Did Hideyoshi and the Tokugawa shoguns have legitimate reasons for persecuting Christians? The Jesuits were involved in the slave trade, and Christians later revolted against the shogunate with Portuguese backing. The Japanese recognized Christianity for what it truly was: a weapon used to destabilize the country and pave the way for colonization. What the Japanese did was brutal and criminal, but it spared Japan from becoming a colonized nation like the Philippines.
>>18482327>Did Hideyoshi and the Tokugawa shoguns have legitimate reasons for persecuting Christians?Yes, because by the time the "christian" missionaries got there they no longer understood how to correctly explained why the eastern pillar of heaven should join its might to the western pillar of heaven so that all the light that are of God can have their eternal life secure with dominion over all of creation forever.
>>18482327>Did Hideyoshi and the Tokugawa shoguns have legitimate reasons for persecuting Christians?Missionaries were a tool that was part of the overall toolbox of imperial expansion. Overall don't trust them in the long run.
>>18482331>>18482328>>18482327This is bullshit lying done by the Japanesr against the Jesuits.If the Jesuits was so Anti-Indigenous rights, why were they so hated by other Catholic Orders for siding with Chinese in the Chinese-Rites Controversy that were accomodating of Pagan Chinese rituals in their syncretistic approach to evangelization? Also if the Jesuits were so pro-slavery why did they defend and arm the Native Americans in the Jesuit Reductions of Paraguay in wars against the Portuguese and Spanish Empires, their own Royal Patrons in Europe?Far from it, Christianity edified and sanctified Paraguay and China.And the main reason why the Philippines is poor now is not rather Christianization but rather the thieving lying Japanese themselves who carted off the entire treasury of the Philippines during WW2 same with allegedly "Christian" USA who chose to side with Japan in rebuilding her rather than the Philippines. True to her Masonic origins.
>>18482327The Catholic Jesuits chose to die and be martyred for the nation of Paraguay and even died and fought for them when the Portuguese and Spanish Empire were enslaving them whereas Japanese people enslaved their own people then sold the slaves to the Jesuits and then lied that the Jesuits enslaved them, when the freaking Pope already banned slavery as early as the 1400s.Duplicitous lying Japanese.
People also forgot that the Nagasaki Shimabara Uprising was Christian uprising in favor of the poor in solidarity against slavery and oligarchy. But NNNAAAASUUURRR evil Jesuit do dis and dat! LOOOOL!
>>18482328Shaddup you liar the Jesuits already pleaded before the Pope to incorporate Chinese Pagan Rites into Catholic Liturgy in the Chinese-Rites Controversy as early as the 1500s. Way to go backstabbing your most ardent advocate.
>>18482327I know right! Those pesky Jesuit Priests and their vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience, are subversive demons compared to the Samurai and Daimyo who have the right behead peasants for the slightest minor mistake. Eeermeergaaard we are so civilized. UwU
>>18482494>>18482497>>18482515>Also if the Jesuits were so pro-slavery why did they defend and arm the Native Americans in the Jesuit Reductions of Paraguay in wars against the Portuguese and Spanish Empires, their own Royal Patrons in Europe?Jesuits owned enslaved people at several plantations, farms and schools in Maryland and Pennsylvania, including at Georgetown University. Turns out like every other imperial tool for expansion they will flip-flop at a moments notice and be co-opted by the state.
>>18482521Oh there was that time they tried to subvert Ethiopia by trying to Catholicize it and making it heed Portugal and the Pope's direction. Lots of instability during that time but thet kicked the convert emperor from power so there's that. Then there's the Kongo kindgom where the presence of the Jesuits who were tied to the empire (Padroado system) became a strong foothold into the Kongo and led to it's destabilization and collapse.
>>18482521Owned slaves? You mean bought slaves that Africans themselves enslaved of their fellow Africans, of which the Jesuits later set free anyway? Like the Jesuit founder of Maryland of indicated in his will that upon his death all his slaves be set free? OK, since we are talking about the alleged slavery in Maryland and Pennsylvania, what about we talk about the American and French Freemasons who are hypocrites and proclaim Liberté, Egalité, et Fraternité, in the American and French Revolutions, but when it came to the Philippine Revolution, the Americans and French betrayed their own Masonic and Revolutionary ideals in the Philippine-American War and 1898 Treaty of Paris?
>>18482526The Kingdom of Ethiopia participated in the First Three Catholic Ecunemical Councils. Before, when Christianity was still undivided. Returning to the status quo ante bellum is a bad thing?
>>18482494>Philippines is poor now is not rather Christianization but rather the thieving lying Japanese themselves who carted off the entire treasury of the Philippines during WW2It was already poor at that time.
