Hisashi Eguchi (mangaka of Stop!! Hibari-kun!, character designer of Roujin Z, Perfect Blue, Sonny Boy anime) was caught tracing a fashion magazine for his Denny's commercial art. Denny's Japan has issued a statement that they're investigating the matter: https://dennys.jp/pdf/251004.pdfThis is a huge scandal, especially from an iconic illustrator/mangaka like Eguchi. Stop!! Hibari-kun! was so big in 80s that Akira Toriyama decided to end Dr Slump early (and he came back with Dragon Ball). It's also kinda ironic because so many people try to imitate his arts and sell fake Eguchi illustrations and merchandises. Original accusation:https://x.com/milksalz/status/1974350658951393488
>>7747461I don't get it. Don't all mangakas do this? Jojo is the most obvious example.
That pose is patented. You cannot use it!
>>7747469Araki and Togashi, yeah. Although in this case Denny's must've paid a ton of money for this commercial art just to end up with a traced art of one of the most popular actresses in Japan, which he copied from the best selling fashion magazine in Japan too. It's kinda bizarre that he's brave enough to pull this off.
>>7747474Have you take a look at the clothes and handbag? The magazine's paid professional fashion coordinator, make up designers, cameraman to make that shot (not to mention they must've paid the actress a lot of money for modelling for them). If that's for your own study, go ahead. But he copied everything except the hairstyle for a Denny's commercial art.
>>7747461>Denny's>japanthe japs still infatuated with american redneck culture, making it stylish again
>>7747461If he can trace I can trace you smell me?
>>7747469See the clothes and handbag. Copying pose is 1 thing, but copying the whole look?I wonder if he outsourced the work to some freelancers/friends/gaijins who didn’t know any better.
>>7747469There's a difference between referencing and tracing
>Not even pros can drawNone of us are GMI
>>7747481And? Maybe the clothes are Denny's' designs.
>>7747461It’s too close. Could it be AI conversion? Touched up afterwards.
>>7747461It shouldn't matter
>>7747461no one cares dude
>>7747461I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but he could have at least changed up the clothes, it's just too on the nose from his reference material.The result is good, but the legality of it is dubious, which is likely worse than if he just handed them a bad drawing.I believe the guy is well known for his fashion drawings too, so I don't know why he needed to copy the model 1:1, or has he always done this, and just never been caught?Perhaps this was a rush job, for some reason, and this was how he met the deadline?
>>7747469Yeah, and getting caught can end a series. I don't know why Eguchi did, the dude doesn't do weekly chapters or anything.
>>7747469at least jojo is clearly referencing and changing details, this is a 1:1 including whatever that is inside the handbag.
>>7747461who cares anyway? 4cucks? twittadeds?
>>7747461>copying a pose is tracing!
>>7747469>>7747586are you blind? its clearly not one to one
>>7747469jojo isn't 1:1, always have different clothes, wrinkles, proportions, designs, faces, and majority are just referencedop pic is pretty much 1:1
>>7747600>different face and hair>simplified clothing>arm is differenti bet once you accept that its not a tracing you'll bitch that its a bad tracing
>>7747602>you'll bitch that its a bad tracingare you projecting? op pic is good tracing because they can draw. it's tracing though
>>7747600go to your /beg/ thread newfag
>>7747604what we gonna do with this information anon?
>>7747608>>7747606nothing, but i'm glad you accepted that it's tracing. make sure you do your homework before monday :)
>>7747474it's not about the pose, you dumb nigger
>>7747604i'm saying the people bitching about this are nitpicking
>>7747615This magazine from 20 years ago used this pose wearing these clothes! You can't use it for all of human history, okay??
>>7747615>artists aren't allowed to use reference!>any reference is actually tracing!
>>7747620You're too dumb to understand the difference between referencing and tracing, got it.
>>7747622pyw
>>7747624You first.
>>7747461This seems like such an avoidable issue, but I wouldn't know because I'm not a PROFESSIONAL
>>7747469Artists are only allowed to create purely from their imagination after grinding boxes for ten thousand hours, you also can't make money from it and must always give away as much as you can for free to your fans. Anyone caught breaking these arbitrary rules needs to die.
