>>7805079
Some western / indie publishers of Manga:

Saturday AM ( https://www.saturday-am.com/ )
> Digital indie magazine, seems to be on the up-and-up
> Open submissions for long-form series; also distributes series currently being published elsewhere.
> Regularly publishes one-shots, making it a good potential outlet for already-finished work.

Oni Press ( https://onipress.com/ )
> Technically indie, but at this point large enough by comic standards to be mentioned in the same breath as other publishers.

Antarctic Press ( https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/ )
> Longtime large-indie publisher of OEL / manga-esque books.
> Seemingly taking submissions at present if https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/pages/submissions is anything to go on.

Yen Press ( https://yenpress.com/ )
> Started out as a small indie publisher of original / Korean material, and has grown reasonably popular since.
> As of 2016, it is also one of the western arms of the Kadokawa Corporation, with Kadokawa owning a 51% stake.
> Editorial inquiries can apparently be sent to yenpress@yenpress.com, however, they apparently are not open to new submissions at this time.

Viz Media / Viz Originals ( https://www.viz.com/originals )
> *The* western manga publisher.
> Currently in the exploratory stages of setting up an English label.
> Submissions are open and several books have been announced. However, progress on the label seems to be moving very slowly.
> Still might be worth a shot anyway.

Shrine Comics ( https://shrinecomics.com/ )
> Small indie manga publisher
> Seemingly attempting to make the transition to physical volumes
> Allows crossposting to other sites

Iconic Comics (https://www.iconiccomics.com/)
>A bit like Oni Press and Antarctic Press
>A small publisher with a focus on indie works with manga inspiration

>>7805082
Other open comic publishers:

Dark Horse ( https://www.darkhorse.com )
>Dark Horse still welcomes your submissions, and all submissions will still be reviewed, just as they always have been.
>All unsolicited story/series proposals must have a full creative team on board. Writer-only proposals will not be reviewed.

Image comics ( https://imagecomics.com/ )
>Image Comics only publishes creator-owned material. They do not contract creators; they’re only interested in publishing original content for which you would retain all rights.
>Image Comics publishes creator-owned/creator-generated properties and THEY DON’T PAY PAGE RATES. Image takes a small flat fee off the books published, and it will be the responsibility of the creators to determine the division of the remaining pay between their creative team members.

Drawn and quarterly ( https://drawnandquarterly.com/ )
>Please email a low resolution PDF with at least 20 pages of comics and cover letter to submissions. Do not send dropbox links, scripts, or proposals. Please read our submissions FAQ.

Fantagraphics ( https://www.fantagraphics.com/ )
>submission page: https://www.fantagraphics.com/pages/faq

Top Shelf Productions ( https://www.topshelfcomix.com/ )
>Regarding submissions, we're easy. Just email us a download link of what you'd like us to review. NOTE: We cannot accept cover letters, plot synopses, or scripts unless they are accompanied by a minimum of 10-20 completed pages (i.e., fully inked and lettered comic book pages).

Additional publisher lists:
> https://jasonthibault.com/definitive-list-comic-publisher-submission-guidelines/
> https://writingtipsoasis.com/best-independent-comic-book-publishers/

>>7805083
/mmg/'s very own anon-led anthology: /ic/onography
https://discord.gg/QYnFBves7V
https://forms.gle/d3a2Cwwd44sJYyqv9
(Anthology project is defunct but the discord is alive)

Additional community added Resources:
Mangafonts: https://mangafonts.carrd.co/
Hiro Mashima YT: https://www.youtube.com/@mashimaCh/videos
Ganmo, a job listing board for manga assistant work: https://ganmo.j-comi.co.jp/posts

How (You) can help /mmg/:

> Know about a contest or a publishing opportunity? TAG THE OP and post a link.
> Have a new resource? TAG THE OP and link / mention it for inclusion.
> Don't be a crab
> Have a link / DL for a mentioned resource? TAG THE OP and mention what you're supplying a link for.
> SCREENSHOT / PASTEBIN effort posts that help you for posterity.

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What are some popular/successful shonen manga that don't feature heroine at all?
Other than in obvious genre such as sport or yankee of course, but even these genres still have female characters served as MC's love interests and such.
JoJo and Hunter x Hunter are the very few I can think of, but these two are fairly old.
I was wondering if limiting my comic only with all male casts could does more harm than good.

>>7805107
Animal Land.

fuck manga. I give up.

>>7805107
> was wondering if limiting my comic only with all male casts could does more harm than good.
If Hitman Reborn had any I sure don't remember people talking about them.

>>7805110
Just make a 4koma

>>7804994
This general is conceptually stupid. Unless you are planning to sell things in Japan you shouldn't care about manga tropes. The reason why most western "manga" is doomed to fail is because instead of trying to make a good universal product they just spend time hating themselves. Japanese value authenticity and can sense shameless copying by foreigners anyways.

>>7805114
Most manga isn’t a universal product. Manga is like rap. Americans, the creators of rap, are not looking out to listen to Japanese rap because they can’t understand it and if it is translated it loses too much in the translation. No one wants to hear a Japanese rapper in English with their accent.

>>7805121
>Most manga isn’t a universal product.
Correct. However if you're inspired by manga the ones you're trying to emulate are.
>Manga is like rap.
The really popular ones are inspired by Western artists. Manga selling is because they became at copying Disney and American superhero comics. Comics elsewhere simply either don't have the reputation or is difficult to get distributed.

>>7805126
>However if you're inspired by manga the ones you're trying to emulate are.
Speak for yourself.

>>7805120
What? Are you aware that prior star because they like it? What is this talk about products?? Are you unable to comprehend that that people here like drawing and want to make Manga because they LIKE IT....???

>>7805176
>Are you unable to comprehend that that people here like drawing and want to make Manga because they LIKE IT....???
The mental distinction between manga and comics does more harm to you than good. You are just saying comics in Japan. If you aren't marketing towards Japan you should just try to make a good comic that you can compose well instead of trying to become a fake Japanese.

Anyways what's everyone's goals before 2026?

>>7805205
Already completed my main goal. My next goal is to take a proper course on layouts and then next year hopefully start private lessons.

>>7805206
>private lessons
check out this nerd trying to get a manga tutor, NERD

>>7805205
Come up with a few solid plans for my next book and get one of them approved by my editor.

>>7805237
I should probably start planning from future books too. I'm still waiting for more feedback but from what was told to me last time I have a guess as to what they're going to tell me to focus on.

>>7805322
theres like one example with Radiant, but they dont publish the issues over there, just the volume releases.

From what ive read the best path for westerners is just make manga/comics, and then pitch it to publishers in volumes of maybe 200 pages, and if they dont bite, then upload them online and then later publish them yourself. Theres plenty of people who have done that, even people who put them out as webcomics first, and then later got publishers to look at them. Some of you guys here have better art then some of the big comics, like The Walking Dead for example

That's it, I'm fucking over manga, this shit is dead in the west. I'm going to draw colored webcomics featuring cute animals in relatable situations now.

>>7805322
It hasn't been done because you won't stop self-flagellating and trying to mimic a generic art style instead of just making something organic and interesting.

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>>7805327
unironically, do anthros in relatable situations. Theres so many cool designs for animal people, yet furries have co-opted them to be a weird sex thing. Theres a line in anthros with Blacksad on one side, and furaffinity on the other, and try to find it

>>7805322
Boichi's far from bad though.

>>7805326
>>7805365
yes there literally are already examples of foreigners making it, but it seems like unless specifically a burger makes it (unlikely because of how culturally/creatively ugly and dysgenic they are) they won't ever consider those as real wins, so theyll keep coping forever
>>7805329
go say this to the leddit fuckheads on r/mangamakers instead of here, almost non of the anons here do that, but then again you were never here for real discussion were you

>>7805332
Just call them kemonos already.
For better or worse, furfags are hard to sell to. If you're not making a Housepets clone then they won't touch it, even at gunpoint.

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We're 1 month 5 days into 2026, and people still dream of becoming a mangaka in Japan?
Oh, sweet summer children.
We as foreigners have much better chance to reach success by punting our saving into a shitcoin that goes 200x than by trying to create the next Kimetsu no Yaiba.
Let's get real here, guys.

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Hello, first time here.. What do you think

>>7805446
>specifically names demon slayer as benchmark of a successful manga
kek no wonder people like you can do nothing but cope, people naturally born with shit taste will also naturally be shit creators, very sad

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>>7805449
I'm not sure if you're implying that the bar is too low or too high.

>>7805451
just pyw already man

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvhGQRDdNbw
Some interesting takes from Manga-one's editor on what make a manga sells:
>elevator pitch
If an average joe asks "What kind of manga is this?", author should be able to grab their attention with just one sentence.
E.g. Sousou no Frieren: "An elven mage returns to the Demon King's castle once more, in order to understand the human heart."
>originality =/= interestingness
Manga that don't make the readers associate it with works that already exist more often than not alienate them instead of pulling them in.
>character = "talent"
You as the author is the talent manager, your job is to make your "idol" as marketable as possible. Do not ever let your "idol" do things that makes their fans butthurt.

