How is one actually supposed to use this book?He opens by saying you don't need to draw circles or straight lines or curved lines freehand perfectly, but then shows diagram breakdowns drawn with perfect lines and if you try to freehand them and they're even a little bit off (like the spheres) then the effect breaks completely and they don't look 3d at all.So you DO need to be able to perfectly freehand draw a curve around a circle to make it look like a sphere.Then he says to draw blooks but doesn't explain any of the construction and just fills in random details on each one like "yeah just make shit up". My man, if I wanted to make shit up I'd just do it, I'm looking at this book TO FUCKING LEARN HOW TO CONSTRUCT THE FUCKING BLOOKS!If you don't tell me what the landmarks I should look for how the fuck do I know where to place the ears and the cheeks, if I put them too low or too high it looks wrong.Why doesn't it fucking explain anything, how am I supposed to use this shit?
>>7878560Are you genuinely this retarded? What fucking landmarks it's literal cartoon faces. The book is called "Fun with a pencil" not "Blook bargue studies" for god's sake
>>7878563How am I supposed to how fun if mine look like shit.Books are supposed to teach you something not just go "do it yourself retard I'm not explaining how to do anything, figure it out" like wow thanks fucking stupid book if I could I wouldn't be reading you, go fuck yourself.
>>7878560he's too advanced for you, you need Brent Eviston. he holds your hand the whole time
Like all teachers he says a lot of bullshit and half-truths, and doesn't remember how hard even the basic things were when he was a total beginner. Use your own brain. The broad strokes of what he says is still real and true. If you find it too hard to follow his examples it's not a shame to put down the book and just do some life studies until you feel more comfortable with your tools.
>>7878567Thanks, I'll check it out.>>7878568>put down the book and just do some life studies until you feel more comfortable with your tools.That's exactly why I picked up a book to begin with, I realized I don't fucking know what I'm doing.So instead of looking at a picture or life and being like "uhh okay so I make this line like this, and then this curve? This leg I'll represent as like uhhh rectangle? Maybe? And then a square for torso... and well it looks like shit and doesn't look like a figure at all."So I hoped this book would be like "here's how to actually draw stuff and how to think of what you look at and what type of things to break down in the image into what" but instead it just didn't tell me shitall.I wanna fucking know what I'm doing instead of making up some nebulous shit myself.I wanna know how to look at a figure and where to start drawing, what type of line to make, what types of lines to connect etc. I don't get how people think when they draw.
>>7878565>Wah wah wah, why aren't I good NOW!?Do you not know what practice is?I agree with the anon above, you're being retarded.>But muh landmarks!And do you need landmarks for your landmarks?I also seem to recall that early on, Loomis recommends drawing centre lines to help with feature placement, and if I'm right on that, that means you jumped to complain on here after looking at like 2 pages... Actually, I decided to look it up... AND IT'S RIGHT AT THE FUCKING BEGINNING, HE TEACHES YOU TO DRAW A BROW LINE AND EVERYTHING HOLY FUCK!You're too retarded to have fun with a pencil, so fuck off.
>>7878572Fuck you, gatekeeping piece of shit.Plague upon your entire bloodline for 10 generations.
>>7878571>That's exactly why I picked up a book to begin with, I realized I don't fucking know what I'm doing.>So instead of looking at a picture or life and being like "uhh okay so I make this line like this, and then this curve? This leg I'll represent as like uhhh rectangle? Maybe? And then a square for torso... and well it looks like shit and doesn't look like a figure at all."It is exactly that, actually, but it's a different way of doing things than just copying what you see. He's basically what you pick up once you find yourself thinking "okay, I think I'm getting pretty good at this xerox thing, but what if I wanted to make up my own stuff?"He basically lies when he says it's an "easy" way "for anyone" to learn to draw. It's a lot harder than just copying what you see, believe me.There are other books that focus on observational methods, though someone else more familiar with those will have to point you the way.
