmudic accounts the rabbis were unsure following Ashmedai's usurpation of Solomon's throne whether Solomon would have regained his power. In contrast the Qur'anic narrative of Solomon which parallels the Davidic narrative in terms of repentance has Solomon after his repentance followed by a confirmation of his worldly power which expands his worldly authority.

>Source- Hussain, Saqib. "Divine Kingship: David, Solomon, and Job in Sūrat Ṣād (Q 38)". In Theology of Prophecy in Dialogue.

Also worth noting an earlier account of this story has an angel of god taking the throne temporarily instead of a demon while solomon is tested.

>>18481784
>Either you are rooted in this life and accept death or you're trying to cope with the inescapable and be manipulated.
I don't know why it's impossible, i'd say that's the reason the Qur'an was sent down as guidance.
for your evangelizing point as well, in recognition of the divine (your creator doesn't cease to exist because you shut your eyes) you must re-orient your life. It is compassion, that you aren't led astray, and pursue only material and carnal pleasures.

And (you)'re coping, avoiding confronting the question whether your intuitions about meaning and finality of life are true.
>Does man think We shall not put his bones back together? In fact, We can reshape his very fingertips. Yet man wants to deny what is ahead of him: he says, 'So, when will this Day of Resurrection be?' (75:1-6)
>Martyrdom
I won't address this, you're insulting me
>obedience to God is to accept what he has created. And, evidently, he created death.
Yes, and in recognition of that how do you act? what are you doning with the limited time you’ve been given?
Chapter 103 - decling day (clearQuran)
>By the declining day surely man is in loss,
Human life is quietly but constantly wasting away. Man is a passive witnesses to his loss, in persuit of worldly pleasures and trivial banalities.
>save for those who do believe, do righteous acts, counsel one another towards the truth, and counsel each other to patience.
But those who anchor themselves toward the truth (of God) and hold each other (the collective) firm through hardship, together, turn that loss into something meaningful

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>>18481874
> While many quranic scholars have argued that b. Gittin 68b and the story of Solomon being deposed in the demon Ashmedai taking his place may have served as an influence upon the story of Solomon and the horses in the Quran, this particular story in the Jerusalem Talmud has been ignored in these discussions. Although there are several differences (most notably references to Solomon actually petting horses, expressing regret over his actions and repenting of them), we can see that the three story beats in y. Sanhedrin 2.6.1-7 seem to mirror those in the Quran: mention of horses, mention of material wealth / the good things of this world and an image placed upon the throne of Solomon.

Although the story of Solomon being deposed in the Babylonian Talmud has enjoyed considerable popularity as a possible influence upon Sura 38, we can see from this earlier story that the idea of an image being placed upon Solomon's throne clearly predated the composition and compiling of the Babylonian Talmud and the Quran.

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>>18481879

>ackchually it's very important for my followers to all eternity how one should behave in Muhammad's house
Kek Islam is pretty funny

>>18481871
>It continuously adds premodern context like clarifying a verse is addressed towards mohammad, but 99% of these verses can be addressed to anyone and not just him
I agree, the Qur'an does that to address the reader through him. Like in the morning brightness (I love this chapter), in its immediate context, it's about prophet Muhmmad (pbuh) not receiving revelation and feeling like he's been abandoned, but it speaks to a normal person as well, who's expresses these doubts
"Is God there?"
"Has he abandoned me"
"Does he hate me?"

It seems to also use morning light as a symbol of hope before the stillness of the night, a quiet uncertainty and loneliness of the heart,
Chapter 93 - Morning Brightness
>By the morning light, and by the night when it grows still, your Lord has not forsaken you, nor does He hate you,
>The future will be better for you than your past; your Lord will give you so much more until you are satisfied.
>Did He not find you an orphan and shelter you? Did He not find you lost and guide you? Did He not find you in need and make you self-sufficient?
>So do not be harsh to the orphan and do not chide the one who asks you for help; Instead share the blessing of your Lord.
And I like how this reassurance is then extended outwards as moral responsibility,
as you have received his grace you shall, through you let those in need find respite; feed the poor and destitute, help those who too are lost, by calling them to your lord.

>>18479249
>Have you read the Holy Quran
No and after having to grow up around Pakistanis I never will.

>>18481899
Like the other anon said. Those accounts are sometimes personal, but mostly about extracting lessons.
That particular one was also about normative social etiquette. It's simply suggesting you don't overstay as a guest at someone's house, think, perhaps your host is too shy or polite to ask you to leave?