>>7747469Mitch Gerads in the US comic industry does this blatantly and they give him Eisner awards for it
>>7747461
>>7747650Araki literally made his entire career on doing this what's the big deal
>>7747635pussy.
>>7747461The Japanese always do tracing, they don't know how to draw.
>>7747648Greg Land and his Iron Man Heart Attack victim
>>7747622tracing is when you draw over your referenceusing reference is when you look at a reference is use what you want from itif they were tracing the shape of the pants, arms, body, and face would match 1:1 which it doesn't
why do ateliers spend so much time tracing?
gotta love all the drawlets seething every time some nigger gets punished for tracing lmao
>>7747661bro the anatomy in slam dunk is so bad theres no way they traced
>>7747678Are you blind or idiot? Can't you see the image? It's tracing.
>>7747661The top mangaka tell aspiring mangaka to steal and trace poses and page layouts.
>>7747622its not tracing if he doesnt lay a paper over the reference and literally trace it. learn fucking english you dumb thirdie, its literally in the fucking word jesus lord almighty. yeah its heavily referenced, but its not a tracing
>>7747461>>7747661Western comics are criticized for much less than this, while they inflate the Japanese short-dick mangakas, they are all nodraw otakus posing as cartoonists
>>7747461I will never understand tracing every single detail. Even the kind of shirt which has an odd cut was traced. Even the bang shes holding and how unique it is. He could have traced it in so many ways that would not be obvious, so this makes me think he did this on purpose so he wasn't trying to pull a fast one.
>>7747683its not traced
>>7747661Funny thing, there was a female mangaka who got caught tracing from Slam Dunk and her manga was suspended for a year or something before being allowed to publish again.
>>7747708define tracing since your definition is different from everyone else's
>>7747461I don’t get it, this is obviously referencing and not tracing, why should I give a shit?
>>7747712How come Araki gets a free pass? Who decides the rules?
>>7747673there's a middle ground called copying but that doesn't apply here as it's definitely traced, they wouldn't bother 1:1 copying the proportions and angles slowly through observation when their aim is to do a fast job. it's traced with needed stylization added on, have you ever seen how artists trace 3d models, it's the same, except usually they stray more. here it's damn near 1:1, see >>7747650overall copying is bad because if you copy you are just stealing the work of the photographer. it's all the same fundies in play there too. composition, light etc
>>7747683this just tells me how good are at looking at images. its like a kids game for you, please find the 10 differences in each image, because i can assure you they are there
>>7747730People on this board are so bad at drawing observationally they automatically assume if a drawing is accurate to the reference even well they think it's ""tracing""
>>7747469I don't get it either.We live in such strange times. Who cares?I think I witnessed how such attitudes started in teh deviantart times. People signed even their lowliest trash and they cared a lot about the origin and from-scratch of everything, while the real artists were "stealing", using every tool and trick under the sun, and rotoscoping like mad.
>>7747739>an artist is capable of analyzing angles accurately! what a tracer!
>>7747718literally tracing over it. as in either a layer in your doodling program or a light table and literally tracing the lines over it. anything else isnt tracing, its copying or referencing
>its ok when humans do it There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex-
Isn't everyone forgetting that he also drew rest of the art piece? I don't get why this is a big deal. Because everyone copies, everyone traces, everyone traces, now we have AI.
>>7747675Do atelier students sell their studies? Didn't think so!
>>7747841he probably took a picture of a denys store and traced it too
>>7747617They are not. If you are not willing to draw then let someone younger do the work then. Fuck off from the industry, die.
>>7747846Rembrandt, Raphael, Titian- all of the old masters copied poses and often entire compositions from other artists
>>7747739Majority of mangaka including all your favorites trace 3D models.
Lmao this example. He literally improved her.
>>7747858Only the new ones, they also look like dogshit, cancerzoomerslop.