>>7805447
She's cute! And very attention-grabbing style. Where can I see more of your work?

Resources to learn how to render manga in CSP? Not how-to-draw stuff, I just don't know where to look to learn CSP specific tricks to polish with screen tones and such

>>7805478
Is the elevator pitch something you can put at the back of the book if you're doing physical copies? I just put a regular 3-4 sentence summary at the bottom. I don't speak any Japanese and I want to ease the burden on my friend helping me as much as possible.

>>7805480
Thank you.. I post my drawings and attempts at manga on discord from time to time. My server is like a blog so no one else texts there. if you want you can message me directly and I'll add you - yark1044

>>7805478
Sounds creatively bankrupt.

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>>7805563
they're editors they have to think that way

How long has this general been here?

>>7805563
You are making entertainment with artistic elements, not art.

>>7805326
>From what ive read the best path for westerners is just make manga/comics, and then pitch it to publishers in volumes of maybe 200 pages, and if they dont bite, then upload them online and then later publish them yourself
This is what I'm going to do. But first I'm going to make some one-shots to gain an audience.

>>7805534
back of the book could be a little more elaborate, elevator pitches are really short (think 30 seconds).

>>7805769
Then it should probably be reserved only for talking to publishing companies/editors in email or meetings. I shouldn't worry about it in-terms of conventions or handing out an actual work.

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https://www.mycomics.de/comic-pages/14460-aelien-kapitel-2.html#page/1/mode/2up

managed to post over 100 pages of my autobio comic now

will translate it into english

still have fond memories of the comments in the thread i made over 2 years ago:
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/6709911

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>>7805790

pages i have done today

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>>7805079
Repost of the collab announcement and where it's at right now in case anyone still wants to join. but I think we're one or two away from being done.

We add our protagonists or mascot characters to a 2 page spread. (with no particular theme in order to keep things simple.)

This image is uncropped so you can create-new-from-clipboard and draw over it. I will edit together the final image. I will not add joke additions.

I added Dana on to the last image before she started being edited in since we ended up with two of her. I also cropped the image a bit so it's not off center. I may give it a basic background after it's finished.

I have no other updates. I've just been doing bare minimum commissions so I can justify playing Runescape all day.

>>7805327
>dead in the west
Really? How, when and why did it fall? Have people realized that the majority is just not that good?
>I'm going to draw colored webcomics featuring cute animals in relatable situations now.
I encourage this!
>>7805447
what? What am i even supposed to be looking at here?

When I watch people on stream make manga it’s like how the hell did they get so good drawing so many different things. Gods.

>>7805821
They just draw.

>>7805821
it blows my mind too. But sometimes they also take their time and draw reaaalllly slowly and I just don't have the patience for that.

>>7805707
Since May 2020.
Here's the first thread.
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/4543955

>>7805478
That is so cynical it just makes me sad.
What's even worse is you can go to /a/ and see him be proven right. People identify with characters to the point where authors have to avoid any interesting narrative or thematic avenues, or do so carefully.

I don't think I want to make a comic, I think I just want to create whatever I'm involved in at the current moment. I read a comic and go "damn this is so cool I want to make something cool". I don't really have a story I want to tell, y'know?

>>7806160
why are you here?

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Since major publishers are now welcoming fully AI generated manga one shots, is there any reason to believe 99% of manga in 5 years will all just be generated

>>7806422
lol theyre saying the only good part was the "art" but the story sucked, as usual. AI might be a threat if somebody with an iq over 90, and a bone of creativity actually used it to its potential, and covered up its weaknesses in other ways, but it seems no real creatives wanna use AI

>>7805709
That's what most people see. If you want to make artistic works you will have to accept getting to a lesser known publisher and not raking in money. Doing this work for the money is the most foolish thing you can possibly do.

>>7806429
the fact that the editors couldnt even tell it was AI is the biggest issue here and that they refer to it as good drawing

>>7806422
with the majority of consumers being teens who won't give a shit as long as the image is consumable, you don't need to wonder why publishers dont give a shit anymore

>>7806452
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsswczi4YZQ

Good thing it won first place so it even gets VAs to read it

>>7806458
yeah i can't believe the mango with coombait won
no way, anon

>>7806452
I have an upcoming convention and you have no idea how comforting this is to me. I actually stand a chance.

>>7806460
i wish coombait was enough to make it

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>>7806422
>>7806458
I give up.

>>7806462
I've been reading the comments on that vid
everyone is bashing it
too bad teens don't give a shit a will just nut to thumbnail
>>7806461
And when everyone stands a chance, no one does

>>7806467
>7806467
no need to give up just use AI and contribute to the downfall altogether. Dont forget to add coombait like that one anon who seems to think its all you need

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Just need to find the original panel this has been ripped off

>>7806471
Most Japanese publishers not being hyper focused on art is a good thing for me and many others. I am not concerned about the industry I just take good news whenever I can.

>>7806478
I dont even think art is going to be relevant in a year or two when everyone switches to generating the art anyway. Most successful people will probably just fully automate the story and art and we'll see publishing times shorten from weekly down to a couple days

ai is literally merde d'artiste but unironically

the fact that one piss is still the number 1 should tell you about the taste of the consumers and how you can shovel ai generated feces down their throats and they will gobble it up like rice

>>7806488
at this point isnt it better to just do the least amount of work and shove it down the average consumer's throat. You might as well fuck over everyone you can because they're the reason we've devolved so far

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>>7806422
>>7806458
See? I told you that AI is the future.
People who reject AI will end up the same fate as those who rejected the computer and the internet.
By 2030, 90% of manga will be AI generated.
With the power of AI, chapters will be produced daily instead of weekly.
AI will produce 90% more manga for readers to consume, and you will be happy with it.

>>7806482
Focus on the people/publishers who care about the human intent and narrative cohesion or be left behind. The distinction between soul and soulless has never been easier and there are more people who care for the former than ever before.

>>7806495
>By 2030, 90% of manga will be AI generated.
>With the power of AI, chapters will be produced daily instead of weekly.

More like 2027, and prob a 3 day cycle instead of weekly, but yeah. 99% of all manga, anime, and shows alike will be AI generated. It's what happens when 99% of consumers are the way they are and that we live in end stage capitalistic times transitioning to tech-feudalism

>>7806497
How do you still have faith in people at this point. Sometimes I feel like im losing my mind seeing how everything I love is devolving and the people are actively trying to force it down my throat.

>>7806495
Regarding virtual pachinko machine i take the same stance as crypto:
Still ain't gonna use it and it shouldn't be a problem or an issue to you. Stop trying to force it down other's throats.

>>7806502
I have faith that the human spirit is indomitable and inherently attractive enough to sustain something beautiful if you truly care. There are millions of reasons to be depressed in this world but living in this world is my choice and I want to use it to my fullest.

>>7806200
kek nice job

>>7806422
why are people scrambling to remove humans out of storytelling? This reminds me of that robot elon must designed or whatever that can be a bartender, it just completely misses the point of what a bartender is. Human beings read manga because they're made by human beings, why would anyone listen to a story shit out by a machine? It just makes no sense.
Its been long enough that I can confidently say that AI is not a tool for people who lack art skills but have everything else needed to make a comic. Art skills are not stats in a video game that you can level up independently and can boost by equipping AI. Your drive and motivation is the bottleneck and if you even consider using AI to ease the load, you already don't have enough drive to do it.
The most I can see AI being used is for backgrounds like trees, buildings, and rocks. That's no worse than scanning real photos anyways, but I still expect serialized professional works to put in more effort to inject their personal STYLE into it.

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most people, publishers included, genuinely believe drawing is magic hence why they are so keen on removing the humans from the equation

>>7806562
I think you're overestimating humans. Most people do not care about the art or story as long as it's good to them. It does not matter that it was generated or made through automated AI. That's why we're in this mess in the first place

>>7806562
AI was born out of malice. It was made by seething, talent-less pajeets who would rather just take an automated shortcut than to actually learn a skill. It really does nothing but take the act of creating something--the decisions that an artist makes in design, story, paneling, placement, setting, writing, etc--are just thrown out. Instead of something thoughtful that is meant to give you a glimpse into someone's mind, or for the author to view the world, abstract that view into a story, and then give that back to the world, its just reducing story telling into nothing more than a soulless product that comes off of an assembly line.

I just don't have any idea how anyone could be happy generating something with AI. The creating and decision making is what even draws me to stories and want to make them in the first place. It isn't supposed to be easy, or for every one to do, that's what makes it special.

At any rate, I still don't think the people who think it is just going to be easy as shit and all they have to do is wait a few more years to just generate everything any anything they want are really going to go anywhere. The market/internet/whatever is going to be flooded with low effort slop that all looks the same, reads the same, and has no real soul behind it. It'll probably be a good enough looking product, but no one will buy or consume it anyway because there will be a billion other low-effort AI generated comics/manga/stories/whatever, so it'll just dilute the pool down to nothing. People will probably think it is fun for a few years for the novelty, but then they'll get bored and the demand for actual, human artists and stories will surge again. Especially since we all know it won't be little nobodies on the internet who will explode with their AI generated story, it'll be big corpos who already have money behind them who will be the only ones pushing THEIR AI-generated slop who will be the only ones going anywhere with it.