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>>18479249
koran is a pile of shit only good for burning

>>18481874
>>18481879
>>18481883
Thank you anon, you are very knowledgeable

>>18481875
>I don't know why it's impossible
Matthew 6:24 explains it.

>It is compassion
Having people kill themselves for your power, is not "compassion".

Read John 18:10-11 and compare it with Muhammad.

>And (you)'re coping, avoiding confronting the question whether your intuitions about meaning and finality of life are true.
I confronted it and I found it to be not evidenced. In fact, I found it to be unhealthy. Hence, I rejected it. By the way, there is no *explicit* mention of the "afterlife" in the Torah. Does the Quran not command you to read the Torah? Do it. Read.

>Does man think We shall not put his bones back together? In fact, We can reshape his very fingertips. Yet man wants to deny what is ahead of him: he says, 'So, when will this Day of Resurrection be?' (75:1-6)
There is no "we".

>what are you doing with the limited time you’ve been given?
I do not have to "do" anything. In fact, I am not doing anything. I am playing my part in the game that God is playing. If I want to or not. After all, God is omnipotent.

>in persuit of worldly pleasures and trivial banalities
It's all that there is. For all we are *allowed* to know. God commands us to adhere to the truth. Al-haqq. The truth, in turn, is known to us by evidence. This is what I am doing. I am adhere to the truth to the best of my abilities.

>But those who anchor themselves toward the truth (of God) and hold each other (the collective) firm through hardship, together, turn that loss into something meaningful
First, God and the truth is one. There is no truth of God and truth of something else. No. There is only the God, which is the truth. Hence, God is accessible to us, when we are researching. There is no need for a *revelation*. Secondly, the "collective"? The individual is more important than the "collective" is and you are poisoning them. The "collective" has to understand that they're not that important. Which is why they are condemned to death. Once and for all.

>>18481932
why did he not tell humanity about germ theory instead of THIS??

>>18481961
Chapter 107 small kindness (M. A. S. Abdul Haleem)
>Have you seen him who cries lies to the judgement/moral responsibility?
>It is he who repulses the orphan, and urges not the feeding of the needy.
>Woe to those that pray, who are heedless of their prayer,
>those who make a show, and forbid small kindnesses
You're merely using christianity as a wrapper for your own regressive beliefs, while engaging in performative ritualism at the church. It won't win you the seat the truth, in presence of the most high.
Are you trying to deceive Jesus or only yourself?
>We created man, and We know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein 50:16 (clearQuran)
God curses hollow prayers made without reflection, as the hearts forbid the small kindnesses.

>>18481932
>That particular one was also about normative social etiquette
Ah yes, the normative social etiquette of *checks notes* no small talk, hiding behind a curtain when talking to the wife and

>>18481987
>Having people kill themselves for your power
I see your inclination now, sorry i bothered

>>18482011
And NEVER EVER REMARRY HIS WIVES!!! This is very important, the prophet is shy so I'm god telling you this myself (lmao)

>>18482011
Yeah? It doesn't seem to be trivial, the Qur'an covers a wide range of social ethics.
>Do not say to them ‘uff’ (a word of irritation), nor repel them, but speak to them noble words (17:23)

Also these kinda social ethics are found across scriptures
>When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace be to this house.’ If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them…Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you…Do not move around from house to house.” -Luke 10:5-7 (New Testament)
>You must go outside the camp, dig a hole, and cover your excrement -Deuteronomy 23:12-13 (Old Testament)
>>18482014
In a tribal society, marrying the widow of an important political and spiritual leader opens yourself up to claims of direct succession and legitimacy. Entire warring clans could form around the widows, and his legacy needed to be protected from this.
Even though wives of the prophet (pbuh) had more constrained rights of marriage, they had a deeper role to play in society, as narrators and moral exemplars
>Wives of the Prophet, you are not like any other woman
>The Prophet is more
protective towards the believers than they are themselves, while his
wives are their mothers (33)

>>18479249
Bump

>>18479249
>>18479263
Muhammad (piss be upon him) was raped by Zutts. Zutt Zutt in the butt!

>>18481481
>The Uppashaids are incredibly neurotic and the most body-loathing piece of work I’ve ever read. I do not understand homosexuals / atheists as latching on Buddhism as being more vital or “life-affirming” than Christianity.