Rip if he gets copyright raped for this one
USE THIS AND START TRACING
>7747879nigger
>>7747661I think the main problem is that people adored Hisashi Eguchi for coming up with those poses, and it turned out he didn’t, it gives a feeling of betrayal.Slam Dunk on the other hand is just panel recreations of irl scenes, when it got exposed as a 1:1 reference, people just "oh it’s just a photo reference" and moved on.I’m not saying who’s right or wrong, just saying that’s why the Hisashi Eguchi case caught heat but not the others.
>>7747879Is this ai
>>7747876Unironically why he shouldn't be assraped by companies? He should've let someone take the wheel a long time ago instead of holding on to a lie.
He should have traced AI. No one would have found the original.
o.O
>>7747612>make sure you do your homework before monday :)You are such a bitch boy.You were one back in school and now you are still a faggot.
>>7747886yes
>>7747739it's a completely different product.
>>7747876that's not how copyright works.Nothing will happen to him, there's no case at all.
>>7747651I'm making a goddamn fortune tracing AI poses. There is nothing wrong with tracing as long as you're discreet about it.
My goat Oda has never traced
>>7747920Yeah, I can, uh, I can tell.
>>7747915Japs are total jews with that shit so idk
>>7747892This is how references work. You don't copy the thing 1:1, you don't trace it, you "Feel the form" o algo Also josuke mogging the model in the hip contrapposto department lmao
>>7747916How much is the fortune? What's even the difference between discreetly tracing AI versus discreetly tracing 3D models and obscure albums of real people?
>>7747915You are wrong, Japanese copyright is one of the most aggressive that exists, it is worse than American copyright, Nintendo, Umamusumme are an example of this.
>>7747874he ruined her
>>7747910grim
>>7747876he will probably get fucked for using the logo if this isn't an official New Balance product but cases like what is regarded as fair use have happened before and the artist didn't get screwed over
I like to think all of us have been around the block a few times and are mature enough to disregard this thread's subject (please God I hope most of you are over 22). See picrel, and perhaps Higashiyama Show's controversy a few years back. There's a fine line between tracing and referencing bla bla bla. Seriously I hope this isn't new to any of you, this topic has been done to death.Can we use this thread to talk about Hisashi Eguchi's artwork instead?What did you guys think of his recent work for Sonny Boy?
>>7747461His mistake wasn't tracing, but tracing a magazine, for a commercial work. Jej
>>7747973why are we only limiting this to mangaka? all illustrators, designers, pretty much anyone professional uses reference
>>7748003What do you think of Eguchi's latest character design work?
>>7747892He's tracing then resigning the traces. Is this allowed?
>>7748032>resigningReskinning
>>7747973Never quite got the drama about Show. The way he does lips and clear lines it's always been obvious to me it's redrawn from models.
>>7748003I want Everyone to stop reading Japanese comic bullshit.
>>7747884Oh come on. Jojo ripped off the poses, and people still like it.
>>7747973Well, that’s disappointing. I thought Togashi is better than this.
>>7747712The Chihayafuru author, right?
>>7747712>>7748077Holy shit, it’s very difficult to find info about this.Fuck Inoue, such a garbage person. https://en.namu.wiki/w/슬램덩크/논란#s-1.1.1 Namu wiki MTL about what happened.
>>7747884no, the problem is you got self-important permabegs who think they are the authority of art
>>7747884Mangas are for kids. Advertisement is serious business. Not joking.
>>7748142I mean you can always lie to yourself and go down the tobby fox route, Stealing is ok as long as you don't get sued. Kinda shitty because for most of us art is a hobby instead of tranny delusions
>>7747892ok, now do like >>7747650 did, see if they are this identical, faggot.
>>7748146what are you even talking about
>>7747650ARAGH THIS IS TO FUCKING HARD
>>7748153tracing references is lying to yourself
>>7747973>What did you guys think of his recent work for Sonny Boy?he's a fraud
>>7748253How?
>>7747461So?
