>>7748523
Jesus Christ I never realized how wonky those eyes look

>>7748524
Those eyes are what made pokemon look signature and now it's just gay and goofy.

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>>7748521
The vast majority of the problem seems to be that ever since the digital switch a ton of artists and studios have lost their sense of color theory, which I assume is because mixing paints for proper tones was a forced necessity back when cel animation was mainstream, but now it's much easier to just pick a random tone that vaguely looks right

>>7748552
Those are just mediocre zoomers that have absolutely no talent whatsoever.

>>7748521
their monitors settings were different

>>7748719
>zoomers were animating Pokemon in the early 2000's
damn, time flies by

>>7748552
This is largely it, not necessarily because it was necessary in the past, but because the physical constraints of real lighting naturally constrains the color palette. It sounds dumb, but you can get really traditional looking digital paintings just by doing a PBR render of the image in Blender. If you want to be extra about it, you can even make little cels and stack them up so all your characters have a bit of a drop shadow to them.

>>7748521
How come the backgrounds look different when they still were trad?

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>>7748828
nothing actually changed about the colors they picked, grain and color distortion from film degradation changed how cel painted anime look

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>>7748842
True, but also you're a retard. The original has way better color cohesion than the remake.

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>>7748842
That's true but it's only a small part of it, we have the actual cels and background paintings and quality well preserved digital masters of traditional animation and the colors were just better than anything made on digital

>>7748521
I wanted that egg thing to die so bad so I could see Misty's knobs again.

>>7748965
lmao I didn't realize that was a self sensor by the creators themselves

>>7748966
censor*

>>7748521

digital media is superior because it is clean, easier to make, and costs zero dollars to make (unless you're an adobefag).

what you call "soulful" is just noise and other imperfections caused by the inherently messy nature of physical media and the aging analogue equipment used to scan and display them.

if you think that digital art looks "worse", then it's because the artist is either using lossy formats or they did not put in enough effort to make the digital art look good.

>>7749022
>what you call "soulful" is just noise and other imperfections

Yes, and those things are good. Lossy digital art looks better.

>>7749047
if there was ever such thing as an objectively wrong opinion about anything, it would be "imperfection is good"

>>7748719
>mediocre zoomers that have absolutely no talent whatsoever.
tadayoshi yamamuro (art supervisor for dbs) is a zoomer?

>>7748521
Drawing traditionally forces you to understand color theory in a way digital doesn't. Also we are just naturally attracted to the texture of paint and digital can at best only simulate something 90% of that.

>>7748521
I experienced something similar and the thing is on paper you don't have the same feeling and attrition of the real paper as well as using digital tools like layers that makes the entire work more clean.

>>7749530 (me)
*on digital you don't have the same feeling and attrition

>>7748552
GODDAMN LEFT IS SO MUCH BETTER

>>7749530
you know those were drawn and painted with a brush on plastic, right?

>>7749246
Unbelievably retarded opinion. You should kill yourself, anon.

>>7749572
The backgrounds are usually drawn on paper

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>>7748521
Pokemon is especially strange because of just how utterly fucked the color palettes get as time passes

>>7749688
after 3 it’s over

>>7748521
Yes.

>>7748521
You can produce whatever look you want in digital. It's just not worth it most of the time because replicating the past is not really that impressive and the current prevailing styles are what people want

>>7749850
>the current prevailing styles are what people want
People want slop

>>7749850
You can't get the texture of physical, or at best it actually becomes harder to replicate it compared to digital. I won't delude myself into thinking you can't get close to it for the insanely talented though but those people have studied traditional and mostly do digital for ease of streaming or other budget reasons.

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>>7748552

t. knows nothing about anime production but must comment

>>7749864
>People want slop
True. Every era has slop for the common man though.
>>7749952
>You can't get the texture of physical, or at best it actually becomes harder to replicate it compared to digital.
I guess if you're trying to draw it by hand? It's not that hard to find a texture online or scan/photograph something from IRL and use it as a texture. Most digital art software apps have filters that can modify an image however you want, like https://gmic.eu/gallery/
>I won't delude myself into thinking you can't get close to it for the insanely talented though
With the recent advancements in technology, you don't really need as much talent or knowledge to get a desired effect. Good taste and an eye for detail still need to be cultivated, so that you can make something appealing though. I would expect that experienced traditional artists are usually superior in those areas. Probably even more so going forward

>>7749864
>People want slop
yeah, in the west kek. sadly many westerners are still children that are stuck in nostalgic delusion and cannot see art quality beyond surface level accidents of the medium (like noise or imperfections) or the most broad strokes of a style (in comes the low res meme)

anime drawing tech has gotten so advanced it's literally incomprehensible to the westoid now. (not that even 80s stuff really was lol)

>>7748886
>The original has way better color cohesion than the remake.
Citation needed? Can we get a fact check on this?

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So I was wondering about the same thing but instead of anime, it was PS2 graphics, especially MGS3. So I looked up interviews, development blogs, other PS2 games, just to see how could anyone create such a mood without any of the modern PBR lighting or anything. After weeks of research it comes down to:
>It was simply hard work.
Turns out, the same thing happened to Twin Snakes (Gamecube) developers, they thought MGS2 engine was black magic, and when they looked around turns out it was simply hard work nothing else.