>>7806570
people might noy care but they're not gonna pay to watch/read ai crap. The people in power will have to eradicate real stories first if they want AI to be a viable business model.

>>7806582
Unfortunately the advent of AI and the monetary value it brings means government regulation won't be a thing. As such, companies will use whatever is possible for the cheapest/fastest quality which means at some point it'll be endless amounts of content through AI that floods and beats out the regular stuff. That's the reality when we live in a capitalistic hell hole.

>>7806200
>picks the most popular animes

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>>7806579
I didnt read all of that. But oddly enough AI does have a positive use. And that's translating mangas.

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>>7806604
See??

speaking of AI, the only good use I can think of is generative fill, but I have cracked Photoshop and I cant manage to get a plug in into that

>>7806604
>>7806605
Hire a translator. That's just another job taken away from humans. I doubt that translation is 100% accurate.

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>>7806747
>That's just another job taken away from humans.
In the next five years, AI and robot will take over our jobs. Everyone will have nothing and be happy.

>>7806200
Nice.

>>7806764
Only for those who embrace it.
If that ever happens i'm moving away into a forest village.
There we will be safe.

>>7806584
>advent of AI and the monetary value it brings
Which is nothing. AI hasn't made a dime, it's a huge tax grift bubble and it's already deflating according to the numbers. The grifters at Nvidia are desperately trying to pump it back up, but the real money already sees the con and is backing out. Now it's just a matter of how much they can loot your government's treasury until it pops.

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The only thing AI achieved now and will achieve more in the future is spam that gets tiring and obnoxious after 2 minutes to anyone with above indian IQ.

>>7806429
but anyone with an iq over 90 wouldn't waste their time fiddling with AI when they can just as easily just draw.

ITT: doombots

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Too tired to draw so I thought I'd do a "chart" for the characters' height.

>>7807222
Overkill on the hatching amigo. You could get away with a lot less lines

>>7807236
Yes. I realized that halfway through lol. It was a pain.

>>7807222

Very cool, what a bunch of manlets though not even 6 feet tall. You should double the height of that cat girl btw

>>7807244
I wanted to make her smaller actually (love tiny petite girls), but if I did that she would look really silly as a soldier.

>>7807255
Well it could, fighting with guns strength theoretically doesnt matter as much. Thered be advantages if shes like 4 feet tall, and thats also cute. Realistically probably doesnt make sense, what i said before is that retarded trope “im faster than this super strong guy, i can take him” but if shes a short cat girl with some weaponry, you could make it work

>>7806475
>>7806458
this is AI? how can you guys even tell? it looks drawn

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Do you guys think adding color makes a comic more accessible to the wider audience. I’ve been experimenting coloring like in the Long Halloween, and it takes like 20 minutes to get a page done with simple coordinated coloring.

Ive seen people online say they drop comics/manga if they arent in color, and ive had people see my work and ask when im gonna finish it (amd them say you havent added the color), are these people even the audience though?

I know color comics are much more expensive too, so if i ever wanted to print my comic, itd be harder.

>>7807274
You mean the agile rat archetype, right? I thought of that. But since the story is meant to be more grounded I thought it would be better not to. She's the technician of the team too so she will be the one carrying extra equipment. She needs to be able to endure her job.

>>7807278
Most people expect color when they see comics, especially with webtoons being a phenomena. You can probably get away with being fairly minimalist though.

>>7807277
its that cookie cutter AI default style when you look at it. You can even find it on the website and look through the pages.

>>7807285
>cookie cutter AI default style
It isn't though, it looks like normal manga with stylized manga faces.

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>>7807283
Yeah most webcomics are color. Real printed Manga are cheaper to print as black and white right?
You could probably make a monochrome comic and no one would care, if it's good.

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>>7806747
I was mainly thinking about for my own personal use. There are lots of the untranslated manga that I can easily grok now. Yeah the translator is Engrishy.

>>7807311
Is color a good crutch for bad art? My opening arts bad, although its getting better now

>>7807321
If your color is good, it can help
Color is harder to get right than lines though, and many times they work against each other.

>>7806562
>Human beings read manga because they're made by human beings, why would anyone listen to a story shit out by a machine?
There is a subset of slop that has little to do with storytelling. The "story" is just a way to connect the dots between coomer bait and flashy visuals. Like it or not, this stuff sells very well, and you need minimum human input to make it.

What's more important for slop media like this is the art and animation, both of which AI will make trivial to do in the future. A skilled artist using AI will be able to do the work of several artists in the future, in half the time. Anime boobs flopping around seductively, super cool explosions and light effects, cute girls everywhere. This is what AI can facilitate, you can still have good stories. It's just we're in the beginning stages where the tools aren't quite there for the layman to use yet, so you'll see mostly experimental slop.

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>>7807301
Im not trying to be mean but if you cant see it you're probably just not at an intermediate level. Its very obvious

>>7807345
Biggest tell for me here is really just the huge difference between the closeups and the long shots. The former look fine at a glance but the latter are very obviously just posed 3D models with some shoddy drawing over the top. Same with the little infographic bit in the 2nd last panel.

>>7807345
nta but some of it looks convincing, but that last panel is the most AI head and face Ive ever seen

>>7807353
For some reason a lot of people who don't draw tend to like that default AI style a lot, or maybe they just cant tell it looks off to someone with trained eyes. Either way we'll see the majority of manga published in 2-3 years all be AI generated. Coomer type action sells and it's easily replicable story and art wise from any model nowadays.

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>>7807345
Yea but if I can't see it I guarantee 90% of people won't either. You can post this on social media and claim you drew it, no one would bat an eye. When people think AI art, they think more like this.

But I hope these tools progress until everyone can use it easily to create what they want. The manga looks nice, and this is still just the beginning of the tech. In 5-10 years, it'd probably be impossible to tell.

>>7807345
That may be AI but it has clearly been polished and finished up by a real artist. It doesn't look bad at all.

>>7807345
>>7806422
There's no difference between doing stuff like this and what Gantz did with 3d models, and Gantz was very successful. The future is here, adapt or get left behind.

>>7807358
Both images fall under that default style of AI art so I have no idea why you think the first one is hard to detect. But you're not wrong either, and it'll be under 5 years before anyone can just spit out one shots in an instant not 5-10

>>7807359
It has definitely not been polished up by a real artist. Have any of you actually went through the pages at all or is the level of drawing this low on this board now?

>>7807360
I don't even disagree, if anything this is probably a good thing considering how terrible most of the people in this thread alone are that don't even have the eyes to tell what is AI or not at this point

>>7807366
>It has definitely not been polished up by a real artist.
The sfx lines and little flashback art in:
>>7807345
definitely looks polished by an artist, I can't imagine AI spitting it out like that. The artist probably used AI to gen most character art based on models, then drew over it.

>>7807369
Apparently adding the SFX effects from csp assets and drawing stick figure equivalents is the mark of a real skilled artist now. I'm talking about actual polished webtoons that have artists using AI in tandem and fixing up the mistakes so its unnoticeable. How is the bar this low now

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Trying a more cute style

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>>7807374
>How is the bar this low now
The bar is where the market dictates. AI manga just won a cash prize contest. AI manga has won previous manga+ monthly competitions. People photobash AI art for commissions and make good money doing it. Multi million dollar corporations use AI and people still buy their products. For all the decrying of AI from the public, there's little backlash and zero repercussions.

The people who want to believe there'll be some saving hand that raises non-AI artists above those that use AI, are naive. No one is coming to save us. Not the bubble, not the celebrities that disavow AI, no one. The market has already decided that if you use AI skillfully, people won't notice nor care. Expect this to be the norm from now on.

>>7807419
>>7807345
I really hate this AI shit, but if Im bring completely logical, it could be used as an assistant in the future. Managaks as we know usually have 2-3 assistants working backgrounds, VFX and patterns (the patterns on Golden Wind characters were drawn by Arakis assistants). AI could I guess be used as an assistant for skilled artists.

We could theoretically keep up with mangakas using AI

>>7807425
I'd sooner pay some indonesian or jeet slave labor wages to be an assistant before I used AI for my BG

>>7807428
And they'll be using AI. Sucker

>>7807413
>oi and altarusia anon going more anime while I'm still here drawing cartoons
Maybe it's time for a change

>>7807432
I wonder how many of these responses are just 1 guy. Online i see nothing but hate for AI.

Conventions i go to ban AI. People who are into manga and comics hate AI, and series need manga and comic fans to be fans of it, before it can reach the tasteless normie audience

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>>7807445
"Well fellow anon, AI might be bad for art, but REALLY it's the people who complain about AI, those are just as bad, huh?"

>>7807445
Yes yes we all hate AI. And yet it still continues to make money for the people that use it. Companies still suffer no repercussions and keep doing it, implying that it's profitable. People STILL get away with the most obvious photobashed AI commission pieces. So really, what is the online hate even worth?

