1)there are upsides (stress relief, sedation) and downsides (lower lifespan, lung disease) to smoking2)doctors prioritise the patients' health over simple pleasure, only exceptions being things like terrible pain or something that would drive one to suicide ie things you can't live with.3)there are upsides (delivery) and downsides (depression, obesity) to pregnancy4)the upsides of both smoking and pregnancy are fleeting pleasures that people can and do comfortably live without, while the downsides are potentially serious health issues4.5)doctors already caution against smoking for these reasons Conclusion: doctors should caution AGAINST pregnancy.
>>18479511I would just disagree with P3 and P4, hence I would disagree with the justification for CThe reason for P3 is that depression and obesity only really come when the women is healthy and lives in unnatural and stressful environments, which can be avoided with proper planning.The reason for P4 is that you assume that pregnancy is fundamentally, a fleeting and short lasting pleasure (I am a bit confused when you say this as I assume you are talking sex and how thats fleeting (although I can see arguments on how the emotional/mental factors produced by sex are long lasting and significantly more impactable than the physical factors), because I struggle how to see just being pregnant is pleasurable other than you are creating a child (which links to my later point); is there some "feel good hormone" women produce while they are pregnant which I am unaware of? Possibly.), But this fails to take into a account the later fulfilment which they will achieve from birthing and raising a child.>Conclusion: doctors should caution AGAINST pregnancy.I can see some other justifiable reasons for this conclusion other than your reason. i.e. health problems, environmental factors, mental factors, etc
>>18479649Antenatal depression and postnatal depression are not, or at least can't be shown to be, related to diet or whatever other factors you mentioned.https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/mental-health-in-pregnancy-and-after-the-birth/depressionAnd even if that were the case, nobody can predict if those factors don't become real in your life over the next 9 months or so.A doctor wouldn't recommend you start drinking based on the idea that if everything in your life goes great until the end of time, you'll likely be fine.
>>18479884ummm well to be honest I really haven't heard of anyone who has been depressed because they are pregnant, and i would know as I have a lot of women in my life.This might just be some Uk thing desu, everyone there is miserable anyways.Also only around 12% of women experience antenatal depression while only 10% experience potential depression; with the right care/assistance and support I believe it will be fineDo you have any objections to my objections to P4?
>>18479890postnatal depression*
>>18479511I mean purely from a self-preservation standpoint yes you shouldn't get pregnant, so your premise isn't false per se. It's more a societal thing where the propagation of your lineage is considered an acceptable (and even necessary) tradeoff regarding health, so instead of advising against pregnancy, medicine and doctors try to improve the pregnancy experience.
>>18479649>>18479890Yeah sorry I was in a bus and had to change.>well to be honest I really haven't heard of anyone who has been depressed because they are pregnant, and i would know as I have a lot of women in my life.I told this to my female friend some months ago and she was already familiar with this information. I found out online. I don't know how common awareness for pregnancy caused depression is but that's not really relevant to it being a real affliction. Trite example but construction workers didn't know asbestos was harmful for like a decade, doesn't mean it wasn't harming people during that time. Doctors all agree, it's not at all controversial that it's real.As per your other objection, i was actually referring to the entire process of delivery nurturing the child and so on. None of that has positive effects on the mother's health. Additionally, whatever happiness can be derived from the experience post-birth can be gained just as well via adoption, with no health risks whatsoever. If there is some pleasure hormone associated with delivery I don't know, but clearly something (i'm guessing social factors and maternity leave but that is purely a guess) motivates women to give birth over adoption, so that's why I phrased it this way. Either way, what I said, i think, applies both to the pregnancy+delivery process and everything positively that follows directly from that.
>>18479890Oh and as for the number, idk what percentage or smokers develop lung cancer but even if it was 5%, that would be enough to warrant the unavoidable warnings they come with.
>>18479952>Yeah sorry I was in a bus and had to change.all good brother>I don't know how common awareness for pregnancy caused depression is but that's not really relevant to it beingYea same, I only believed it was mood swings, but to keep it between me and you; you know how women are, they develop a slight mood swing outside of their period and make a huge fuss about >Trite example but construction workers didn't know asbestos was harmful for like a decade, doesn't mean it wasn't harming people during that time. Doctors all agree, it's not at all controversial that it's real.Yea but pregnancy isn't anything like asbestos, when you get pregnant its not like a ticking time bomb gets set off and activates after 30 year; 99% of women get pregnant, give birth and nothing happens, there isn't really any significant advance effects from getting pregnant.>As per your other objection, i was actually referring to the entire process of delivery nurturing the child and so on. None of that has positive effects on the mother's health.yea but as 100 mothers what was the best thing that happened to them, they will either say getting married or having their baby; there is great primordial fulfilment from nurturing a child and watching them grow up. I believe if they have the proper resources nurturing a child into an adult is a net positive.>Additionally, whatever happiness can be derived from the experience post-birth can be gained just as well via adoption, with no health risks whatsoever.You probably don't know, but there is a reason why people only really adopt when they cant physically give birth; there is something innate with all of us to pass down our genes, also I'm pretty sure there are study's showing how adopted children get treated worse then their genetic counterparts. Also I for one would much preferer having my child as my own other than adopting one>If there is some pleasure hormone associated with delivery I don't know, 101% no[1/2]
>>18480049>but clearly something (i'm guessing social factors and maternity leave but that is purely a guess) motivates women to give birth over adoption, so that's why I phrased it this wayNo I'm believe its a majority genetic factor; you probably live in the uk seeing how you provided a source from the NHS, i have lived in Britain (Manchester) for around a year for a bit of work and education, and if I had to say one thing about the women there, its that they are so miserable and unhealthy (I blame the weather and other stuff); and I believe this has resulted in women not wanting to have children because they are in such an unnatural environment. If you have high libido you would naturally want to cum inside a girl or vice versa for women who naturally want have children. >Oh and as for the number, idk what percentage or smokers develop lung cancer but even if it was 5%, that would be enough to warrant the unavoidable warnings they come with.yea fair pointI just think your justification is coming under a false impression of the female nature and ignores any instinctual desire to have kids
>>18479511>wypipo should stop having choldren>but not bipocs because that be'z razizthanks dr. Kirshenbaum, you are our greatest ally
>>18480066Who are you quoting?
>>18480066>white people do x>brown people do y>GUYS GUYS WE SHOULD DO Y LIKE THE BROWNS GUYS GUYS WE SHOULD BE MORE LIKE THE BROWNS
>>18480049>>If there is some pleasure hormone associated with delivery I don't know, >101% noi wouldnt be so sure, there's pleasure for shitting
>>18479511>the upside of pregnancy is deliveryFucking lmao