For example:
Lighting is baked in the world. The shadows on the player is just a texture that animates when you move. There was nothing realistic, just a load of texture work for everything. There was no secret sauce, just the bare minimum effort required to reach their vision.

I assume this is the case for anime too. The artists didn't put enough effort to make it look good. Which was bound to happen someday and it's only gonna get worse. The early Japan kino relied on the fact that employees treat their corporate overlords like gods. They will work on minimum wage for years even though the games they create were selling like gold. Remember the infamous, metal slug artists sleeping under their desks? But in the age of internet Zoomers aren't gonna do that. Just look around yourself:
Every single major game franchise or anime show is being lead by someone who was born in the 70s and was mentored directly by a boomer. Capcom is recycling their old stuff, Nintendo is basically the new disney relying on PR of their traditional IPs. It's gonna get worse for Japan.

>>7750036
>The artists didn't put enough effort to make it look good. Which was bound to happen someday and it's only gonna get worse.
>maaan like, I don't like draw but like, artists only get worse with time with their skills or something
westoids... westoids never change...

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>>7750052
I meant you won't see the same kind of commitment that you used to see from Japanese artists. I am not saying artists are lazy or less skilled, but you can't expect top-notch work while paying them minimum wage. It's just not gonna happen.

As I said, the key takeaway was: There's no secret sauce. People used to think Metal Slug devs had some super secret pixel art program that they use to churn out these sprites, and yet it was done pixel by pixel. A single sprite could take weeks.

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>>7749995
Basado

>>7750100
>I meant you won't see the same kind of commitment that you used to see from Japanese artists.
bro you know absolutely nothing about Japanese art. what makes you think you're qualified to make these statements? ignorance is one thing but proudly claiming such disparaging things about a group of people you have no clue about is cringe and low test behavior. Japanese artists (all the top level jobs like illustrators/character designers/anime directors) are the ones who put the most amount of hours (unthinkable numbers for people like you) into honing and optimizing their art skills to be the best they can be at their job.

>>7748552
It's not just color, the facial structure on the right is much worse than on the left, as is the volume on the clothing. Just look at the armor straps on the right compared to the sleeve folds on the left.

Notice how the lighting on his body changes accordingly with the light emitted by his hair on the left, versus zero change on the right.

>>7750036
>The early Japan kino relied on the fact that employees treat their corporate overlords like gods.
No, it was because the early stuff was made by real nerds with real passion and talent who loved what they did and were willing to put in the grueling effort to make it as good as possible to impress themselves. Now every single cel is outsourced to Korean and SEA slaves who don't care about anime at all and wish their overlords would just let them die already

>>7750173
>real passion and talent who loved what they did and were willing to put in the grueling effort to make it as good as possible to impress themselves.
see
>>7750165
>>7750052
>>7749995

you don't have even 1% of 2025 Japanese passion lil bro

>>7750193
The fuck are you talking about you brownoid nigcel

>>7750197
that you are a certified dunning kruger who has no art skill or any knowledge about Japanese art skill. muh passion is a cope anyway, passion alone is not enough. high art skill is the result of grinding multiplied by innate talent (both things westoids are *SEVERELY* lacking in 2025 compared to Japan).

>>7750036
>employees treat their corporate overlords like gods
It's not necessarily that. The westoid brain can't comprehend that someone might actually find pride in their work, regardless of the situation. They think quality is an unfortunate requirement for success, it's just a job and always done to minimum specifications. A minimum wage job deserves minimum wage work.

But someone who actually believes in their trade would strive to create the most quality work they can, always, not for money, but for essential spiritual reasons. It's a betrayal of purpose to say you are an artist, but at every turn avoid making art unless sufficiently compensated.

>>7750193
>lil bro
tico taco paco loco fresco eduardo amigo sombrero la rosa de la spicspicspic…

>>7750219
>But someone who actually believes in their trade would strive to create the most quality work they can, always, not for money, but for essential spiritual reasons
this. it's truly sad that building skills to a high level and then aiming to use those skills to their fullest extent in actual media has become a foreign concept to many in the west, but it's even more sad that they can't see it in Japan, or they might just be coping and refusing to acknowledge it because even basic wikipedia level knowledge about the artists would dispel all of their delusions.

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Older anime was done in poster colour using limited palettes. It also had extremely tight colour scripting that sort of seeped into the industry as a whole. If you like that sort of style, Studio Pablo still does it and its very cool to watch how fast they work.

I think Western stuff has a bit more variety right now. Not all of it I like (I think Invincible is kind of bland and Common Side Effects as well). I picked some of my favourites if you're interested. I really like Scavenger's Reign and Bluey's stuff. Bluey in particular is very cool because of how focused it is for its target audience. If you like painted stuff, Cullen Cole did excellent work on Blood of Zeus. Though I can understand if people are attached to the style cohesion a lot of eastern studios have nowadays, even if the trees are neon green.