>>7878579>put down the book and just do some life studies until you feel more comfortable with your tools.Great thanks that's exactly what I thought.He basically starts with "you don't need to know anything... so here's a perfect representation of prefection you need to be able to know already".What a fucking false advertising cunt.
>>7878575The only one doing any gatekeeping here is you and your own laziness. No one's preventing your from practicing, but I'm starting to think this is just another bait/troll thread.
>>7878583PRACTICING WHAT???WHAT DO I PRACTICE?I DON'T FUCKING KNOW HOW YOU STUPID RETARD.I look at thing, and what do I fucking wiggle the pencil around drawing what?What do I draw?Do I draw a circle because the top of the head looks a bit like a circle?Do I imagine what the image looks like in lines if it were a comic and draw those lines?Do I draw the contour?HOW DO I FUCKING DRAW IT!!!!You dense motherfuckers are exactly why are is dying.If I look in a book about programming it doesn't just tell me "oh just write a program."It explains first what a program is, then what the variables are, then each statement you need to know in the language, the syntax of how they're strung together, exactly what goes after what and WHY it goes there and WHAT IT DOES specifically and WHY people put it there and HOW people think when they're doing it.Fucking die.
I swear to god not a single other discipline in the world is filled with so many braindead morons.Even in a fucking roidmonkey gym if you go in and look at a random dumbell lying around and think... hmm well I just pick it up and lift it up? and then put it down? and then repeat?Even there some absolutely retarded gorilla with no prefrontal cortex will walk up to you and be like "NO NO YOU ARE DYING THIS WRONG, HERE LET ME SHOW YOU HOW TO HAVE PROPER FORM AND WHAT EXCERCISE TO DO AND OBSERVE YOU DO IT AND THEN CORRECT YOU AS YOU DO IT BECAUSE YOUR HAND IS MOVING IN THE WRONG POSITION".Like holy shit, how is it possible for art to be the one thing so cucked in the world that it seems like everyone just makes shit up instead of knowig what they're doing and when you ask for advice of how to do something they just go "uhh just like do it or figure it out idk lol".Mental.
>>7878584Well, saying that you need practice and to read these books with thought makes people less pissy than telling them I didn't initially learn from books, I just drew because it was fun and oh I also had teachers and mentors and I was young and I don't remember a thing of what any of them said because it was like 35 years ago and I guess you're just fucked.At least reading books is something anyone can do. It's an actionable piece of advice.>WHAT DO I PRACTICE?Did you try going to the museum and drawing the naked people? How about the bowl of fruits? Don't you just love bowls of fruits?
Brainlets who try to reduce art aka the literal expression of your soul to some mathematical formula to solve will never make it. You don't have the spark of creativity in you. You don't have a soul. You don't even have the necessary brainpower to try and rub your two fucking braincells together in an attempt to discover something by yourself. Everything has to be chewed up and regurgitated straight into your mouth. Genuine subhumans incapable of critical thinking
>>7878587Oh believe me everyone knows that you're bullshitting, it's so obviously that literally every artist out there just bumbled their way into it by just doing random ass shit for a few decades and doesn't actually know jackshit about how they did it.That's why it's so fucking ridiculous.Even in music there ARE people like that who just play by ear and don't know any theory or anything but those are seen as outliers and the majority actually know what they're talking about.Whereas in art even teachers are just braindead morons who don't know what they teach, shit is utterly ludicrous how this craft survived at all through history. No fucking wonder it's dying.
>>7878589>t. i don't know how i do it lolPerfect example of what I'm just talking about'"CRYPTIC NEBULOUS MUMBO JUMBO, DRAW WITH YOUR SOUL OR SOME SHIT LOL IDK"Amazing.
I think what's tripping some people up is that for some reason they assume art is some purely cerebral skill that can be transferred by just reciting some pieces of theory and whoever hears the words will instantly become good.But in reality there's a big component of it that's just muscle memory and can't really be directly transferred. It's equivalent to the skill at playing an instrument. You could be a genius composer and know all the theory in the world but you'll still be shit at playing the guitar if you don't practice it and no one can just tell you how to do it. It's something you can't instalearn, it takes time and patience.