You can make all the anti-AI posts and upvotes you want, but people are going to look at what works financially. And if AI manga can win contests, you can bet there'll only be more from now on. And how many of us can actually compete with >>7807345
in terms of art? This guy can generate and photobash pages like this in probably an hour, meanwhile for amateur artist it could take multiple days. The math doesn't math for anyone trying to make this a career, and AI will soon take over unless there are laws holding it back.

>>7807356
>For some reason a lot of people who don't draw tend to like that default AI style a lot
AI is trained on the most popular works, how the fuck could they not like it?
However, the very idea of AI is offputting to most people even when they cannot tell from sight. Which is why so many shills are now pushing to remove AI tags from storefronts, as it hurts their revenue when the customers are informed.

>>7807468
Most people cannot tell from taste what foods are GMO or 3D printed, however the labels have been proven to effect sales and perception. Nobody wants artificial slop in any form except the kikes selling it.

It is losing billions of dollars yet it keeps being pushed.
Every layman is using it to generate stuff for free and that is the only reason why it still persists now.

I do wonder what the endgame is.
Is it billionaires being delusional that they believe they're going to create a sentient machine when not even a great majority of people are?
Image generation can be used to manipulate public opinions and shit, but the great majority of practical application with AI beyond minor tasks that were already automated, have been a complete and utter failure.

You can very well assume that all the AI generated comics hype will instantly die down once big tech companies will start demanding money, which then companies and people will try to run it locally with their own GPUs and Dataservers but will quickly figure out that the maintenance cost isn't even worth the output alone.

Ngl, one has to be either an investor that is going to pull out once he might turn a profit or completely fucking retarded to still believe AI has a future.

>>7807479
AI, audio and video generation requires massive testing and training to get to an acceptable level, more than any agency or company can do on their own. "Releasing" it to the public gets the entire world to become the QA workers, for free or even being paid BY them for the privilege.

It is not going to make money, and is not planned to. It is being paid for by tax dollars almost exclusively, as all these companies like Intel and Nvidia are fronts for government agencies, notably 5 Eyes.

Coincidentally, these are the people with the most interest in creating passable fake media, as that's what they already do, with fake terror attacks, fake shootings, fake serial killers, etc. It keeps their agencies in business by keeping fear high among the public and justifying ever-increasing budgets and expansions. Make-work with fake-work, collect the check.

However, hiring actors, scriptwriters, directors and then paying all the hush money to their organizations eats away those budgets. AI could cut all of them out and allow Intelligence agencies to simply magic up some fake news story, video, interviews, entire documentary series about it in hours, with no pesky civilians or counter-spooks stepping onto the set to ruin their shot or ask inconvenient questions.

Once they have the tech at an acceptable level to create passable fake news and all it needs is some polishing, then you will see the laws and regulations come down hard, fast, and from every government all at once. Just like you're seeing with internet ID laws now. They will take it away from you and lock it down after you are finished beta testing it for them. They will create some purposely obvious fake video of the President doing something insane, then they will out it as an AI creation themselves as the excuse for the new regulation and restrictions, then they will start flooding you with their top-notch fakes that everyone will accept as real thanks to the previous action.

>>7807311
>You could probably make a monochrome comic and no one would care, if it's good.
People would care but depending on your audience it won't matter. It's strictly dependent on what your target demographics care about. Heavy colors wouldn't go well with what I'm donig nor is it something really asked for.

speaking of AI

I did a little video project like 3 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5sVfdr35w

That's it, I'm going to make slop AI comics featuring cute girls. If we're going to be fed slop in the sloppening, at least let it be locally sourced American slop. Does anyone have good youtube tutorials on using civit.ai to generate people from different perspectives, particularly heads?

>>7807483
>>7807479
damn, it's joever for us isn't it. The billionaires won, they really can do whatever the fuck they want in a few decades. Forget oligarchy, they'll be even more powerful than pharaohs.

ban this nigger faggot jeet ai shill already goddam

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>>7807526
>>7807539
ok yeah this whole threads been hijacked by one autistic german man with an obsession for killing women and covering them in poop and piss.

spiritually indian

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>>7807553
lmao wtf

>>7807553
so is that an example of human art? is this some kind of ironic joke?

>>7807553
I like our schizo kraut friend. He's been here on and off for years.
I'll take him over our new tripfag.

>>7807413
Succeeds in looking cute.

>>7807553
looks like the kind of art psycho killers make in artsy horror movies

>>7807558

I find it funny, but the the art class just stared blankly

>>7807562
schizo is a lame descriptor in the art world

>>7807606

to make it clear - midjourney at that point did not allow killing and poop. thats why i drew what i did. i dont draw poop and killing women in my freetime.

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>>7806422
Thank God I focus more on refining my storytelling skill and spend my time learning AI more than wasting my time to learn to draw.
With AI you can create page like this in less than an hour instead of wasting 8 to 10 hours drawing.
Manga just need to be interesting after all.
Just like how manga went from traditionally drawn to digitally drawn, this time is the transition to AI drawn.
AI will be the future.

>>7807663
shitloads of manga are still drawn in analog though

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>>7807663
With AI, you can make a weekly manga in just 10 minutes.
https://x.com/yachimat_manga/status/1993809381406760967
With this, publishers can save cost of hiring expensive artists while increasing the amount of their products for consumers to enjoy.
Everyone wins.
Learn AI now or you guys will end up to be starving artists eating cockroaches in 3x3 lodging.

fuck off and die mikuturd

>>7807667
except publishers already don't "hire expensive artists", they're just paying someone who makes something that can sell for the rights to publish the thing they make in their publication. authors are not employees, and publishers generally never cared how the authors actually made the thing. that's none of their business.
>Learn AI now or you guys will end up to be starving artists eating cockroaches in 3x3 lodging
except at the end of the day what matters is the ability to make something that can sell. how you make it is not the important part. publications aren't going to suddenly switch to being daily anyway, there's no way the rest of the production line (eg the editorial side, the printing side, the distribution side) can keep up even if you can technically create a chapter in just a few hours. in short, dream on buddy.

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>>7806422
Looks more to me like people aren't really having it.

>>7807675
People felt the same way when computer and internet were invented. Look at them now. Technology validates people, not the opposite. Those who oppose it will just go extinct and society won't bat an eye.

>>7807675
Yeah the publishers can 'welcome' it all they want, they are also in on the ruling class cartel trying to replace us after all, but if real people stop buying their books they'll change their tune.

>>7807678
>People felt the same way when computer and internet were invented
proofs?

>>7807678
Nah, youre the one whos going to be out of a job Sandeep. The well is drying up, the techbros will abandon ship and its back to the shitting street for you lol. Better find a train to stand in front of soon benchod

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>>7807679
Don't worry, give it 2 more years, AI will become so advanced that average short attention span consumers can't tell them apart anymore and society will begin to accept AI generated manga whether we like it or not.

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>>7807681

>>7807675
In the end, if they want to give out money to ai slop, it will only bite them in the ass since they will basically be admitting that no matter what artists do, they will lose to the most mediocre slop possible and this will also mean less real talent joining or publishing their works.
No one but aijeets will join to get a quick buck and no one will buy books no matter how hard they market it.
And when they realize it, by then, any good will publishers had will have evaporated into nothingness that they will never be able to recover.

Giving access to image generation to any low iq baboon was the worst mistake this species could have ever made.

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so i tried nana banana pro to reinterpret my watercolor messy stuff into "clean and professional (my prompt) stuff.

pic related

>>7807685
>Daily Mail
Epic.

>>7807678
That's not even close to the same thing. I said in previous posts that I'm sure in a few years AI will maybe be at the top of its game for a couple years as a fad or novelty.

Then people will get bored of it, because not just high-tech, but "highest tech" gets dumped after a while. Streaming was pretty much the end game after VHS->DVD->Blu ray, but the uniqueness has worn off because big corpos plundered all they could with how greedy they are, and it drove people back to wanting DVD collections. Same thing with how music evolved to streaming, but now people have gone back to physical media even back to freaking vinyl.

If AI achieves anything, I think people will get so bored of it that there will be a renaissance of wanting hand-drawn, traditional, old-school art that actually has flaws, character, and a personal voice to it. Work that people can physically see and touch, and see the artist's signature style and method of creating things.

>>7807694
AI has replaced illustrators, now they are coming for mangaka.
I am glad I have given up on my dream to go to Japan and become a mangaka. Now, I just grow my own food and trade crypto.

>>7807694
i honestly prefer your drawings, they've got substance. esp the monochrome one

>>7807694
>>7807714
shame, we've got a german schizo, with a fetish for shitting and pissing on woman samefagging the whole thread >>7807553

>>7807694
>nana banana pro
wtf is nana banana and why are there a dozen different AI image generators? what's the point of so many different ones?

all this desperate ai shilling is unironically motivating me to draw.

>>7807675
>people aren't really having it.
Nothing will happen because they can't prove anything. AI photobashers always have plausible deniability when they can just say "it's heavily referenced" or "I drew on top of the reference".