>>18482327>but it spared Japan from becoming a colonized nation likeThey became in the end, muttoid, what you think the American occupation was ? lol
>>18482521They owned serfs*, and they lived better than the average japanese monkey peasant
>>18482515The Jesuits are know subverts, altrough their IQ, knowledge and cultural bagage was years ahead the rest of the world, with exceptions... people think they are just priests and kind forgot that they are scientists and researchers too
>>18482331They did helped China in transfering western knowledge, and the Chinese didn't persecuted them, but the primary reason is that China imperial system was immune to subversion and conquest lol they are much more developed, advanced and rich than Japan btw so no comparison
>>18482494The Jesuits were hated by other Catholic orders for the same reason conflict happens in any large organisation with competitive interest groups. In the Jesuit case they just overplayed their hand and suffered the inevitable consequences, as would have happened to the Dominicans or Franciscans or any other order in their position.
>An example of this is the story of the second son of the Bungo daimyo Ōtomo Yoshishige, also known as Sōrin. Destined for a religious career as a bonze, the young scion from an early age showed dissatisfaction with this fate. Instead, he approached the missionaries, and eventually his father accepted his conversion to the Christian faith with the name of Sebastiano>Out of convenience or out of conviction, many other nobles followed Sebastiano on the road to Christianity, espousing violent attitudes toward Buddhist places of worship, as recounted in great detail and not without a certain satisfaction by a Jesuit missionary in a letter from September 9, 1576:>And on the same day of Christmas, having called all those Christian knights to him, he ordered them to put rosaries around their necks, as he did, and with this noble squad he went on foot through the main streets of the city, and finding some pagodas he had them razed to the ground. And when I asked him why he was doing this, that it would be the cause of some tumult, and that perhaps the king would not hold him dear, he replied that he did it on purpose, so that everyone would know that he was a Christian, and that even the next day he wanted to go by other roads and do the same. I now leave it up to your paternity to judge the jubilation of all Funai’s Christianity, seeing the son of the Christian king with so many other respectable people, since up to that time the Christians had been so abject and so vile that they did not dare appear, partly for being few compared to so many Gentiles, partly because the said Christianity began in the hospital, where we cared for people who were lowly and sick with contagious disease
>Moreover, the story of samurai who, as soon as they abandoned their idolatrous faith, give concrete proof of their spiritual breakthrough with the destruction of once-revered religious symbols reappears almost obsessively in missionary letters, to the point of constituting a sort of cliché. This must lead us to reflect on the fact that the lack of recourse to sacred violence on the part of the missionaries was a necessity in the first decades of their presence in the Far East rather than a real and proper choice. But once they achieved a certain ability to influence the political scenario in specific areas of the archipelago, the fathers did not hesitate to re-propose models of evangelization based on coercion and the destruction of Buddhist temples.>The model of exporting the faith among the unbelievers remained the one inherited from the crusader culture of Spain’s Reconquista against the Moors, and then relaunched by the Church of the Counter-Reformation from an anti-Protestant perspective. Clear evidence of this is the establishment of Crusader samurai armies, the attempts of the Jesuits to favor a union of the various Christian princes of Kyushu, but also more concretely the foundation of a real Christian fortress city, Nagasaki, which in a few years went from a small fishing village to a city of 50,000 inhabitants and the capital of trade between the archipelago and the Asian continent through the mediation of Portuguese merchants. But Nagasaki also became the capital of Japanese Christianity and the seat of the first diocese. The very management of the city, on the basis of generous concessions from the local lord, was entrusted to the direct government of the Society of Jesus, so that “no idolater was tolerated there, except for a short passage."tl;dr the Jesuits were acting like kikes and the only thing stopping them from pulling an anti-government power play was the mere fact they hadn't accumulated sufficient military power to do so (yet).
>>18482777>>18482786Sounds based. I kinda understand why missionaries enjoyed their work so much. Must have been gratifying to see your religion spread and influence grow so fast. Definitely would have worked its way up Japan if the government hadn't taken action. Whether you think that's good or bad is a matter of personal interpretation.
>>18482631>You mean bought slaves that Africans themselves enslaved of their fellow Africans, of which the Jesuits later set free anyway?Still made use of the slaves and they weren't freed lol. >OK, since we are talking about the alleged slavery in Maryland and PennsylvaniaProven
>>18482805>Must have been gratifying to see your religion spread and influence grow so fast.Because many made money off it and influence too.
>>18482327Why did you ask a question and then immediately answer it?
>>18482328>Yes, because by the time the "christian" missionaries got there they no longer understood how to correctly explainedESL Shitskin
>>18482664>2nd richest Asian country after Japan>Poor? Lol!