>>7878601>and no one can just tell you how to do it. except they literally can
>How do I practice?Howie thread! Howie thread!
>>7878603Isn't it funny how art is literally the only field where people just tell you "just do it???".Imagine in medicine someone being like hmm how do I perform heart surgery... "what do you meann??? lollll just do it weird"It's fascinating, isn't it.
>>7878604>But hooooowwww?Howie thread! Howie thread!!
>>7878602Then tell me. I'd love to be good guitar player, so if only reading a forum post about it is all it takes, great!
>>7878606>mommy mommy how do i fly a plane>lol just do it>but howwwwww??>idk lol>wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee>in the sad news 500 dead following a plane crashIt's like pottery.
>>7878608How should I know, I don't play guitar.But if I did I surely would be able to tell someone else how I did it instead of just saying "i just did it" like a moron.
>>7878604Actually Loomis goes into quite a bit more detail than "just do it", but you just came here bitching about how it's too complicated and you don't wanna.
>>7878611Oh great, he just throws you into shit and then later on explains something, incredible.Amazing structure.Imagine trying to bench press and someone being like just bench press by yourself first without knowing anything and THEN after a while I'll tell you how to do it properly.Actually mental.
>>7878560Ignore the trolls, like the others have said this book is very misleading because it's not meant for the beginners.What you want to start with is something like drawing on the right side of the brain which actually teaches you observational drawing, aka how to look at stuff and how to represent them in 2d, which is basically exactly what you want.And from then you will need construction, so something like Michael Hampton who teaches basic forms and how to break stuff down.Only then after that when you understand how to make lines, how to see properly and you know the fundamental of forms down (shapes and 3d shapes) then you can try this book, which is about drawing from imagination.It doesn't explain any of the basics because it basically expects you to already have like at least 10 years of experience of drawing passively as a kid and be comfortable with it because Loomis was autistic and assumed everyone did that in their life. (or maybe they used to teach art in school back in his time so everyone knew the fundamentals a bit already)
>>7878610If you don't play guitar, then how do you know it's so damn easy... you know what, I'm fucking done here. Bye.
>>7878615Thanks, I'll check em out.See, it's possible that at least someone here is not retarded.So hard to find people like you nowadays man, what has society come to.>>7878616Okay, leave then retard. No one's keeping you.
>>7878617Why would I slow down after leaving?
>>7878609more like>Flight Instructor and student>"just lift the stick to lift the plane">"okaaay, but hoooowwww">"Grab the stick, and lift it.">"You instructions aren't clear, hooowwwww do I do that?">"HURRY, LIFT THE FUCKING STICK THAT'S DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU, OR WE'RE GOING TO CRASH AND DIE!">"You're not very good at teaching, your instructions aren't clear, like hoooooowwwwww do I -">Plane crashes, killing the poor Instructor and retarded howie studentMoral of the story is you can't help a retarded howie.
Even kids and barely verbal cave dwellers solved drawing. Based on your meltdown here, I can predict your reaction to this statement, but it's the truest fucking thing you'll ever hear in art. If you can't understand it on a felt level, then you're not cut out for it - it's an art not a science. And if I'm wrong, then you'll prove me wrong by drawing a lot. Thread can die after this post, but won't.
