Did the Romans regard the Greeks as fellow Europeans or as Orientals just as strange as the Egyptians?
>>18486915>Did the Romans regard the Greeks as fellow Europeans or as Orientals [...]ACTUALLY CONSERVATIVE ROMANS, IN THEIR GROYPER MIGHT, REGARDED PROGRESSIVE GREEKS AS WOKE SOCIALISTS, WHICH IS WHY THEY DECIDED TO INVADE AND CONQUER THEM, TO MAKE EUROPA GREAT AGAIN.
>>18486915Early Romans did not know what "Europe" was and did not care about such a thing, and Greek culture was foreign and seen as degenerate and subversive by conservatives. It was probably not felt to be quite as foreign as Egypt though.
>>18486915they weren't brothers, ultimately the romans conquered them
>>18486926what the fuck is this
I feel like I'm south of the equator in this thread. I smell santeria and victimhood, anyone else?? To your misfortune and unhappiness, Europe as a distinct bio-geographic region dates back thousands of years and appears to have been conceived in the Greco-Roman world.Hecataeus and Anaximander established the boundary of the continent as the Caucasus mountains, very similar to our modern borders. Herodotus, the great, stated that the world was divided into three parts, Europe, Asia, and Libya (Africa). He revised the eastern boundary between Europe and Asia to be the River Don and was followed by later Roman geographers.>Come, tell me why it is that the Celts and the Germans are fierce, while the Hellenes and Romans are, generally speaking, inclined to political life and humane, though at the same time unyielding and warlike? Why the Egyptians are more intelligent and more given to crafts, and the Syrians unwarlike and effeminate, but at the same time intelligent, hot-tempered, vain and quick to learn? […] As for men’s laws, it is evident that men have established them to correspond with their own natural dispositions; that is to say, constitutional and humane laws were established by those in whom a humane disposition had been fostered above all else, savage and inhuman laws by those in whom there lurked and was inherent the contrary disposition.”—Against The Galileans,Julian (361 to 363 AD)This kills the provocateur.. >saar u r telling me that romanz wazant muh brotherz againtz the yroopeanz saar? What about our Mediterranean brotherhooood saar?
>>18486972>Hecataeus and AnaximanderWhich are not Romans.Are you failing to distinguish between these two civilisations at this point in history?
>>18486915Romans didn't consider themselves ''European'' so your thread premise is already silly
>>18486926lmao
>>18486915Romans didn't have a meaningful concept of Europe, and they considered greeks to be the eastern equivalent of gauls, that is to say a group relatively closely related but still foreign and degenerate (by virtue of being orientals as opposed to barbaric by virtue of being ultralpine). This juxtaposed to proper eastern degenerates like syrians and persian or proper barbarians like germanics and britons.As with most cultures it conquered, over time Rome ate up a lot of greek culture so attitudes towards the content became much more positive, but the attitude towards greeks themselves didn't really change at any point.
>>18486915They were close neighbors of Magna Graecia and influenced by their culture early on.
>>18486972And still on the subject of our beloved Europe, envied and hated by many even though she is the quintessential queen of the world, there is something very interesting that might make us think that "Europe" as a concept may be even older.Those who are starving will simply bark that Europe is a Phoenician name and therefore foreign, but According to M.L. West; West, Morris, the name could derive from the Greek elements εὐρύς (eurús) 'broad, wide', and ὤψ (ōps, gen. ὠπός, ōpós) 'eye, face, countenance', so the compound Eurṓpē would mean 'broad-looking' or 'broad-aspect'. And here's where things get even cooler, this could have been an epithet of the Earth itself in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion and poetry dedicated to her, the queen of the world :)
>>18486915They had a weird relationship to the Greeks Helenism meant that true culture was and always would be Greek, and they felt inadequate at the fact that they didn't have the same kind of cultural heritage that the Greeks didAfter they developed their own literary canon they felt like they could assert Latinity as superior or at least equal to the Greeks. But some would continue to be philohelenes, for instance, Marcus Aurelius.But they would continue to regard Greek culture as important and Greek intelectuals would continue to have high ranking careers in the empire. See, for instance, Philostratus of Athens and his relationship with the severan dynasty.They didn't really see themselves as european. The world was divided between barbarians and greeks, with romans existing somewhere in betweenThe Greeks shape bronze statues so real they seem to breathe,And carve cold marble until it almost comes to life.The Greeks compose great orations, and measureThe heavens so well they can predict the rising of the stars.But you, Romans, remember your great arts;To govern the peoples with authority,To establish peace under the rule of law,To conquer the mighty, and show them mercy once they are conquered.-Virgil, Aeneid VI, 847-853
>>18486975Hey illiterate, didn't you read that this concept was transmitted to the Romans? An isolationist view of the Romans exists only in your ritualistic backward. the concept, if not older than the ancient world, was transmitted to the Romans, and continued to be used in medieval Europe.