>>18482821Hurrduurr what is a Jesuit vow of poverty? Did you know that tuition was free among Jesuit schools until the 1800s?Oh geeze what profiteering can Jesuita possibly do when they have a freaking vow of poverty and with no private property whatsover with the entire society living like one giant monastic commune...
>>18482327The Spanish took over the Philippines before sending missionaries, not the reverse.
>>18482494>And the main reason why the Philippines is poor now is not rather Christianization but rather the thieving lying Japanese themselves who carted off the entire treasury of the Philippines during WW2 same with allegedly "Christian" USA who chose to side with Japan in rebuilding her rather than the Philippines. True to her Masonic origins.Hi, Luna. Sorry for thy foreskin.
>>18482818Nigga you are deliberately denying facts.1500s Papal Bull "Sublimis Deus" utterly banned slavery in the Americas under pain of excommunication.Also the first Bishop of the USA (Also a Jesuit) adovated for the gradual emamcipation of all slaves...>Slavery>In 2018, investigations by Georgetown University and John Carroll University revealed that Carroll enslaved two men while he was bishop and archbishop: Charles and Alexis.[37][38][39] Carroll sold Alexis in 1806 to a Baltimore man named Mr. Stenson, but Carroll kept Charles.[37] In his will, Carroll bequeathed ownership of Charles to his nephew, the diplomat Daniel Brent, on the condition that Brent free Charles within a year of Carroll's death. Carroll also provided Charles with a small inheritance.[40][38]>Carroll advocated for the humane treatment and religious education of enslaved people by their owners. However, in his early years, he never called for the abolition of slavery in the United States.[41] In later years, he promoted a policy of voluntary gradual emancipation by slave owners. Carroll believed that this policy would prevent the breakup of families of enslaved people and allow for the care of their elderly.[15] :
>>18482912We were already Christian before the Spanish came you nimcumpoop. Filipino people from Luzon island were known as Luçoes, when the Portuguese people arrived at the Sultanate of Malacca years before the Spanish and when they found Filipino Luçoes, some Muslim, some Hindu, they found us as useful allies against the Sultanate of Malacca which they would invade.
>>18482914You are an idiot you keep blaming our circumcized dicks on Christianity when that was Muslim practice imposed by the aristocracy of the Sultanate of Brunei on their Manila colony who were ALLIED TO JAPAN, as per conspiracy of the Maharlikas.Stupid idiot blaming a Muslim practice on the Spanish who wanted to stamp it out and of which Hindu Filipinos actively refused circumcision.You are ramblint bunch of liars with zero historical literacy, doing stupid things like laying the blame of an Islamic practice (circumcision) on the very people (Christians) who want to stamp it out.
>>18482757Jesuit formation is very rigorous. Even then before you study to become Jesuit Priest you are expected to have a degree in other arts or sciences before you enter the Jesuit Novitiate. That is why the Jesuit Pope Francis had a degree in Chemistry before he entered the Jesuit Order.Argentina's War of Independence BTW was deeply affected by the Jesuits since Jose de San Martin, the leader of the Argentine War of Independence was born in the Jesuit Reductions of Paraguay training the Indigenous Guarani to resist Portuguese enslavers called Bandereitas the Temporary Universal Supression and Martyrdom of Jesuits was partly due to their support of Native American Guaranis and Native Chinese Rites against the established colonial powers. Since their Jesuit protectors were martyred by the crown the Latin Americam Revolutions arose.
>>18482327Christianity is a slave religion/philosophy. It glorifies weakness. The very gesture of hands clasped in prayer, is how Roman slaves presented their hands to be bound.Christians deserve to be persecuted. They're a blight wherever they go. The Japanese were correct for their persecution. This mind virus only contaminates and weakens cultures. Their native Shinto, while still certainly glorifying conformity and loyalty, also fundamentally glorifies *strength*, and values Japanese cultural supremacy. Accepting the foreign gods, was accepting Euro rulership and priming the people to this end. Japan I'm sure was very attuned to the fact that Euros tending to spread their religion, as a means to prime potential colonies for servitude.
>>18482929I will beat your Japanese ass up. If I ever see you, and you can only run away since justice is in my side.Far from it you slivering lying thief of an evil race who got rich off lying and thieving from the rest of Asia.South Korea is now majority Christian and is now richer than your thief Japanese ass.While Taiwan. Even after the whole damn world has abandoned them only the most Religiously Christian nations of the Vatican in Europe and Paraguay in Latin America stays loyal and true to Taiwan.You materialistic bunch of mamon worshipping power seekinh demon cocksuckers CANNOT replicate this level faithfulness and loyalty in your world bound by Machiavelian Power. Enjoy your hell on earth Mr. debt thats 250% of GDP.
>>18482908Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, China, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia are all richer than the Philippines.