AI retards dont realize that every single person in mmg is drawing manga because they want to, not because they think its an easy way to make money. It ISN'T an easy way to make money and never was in the west. The most realistic possibility is that you get famous or at least appreciated for your indie manga/comic.

The fags constantly posting about AI are trying to use money as an argument, AI artists will make money making AI comics. Well, its clear that they won't after these last few years with zero (0) AI generated works being considered a success.

So they change their tune, "I can still make good manga with it, and I'll be famous or at least appreciated just like you guys" no the fuck you won't. Nobody cares about ai mangas individually, all hype surroudning it is due to the marvel and interest in a new technology, at the end of the day nobody is going to READ them. Nobody is going to wonder what happens next in an AI manga. Nobody is going to like it.

So what are you left with? Your own personal fun in creating the manga. If you have fun generating AI Manga then that's the best you can hope for, but you need to accept that nobody will ever like it. And that's going to be painful considering AI prompters cannot handle drawing because they couldn't deal with being bad at art and ignored.

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>>7807675
Manga just have to be interesting.
If it's interesting, of course it'll get published.

>>7807733
>zero (0) AI generated works being considered a success.
This guy just photobashed AI and won a cash contest
>>7806422
And what about a few years from now when the tech is super advanced to the point you can't even tell, and people who are stronger writers start to use it?
The real issue aren't obvious slop generators, but the skilled users who'll create an avalanche of comics that most normies won't even be able to tell is AI.

I respect the dedication to the bit

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>>7807739
>And what about a few years from now when the tech is super advanced to the point you can't even tell
Yeah what about in the future year of 2002 when we will all have flying cars and food replicators and are playing in awesome VR holodecks instead of primitive analog consoles

Because technology is just a linear exponential advancement, right? :) It will never stall out, or lose interest, or hit the wall of sheer computing physics, or just not be economically feasible anymore

>>7807743
>AI drawing tech improving a little bit is analagous to flying cars
Jesus christ you delusional copers are so desperate to maintain a safe space where AI fails that you can't even entertain the idea that it won't. In your head right now you're likely imagining me as some pro-AI shill, which is why it's impossible to get any real anti-AI traction going when brainlets like you keep trying to assure everyone everything will be fine if we just keep doing nothing like we're doing now. Fucking retard

>>7807739
Yeah that's the grift, ain't it?
>Give us money now because um in a few years it will be the biggest thing ever and it will magically make you a bunch of money even though it's earning nothing now except the hate of the general public
>Trust me!
That worked so well with the DotCom grift, Crypto, NFTs...
I'm old enough to remember the Enron shit. This is the exact same thing, probably involving the same people since the energy companies are in on it now too.
Back then it was a national scandal to be such a lying grifter, now in the Indian Poo Age it's par for course.

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>>7807749
Here you go, exact same fucking thing.
Zero outside money coming in, just trading the same money between different accounts and posting it as profit to scam investors on "future" earnings. It will be the same result, just much larger.

>>7807760
I'm starting to think this "AI is a bubble" headline was put out by the billionaires themselves to make people complacent, all while they meet with politicians to iron out laws giving them the keys to the new technocracy.

There are a few major differences between Enron and AI.
1. AI actually has a product that is being increasingly adopted by many different industries, and it's turned a profit for them which is why they keep doing it.
2. The winner of the AI corp power struggle will have the funds of the US government, including the pentagon which has made drone AI a priority in research.

So what does this chart even mean to you? That you think AI companies will disappear in a few years? That this will pass like a bad dream and things will go back to the way they were before AI?

>>7807760
the difference this time is they had several years to perfect the formula and have lots and lots of backup plans, it wont collapse for them but everything will go to shit for us.

Nobody said AI is useless for all use cases you nincompoops. It’s just not your key to becoming a rich, famous, and beloved artist. You guys don’t belong on a drawing board. You belong on a board for hacker-scammers such as yourselves. But we all know you’re here for unidirectional propaganda not drawing, anyway

>>7807773
It will have to go back, because putting real people out of work while also looting their treasuries will result in a collapse

Tell me, where will the government get funds to pay for AI when AI eliminates the majority of their tax base?
Who will these companies sell their products to when the majority of the customer base is out of work thanks to AI and they can get no welfare bux for the same reason above?

It has to go back, either willingly or by force. This entirety of civilization exists solely to give Humans something to do and a means to live, AI's endgame logically takes away both, so AI will logically have to disappear or be relegated to a niche corner, because you're not going to make 8 billion people disappear instead.

The people running this scam know this, which is why it is a short term grift. Too bad it will have lasting if not irreversible consequences for the global economy, environment and standards of living.

>>7807774
You're only half right, as they did not lose back then either. Madoff never went to prison, the scammers rode off on golden parachutes.

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>>7807685
When the infrastructure all collapses and civilization resets due to a nuclear holocaust it really will just be a fad in the view of human history.

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>>7807278
In my experience I got more positive feedback and engagement with my only colored test comic than my previous black and white ones. Too bad I lost the interest on it.

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It is over for manga assistants. My prompt using Nano Banana Pro:
>Turn this into a black and white manga background. Make sure you keep the lines clean and distinct. Add shadows by using screentones.
Indie mangaka might start being able to keep up with professionals.

>>7807904
>It is ove
Pajeet, fuck off.

>>7807904
black and white filters have existed for years and you dont need to pay google for it

>>7807937
If you have ever done it you would know it doesn't look that good out of the gate and needs a lot of touchups which take up valuable time.

>>7807943
lol your time is not valuable, nobody is paying you.

>>7807955
All time is valuable because it is one of the only things we can't buy.

>>7807957
Correct. So why are you wasting it being a massive doomer?

Why do any of you even care about this when even with the ability to gen high quality images you're never even going to be successful anyway. Do people think it's as simple to reach consistent success making manga let alone having the means to actually be published competing with actual monsters who don't need it, monsters who can do both, and people who can effectively leverage AI because they understand what's necessary even without drawing? Like it's actually amazing to see the dissonance but then again there were a swathe of folks who couldn't even tell the winning manga was genned in the first place

Just remember if it were as bad as they want you to believe, they wouldn't need to spend time and money on shills trying this hard to make you believe it.

>>7807663
I guarantee you that if you couldn't even handle the bare minimum of trying to draw your own panels, no matter how far the tech improves you'll never actually make it. This is like the equivalent of people who think brushes are all it takes to let them achieve that level of quality and skill

>>7807904
this is pretty cool, but my art is nowhere near that quality so if I draw figures on that scene, it will look out of place and I'll feel like a jackass.

>>7807974
Since the average consumer doesn't care, just img2img it or just plop your chars in. At this point I don't think the audience should be respected for how terrible the landscape has gotten. If anything they all deserve the lowest common denominator slop genned in a couple seconds

>>7807967
And who are you, faggot?

>>7807979
The same type of person like you who browses the board and will amount to nothing compared to the actual skilled humans over at /g

>>7807980
>The same type of person
Im not a faggot.

>>7807967
The appeal of using AI is to skip the frustration, pain, misery, sorrow of having to draw..
But it also takes away the joy of creating, so what are you left with? Nothing.

It'd feel so ass if I just used AI to generate the art for my story. The whole point is to draw this thing with my own two hands. I can actually look back on my older stuff and see how I've grown as an artist over the years. The development of my technical skills, style, taste and storytelling. With AI I'd see, what, how the models have changed over the years? There would be nothing gratifying at all about that. I'd never be able to fool myself into saying "I made this". The novelty of creating something "pretty looking" in an instant would go away pretty quickly, then I'd probably lose interest in drawing altogether. Yeah that's a pass for me

>>7807992
>frustration, pain, misery, sorrow of having to draw
Lol if you don't enjoy drawing, you are still never going to get anywhere even with AI. Sorry bud.

>>7807997
Thats why they're coming out with AI girlfriends that motivate you to work on your AI manga

>>7807995
Unfortunately, the speed is enough to probably make this the norm going forward for professionals, regardless of if they have the skills to draw it themselves

mangaka will be using AI and when their stories flop due to being boring, publishers will look for prodigies again instead of minimum viable artists.

>>7808001
Aww yeah we gonna go the Capeshit route full speed

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>>7807904
>It is over for manga assistants.
OK, im taking the bait.
Sci fi and fantasy do not work.
1 google photo is not enough to tell a story, and if you do it with a copyrighted photo, you can get easily fucked, anyway.
So the assistant has to grab a camera and take some photos. Or build scenes in 3d. Which is the biggest bulk of work anyway.
Different backgrounds, must be drawn in the same style, with the same amount of realism and abstraction, which ai cant do.
If you draw an action manga, you will have a lot of interaction between background and characters, destruction, special effects and so on.
Its one of those gamechangers, happend more than enough in the past. It takes a while and than even the normies can identify the slop. And no proper manga will use it without changing it.
Most popular manga at the moment do all have a distinct hand drawn style. No one abuses the older cheats, like photo filters and 3d. Some people use it to a degree, other dont use it at all.

