Previously on /trad/: >>7781453
First time trying to paint something with colors
Do you need to draw the same way as you paint?
>>7821179badly? yes
>>7821224Why?
>>7821238because you touch yourself at night fucking GOTTEM
>>7820951worst thread in the board
>>7821244Are you retarded?
>>7821254stfu gooner
>>7821254bruh your mad af
>>7821293bro ive been trying to make painting like that but it always turns out wrongly. what prompt?
>>7821179No you need to paint the same way as you draw.
>>7821179I don't mean to be rude, but that's a very vague question, as there are different necessary aspects to drawing and painting and some degree of personal variance in approach. for instance, traditionally artists go from light to dark when using graphite or charcoal, but from dark to light when oil painting. but it's not like you *can't* also go from light to dark when painting. but if you could be more specific, it would be easier to assuredly answer your question directly.
>>7821507Why would you draw like this.
>>7821507If you paint like this?
>>7821567>>7821568he didn't draw like that (see picrel). the plates found in the Bargue drawing course are didactic in nature, part of a systematic approach to learning how to see a given subject and understand fundamental qualities, and to gain practical skills in your work (beyond studies). you see this even today in modern ateliers and academies, where students are made to work with a particular method - sometimes reaching 50+ hours of work on a subject over the course of a semester. but none of the professors teach that that's how all work is suppose to be. you use the approach, you gain the skills, you dispense with the approach to whatever desired extent.
>>7821585>see picrelThats just a compositional sketch, the finished painting will look completely different.>Bargue drawing course are didacticWhat is the goal. I have never seen someone draw or paint in the same style as the plates. Why would you spend hundreds of hours to learn a rendering style to never use it again?
>>7821611>Thats just a compositional sketch, the finished painting will look completely different.I don't disagree, but I don't see how that contradicts my point. you showed a Bargue plate implying that Bargue drew like that but painted like the painting of his you showed. my point was that he didn't draw like that. there are other, more finished drawings you can readily find of his which show the same thing. and for most artists traditionally, drawings were mainly for studies or preparations for paintings.>What is the goal. I have never seen someone draw or paint in the same style as the plates. Why would you spend hundreds of hours to learn a rendering style to never use it again?the goal isn’t to have your work beyond these plates end up looking like the plates. it’s to internalize reliable ways of seeing proportion, edge, value and form so your judgment becomes immediate. the plates are a training device - like scales for musicians or grammar for writers - that make fluency possible. after hundreds of hours the student doesn’t carry the plates into finished work; they carry the ability those exercises create.
>>7821611you're not gonna draw boxes or loomis heads or draw bridgman figures or autistically plot perspective either, I don't see what confuses you here
>>7821620>my point was that he didn't draw like that.My question was, should you draw in the same style as you paint. And he obviously does not, in both cases.>the goal isn’t to have your work beyond these plates end up looking like the platesWhy wouldn't you just draw from nature, then? Or use a drawing style that's similar to painting?Learning a drawing style, to never use it again, just makes no sense.As i said, what is the goal?Is a drawing itself the goal or is it just a tool, to create a painting or an ink drawing?
>>7821624Are you fucking retarded? He taught a class and needed every student to have access to an unchanging, static, fixed subject for obvious reasons. Like are you seriously mentally impaired?
>>7821622You are confusing construction and rendering. You can use boxes or other construction methods, to build up whatever you are planing to draw. You can erase the lines later, or you can just hold the concept of a box in your head. Like kim young gi did, he drew his construction lines as part of the finished drawing.Rendering form and values is a different thing.If you draw to be a better painter. But your drawings look nothing like your future painings in grayscale, what is even the point? Its contra productive, it seems.
>>7821624>My question was, should you draw in the same style as you paint. And he obviously does not, in both cases.well initially you said>the same waywhich, like I said was rather vague. but as far as the same style, of course you need not draw in the same style as you paint. but if you already saw the difference in how Bargue (or other artists) draw and paint, that should be evidence enough.>As i said, what is the goal?the plates aren’t a style to adopt; they’re a discipline to absorb. after you’ve absorbed it, you’re free to work however you please - but with far better judgment. style varies, and not every student is going to want the same style, so it's more efficient to teach fundamentals with which you can use in whatever style you like. and once you can *see* properly, you can discern what constitutes a particular style and take the best from other artists you see (and experiment yourself to an extent) and put it into your own style. worrying about style as a beginner just gets in the way.