There's a big difference in workflow too. Western artists use a a lot of base colour and lighting layers while working off a colour script (Vox Machina S3 credits show these off. Its very neat). Eastern artists use a ton of 3D of models and paint everything on top on only a few layers. Eyecager and Devin Elle Kurtz have good tutorials for working with lighting layers.
I think Luc(?) has some for working the eastern way digitally but he's from the west as far as I know. Eastern style tutorials are hard to find

>>7748552
>>7750157
Where are they even getting these misguided ideas about anime from? I've seen this exact talking point repeated verbatim.

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>>7750249
>even if the trees are neon green
oh no no no westoidbros

>>7750249
>Studio Pablo
I need to check more from South America. It's not a country that gets talked about in animation.

>>7750271
Not sure if shitpost but Its Japanese lol
>>7750255
This is a shitpost but it's funny

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>>7750249
Why does every western cartoon shill post that's otherwise neutral in tone always include an underhanded jab at Japan? I've seen it too many times already. Is it in your guys' USAID contract that you have to do this?

>>7750294
>Objectivity is considered insulting
He literally said he doesn't like all the variety in Western media. Weebs are such self-hating faggots it's insufferable.

>>7750294
Japanese background art is very nice too anon. I think the feature films have the best in the industry right now. Would you like me to shit on family guy's background art to make you feel better? OP was upset about the current lack of "soul" in background work. Im not going to show the guy a scene from spooner street. Overly similar palettes are simply a difficulty the eastern market is facing right now. The West absolutely has its own problems including obtuse workflows due to too many cooks in the kitchen.

>>7750294
Sensitive baby. And I really don't like most modern westoid stuff.
>>7750308
He says he doesn't like all of it, different.

>>7750308
>trees are neon green.
>implying silly Japanese can't color properly, le anime is colorful and epilepsy inducing amirite fellow anime watchers?
>I can understand if people are attached to the style cohesion a lot of eastern studios have
>implying silly Japanese all have samey styles
We know all the dogwhistles anon. It's not going to work here.

>>7749022
>costs zero dollars to make
Computers, graphics tablets and electricity all cost money. How do you not know that?

>>7750294
the cartoonist inevitably lets his true colors show for a moment, after all, nobody, not even the most ardent consumer of calarts can keep up the act with sincere belief that people will actually care about the toons for their own artistic (kek) merit.
ultimately, it has to be a social message of toons vs anime. or toons vs patriarchy, or whatever.

>>7750312
You mean there are some things he likes from Western animation? Wow. He should fucking cut himself because he likes anything from his culture like you.
>>7750314
>Not knowing anything about why animation is made in Japan and their culture's desire to strict conformity
Meds.

This thread is one thing weeb bait posting and about 7 different people falling for it.

>>7750322
/ic/ as a whole is one guy weebposting and everyone falling for it dude.

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>>7750321
>>Not knowing anything about why animation is made in Japan and their culture's desire to strict conformity
>Watching a single video essay on Japan and basing your entire worldview on Japanaimation on that reddit post explaining why school is so bad but at the same time the only period of joy, so the trope is prominent or something
Yikes...

>>7750324
I don't think it's necessarily weebposting but boomerposting who is probably also a weeb. OP is completely right btw.

I can't draw anything. I just polish and polish until it looks good, so the time I spend on a darwing is directly proportional to how good it is. Digital lets me speed up the polishing process a bit and hide my shitty fundamentals.

>>7750321
>You mean there are some things he likes from Western animation?
Unironically can not relate. I have:
>taste
>an artistic eye
>ability to draw anime

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>>7750327
>OP is completely right btw.
t. can't draw anime
many such cases of low CR ITT.

>>7750328
Wow, this is just like in Japan! Like the industry right now!"Digital truly has been a mistake" - Miyazaki

>>7750331
I should download this image and spam it non stop to accelerate the hate everyone has for it.

You guys have just reinvented religion but functionally shittier in every single metric

>>7750331
This is an example of ragebaiting but OP is talking about traditional vs digital and has nothing to do with whatever the hell you're trying to make it about.

>>7750335
You described all of modernity. Religion is seen as nonsense but since human's were naturally built to believe in the supernatural they make material cults instead.

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>>7748521
>How do you explain this phenomenon?

It was already explained well by Azuma on Miyazaki.

>Azuma points to this as emblematic of a deeper shift in postmodern otaku culture - a move from expressive labor to data-driven production. "The transition is not merely technical," he writes, "but ontological. What is lost is not just texture, but intention. The warmth of the human hand becomes a casualty of optimization." Miyazaki's frustration is less about tools, and more about the quiet surrender to convenience over craft.

>>7750336
Analog vs digital has literally nothing to do with drawing technique. Only no-anime handicapped westoids think that cells are some magical alien tech and somehow make your drawing quality better. The simple truth is that Japanese artists isn't stunted manchildred (ironic) stuck in the nostalgic past and prefer digital and the styles they have developed so far through their hard work.