The biggest shift in manga is still digital drawing. Some top mangas are still drawn by hand.
At the time, the meta is drawing by hand but digital. Is fast enough, very flexible and has still some soul.
So no its not over for assistants. People who can afford assistances will not fire them.
Indi mangaka relie heavily on crowd financing, and most people hate ai, so most of them will not use it or at least lie about it.
In the end the only people who will use it are scamers and gooners.

>>7808313
True. Its got no consistency, and I doubt its gonna learn consistency anytime soon. Tech always stagnates. Anyway the true manga fans hate AI

All this shit was 1 guy anyway, who kept responding with images in german.

Notice its stopped now its bed time in Germany

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>>7807222
You're missing the sunglasses I gave him last time we met on /beg, anon :-]

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>>7808313
Go back to your retirement, Hara, your golden age is long over.
By 2030, AI will get so good it will give capability for AI artists to outcompete 99% of human artists with better quantity, quality, and less time consumed art.
Get fucked, granpa.

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>>7808313
Pfft. The fact that it took 2 months for 1 guy to point out that an award winning manga is AI generated says a lot on how 99% of brain-rotted fish-length attention span tiktok generation consumers cannot be careless whether a manga is made by AI or not as long as they have more contents to consume.
It seems to me that Shueisha deliberately did this to test the water if they can serialize AI generated manga.
It's just the beginning.

>>7808458
>>7808441
please stop bothering this board, theres other places you can talk about this, please also understand that if everybody can just press a button and create a manga, why would anybody read yours?
Theoretically it would make it so easy, that there would be countless comics, that would drown each other out. Tech reaches a plateau, prompting is extremely easy to learn, so if the day comes that AI can replace drawing, everybody could easily switch over. for now though its not, so focus on something better.

You clearly are angry you arent good at drawing (even though you could be better if you tried), so why not pick up different hobbies, fitness, reading, an instrument

>>7808483
He's just background noise. A doomer crab trying to rile people up.

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>>7806422
If people call AI trash, then the other submissions are even worse trashes. AI for the win.

For anons from previous thread who debated about whether it's better to do multiple one-shots or just focus on one big long project, WSJ's editor recently touched upon this topic:
https://mond.how/ja/topics/sofk4otiko15wta/2qhne0cculthrd1
I often hear from editors that “characters are the most important thing when it comes to drawing interesting manga,” but when it comes to one-shots—the format that is absolutely indispensable for debut—I can’t help but feel there are severe limitations in making characters truly shine.

Part of it is probably because I myself tend to start thinking from the scenario/plot first rather than the characters.

I believe that in today’s era, characters who are loved gradually gain depth and empathy through a variety of episodes, and it’s through that process that both the character and the work itself come to be seen as “interesting.” But in a one-shot, where page count forces you to cut episodes, it’s inevitably hard to fully showcase a character’s appeal. Moreover, in stories where you want to make things fun through the interplay of multiple distinctive characters, the room for expression becomes even narrower.

As a result, what one-shots actually demand seems to be things like:
- the technical skill to hook the reader with something wild and attention-grabbing right from the start,
- a cleanly structured composition,
- the ability to still convey character charm even after cutting episodes,
- originality,
- and high artistic skill.

In a medium where “characters are the most important thing,” the one-shot format somehow feels fundamentally mismatched.

I really wanted to put into words some concrete hints for creating an award-winning, genuinely interesting one-shot, which is why I asked this question. I would be very grateful if you could answer.

>>7808510
Answer:
Brilliant analysis! I have no fundamental objections!

As I wrote in another Q&A response, when it comes to creating an interesting one-shot, it’s more cost-effective to focus on a catchy concept — whether it’s a last-minute twist or a strong “hook” right from the start — rather than on the characters themselves. In other words, if you purely pursue “making the most interesting one-shot possible,” you end up drifting away from what serialization trials and judging criteria for serialized creators actually value.

However, the average commercial magazine isn’t aiming for “the ultimate one-shot”; they’re aiming for “the ultimate serialized series.” The ideal for newcomer awards or trial one-shots for serialization is to show, within that single one-shot, the sprout of potential to draw characters that could carry a full serialization.

You’re absolutely right that “whether someone truly has the ability and appeal for serialization can only be judged by actually serializing,” but serialization carries enormous time and financial costs for the creator as well. If the ultimate goal is not just “to get a serialization” but “to make that serialization a hit,” then using one-shots to “test characters and concepts” and “gauge the creator’s abilities” is rationally cost-effective for the creator too. Even if you do get a serialization, if it doesn’t become a hit, just the time spent from creating the serialization name (storyboards) onward easily eats up 1–2 years.

>>7808511
Continue:
This might be a weird analogy, but it’s a bit like how pro baseball scouts don’t place the highest importance on “winning or losing” in high school baseball. Even后果 even if a player wins at high school level using a style that clearly wouldn’t work in the pros (serialization), their evaluation doesn’t go up that much. Of course, just winning games and making it to Koshien is still incredibly important for high school players, and it’s completely natural for creators to think “I just want to make my one-shot as interesting as humanly possible.”

It ultimately comes down to where you personally set your final goal — I’d encourage you to think about that for yourself.

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>>7807678
the internet was a fad in the way it was used in the first stages. It later developed as not just to serve some basic function
, but as infrastructure.

We have seen that LLM's still arent capable of even doing what they are advertised to do. have intelligence. AI is still just hallucination based on existing input. Not much different than a search engine that randomly applies boulean operations.

try it yourself. If you input a question, the subjects of those questions will always be referred to by how you typed it. it cannot extrapolate, generalise, simplify or use alternate terminology. LLM's are a dead end. an overhyped meme that shares many unfortunate parallels with NFTs and shitcoins

>>7808510
Interesting conversation. I think it's entirely possible to create compelling characters in one-shots too, albeit difficult. Honestly I don't know a series I enjoyed that I didn't know I would like the characters by the first chapter.

>>7807957
your time is only valuable if you can do useful things with it, which is why youre poor. AI generating "artists" will never be succesful aside from very little exceptions, why? because they'll be using tools that literally everyone can use without training and AI devs are making sure this happens

>>7808522
>>7808510
I suppose oneshots are more used for understanding flow and quickly introducing characters. problem is that you should probably always be thinking ahead, whereas in oneshots, theres no reveal that in 5 chapters, this girl is actually the sister of the main villain.

Honestly drawing scenes from your dream manga seems like maybe better practise, or atleast doing oneshots and hypothetical scenes

>>7808522
>Honestly I don't know a series I enjoyed that I didn't know I would like the characters by the first chapter.
I can think of one: Kokou no Hito. There isn't any characters I like initially, but beyond the timeskip a few volumes in the protagonist starts to develop into a character I really enjoyed.

>>7805327
Hahaha, yeah. That's the key to success. https://tapas.io/episode/3728863

>>7808483
>if everybody can just press a button and create a manga, why would anybody read yours?
Ideas guys have always been the same for decades. Can't actually do anything but they'll sure spend a lot of time trying to convince you that their idea is somehow 100% worth it and "totally NOT like the other ideas guys' ideas, my idea is the real deal uh huh, you gotta trust me bro, mine will be the one that magically makes it (so long as I dont have to do any work)."

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>>7808373
Haha Yes. That's a cool fit. Also, one day I bumped into a picture of a soldier that looked exactly like him and he was wearing sunglasses too.

>>7808674
With shades on, he gives me "main character from the Postal videogame but in combat gear" vibes.

>>7808544
Probably due to the change of writers in the first volumes. The series seemed to be going in a different direction before Shinichi Sakamoto took over.

https://group.kadokawa.co.jp/information/media-download/1891/b757f1be2812f169/PDF/
https://wordlessmanga.com/eng.html
New kadokawa world manga contest just launched. According to the press release, the previous winners of their no dialogue contest of last year are still working with editors in making one-shots/ aiming for serialization. Also they made a new "editorial section" dedicated for this. This coupled with kodansha prepping a global contest as well next year, it seems more and more jap publishers are pushing and preparing to find foreign talent next year.

>>7808542
>I suppose oneshots are more used for understanding flow and quickly introducing characters. problem is that you should probably always be thinking ahead
You just have everything solved in the first one-shot for chapters. You can't have any grand plans but you can have smaller schemes and deceptions that get figured out. Most grand plans end up falling flat even in serialized works anyways.

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made 60 euros today n*gga

>>7808795
Congratulations!

https://jywarren.github.io/bookletize.js/

i use this

stapling the comic books by myself is preferable in this economy

>>7807663
the dog shit speech bubbling is always an issue with ai comics. its always fucking ugly

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This is about a 40 page difference. Is the right any better or should I go back to drawing boxes?

>>7809086
Just keep drawing comics man. 40 pages is not really enough to measure progress. This shit takes years over hundreds of pages.

>>7809101
k, that's fair, I just don't want to stagnate.

>>7809086
Sorry anon, but it looks the same. If you really want to improve, you have to take your time on each page and be more conscious about how you draw things. Don't draw the same way you're used to. Think about how you want your art to look like, and try to think about what you could be doing differently to get there.

>>7809106
Stagnate is what, how well you can draw, or making comics?