There's a pattern where
>Only bitter sexless autists who hate the idea that anyone anywhere might at some point be happy, would ever willingly become a monk/imam/whatever.
>All religious rules and doctrines are written by monks/imams/whatever.
>All religious rules and doctrines are bitter, anti-sex, and autistic.
It doesn't hurt that by declaring a fundamental and unavoidable aspect of human existence and connection evil, you can lock the rubes into an endless cycle of easily exploitable guilt to which only you provide an outlet for relief.

>>18479249
I read The Clear Quran by Dr. Mustafa Khattab.

Got it for free when I visited a random mosque a few times to see what it was like. Found it incredibly uninspiring, dull, repetitive, excessive with threats, and all around mundane. Don't see the appeal of it.

I really don't believe that people become Muslims from reading the Quran, they decide to become Muslims first and then they read the Quran and tell themselves they like it because they have to.

On a side note, the imam of that mosque was pretty chill. He was open to having long discussions with me after prayer and was a very intellectual man despite being a Salafi. He didn't like any of the fiqh schools but really, really hated the Hanafi school, can't remember what he said as to why but I do remember he went on and on about his dislike of it. Of course with him being Salafi, he found the Hanbali the least disagreeable but didn't seem to identify with it.

As for other religious texts I've read: The Bible (KJV, NRSV, NIV), Torah (JPS, Alter), Bhagavad Gita (Easwaran, ISKCON), Book of Mormon, Divine Principles, and most Scientology books except Handbook for Preclears, Clear Body; Clear Mind, and 8-8008.

The Bhagavad Gita was the most inspiring of them all and the Quran was the least. Divine Principles was the most confusing though.

>>18481961
Don't burn it, just throw it in the trash. Burning is the second most respectful way to dispose of it, after burial. Do not give it respect it does not deserve.

>>18482800
I see.
were there any chapters or verses that you liked from the Quran (clearQuran)?

fuck the quran idc and fuck everyones religiom you guys can piss of

>>18482846
Why did you enter this thread? Are you some popular namefag on this board, that I need to be aware of? strutting about here, like a peacock flaunting it's feathers to attract its mate. Leave my thread, before you get the taste of my shoe.

>He frowned and turned away when the blind man came to him–for all You know, he might have grown in spirit, or taken note of something useful. For the self satisfied one you go out of your way–
>you are not to be blamed for his lack of growth–but from the one who has come to you full of eagerness and awe you allow yourself to be distracted.
>No indeed! This is a lesson from which those who wish to be taught should learn.
Chapter 80 - He frowned (M. A. S. Abdul Haleem)

>>18482870
Why are Muslims so obsessed with shoes lmao

>>18481987
>Matthew 6:24 explains it.
Misreading of what i said.
>In fact, I am not doing anything. I am playing my part in the game that God is playing. If I want to or not. After all, God is omnipotent.
Something I want to address,
>Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. 33:72 (Qur'an by M. Pickthall)
These immense creations of power, size, and majesty were offered the crushing weight of free will, and they feared the consequences. They preferred to remain in involuntary obedience to God.
But man, a frail servant in comparison carries the Trust of god (free will, moral agency and intellect). He is therefore accountable and has to answer as the scales are laden. He has been unjust and he has been ignorant of this.
>And a soul and Him Who perfected it, And inspired it (with rebellion/conscience of) what is wrong for it and (what is) right for it, He is indeed successful who causeth it to grow, And he is indeed a failure who stunteth it - 91:7-10 (M. Pickthall)
You can't both be a quiet observer without moral agency and still claim to make judgements based on empirical evidence, where's the rationality?
>There's no "we"
It's called a plural of majesty, not multiplicity of God
>First, God and the truth is one
True. I apologise.

>Al-haqq
>We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth (Al-haqq)
True But,
>You do not see any flaw in the creation of the Most Merciful. Return your vision - do you see any breaks? Then return your vision twice again - your sight will return humbled while it is fatigued (67:3-4)
God invites you see across and within yourself,
>Were they created from nothing? Or were they the creators of themselves? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain (52:35-36)

>>18482946
>The Hour draws near and the moon has split. Yet when they see a sign, they turn away and say; prolonged illusion.
>They deny, chasing their desires- but every matter is destined to settle. enough news has come to restrain them, profound wisdom-yet warnings avail nothing. 54:1-6 (clearQuran)
>>18482888
Well why not?

The Quran is a manual on how to treat Muhammad with kid gloves and to indulge all the various psychosis he has
And Muhammad is now dead
So what's left is pretending other people are Muhammad for the rest of your life and treating them as such, lest they throw autistic fits like he did