>used to follow Yasuomi Umetsu obsessively
>guy did Kite, Mezzo, even random genga and layouts were full of grit
>characters looked like they lived hard lives, not like they were printed off a waifu assembly line
>that late-90s cel aesthetic mixed with ultra-violent energy
>his linework had teeth, like every stroke meant something
>you could see the tension in the poses, little imperfections that made it feel human
>then he moves to digital in the 2010s
>everything gets cleaner, but flatter
>faces lose their attitude, girls start looking like generic waifus
>linework has that telltale CSP overcorrected float
>colors go full gradient airbrush slop
>designs feel like they’re chasing trends instead of setting them
>the guy who once gave us blood-splattered noir girls is now doing lifeless concept art that looks AI-adjacent
>zoomers eat it up on Twitter
>”based Umetsu still got it”
>no he doesn’t
>he lost it when he traded paper for a screen
>not even bad now, just irrelevant
>mfw we’ll never get another Kite-tier cut from him again
>tfw digital stole another soul

>>7750343
>all this cope to apologize for literal art decay
lmao
>It-it-it-its better actually...
LMAO

>>7750357
>literal art decay
Show us how it's decaying.

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>>7748521
>used to stare at Kawamoto’s Cowboy Bebop model sheets for hours
>his lines were loose but confident
>jump to post-2010s work
>everything’s too clean, too symmetrical
>mfw even the kings are polishing their soul off frame by frame

>>7749688
Fucking kek, why does the grass become blue?

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>>7750359
>young frog-in-well has eyes, but cannot see OP

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>>7750361
You gotta be fluid, like water.

>>7750366
>toonami dragon ball is all of anime o algo
Concession accepted.

but when tumblrinas say “it’s just my style” it’s BAD huh?

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this meme template is kinda kino soul, ngl.
>used to study Naoyuki Onda’s Serial Experiments Lain designs
>his characters had this great soulful quality
>goes digital
>soulfulness and quality plummets and never recovers
>mfw the guy who gave us Mushishi and Haibane Renmei now draws characters that look like they belong in a EVA rebuild commercial

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>>7750374
Instead of doing a legitimate artstyle, tumblrinas overuse quirks. The difference between them is that a true style is a development of some aesthetic + shape language to its conclusion. It's specifically designed by a master to showcase some aspect of aesthetics and the human experience throw his own vision.
Recognizability in a sea of equally "recognizable" gimmicky styles is just that, another gimmick in an endless sea of gimmicks, drawn only to be mocked by later generations and ultimately contributing nothing to art. With gimmicky styles you perceive the gimmick first, and then what little content it has. With a real style you see the content at the same time as the individuality of the artist. Think of when you see AI sloppa, you think it's sloppa and only then you see whatever it's trying to depict, unless your brain has been fried and you don't immediately feel revulsion towards it. It's not any different with tumblr or calarts.

Western art had real styles before the woke virus laid waste to it. Take any great renaissance master and you see stylistic cohesion without any loss of recognizability or individuality. Western man, if you want to make the west great again, you can't afford to play around and be antagonistic towards anime. Failure to learn from it is failure to restore western glory to the arts.

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>>7748521
We are just used to it. The imprefections of life is more natural for use that raw digital output inhernently lacks. This is no longer as big of a problem as many talented people are discovering methods to make digital look nearly identical to traditional. >>7748552 for example, DB Super: Broly proves they can make artwork that very much mimicks the feeling watching OG Dragon Ball to the point that if companies just let artists have all the power and control, they can make it standard and do away with the unnaturalness digital art has by default.

>>7749246
>it would be "imperfection is good"
It is. It's natural. The more we defy nature, the more evil this world becomes.

>>7750005
>>7750052
Kill yourself.

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>>7750388
>Damn, this post makes a lot of sense, I wonder wh-
>if you want to make the west great again, you can't afford to play around and be antagonistic towards anime. Failure to learn from it is failure to restore western glory to the arts.

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>>7750335

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>>7750486
By anime we mean broadly all the mediums associated with it that utilize anime art for storytelling. If you're willing to ignore the greatest artistic tradition that's happening right before your eyes, then I'm afraid you were not up to the challenge in the first place and would turn your back the same had you been born in the 1000s, 1500s, 1800s, etc. If you want an easy example, consider crypto. A lot of people complain about not being there in 2009, but they would have lacked the intelligence and wisdom (or bravery to go against joker-society) to see its true value even if they had been among the first people to hear about it, but for those with qualities that make them detect high value it was a no-brainer. These qualities, aka having high taste, can be trained but one needs deprogramming from all the psychological warfare the three-letter agencies have been engaging in.

How could one exchange artistry for the false sense of comfort gained from conforming to a decadent clown system? The post makes sense to you but there's still an irrational mental block...

Western man, you can turn away or be a part of something artistically great, or at least be a kind supporter cheering others on from the sidelines. The train still moves on, with or without you.

>>7750506
Anime as a majority has sucked around the time they went digital and China is becoming more effective at slop than Japan. It exists for you to stare at lights and jerk off to while the world goes to shit not for anything deeper.

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>>7750557
You are either an edgy fedora-tipping child who has yet not seen the life changing power of the medium, or simply a golem whose heart has been excised from his body long ago and replaced with garbage that can only reduce everything to the most base of desires. It's your choice if you want to stand up for yourself and for what's right, or allow yourself to be robbed you of any joy and value you can find in art.