>>7809111
Ok, thanks. I'm doing the vest I can really. I always try and draw the same scene from a different angle/try and push myself towards something more dynamic. I guess I just need to do it more.
>>7809112
Both. I'd hate to finish my comic and still be stuck at this begginer level.

>>7809117
It's a slow process. Other people won't be able to help you much. Most of the insights that will help you improve will come from yourself.

>>7809128
Sure, do you have any good youtube vids for rules on drawing faces, not anime faces but real ones? That's where I'm most insecure.

>>7809134
Not really. I don't do studies like that nowadays.

>>7809136
Cool, you've been useless.

>>7809086
getting better at drawing in general will definitely help you. Comics requires so many different kinds of drawings that you can master panel flow and still habe ugly drawings.
But I think you should only work on polishing every page if you find it fun, the better option is to improve your skills so that your 50% effort in the future looks better than your 100% effort now.

>>7807483
>Once they have the tech at an acceptable level to create passable fake news and all it needs is some polishing, then you will see the laws and regulations come down hard, fast, and from every government all at once. Just like you're seeing with internet ID laws now. They will take it away from you and lock it down after you are finished beta testing it for them. They will create some purposely obvious fake video of the President doing something insane, then they will out it as an AI creation themselves as the excuse for the new regulation and restrictions, then they will start flooding you with their top-notch fakes that everyone will accept as real thanks to the previous action.
the only non-brain dead comment in this thread. as it is now all this ai stuff is way too resource intensive to just let normies prompt porn. it'll be used to incite a war/color revolution in Iran, allow the US and Israel to overthrow the regime then once that's all tied up it will conveniently found that image gen video/photos were used leading up to the war and need to be heavily regulated for the private sector (but not the feds). screen cap this post.

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>>7809219
>the only non-brain dead comment in this thread. as it is now all this ai stuff is way too resource intensive to just let normies prompt porn. it'll be used to incite a war/color revolution in Iran, allow the US and Israel to overthrow the regime
Surely the masses would've learned to not fall for such propaganda after Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, r-right?

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>>7809290
No, man. Propaganda works.

>>7809294
I only hope the AI bubble collapses soon enough that it is prevented. The only hope is that most millennials and zoomers are extremely polarized into the far left or far right and don't really believe in conventional politics and are skeptical of media and are terminally online enough to recognize AI.

>>7807904
You could have just made the image in greyscale and convert it into screentone in a fraction of the time. Hell thats what most mangakas do the fuck you on about?

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Yeah Im just gonna wait for another thread to actually post my shit god fuck AI-fags

>>7809086
The faces are tighter, the bodies are a bit wonky but reasomable if you're making yaoi for the ladies. I'll say redraw your comic as black and white lineart only. The coloring hides the problems like wallpaper hides the cracks in the concrete of your room. There's still cracks in the wall.
Upon redrawing, try to pose every character a notch more exciting. A notch more dynamic. Cheesy JoJo poses are alright.

>>7809346
Redrawing all my pages would take a large amount of time that will most likely not be worth it due to my current skill level. I will take you're advice however. When I finish a sketch for a pose that I deemed dynamic, I should instead redraw it but exagerate parts and make it more interesting. I want to continue colouring because I want to improve my rendering skills.

>>7809413
>>7809346
Definitely don't redraw it lol

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Interiors suck ass, man. It's so tiring.

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Ignoring the fucked up hands, what do you think about her? She would be one of the protagonist in my story if I ever get around to making it. She's supposed to be a member of a sci-fi paramilitary org you could say. Does she look cute/interesting enough?
Also: AI-doomers are just looking for an excuse to give up. They were never going to make it.

>>7809718
Design is fine and obviously simplistic. it's more what you do with her that matters.

>>7809718
I think the overall design is interesting, but we need to see her emoting to figure out if she has "it"

>>7809718
I like her freckles.

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Crawling out of my suspiciously Runescape shaped hole to finish this page redraw.

>>7809626
At this point I'm almost tempted to say you should just go full 3d model and trace over them as needed if you're gionna be returning to these interiors for your characters time and again.

>>7809985
Idk how to 3d model... Also, I don't think drawing the actual scenes in these places will be hard. It will only be a few panels with not much of the background showing. The hardest part is creating it all from zero. Once you turn the idea into something you can actually see and use as reference I think it gets easier to work with it. Or maybe not... I will see what happens.

>>7805079
How do I start a local (also not in USA) publishing company?
Let me explain.
I could easily get one of those expensive eco-tank printers so the printing costs are like nothing, but I know nothing about setting pages together into a comic/manga book.
People talk a lot about licensing but I was thinking about indie comic artists who are not tied to any publisher.
I could reliably print a small volume cheaply and sell them on the local market. If they don't sell, the loss is near-none.(and it would be fun to try)
The problem is how the hell do I connect the pages and the cover/back-cover together?

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Hows the coloring look?

after doing >>7797369 i've been thinking about coloring my whole comic in basic tones, because i dont think my art, especially at the start of my comic, is good enough to get people interested.

I've got 75 monochrome pages right now and another 6 more until im done the first chapter, so if i wanna color it, ill have to learn color theory.

picrel took half an hour, so it wouldnt be much of a time sync if i did it regularly

looking at it now, im definitely gonna recolor it with more coherent tones.

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fucked up the link, but i meant this one

>>7810368
what country are you from?

>>7810368

>>7808800

get a large stapler

>>7808510
the way I see it a one shots real benefit is if you can go all the way. can you write a COMPLETE story? there's lots of character driven stories (not just manga) which fizzle out or can't stick the landing and are forgotten. not to say characters aren't important, but if all your manga is is cool looking characters standing around it won't last. that's why the long ultra epic is a mistake for beginners- after a couple chaprers what's really going on? look at game of thrones- really great characters, lots of chapters, had the entire world hooked. and no one really talks about it unless it's to complain about the ending or wonder where the next book is.

>>7810490
>and no one really talks about it unless it's to complain about the ending or wonder where the next book is.
That has to do with more of the fact that the ending is the most important part of any story and is written first regardless in serialized projects in-case stuff gets cancelled. Also, completely different audiences. If stuff like Dragon Ball or Bleach were given to fantasy readers or even their target audiences they would be remembered in infamy over their final parts.

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>>7810506
So the thing about this comic I did is that I'm trying to figure out just how much and how little I can get away with. How much energy I have to give to make it interesting enough for people to actually stop, look at, and continue to read and not a crumb more.

The truth is there just isn't enough time in the day to put your best effort into every page and actually progress the story in a reasonable time frame.

Another example of an attempt I made trying to keep it minimal.

Ultimately without the inking I feel the first one I posted just looks like doodle slop

>>7810460
Poland. Particularly where I live there is nothing of that industry and even the local online second-hand market only holds one instance of one comic book that is basically a comic adaptation of a book for children.(more of that probably in school libraries around but you get the point)
No comic/manga stores, no publishers, no resell market.
I have the occasion to do something fun and make money off of it.
>>7810463
Wait, just that? Are you telling me that entire manga and comic industry operates on staplers for this?
That's gonna be easy then. Thanks.

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>>7810397
if you wanna colour your comic, colour your comic, its not gonna make it more appealing or cover up the issues you have noticed with your art.

from my perspective your stuff is fine and you can obviously see your own errors, I think you just suffer from some irregularities in line width and maybe could benefit from more considered hatching, it'll make make everything way more coherent. take your time with hatching; it makes and breaks the line art.

I'm watch videos on people making manga and 99% of it is them dropping arcane knowledge like "your character needs a goal". And when I go to their channel to see their comic they're working on, I can't find anything. I'm sticking to japanese videos from now on.

>>7810097
>Idk how to 3d model...
Remember, whatever software you use you are using, you are not going to model a realistic human or a toothbrush out of 30000 triangles, you will just put some basic boxes inside a bigger box. Even in your case it's just a few more boxes on top of some tilted boxes. You don't need actual textures or details in your 3D model because you can just add them later in your comic. Oh, and that fire extinguisher? I bet there's already a free model of a fire extinguisher you can download and add into your scene.

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>>7810687
one of my personal faves

>>7810695
Also your character doesn't need a goal at all, as evidenced by tons of isekai garbage or by slice of life series.

>>7810664
>Poland
Poland has one of more robust comic publishing scenes in the whole Europe, you know. Doesn't hold a candle to powerhouses like France but is still miles ahead than many other countries. I'd strongly suggest just trying to strike a deal with one of the existing publishers instead, *especially* when you can provide the funds for the initiative. They already have (some of) the know-how and connections, however meagre they may be compared to Japanese or American endeavors.

>>7810490
A lot of one-shots aren't aiming to have a satisfying conclusion either though. So many one-shots are just a very brief presentation of an idea and that's it. "Wouldn't it be weird/scary/cool to x was y" and so on.

finished with the writing of a oneshot im working on, and have started on sketching out some of the pannels. does anyone have any adivce for drawing chase scenes?

>>7810780
Just draw a bunch the person running, what they are running from, and then the locations they are going to before it ends with him escaping/getting caught. Shouldn't be more than 4-6 pages.

>>7810706
>>7810687
Thanks alot, thats super helpful.