I'm denouncing tracing not for moral reasons but because I like drawing from imagination and this way I'm fighting the competition
>>7748254BECAUSE HE GOT CAUGHT TRACING, AND YOU'RE LETTING HIM GET A PASS!!!!!WHY IS IT WHEN WE DO TRACING OURSELVES, ITS BAD AND WE SHOULD FEEL BAD!?HOW COME ITS OK WHEN THEY DO AND GET AWAY WITH IT AND WE'RE CALLED BEGGER WHEN WE ATTEMPT TO DO IT!?WE'RE TIRED OF USELESS FUNDIES AND BULLSHIT LOOMINS JUST TO KEEP US DOWN AND NEVER MAKE IT!!!WE'RE DONE WITH THE BS HERE AND WE'LL TRACE ANY PICS OR A.I. ART AND YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!WE WILL MAKE IT AND BECOME A PRO MANGAKA
>>7748286I like to think that the only reason why the people that want AI are Indians SEA and Middle easterners is because they can't tell the difference. They are malnourished on top of being dumb and brainwashed by fake religions and fake gods that they unironically can't tell the difference.Not a surprise the sharty is full of abandoned children like that. lilfeller is unironically fucked for life.
>>7747461Don't most Jap artists do this?
who cares
>>7747461All the Mangakas trace, or have assistants who finish their drawings. They now use AI too.Mangakas a do whatever it takes to finish the job.
>>7748286Based tracechads. Keep on tracing. Ignore all the artcel haters. (You) will make it.
Humans doing what a.i does.Usually artist that do this don't last long in the industry. >>7747892Usually.
>>7748286>WHY IS IT WHEN WE DO TRACING OURSELVES, ITS BAD AND WE SHOULD FEEL BAD!?no one says this, at best tracing is a crutch that stunts your long term growth but like all tools there's a time and place for it
>>7747461every nip traces. you retards think the dragged and dropped backgrounds and filtered sketchup/clip studio assets are drawn too. they steal and rip off everything. jojo poses are all from magazines with bug eyes added. prince of tennis has interviews talking about "reference" books the assistants had to trace from magazines and having hundreds of poses ready to steal, i mean, "draw" when needed. berserk is all ripped off designs from evil dead or stolen compositions and entire scenes from famous art, but morons have zero art education and seal clap about how cool it is. one punch man steals shit all the time too. the entire maze for the alien ship is stolen from guy that spent a decade drawing it. no credit given. nip jeans = stealing. all asians have zero creativity. you give them a hammer and they can make you a hundred hammers. you give a hammer to whites and they build civilization. thats the difference between bugmen and the rest of us.
>>7748162Define tracing
>>7748469Define tracing
>>7748479any drawing not done from imagination.
>>7748501You’re gonna lose your mind when you actually learn how to draw
>>7748501lmao
>>7748501based
>>7747661None of those basketball images are traced though?
>>7748154>>7748575
outside of unlicensed/copyrighted stuff like this, unironically what's wrong with tracing?
>>7747834shut the FUCK up you little cunt
>industry with idiotic deadlines>assistants must be paid by the author themselves>Publishers pay like shit unless you become fuck you mainstream>duuude why do so many mangaka trace??
>>7748695they're not tracing though
>>7748039Boy wait till you find out about chink tracers
>>7747469He should've simplified the bag to make it less obvious but it's retarded and stupid that nodraws care this much.
>>7748653>unironically what's wrong with tracing?I say nothing - it's the same with all the whinging regarding using 3D models in your work.Now it will handicap you if you become too dependent on it, but if it increasing your output and ensures it meets your deadlines, and doesn't lower your quality (or not by much), then it shouldn't be an issue.
>>7748695people in japan become mangaka either because>they've got fuck all to do/are unemployed>can't work or are mentally ill>are shut-ins or have crippling social anxiety>they can't do anything elsePublishers know this and Japan has people making comics like grass in a field, so they can fully exploit it since if you, as a mangaka, aren't delivering, someone else is already on-call to take your placeEven if you make "fuck you" money, you actually have to pump out more content and have to deliver on tighter deadlines than before.In grorious nippon you can't even self-publish because the big 3 will send yakuza to you and oh so based nipponese will not care about your shit unless it is published by big corporation since the market for manga is 50% teenagers and the rest is just old dudes still hooked up on wanpiss
>>7749712>Even if you make "fuck you" money, you actually have to pump out more content and have to deliver on tighter deadlines than before.isn't the point of "fuck you" money that you can say "fuck you, I'm not doing that?"