>>7750557
This is true, but I think it's more correlation than causation. The switch to digital also coincided with anime starting to go mainstream in the west.

>>7750582
Maybe. A lot of the religious aspects and anything to do with masculinity got replaced even in shonen by this point. Having the option to just turn everything into extremely bright colors instead of having a limited palette to work around didn't help matters though.

>>7750582
>>7750584
How do you evaluate writing quality objectively? How do you evaluate art quality objectively? Give a justification for your framework. Unless you can answer these challenges and give concrete meta-analysis of anime pre and post digital you're just another dunning kruger pseud who should be laughed at because you put your fee-fees before truth. This is the bare minimum required to even speak on the topic, anything else is no better than a tumblrina posting xer queer analysis of insert Shakesperian work here.

>>7750591
I judge writing by its themes and ability to transmit those themes and a story with no moral theme at all sucks because it misses the point of stories which is to simplify positive real lessons in a way that we can understand and emulate them. The rest has a level of subjectivity.

>>7750584
>freedom and full control over art and the medium is actually bad for creation
Golem mentality. Makes sense that actual creators who are skilled prefer digital for anime creation and have good reasons, while /ic/ is childishly stuck in nostalgia and cannot grow up.

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>>7750597
They want the goy to seek chaos and disguise it as freedom which is what the technological age has brought. Japan used to associate that with demons.

>>7750595
What does that mean? Just having x,y,z, themes makes it quality? Or is it in development of the themes to a deep conclusion? Lessons to emulate are a natural result of writing but it's a common issue for zoomers to not be able to interpret anything in stories beyond the most surface level and mistake moral messaging itself for depth.
>this thing is overtly bad, so if the story has it and doesn't give a sermon about how it's bad then the story is bad!
>it doesn't have these socially accepted markers of depth in great enough quantity (usually superficial references), so it's bad!

How is anime post digital lacking at all in storytelling when it's the era when it started developing its own language and identity of storytelling? Simply because it's not "le deep" like muh cinema movies and you can't understand it or like it?
>it's superficially bright and has le girls so it has nothing to say on darkness and masculinity or insert other topic of interest
If you can't write an analysis of pre and post digital in terms of storytelling and art don't even bother replying.

>>7750598
Order and harmony is key to anime artstyles. Technology as in machines have nothing to do with technology as in drawing/artstyle besides giving the freedom for less random chance and chaos to influence the result.

This is the simplistic understanding I'm decrying. Westerners think symbols/concepts can only ever have on meaning in every context. Technology was discussed in one work as leading to dystopia so every work exploring technology from a different aspect must be evil! I A child's understanding of the world is more complex than this.

>>7750601
I don't care enough to write an essay for some edgelord teenager. Maybe that other anon will. Good examples of storytelling are in stuff like Fist of the North Star, 79 Gundam, and Dragon Ball and despite some of them having "technical" narrative issues you end up not giving a shit because the story does a good job at making the themes apparent and the characters likable that you are invested into the story that you ignore some of the inconsistencies just like you do in real life with a person you like. Achieving noble and selfless qualities feels entirely possible for you and the story thus succeeds at teaching you a lesson you feel motivated to do in the real world.

Bad examples of story-telling include basically every shonen and every slice of life anime nowadays. Most of the "deep" ones like Attack on Titan are actually just dogshit that are as preachy as you hate except they don't tell you to even be a good person but just to succumb to nihilism despite their world being anything but realistic.

>>7750604
The industrial revolution is evil and was a scourge from demonically possessed people (the Anglos) to punish the natural world God created to seek more power. You can use tools to create good but technology was created to birth chaos and without this knowledge you won't be able to use it for good.

>>7750607
>it makes me feel good so it's good. it if doesn't immediately make me feel good or includes things I disagree with or find hard to understand then it's bad
We're reaching tumblrina levels of lit analysis here. Nothing objective. Only feelings.

>>7750591
"Shonen" is more or less synonymous with wish-fulfillment and power fantasy, it's the basest form of writing. Pre-2012-ish anime tended to have something of a philosophical bent, even if it was pretty pretentious at times. More and more, we've been getting shows that rely solely on flashy visuals with some truly barebones themes stapled on as an afterthought. Obviously, shonen has always existed, but nowdays it's really the only thing that exists. More mature demographics have become watered down so much at this point that there might as well not be a distinction between shonen and seinen. It used to be an out of touch boomerism that anime is "children's cartoons", but it's not far from the truth nowdays. We haven't gotten anything like what came from creators like Mamorou Oshii, Satoshi Kon, Akiyuki Shinbo, Hideaki Anno, and many others from that era - even from franchises they worked on themselves.

>>7750608
The demons want you to believe that creation is evil so you're already falling for their lies. Read more quality lit and up your observational skills. (technology is just God's creation arranged in a certain order according to man's creative gift, it can't be evil unless matter itself is evil).

>>7750611
Nothing to explain why/how they are good and why anything else (which you aren't even know about) is bad. Didn't expect more than this honestly, namedropping socially palatable director names (people have told you are le good cinema) and bashing shonen (not hard to do at all) is the only thing you can expect from these discussions usually.