>>18482920>You are an idiot you keep blaming our circumcized dicks on Christianity when that was Muslim practice imposed by the aristocracy of the Sultanate of Brunei on their Manila colony who were ALLIED TO JAPAN, as per conspiracy of the Maharlikas.>Stupid idiot blaming a Muslim practice on the Spanish who wanted to stamp it out and of which Hindu Filipinos actively refused circumcision.>You are ramblint bunch of liars with zero historical literacy, doing stupid things like laying the blame of an Islamic practice (circumcision) on the very people (Christians) who want to stamp it out.Konnichiwa, dude. Noice strawman&pillpul.
>>18482954Such and such nations were free of US interference. They didnt have US dictator. Marcos, who pillaged all their wealth and parked it US banks especially in investments in New York.
Also it is interesting to note that Pro US dicatator Ferdinand Marcos' Father Mariano Marcos, was executed by Resistance Fighters during World War 2 for being a known Japanese Collaborator during the Japanese Invasion of the Philippines.
>>18483272>Such and such nations were free of US interference>Indonesia and VietnamLMAO
>>18483293Vietnam and Indonesia also had several times less the number of natural disasters the Philippines has which is simultaneously in the Pacific Ring of Fire, the Supertyphoon belt, and several more disastera galore.
>>18482933>justice is in my sidehow does that look like? a dagger in your kidney?
>>18483602That Flip Nigga doesnt even need to kill of Japanese people, they are doing that to themselves by not breeding and having a shrinking population.
>>18482504>>18482494>whyBecause by the time missionaries tried in the east they'd forgotten from whence the Spirit came and why those of God are that, in other words they no longer chose to see God.
>>18482933>You materialistic bunch of mamon worshipping power seekinh demon cocksuckersThe only people here who worship money are Christians, just look at the current state of American Protestantism. Also the accusation of pagans beings demons is nothing more than mere projection since you worship Yahweh-Typhon.>South Korea is now majority Christian and is now richer than your thief Japanese ass.Only less than 28% to 31% of South Korea is Christian and only due to American influence.
>>18482327>legitimate reasonsYes, they are annoying, and the idea that your country won't be successful unless you worship the Jewish god is easily proven false
>>18482526>oh there was that time they tried to subvert Ethiopia by trying to Catholicize it and making it heed Portugal and the Pope's direction.was that ficticous event before or after the portuguese sent guns, advisors and troops to help the ethiopians against the muslim invaders?
>>18482327Christianity both denied the Emperor's divinity and thus concept of right to rule in Japan and was also incredibly controversial for directly contradicting Shinto ancestor worship by stating that their pagan ancestors and family were all burning in hell or languishing in purgatory at best and there's nothing they could do to fix it
>>18482909I'd take the power and influence of a Jesuit leader in that time period over a comparable noble or merchant any day.
>>18482327>The Jesuits were involved in the slave trade, and Christians later revolted against the shogunate with Portuguese backingThere's really no proof of either of these allegations. The Japanese people transported out of Japan were not slaves, nor were they treated as such, nor were they auctioned off as slaves, nor were they put to work like slaves. The Jesuits ran a war refugee program in Japan during the Sengoku bringing Japanese people who had lost their villages during the wars to safety in Portuguese port towns.The Japanese Christians who revolted against the shogunate were the descendants of a generation of Japanese Christians that was given military training and arms by the Portuguese during the Sengoku before the battle of Sekigahara in 1600 AD. The Shimabara Rebellion occurred in 1638 AD. There is no available evidence that they were assisted at any time by the Portuguese traders in Nagasaki. There are no records of arms transfers, ammunition sold, or military training during the rebellion. There is no record of any Portuguese in the rebel camp at any point during the rebellion.
>>18482327What if Hideyoshi spare them in 1596 and used Iberian sailors for his shipyards on the Korean campaign?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoinrFMgQ0
>>18483687Strong words from Protestants who actively sabotaged Christian attempts to convert Japan while the British and Dutch themselves did jack shit in converting Indonesia or Malaysia to Christianity which to this day remains majority Muslim unlike with the Portuguese in East Timor and Spanish in the Philippines who converted the indigenous Hindu and Muslim Kingdoms to Christianity.
>>18484783300 or so years and the spanish still couldn't eradicate islam from a chain of islands that was ~90% pagan (and later catholic).
>>18482515Ours is noble, theirs is savage, for this we grant ourselves the right to subjugate.
Japan has a Catholic princess: Princess Nobuko of Mikasa, a notable figure within the Imperial House. Born into a Catholic family and baptized as a child, she brought this heritage into the bosom of the Japanese monarchy upon marrying, in 1980, Prince Tomohito of Mikasa, with whom she had two daughters.
>>18484804>two daughters.so irrelevant