>>7878604>Isn't it funny how art is literally the only field where people just tell you "just do it???".because most people who care about art start drawing as soon as they manage to grab a pencil, anonby the time they need formal education, they are way beyond the basicsimagine going to a creative writing class and complaining they don't teach you how to read and write
>>7878760>imagine going to a creative writing class and complaining they don't teach you how to read and writethey do in fact do that thoughever
>>7878762they teach you to read and write in creative writing classes?you go in, people start introducing themselves, do they usually write? what they usually write? what they like reading? what are their goals? and then it comes to you and you say "I don't write. yet. I would love to learn"the whole class nods alongthen they give you a creative writing exercise to do with the person next to you. it's a cute girl. you like her. you sit silently for a while. you're starting to sweat. and then you whisper to her "I'm sorry, I don't actually know how to write""yeah, that's ok, neither do I, lol, that's why we're here right?" :)"no, I mean..." and you vomit violently
>constructoidism in 2026son
>>7878770ye they do
But here's my serious answer (theory). The reason drawing seems so ineffable is because it's based in subconscious, primitive spatial and motor processes; not higher-order literal, logical, or verbal thinking. Explaining it is like trying to explain to someone in a certain amount of words how to ride a bike.Imagine that. Sure, you can say things like "keep your balance" and "pedal faster," but in the end it comes down to raw practice, experimentation, and eventually understanding from doing - it has to come from within, not from external instruction.It's why kids are best at learning how to ride bikes AND at drawing. Because they will just do it and keep doing it until they gain an insight, to the next insight, and on and on until mastery. Adults are impatient, fun-hating, hustling retards who can't understand the concept of play and being.Internet tells me cycling and drawing both engage the parietal lobe - responsible for visuospatial processing. So there's my psuedoscientific theory of the day - you need to develop your "muscle memory" by doing, even if it's painful. Most likely you will quit before you can "ride the bike" because you're like most retarded adults, and not kids who will Just Do It.Vilppu is not kidding when he says to "feel the form." I find myself at times feeling the form, and drawing the shape I want, before my conscious mind realized it wanted to do that. I didn't get that from reading Loomis.
>>7878560You can't have everything explained to you from point A to C, the learning happens when you begin to figure out where point B is. This is why progress happens in peaks and valleys.If you're the kind of person who craved direction you're going to have to accept this before you can grow at any reasonable rate.
>>7878781That's not really true, there are plenty of actually analytical approaches to learning art too.Look at sycra, he's an autist who started drawing as an adult and realized that he lacked mileage and bruteforced that by making up an approach (iterative drawing) that would work for him.So he quite literally mathed out his drawing without ever having any play or fun or feeling the form or anything.The destination is the same, some people get there by starting young and gaining mileage but they're not guaranteed to every gain any understanding so most never reach mastery, and some start as adults with greater understanding but may have trouble reaching mileage because they realize it's a tedious and long process so they may give up.The 1% aka people who end up going pro and working in the industry are people who combine both, aka start young and get the mileage and then when they grow up dive into the analytical part and gain understanding by reading theory/taking courses/learning from masters etc.That's literally how basically every master from the renaissance period did it, but it requires a very specific mindset of both finding it fun when young and also being a hustler and someone hard working and hard thinking as an adult.Most people lack either one or the other, and let's be frank most lack both since majority of the people in the world are dumber than a rock.
>>7878790Sycra is fucking terrible and inept, though. To this day he seems way too autistic for art. What art has even made in recent years? Looks like just a bunch of studies and begshit.There are other factors that go into it, like creativity, motivation, and even intelligence, that will determine where you more or less end up and what kind of art you make. But I can't be convinced this autistic STEMbrain approach works. A certain level of drawing is also about metaphorical, creative thinking - doing the "wrong" thing on purpose because it's suitable.Approaching art mathematically is just fundamentally wrong. It's like living in the wrong zip code, or gardening in a swamp.
>>7878604it literally isn't, retardif you go to football practice and go HURR DURR BUT HOW DO I KICK THE BALL, you're gonna get sent to special ed
>>7878801>Sycra is fucking terrible and inept, though. To this day he seems way too autistic for art. What art has even made in recent years? Looks like just a bunch of studies and begshit.idk but he worked professionally for games and animation, i don't really follow his work thougheh, i disagreeart is so diverse and subjective that how you approach it doesn't matter, it's what you specifically want to get out of it at the end of the dayand most people either want to achieve a specific look to do stuff that they like or they want to make moneyboth of which are achievable no matter what approach you take to learning itsome people can look at monet and be like eh his figures are skewed, the torso is freakishly long, the perspective is flat etc. and yet millions look and say wow the most incredible thing i've ever seen, and the latter can look at something like a sargent charcoal and say meh it's too simple and boring, so not imaginative while someone else may be in awe at how he distilled life into such few elegant strokes and forms etc. etc.it's all fucking subjective, to some people digimon inflation diaper fetish art is peak of what gives them serotonin, so big whoop
>>7878809Art is subjective but you pretty much need a modicum of creativity to not be an eternal studycel. I don't actually think that just any approach works. What I do think works, is a willingness to *try* just about anything. But you need to realize when something is not productive and try another thing. Too many people seek the answers in books and courses and get frustrated when things aren't coming together exactly as they had expected - because art is inherently experimental (subjective), you just have to be okay trying a bunch of things, you have to feel in your element not fully knowing shit.