>>7750613
You haven't provided a single counter-example, so as far as I'm concerned, my poor evidence is better than your no evidence. Being a contrarian doesn't make you smart or correct. If you can explain why the slow death of culture is a myth, please do, I'm all ears.

/x/fags are so dreadfully dull

>>7750622
I agree, even as someone who likes occult crap.

They could at least put some effort into it so their shit doesn't sound like a 12 year old's SCP fic. Fuck, if you want to spout pseudo-religious bullshit, read some actual fucking theology for once.

>>7750557
>China is becoming more effective at slop than Japan

No, lol. Chyna had 1 (one) hit this year but you refresh your eyes with Japanese animation and you quickly realize it was so-so. Japan will retain its crown for cartoons simply because it's a free country of expression like America and China isn't.

>>7750612
Souls are intrinsically not evil but rather good who can be lacking the fullness of good due to distance from the source of all that is good. Technology has no soul so it does not apply. They are tools which were created with the purpose of obfuscating our connection with nature and thus what is good. You CAN use technology for good, but a spiritually deficient world such as this will not have corporations using it for that. Connecting with the source of all good requires one to be aware of their consciousness and modernity has created tricks to purposefully make us unaware of its own existence.

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>>7750620
I'm questioning your worldview and pointing out the broken logic underlying your assumptions about art. Any "evidence" to be admissible here requires you understanding the things you're talking about and having an actual justification that's not based in feelings or societal consensus.

>slow death of culture is a myth
The burden of proof is on you to explain it and prove it. I'm attacking your baseless claims about pre and post digital anime and its storytelling. It's an epistemic attack that shows you are an incompetent dunning kruger. How will you deal with this fatal blow?

>>7750628
These guys can't grasp that anime's visual quality hinges so much on skilled people doing corrections and character designs. They think that some Chinese guy serving coffee at a Japanese studio automatically makes him a Japanese animator that can do the same things as Japanese studios when he returns home to China.

>>7750631
If you argue that these creations from us do in-fact possess a level of consciousness unique to it's creator akin to the feelings you get from an art piece being separate from the artists then you still have to purify the technology with your own spirit and convince it to fight against what it was created for. Not impossible but requires immense spiritual strength a man in modernity is ill-equipped for.

>>7750631
Sounds like gnostic nonsense. If you don't misuse the tool towards evil ends then you're not committing evil acts. No secret knowledge is needed to not use tech for evil and follow your conscience even if the temptation towards evil is going to be there, in fact tech is not special in this case.

>>7750639
>Accuse me of being a gnostic despite claiming that the natural world is beautiful and not a delusion created to separate us from the source of all good.
You have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not saying technology is intrinsically evil but it was designed to lead you to evil and to become too attached to material pleasure and one's ego. Be cautious like you would if you are near a dark alley and you'll be less tempted.

>>7750628
No one gives a shit about freedom of expression (really), that's kind of the underlying issue here. Philosophy and literature gives tools to look critically at the world, and those are the things falling out of favor en masse. The people don't want it, they want to be told who the good guys and the bad guys are and watch them fight it out with big neon swords. The slop is welcomed.

>>7750632
So, how exactly is one to explain how cultural tastes have changed without... societal consensus. Riposte. En garde. Retard.

>>7750642
No one cares about cultural tastes or the latest Tumblr posts here. This is a serious gathering where we deal in the realm of facts. The question under examination is the degradation of art and storytelling quality pre and post digital anime.

Unless you provide an answer to the triple challenge of post number >>7750591 using facts, logic and truth instead of consensus, tastes and feelings you will be branded an incompetent dunning kruger that does not understand storytelling.

>>7750641
I don't mean you are gnostic, just that the idea seems gnostic that you need to have secret info on the conspiracy about tech to use it properly. Intentions of the creators of the tech wouldn't matter, they don't hold that kind of power.

>>7750647
>Oh no! Some random teenager on 4chan won't respect me.
Go right ahead. This is an online server and I'm fully anonymous because I grew up when the Internet wasn't obsessed with clout. Storytelling for millennia has existed to speak to our conscience and since science can't even properly define what a conscience is you'll never get an "objective" answer.

>>7750649
You lack any sense of awareness and are oblivious that this site exists to ragebait and to keep people perpetually doing nothing. Even myself with this much level of awareness am unable to fully yet break from this chain of my ego and yet you think the average normie can.

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>>7750375
1. I didn't realize Onda was on SEL and Haibane, but I really can't find any sources that credit him there
2. Onda never lost his soul even in digital. Hathaway was like 3 years ago and it's his best looking production yet.

>>7750647
Clearly you care, you're still responding, even if you are just a troll.

Regardless, believing any and all insight is to be gained through logic and logic alone is in itself grounds to disregard that belief. And no, I'm not explaining that.

Make an actual argument to the contrary, or I'm bored and gone.

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>>7750656
1. sorry. it was just a silly meme parodying the ignorance of plebbitors like OP about anime staff.
2. yeah Onda is so good. hathaway 2 soon and hopefully 3 too. i still rewatch parts of 1 quite often.