>>18486992>>18486972I emphasize
>>18486999The Romans existed for centuries before they were Hellenised, and that is what the thread is about.
>>18486915What kind of retarded question is that? The Romans literally believed that their ancestors came from Troy, on the west coast of Anatolia, which was part of Ancient Greece. All their historical resentment against them stemmed from their defeat in the Trojan War.>>18486972>>18486992>>18487001Obsessed.In ancient Greece, the term Eurṓpē (Εὐρϱώπην) initially did not refer to the vast continent we know today, but to mainland Greece. Its earliest recorded geographic use is indeed in the Homeric Hymn to Delian Apollo (dating to the 7th or 6th century BC), where it exclusively described mainland Greece and the western shores of the Aegean Sea.>The poet of the Homeric Hymn to Apollo provides a variant of the foundation myth of Delphi, in which mortals play a sig- nificant role and define their relationship with the divine. Thus, before Apollo builds his temple and oracle, he addresses humans and describes the reciprocal relationships he will establish with them, which entail the exchange of prophecies for sacrifices (287–293):>ἐνθάδε δὴ φρϱονέω τεῦξαι περϱικϰαλλέα νηὸν>ἔµµεναι ἀνθρϱώποις χρϱηστήρϱιον, οἵτε µοι αἰεὶ>ἐνθάδ’ ἀγινήσουσι τεληέσσας ἑκϰατόµβας,>ἠµὲν ὅσοι Πελοπόννησον πίειρϱαν ἔχουσιν,>ἠδ’ ὅσοι Εὐρϱώπην τε κϰαὶ ἀµφιρϱύτας κϰατὰ νήσους,>χρϱησόµενοι: τοῖσιν δ’ ἄρϱ’ ἐγὼ νηµερϱτέα βουλὴν>πᾶσι θεµιστεύοιµι χρϱέων ἐνὶ πίονι νηῷ.
>>18487086https://x.com/Abenis_my_sidesstop spamming
>>18487086>"Here I intend to build a beautiful temple to be an oracle for humans, who will always bring perfect hecatombs here to me, both those who inhabit fertile Peloponnese and those who inhabit Europe and seagirt islands, in order to request oracles: to all of them therefore I would deliver infallible counsel proph- esying in a rich temple."In the hymn, the narrator contrasts the people living in the Peloponnese with those living in Eurṓpē (mainland Greece) and the surrounding islands.>ἠµὲν ὅσοι Πελοπόννησον πίειρϱαν ἔχουσιν,>ἠδ’ ὅσοι Εὐρϱώπην τε κϰαὶ ἀµφιρϱύτας κϰατὰ νήσους,>both those who inhabit fertile Peloponnese and those who inhabit Europe and seagirt islandsDo you know the irony? For later Greek geographers, Europe was the western side of the Bosphorus, Asia was the eastern side, Africa was the western side of the Red Sea. This is why Anatolia AKA ASIA MINOR is not a part of Europe despite Troy, Homer, Apollo and most of the great Greek thinkers being from there.>Troy (Greek: Τροία, romanised: Troíā; Hittite: 𒆳𒌷𒋫𒊒𒄿𒊭, romanised: Truwiša/Taruiša; Latin: Troia) or Ilion (Greek: Ἴλιον, romanised: Ī́lion; Hittite: 𒌷𒃾𒇻𒊭, romanised: Wiluša) was an ancient city located in present-day Çanakkale, Turkey>The Greeks and Romans took for a fact the historicity of the Trojan War and the identity of Homeric Troy with a site in Anatolia on a peninsula called the Troad (modern-day Tevfikiye, Çanakkale Province, Turkey). Alexander the Great, for example, visited the site in 334 BC and there made sacrifices at tombs associated with the Homeric heroes Achilles and Patroclus