Ive definitely gotta focus on my crosshatching more. I do a fair amount of studies, that look pretty ok, but when i apply that and draw myself i tend to turn my brain off and not put 100% concentration into it.

Comparing my hatching to yours, really shows how important good hatching is, cause all yours looks amazing.

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this was worth the redraw

>>7810706
Its amazing Junji Ito doesnt work with assistants

>>7810891
I didn't know that, but it makes sense when you see how well everything blends together

>>7810891
Well, he has the freedom to take his time, doesn't he? To my knowledge he's never been serialized in the sense that people mean when talking about manga. Lots of authors who work like that don't hire assistants.

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>>7808510
>there are severe limitations in making characters truly shine.
Skill issue.
Turn Inglourious Basterds' introduction scene into a one shot manga and Hans Landa is still a compelling character.

>>7810723
>I'd strongly suggest just trying to strike a deal with one of the existing publishers instead
That would be smart though. I'm not smart.
I'm doing this because it could be fun to make a physical comic that quality-wise resembles the big ones and try to sell it.
It also kind of makes sense for a hobbyist to try myself. By doing this myself I save a ton on printing only as many copies as I need. Really simplifies the deal and when it doesn't work out I'm still having a good printer and a few physical copies of something I made.
I planned on just selling them on local online markets for now. That would be the easiest.
Not getting into comic shops, because there aren't any within 40km from me and that would require to have something like 10 or 20 or more copies printed out and that kind of hurts on the ink.(though this printer apparently should be able to do this on stock inks, I'm still about to validate these impressive claims myself)

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>>7805205
finish my script hopefully. don't have a good handle on the structure of the story yet so i'm just trying to write scenes as they come to me until something clicks. so idk how long it's actually gonna take

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>>7810989

thoughts on using AI like this?

>>7810990
Isn't your comic an autobiography, why are you AI generating your memories?

I feel that I will have to sacrifice the art quallity if I want to keep doing comics. Unfortunely there is no way

i am generating references that are otherwise on google images. just experimenting. i just want to know ehat others think

i posted about AI art on a subreddit and got a banhammer despite having no rules about it

i respect it, but not talking about it, and treat it as something that is kept in hush tones about is not helpful at all.

>>7810995
>i am generating references that are otherwise on google images.
Then you should be able to get those reference on google images easily enough and not need to use AI.

>>7810990
thats interesting, but it would get demotivating pretty quick if you can't match this level with your sketches. I say its best to stay away from it and have the ai generate real pictures of generic farms and stuff so you can take bits and pieces.

>>7810989
The kid looks horrendous. Just search up references dude I can't believe how dumb people are.

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Sorry if this sounds to basic, but is there a "good" book that dives into the shading style or language of manga? There are some mediocre resources on cell shading in anime, but to me the fundamentals were already perfected in manga.

For example, in picrel only two tones are used for shading. One that for surfaces that faces the light, and a darker tone for faces that don't receive light. Now, as far as I know, this is called "shade". But there is no explicit "shadow" in picrel, most of it is handled by line art itself. Shadow is almost always ignored, for the head doesn't cast a shadow on Goku's body.

And I fucking love, how minimalist it all is. Just two tones for every surface.

Now is there a book or resource that talks about shading+manga+extreme limitation of tones, etc?

I have been gone for the past four to five days and i don't feel like reading all of the posts that i have missed.
Has there been any major discussions that i missed out on.

>>7811226
Well, this appears to be just a colored page turned greyscale. But you do raise an interesting question about the difference between "realistic lighting" and lighting for cinematography (for uh, lack of more specific terms) Older movies used what is referred to as "key lighting", which is using an extra light source to say light a character's face even though the scene should be well dark. Since you're drawing a cartoon a lot of things do not need to adhere literally for two reasons: One, because of the limitations of black and white, and two, because the realistic lighting of a scene might interfere with the mood or make action hard to read. Lots of things in cartoons and manga rely on symbols and the reader to do a little imaginative work. There's a lot that could be elaborated on about the nature of interpretation I think but that's a whole other can of beans.

The majority of scenes I draw take place at night so immediately I knocked head first into your lighting questions. Relying on reader imagination might sound like a cheap tool, but we always do this to some extent since we can't literally see what's happening in front of us like in real life- so even if the knowledge of "this is night" isn't immediately apparent in a panel, that context getting provided somewhere along the way is enough. To answer your question though, there aren't any books on this for this medium that i'm aware of (or likely if there are, exist in english lol) What I did was study manga I liked and took a lot of mental notes on how different authors handled those problems, all of which relied on symbolism.

>>7811271
>What I did was study manga I liked and took a lot of mental notes on how different authors handled those problems, all of which relied on symbolism.
Yep, it seems like this is the only way.

>>7810618
the problem is that your figure drawing skills nor compositions are developed enough yet to grab people from the artwork alone, so I would worry about that first. Even simple line drawings will be appealing and eye catching if the shapes, proportions and sense of space is good

>>7811259
It got more derailed than when you were posting.

>>7810989
pretty embarrassing desu

>>7811601
So this makes me feel like this general was always not so great and i was just the scapegoat. I'm i right in this assumption?

>>7811700
Correct.

>>7811701
Post your work. I cant tell if this is bait or you're samefaggin.

Holy shit this shit takes so fucking long... writing, storyboarding, sketching, inking, lets skip toning. That's still over a dozen hours for one page, not counting the time spent looking for references and redrawing shit when it looks bad. Because I will never draw something that I think looks boring, so I'm always drawing something that I can't draw.... even if I could draw anything I wanted perfectly, I'm still limited by the laws of physics and how fast I can move my hand.... its still hours and hours of drawing for something that a person will look at for 2 seconds. But I can't quit, I don't want to quit.

>>7811757
And factoring in mental recharging time double how long a page takes. If I push myself and draw while tired, it looks worse and I'm not satisfied with it, so I consider break time to still be drawing because I am thinking about it and I want to draw. If I had to pick something to have infnity of, it would be stamina so I could just draw forever no matter how long it takes. The frustration comes from only having 2 or 3 hours in me to draw so getting stuck on something sets me back days.

>>7811757
Perfect is the enemy of good. If you want to be faster, you have to abolish your idea of perfect. Great artists are great not because their art is perfect, it's because they mastered the illusion of making you think it looks perfect. It's Art magic. In reality, they have grown towards being able to do more with their time and with the same effort and that's the goal. Work ethic is it's own skill and you have to work to build it so you can do more in less time, this is as true with illustration as it is for comics.

Oh right and pick a stimulant of your choice.

>>7811757
The writing and storyboarding are the most important parts. I made the mistake on starting in the middle my first time and that was definitely a mistake. Get the first two right and the rest will be significantly quicker.

>>7810989
Oof

>>7807888
This gave me a chuckle

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Good night thread.

man thank fuck 4chan x exists so i can hide all this ai shit

>>7807675
Damn, manga comp judges either are so burnt out on the realities of marketing that they have no artistic taste left or they dgaf

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>>7806422
And this was all intended by the way. First, we train the audience to appreciate superficial aspects of art by excessive advertisement, and taking legacy IPs and recycle it in a new form.

Then we start replacing people who are serious about the medium itself with casuals, we label them elitist, accuse them of gatekeeping, etc. You can't fool these people with superficial polish, so you start replacing them.
https://youtu.be/vr20hbn_kek?t=1818

This also happened with video games, movies, etc. This happened with food too, the entire point of eating food was to obtain nutrients, good taste/smell used to indicate just that, but companies hijacked that part of our brain, and now junk food is the meta.

Then comes technology, you can't replicate human intelligence but you can damn well replicate "recipes".

AI is either gonna enslave us all (not literally as taking over, but through blind consumerism) or its gonna liberate us all, by making the outer shell completely meaningless. Survival of the fittest always apply.

This is why, I also hate anime adaptations. If 100 people read a manga, they will all have a different mental image of characters, motivations, etc. Then comes the anime adaptations, with all its music, voice acting, colors, etc. carefully designed to induce a specific image in your mind.

All of these things reduce the medium into something that could be mass produced inside a factory, or by an AI.

And yes, AI is not even remotely close to how human intelligence work yet alone surpass it, but that doesn't matter when humans themselves love to restraint themselves through conditioning, religion, etc.

The next few decades will not be spent on improving AI, instead it will be spent on supressing human intelligence until it is worse than what AI could theoretically achieve.

>>7812205
/ic/ should have a rule that bans ai.
4chan as a whole should ban ai.

>>7812312
>This is why, I also hate anime adaptations. If 100 people read a manga, they will all have a different mental image of characters, motivations, etc. Then comes the anime adaptations, with all its music, voice acting, colors, etc. carefully designed to induce a specific image in your mind.
I need to understand what makes comics different than novels in a way that isn't simply a dumbed down version of a novel because everything you said applies to a comic version from a novel. I can only think of the fact that comics are easier to adapt to multiple languages and that esoteric concepts is often easier showcased rather than explained. Too bad most people into this stuff are simply people who can't imagine power fantasies/porn and just need images.