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>OP wanted to know about ramifications of traditional to digital
>post two examples both from "Japanese" anime
>retards arguing about thing = bad but thing from japan = good
Weebs need to max level right now

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>>7750677
>thing = bad but thing from japan = good

>>7750036
Metal slug 3 is the absolutely best one. I would 100% sleep under a desk for minimum wage to be part of a project like that

Funnily enough they can still do it but for some reason decide not to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueB0oNajuEg

>>7750711
I wonder why, is Japan, the country with the highest concentration of humanity's most skilled artists in the world at this moment, just artistically retarded or..... maybe................. nostalgia...... manchildren.... are?

>>7750714
A lot of it is due to population decline. Many of those skilled artists never had children and never passed down their craft. And on the flipside, the younger generations are just more interested in making money than anything else, and craft skills are an exceptionally poor effort-to-value conversion.

>>7750731
So true man. Drawing on a cell requires so much more hardcore drawing skill, it's like the dark souls of drawing. A stylus or a pencil simply does not compare.

>>7750737
True, even harder than Dark Souls since DS is babby shit

>>7750743
It's the Dark Souls 3 of drawing

>>7750711
>Funnily enough they can still do it but for some reason decide not to
It's simply budget. Either you pay them enough or give them more time. Let's not forget how filler heavy DBZ was when it was coming out. Scenes were recycled all the time. You would not tolerate that today.

>>7750748
You say that, but the Cyberpunk show had about 12 frames total per episode. And somehow people still liked it for some reason.

>>7749995
>dunning-kruger anon calling others dunning-krugers while misusing a poorly understood study
/ic/ the post

>>7748886
why is the lower image smeared in vaseline?

>>7748886
i prefer the remake, it looks more feminine
the original looks as if it was drawn by a lesbian

>>7751645
Well if the fanbase is anything to go by, it probably was.

>>7750748
You don't get it, man. Watching a show on TV in the 90s was quite different from streaming anime nowadays.

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I only started painting during the pandemic and I'm already using ai to make my stuff "more realistic"

Anime nowadays is much, much better than what it was in the 80s-00s, both in an artistic and thematic sense. You guys are just seeing it with nostalgia goggles.

>>7751680
That's like advocating for modern hollywood slop because the camera angles and special effects are more bombastic and the themes more exotic.

>>7751687
Yes, it is.

>>7751689
Shallow.

>>7751680
you could maybe argue for 2000s, everything after 2010 is markedly worse

>>7751702
you probably were ~17 years old in the 00s, you are just biased

>>7751706
I wasn't
Has it occurred to you that you're projecting your own bias towards modern anime?

>>7751710
it has been scientifically proven that people are biased towards preferring shows, music, books, etc. they encountered during their teenage years

it has always been like this, "everything was better 2 decades ago"

>>7751713
ok, retard, has it occurred to you that you are the rule and not me, since older generations weren't consuming so much media and I didn't discover anime until late in life?

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>>7751680
I disagree, it's incredibly hard to find modern anime whose worlds feel like real places where people live even when the plot isn't taking place, when that used to be basically the default

No amount of technology and flashing lights and effects can make up for something as fundamental as that

>>7751740
Of course it is that way, saying that was better is just nostalgia speaking. People nowadays don't just "live", everything is much more dynamic and interesting now, constantly going from one place to the next. All the filler you could see in 90s anime wouldn't be tolerated today.

>>7748719
>mediocre zoomers
God, you idiots really evolved the term "zoomers" into "people I don't like", fucking smoothbrains.

>>7751746
Try Ritalin or Adderall

>>7751746
retard

>>7751748
I agree with this one. Gen Zers with respect and interest for the old are actually more tolerable than "how do you do fellow current thing enjoyers" nihilistic millenials.

>>7751775
That "respect" is precisely what is destroying our society right now.

>>7751776
You can't just keep saying things that are the polar opposite of the observable truth and expect people to treat them as actual arguments

>>7751780
you can fellate or dilate yourself

>>7751780
boomers + gen x + older millennials really looked at the world, pressed “loan from the future,” and hit confirm without reading the terms and conditions. now we’re here, paying interest on their delusions, digging through the ruins for rent money, and they still demand respect like it’s a tithe. respecting them isn’t virtue, it is both a cognitive and moral failure.

>>7751740
>feel
facts don't care about your feelings.

>>7751786
And it's a fact that modern anime fails to create that feeling

>>7751870
>feelings
Facts don't care about your feelings.

> modern anime
only someone unfamiliar with anime (i.e. clueless people who think whatever they watched on toonami as a kid is all of anime) even talk like there is some generic modern anime instead of things made by certain people. you don't speak or think like an artist.