>>18487092>In 48 BC, Gaius Julius Caesar likewise bestowed benefactions on the city, recalling the city's loyalty during the Mithridatic Wars, the city's connection with his cousin Lucius, and the family's claim that they were ultimately descended from Venus through the Trojan prince Aeneas and therefore shared kinship with the Ilians. In 20 BC, the emperor Augustus (Gaius Octavian Julius Caesar Augustus) visited Ilion and stayed in the house of a leading citizen, Melanippides son of Euthydikos>Many accounts of Homer's life circulated in classical antiquity, the most widespread that he was a blind bard from Ionia, a region including the central part of the western coast of Anatolia in present-day Turkey>The Hittite form Apaliunas (dx-ap-pa-li-u-na-aš) is attested in the Manapa-Tarhunta letter. The Hittite testimony reflects an early form *Apeljōn, which may also be surmised from the comparison of Cypriot Ἀπείλων with Doric Ἀπέλλων. The name of the Lydian god Qλdãns /kʷʎðãns/ may reflect an earlier /kʷalyán-/ before palatalization, syncope, and the pre-Lydian sound change *y > d>Apaliunas (Hittite: 𒀀𒀊𒉺𒇷𒌋𒈾𒀸 Āppaliunāš) is the name of a god, attested in a Hittite language treaty as a protective deity of Wilusa (Troy)
>>18486915Albanians were the real ancient Greeks.
>>18487105Wrong. Bulgarians are the real Greeks.
>>18487086>>18487092>>18487101The most curious thing about this is that the Hittites were the Indo-Europeanized successors of the Hurrians, so many of their gods were Indo-Europeanized versions of Hurrian gods, which themselves had many Mesopotamian borrowings. In this case, Apaliunas would have come from or been influenced by the Hurrian Aplu, would have come from or been influenced by Mesopotamian Aplu Enlil/Nergal.>The Hurrian pantheon consisted of gods of varied backgrounds, some of them natively Hurrian, while others adopted from other pantheons, for example Eblaite and Mesopotamian. Like the other inhabitants of the Ancient Near East, Hurrians regarded their gods as anthropomorphic. They were usually represented in the form of statues holding the symbols associated with a specific deity. The Yazılıkaya sanctuary, which was Hittite in origin but served as a center of the practice of Hurrian religion, is considered a valuable source of information about their iconography>Hurrians organized their gods into lists known as kaluti or into similar lexical lists as the Mesopotamians. The formal structure of the pantheon was most likely based on either Mesopotamian or Syrian theology. The status of individual deities and composition of the pantheon could vary between individual locations, but some can nonetheless be identified as "pan-Hurrian>Further east of the Luwian language area, a Hurrian god Aplu was a deity of the plague—bringing it, or, if propitiated, protecting from it — and resembles Apollo Sminthos, "mouse-Apollo" [σμίνθος, "mouse".] worshiped at Troy and Tenedos, who brought plague upon the Achaeans in answer to a Trojan prayer at the opening of "Iliad". ["Iliad" i. 37-39.] . The Hurrian "Aplu" itself seems derived from Babylonian "aplu" meaning "son of", a title that was given to the Babylonian plague god, Nergal as son of Enlil. In Greek mythology, Apollo remained the son of the chief god, Zeus
>>18487105>>18487109According to Italian researcher Felice Vinci, you are not even close to the truth...
>>18487146Why in the world would it be a greek story if this were the case? Like, sure this is possible by itself but when you consider the story itself isn't being told there but in greece?
>>18487018Hercules was adopted by Romans in the 500's BC.
>>18487198That retard wrote an entire book about his schizo theory without taking 30 seconds to check out the flora and fauna described in the Odissey that is only found in the Mediterranean, the most glaring example is olive trees which are described several times in it, but there are several other types of trees and animals that are only found in the Mediterranean
>>18487264What Homer meant by olive tree was a tree only found in the Baltics THOUGH