>>7878814In other words, stop trying to master and tame the process before it can even get up and running. Stop rationalizing every little thing, coming up with names for "practice" (iterative drawing). Let it happen, and let yourself be.
>>7878560He never actually explains how to have "fun".
>>7878817nodraws will never discover how.
>>7878790Granted, I'm not going to look into this guy's study history, but that just sounds like getting milage by drawing a lot with some extra needless justification tacked on.
>>7878885That's the point.He realized that he knew a lot of theory but lacked the mileage, and that he needed to get it FAST because he couldn't afford to wait and draw for 10 thousand hours.So he learned about iterative drawing, which is basically a more analytical way to grind it, so it cuts down the amount of practice you need like 100 times.It was basically a way to practice a lot faster.>why doesn't everyone just do that thenBecause you need to be very analytically minded (autistic) and not just any kind of autistic, a special kind of autistic to actually understand how to get the most out of what you do.I mean you can just watch his videos on it, he explains it pretty well and hey it got him to working in production with game art assets and animation in record time.
You got filtered out by genetics
this thread is fascinating.
>>7878560drawabox was made for prebeg turboautists like you who need explanations for every point and line you put on the page, maybe start there
>>7878584That's because you only read baby tier programming books, come back after you've implemented a few of these: compilers, databases, 3d game engine, emulator for a 5th gen console, or an operating system (basically get to high beg/ low int)
>>7878589On the contrary I find the process of drawing very similar to doing pure maths. Maths requires creativity in finding a way to prove statements and good books has no solutions, therefore forcing you to try shit out (some will even make you develop the theory by yourself, with small hints)
>>7879250This has nothing to do with drawing, you sound soulless
>>7879257This has nothing to do with soul, you sound drawless
>>7879260reddit reply, so corny and embarrassing
>>7879266>doesn't deny it
>>7878560You're worrying too much about "drawing right" and not enough about constructing silly things with shapes. The point of blooks is to teach you how to place shapes on a sphere and rotate it in a 3d space, not to draw a convincing face. You obviously should use rough landmarks to make placements look generally right, but as he says right in the book, the loomis method can be stretched and squashed any witch way to fit any art style or facial exaggeration. You can worry about being accurate to a real person's face a little down the line. I hope this post helps you because I love that book and I hate seeing someone struggle with it
I have wondered if there are ways to do his silly heads "wrong."
>>7878817it's subjective, you have to find your own fun
>>7879331well you clearly did because those look like garbage
>>7879340Nah, those are just the cartoons Loomis has you study from. Loomis is not a cartoonist.When you start drawing the full body, his cartoons start looking significantly better.
I did 36 of these lately, I'm gonna finish this book this year, i've noticed improvement on my constructions.
>>7879331They look silly to me.
>>7878560why do begs expect the world from this book?its just a simple book on cartooning
>>7878560i once read that he and similarly timed artists were paid by the word and that really re-framed his lessons. that said i like his personality, the line that's like "the circle can be as lopsided as the family budget and thats okay" has stuck with me. just draw
>>7878604it's because you're not gonna die if you draw something wrong you spastic retard
>>7878613You're doing it wrong. Fwap is all just about drawing sloppy faces and learning how to rotate them accurately. Eventually you will get into actual facial features in Heads and Hands but it sounds like you are going to be unhappy with any lesson strategy that involves learning things over time