>>7821627>and needed every student to have access to an unchanging, static, fixed subjectWhy has he produced drawing in such a useless style then? Why aren't his drawings rendered in the same way his paintings are?
>>7821632>of course you need not draw in the same style as you paint. but if you already saw the difference in how Bargue (or other artists)Make it make sense.>worrying about style as a beginner just gets in the way.Why then teaching a very stylized and artificial manner of rendering, why wouldn't you teach drawing in a naturalistic way?
>>7821634Retarded howie.
>>7821641>Make it make sense.I'm saying if you asked the question having already seen differences in how some artists draw and how they paint, then obviously no one needs to draw and paint in the exact same style, and that you would seem to already know that.>why wouldn't you teach drawing in a naturalistic way?because nature is far too complex for beginners at the outset. the plates are not a “stylized manner” meant to be imitated in finished work; they are simplified so that proportion, value, and edge can be learned without distraction. a novice drawing directly from life tends to fall back on guesses and habits, not true observation. by isolating the essential elements of naturalistic drawing, the plates train the eye to see accurately; once that skill is internalized, the student can approach nature with far greater clarity and freedom.
Okey, just to summarize everything.You spend years learning a drawing style, that has no practical application. After that, you have to learn to paint from scratch on your own?You are aware how nonsensical it all sounds, right?
>>7821568watch it chrissy
>>7821649>You spend years learning a drawing style, that has no practical application.an individual could hypothetically do all drawings like that and take it to whatever extent they desire, but for most it's not about the style, rather the understanding of the aforementioned fundamentals (proportion, value, edges, etc)>you have to learn to paint from scratch on your own?not from scratch, no. again, if done properly, you have an understanding you previously didn't and, naturally, some practical tools as well.
>>7821654>>7821649also the "years" thing is an extreme exaggeration. no one today or in Bargue's time used his plates for multiple years before going on to painting; that's certainly not how it's taught.
Stop replying to the retard, retard.
>>7821656It takes up to 3 years, to master drawing.
This is how Bouguereau drew. Clear outlines, soft, compressed values, like in his drawings.If you draw to get better at painting, why wouldn't you follow the approach of the best Academic painter who ever lived? (at least when we are talking about the human figure)
>>7821710even assuming that were true, which I don't, that's a red herring and negates nothing I've said previously.
>>7821714>like in his drawingspaintings
>>7821716In Repins academy, which is one of few traditional academies left, they draw for several semesters, before they start drawing.Tracing Bargues plates for several years, makes no sense, right. Which shows, that that's a bad way to learn art.
>>7821722>Tracing Bargues platesalready starting with a false premise>for yearsanother false premise no one teaches>In Repins academy, which is one of few traditional academies left, they draw for several semesters, before they start drawing.I'll take your word for it
If the Neo-Academic method is so good, as you tell me, why is no one able to paint like Bougie, or Gerome or even Bargue?
>>7821733>why is no one able to paint like Bougie, or Gerome or even Bargue?proof?
>>7821735Wouldn't they post it online or show in a gallery if they could?
>>7821744how do you know people don't?
>>7821746What dos "know" even mean?
>>7821758who could say?
Do any anons know how I can shade traditionally with a pencil? I already know forms & 3D Space. I even know the fundamentals of shading and the human anatomy, as I already do that on my digital tablet. But I never shaded with a pencil on my sketchbook before in all my years of art.
>>7822585>shade traditionally with a pencilIt depends. Usually you make the pencil very sharp and do a lot of fine hatching. If you want to smudge, char coal or sanguine works better. >I already know forms & 3D Space. I even know the fundamentals of shading and the human anatomyThat's most likely not the case.
>>7822585Why haven't you tried it and what are you afraid of? I think you are making this a bigger issue than it supposedly is. Mark out the shadow areas and fill them in. It can't be more complicated than that.Be mindful of shadow edges, soft and sharp and everything should be fine.