>>7749741You gonna pay yer taxes, mate?
>>7748293>brainwashed by fake religions and fake godsLike all Gods?If you believe in any God, I have really bad news for you and your lack of self awareness.
>>7747461I don't really think the issue is just that it is tracing. It is a matter of tracing other commercial work or not asking permission with private images.
This is how mangakas can do 16 pages a week, much of it is traced lifted and/or photobashed. No way they'd hit their deadlines otherwise.It is what it is.
>>7747461>This is a huge scandalNobody fucking cares. Touch grass and you'll quickly realize people don't give a shit about how you got content done, people just want instant results.
I'm not in favor of tracing generally speaking, but like everything there's degrees to it. I think it's somewhat more acceptable in a manga/comics environment where you've got tight deadlines to worry about, especially if the traced parts only make up a small part of the whole work. Commercial illustrations are more questionable since you're being paid for the composition and design as much as you are for the actual art. How closely you trace the model obviously matters too – most of the Jojo pictures here >>7747892 could hardly be called traced, while OP's picture is just a flat-out copy of the original down to the details of the outfit. And tracing someone else's commercial work as opposed to just some random picture is obviously a different can of worms altogether.
>>7747599I thought they were just referencing the photo, too, but it's pretty exact.
>>7750007The middle eastern religions are specially stupid, chasing rocks and hating dogs because they don´t let you have gay sex kind of stupid. Modern Christianity teaches good values and morals. Its not the same
>>7747461Of course they use references, this is their job, and no, it’s probably not traced, just copied. These people are trying to put food on the table, not impress 10 other autists on deviantart, they will use every tool at their disposal instead of drawing from imagination. Every artist throughout history has used references, completed and sold works completely based off references, almost 1:1, you are just handicapping yourself for no reason if you don’t.
My butthole
>>7750800>these people are trying to put food on the table, not trying to impress 10 autists on the internetSo much this. Every time I see like any arguments about using any kind of methods boils down to "you wont improve" or "you will handicap yourself". For what? To get validation from 100 random autists because you did it the 'correct' way? Just use any method that works for you to get the job done. Anyone who finishes projects are always, always going to progress compared to the ones who only ever grinds and studies but rarely finishes projectsNow on other hand, if you trace over copyrighted materials... Lol. You should know better. Either transform it enough that you can claim fair use or find non-copyrighted methods
Trace to meet that deadline baby
>>7747461i probably wouldn't try very hard for a corporation, either. who gives a shit, they're just trying to sell sodium and grease bombs disguised as "food". they don't need real art for that, nor do they deserve it.
>>7750007>He capitalizes the invisible sky wizard's name.Yikes, still brainwashed I see.
>>7750800> and no, it’s probably not traced, just copiedyou can see in the examples posted in this thread it was literally traced
>>7747461>all those faggots not seeing similaritiesShows who wasn't doing any studiesBunch of nodraws lmao
>>7748653>what's wrong with tracing?there's a cold hardness from a photo that is transported into your drawing. Artists can see through it btw. Result is souless art.
lmao
>>7747461That's why displease any single one of the self called "artists", specially on twitter. The guy is doing his job, he probably works with deadlines and he needs to make it easier and faster, because it's HIS JOB. And then some retards start exposing the guy, even thought he made the work by himself, no one here or the twitter "artists" would be able to draw that backgroud. I'm sick of retards thinking that art is a sacred thing, normies don't care, they enjoy the final product, it's just another job/hobby. I hope all the people exposing him suffer on life. Pieces of shit.
>>7750918This, it why I post my ai creations online and anoying people keep @ ING me. Haha it's the future fuck off retard am I right?
>>7751040Learn english first.