>>7751887
And it's a fact that modern anime fails to create that feeling

>only someone unfamiliar with anime (i.e. clueless people who think whatever they watched on toonami as a kid is all of anime) even talk like there is some generic modern anime instead of things made by certain people. you don't speak or think like an artist.
Blanket statements exist to cover the majority of the cases (with a blanket), watching any old anime means there's a good chance the world will feel real regardless of who worked on it, whereas watching any new anime means there's a good chance the world feels empty and artificial regardless of who worked on it

>>7751895
>feels
Facts do not care about your feelings. It's peak tumblr to categorize and demean things not based on their essence but based on what feelings they cause in you (especially when you're seeking escapist nostalgia and feelings in the first place instead of trying to learn the actual craft behind the art).
Feelings are meaningless when it comes to evaluating art because they depend on a multitude of external and unpredictable factors. Feelings can be changed and influenced with skill and new information, but the art will stay the same regardless so if you can't actually analyze the art itself for what it is, your opinion has no deeper value. It will always remain the complaints of a man child who wants nostalgia and can't articulate anything beyond basic emotional responses.

It's really ironic that people are using the "Facts do not care about your feelings" meme on a board about discussing art, which is all about feelings.

>>7751931
Art creation and critique is not about your feelings.

>>7751956
It literally is. That's what it all boils down to.

>>7751959
For people with no skill, sure that's ultimately what it boils down to because they have no other option. It's admirable that you at least admit it instead of dressing it up in pseud lingo like the guy railing against anime. But your mindset is what lead to the rampant spread of dunning kruger in the west, people think there is nothing more to art than whatever they can grasp from their extremely low position.

>>7751966
Skills to do what, exactly? You could expend your whole life being the best at doing something, but your expertise doesn't mean anything unless you link it with your feelings in one way or another.

>>7751901
>It's peak tumblr to categorize and demean things not based on their essence
Interesting, define essence

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AAAAAAAAAAANIGGGERMANN THERE"S NO MORE SHITTY BLOOOM AND ANTIALIASING ON SHITTY LOW QUALITY CELLSSSSSS
AAAAAA WHEY ISN"T EVERYCOLOR PALLETTE A MIZ OF THE SAME SHITTY JAPANESE LAYOUT PAINT PALLETTE AAAAAAA LITERALLY UNWATCHABLE AAAAA
that's what you guys sound like desu

>>7752015
Anime had dark, washed out color look to it all the way up until 2009ish. It can't be le digital being the issue. Maybe the monitors or something.

>>7752021
Screens were all bright, now all screens are all dark, we live in darker times. Anime is a form escapism, so now anime bright.

>>7752011
>Skills to do what, exactly?
To create high level art.
>doesn't mean anything unless you link it with your feelings
Based goalpost shifting.

>>7752028
What is "high level art"? What differentiates it from other art? Why do you seek to create "high level art"?

> Based goalpost shifting.
Shifting it from what? Feelings are the beginning and end of art making. People who genuinely believe it is something else just lack self awareness.

>>7752013
>the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character
>a property or group of properties of something without which it would not exist or be what it is.
If you can't even understand what makes up the art and why it is the way is it, then you're in no position to le critique because at best you're only good at describing very broad traits of the works and at worst you're trying to push your psychological state and feelings (a thing nobody cares about in an art critique context because you have no skill) as the ultimate truth that everything should conform to or otherwise it's bad slop.

>>7752031
Art that takes extreme effort and skill to master, like anime. Don't want to answer the rest.
>Shifting it from what?
Nobody claimed feelings are unimportant to art, only to critique and the hard skills that make you draw better. Those don't change depending on feelings and you cannot boil them down to feelings which are subjective and fleeting.
>Feelings are the beginning and end of art making.
>People who genuinely believe it is something else just lack self awareness.
Based platitudes, but they won't make you better at art.

>>7752036
>Don't want to answer the rest.
Because the answer to these questions are precisely my point?

>>7751783
Even late gen x can't blamed for that, you're actually regarded if you think someone born in 1980 "borrowed from the future" and didn't hit adolescence long after everything got fucked

>>7752026

But I liked the dark look :'(

>>7752048
Becuase you don't care about the argument and are going to evade every point I make (as you've done right now) and shift the goalposts to make it about how feelings are a actually a part of art when that was never in question.

>>7752056
>but he won't learn to draw anime to make it the way he likes
Many such cases.

>>7751740
This isn't a Japanese exclusive thing and I don't know why you people are so obsessed with anime exclusively but storytelling as a whole started becoming way too "meta" and the goal of storytelling was to get people to make people pretend they aren't living in the real world rather than simplifying real world concepts in a way that's believable to our conscience.

>>7752137
The "real world" is over. We are in the middle of a transition phase and our future is uncertain.

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>>7752140
This world is transitory in nature. It was never the end goal. Stories that teach you how to best deal with this transition and how to obtain qualities to escape the cycle are more important than ever.

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>>7752092
You're like a recurring monster of the week.

>>7752153
My point is that art is not able to relate to the "real world" anymore because there is no real world anymore, only echoes of what it used to mean. How can art relate to something that’s already gone? At most what we get are ghosts trying to remember what living felt like.

>>7752140
You sound underage

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>>7750365
looks like atmospheric perspective to me.

>>7752163
Our consciousness knows what the natural world is like and that world still exists. Pure hedonism and shiny lights are not satisfactory to the soul and only suck long term, but since stories have been designed around making money and most of the people actually passionate about art are now gone they won't tell you this.

>>7750357
if you love traditional cell animation, you can literally just do it, digitally. 00s digital had limitations, but it's been 20 years, we have the technology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyz2pVqrEkI