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>>7894640

>>7894640
All you need to know it how to feel the forms after that everything unlocks at once and you are no longer a begcuck

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>>7894673
havent drawn in a year or so, whats the best courses/books? so far this is what i did
>Marshall Vandruff 1994 perspective
>Draw A Box, completed form challenge
>Proko Anatomy (learned nothing)
>Glen Vilppu Courses (learned almost nothing)
>Steve Houston Head Drawing (learned a little)
>Peter Han Dynamic Sketching (burnt out grinding straight lines)
but idk, i try to "just draw" but nothing is clicking for me

>>7894640
That's an exaggeration

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>>7894884
Despite all the debate, I genuinely think Loomis is still very good. At the very least, I think Figure Drawing for all It's Worth is worth studying from.
Jack Hamm's book is good too, though it's better more-so for the tip and tricks, and certain little tid-bits, of drawing aspects of a believable figure, rather than being a good drawing guide like Loomis' books are.
So give those a look, they're easy enough to find online that it's worth at least that much effort to see if they're right for you.

A lot of people swear by Bridgman, I haven't read those myself, so I can't really give my own personal recommendation, but the abundance of people who do recommend it must mean something - 20 million people (give or take) can't be wrong, after all.

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>>7894897
>20 million people (give or take) can't be wrong, after all.
about that...

also, i tried both Loomis and Bridgman but still nothing; its impossible for me to learn something unless i really understand it, thats the thing that stops me from learning a lot of things, i need to know every minute detail before it clicks for me rather than just copying a bunch of drawings and getting good by osmosis
thats why none of these have worked so far and im wondering if theres another method to help me learn or at least to motivate me to actually draw rather than using pure discipline--ive tried that and just keep burning out

>>7894915
How many hours did you put into practicing Loomis' methods? Or did you just give up immediately after you couldn't draw like a pro after reading FDFAIW once?

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>>7894918
>FDFAIW
the problem with Loomis books is that they dont hand hold which is imperative for absolute beginners
if within the first few pages you're already talking about very complex topics like putting the entire human body into perspective, you're losing 90% of your audience--not because they dont want to learn how to draw but because its poorly designed

its like me telling you to pick up bjarne stroustrup's C++ book if you want to learn programming when there are much easier languages with far better books more suited for beginners that will get you started before you can move onto C++ (and half the time, programmers dont even go that far anyway, so forcing yourself to do so is just unnecessary)

the issue with most artists is that they dont know how to teach beginners
you have to know drawing at a very intimate level to even do that which most artists dont, they just sit down, draw, and everything they do is just muscle memory
thats fine for drawing but doesnt help beginners at all

assuming people just immediately give up is just a poor taste assumption
i burnt out after doing 10 hour drawing days for a month because some dumb fuck said you had to draw 16 hours a day as a beginner
other than that i probably spent close to 1000 hours studying courses, watching glen vilppu, steve houston, brent eviston, and literally anything i can get my hands on with no success
drawing is quite literally the only skill that had the lowest ROI compared to the amount of time i put into it

its got nothing to do with "discipline" or "being lazy" and everything to do with artists not understanding how to teach beginners which is an extremely rare skill

Marshall Vandruff is quite possibly the ONLY teacher (maybe Steve Houston) who can actually teach an absolute beginner how to draw
of the 30 or so teachers ive tried to learn from, he's the only one i can watch and feel like i "get it"

but yea, assuming people are just lazy or give up easily is typical pompous artist shit

>>7894918
>>7894919
tldr; thousands of hours spent, little learned, try not assuming people
>give up immediately after you couldn't draw like a pro
as it just outs you as the typical arrogant artist who cannot, to save his life, teach an absolute beginner how to draw

>>7894920
>>7894919
>>7894918
subsequently, just to put into perspective, here are the books ive made genuine attempts to learn from
>the typical meme Loomis books
these are for people who are already pretty decent at drawing already, does nothing for actual beginners
>bridgman
same as above
>drawing on the right side of the brain
decent theory but there are far better books for that if you want theory
>how to draw by scott robertson
perspective part is decent but there are far better perspective books
>Morpho series bny Michel Lauricella
seems helpful but did nothing for me
>Figure Drawing by Michael Hampton
focuses a lot on anatomy which isn't very useful for beginners when you can barely draw form in 3D space
>anatomy for sculptors
same as above
>Jack Hamm's bubble-people anatomy
same as above
>Glenn Vilppu
nice to listen to but i learned nothing
and MANY, MANY more

ACTUAL GOOD RESOURCES:
>Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters - Robert Beverly Hale
>Perspective - Joseph D'Amelio
>Gesture - Drawsh
>How to Draw People - Jeff Mellem
>Steve Houston's Courses
might be missing a few others
my main gripe with /ic/ is that every artist here who knows how to draw recommends Loomis like a fucking ignorant faggot when there are FAR BETTER books for actual beginners
i could've avoided burning out if people on here weren't retarded and didn't keep recommending fucking meme garbage like Loomis

thats why when AI started to make all of you homeless, it put a smile on my face
Karma is real and this is what you get for (usually) knowingly misleading people so that they purposely burn out rather than genuinely helping people learn how to draw

>>7894919
>a book about a subject as dense and yes, advanced as figure drawing
>"absolute beginner"
You goddamn idiot

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>>7894927
then dont fucking recommend it
are you purposely being fucking retarded??
how much of dumb motherfucker do you have to be to recommend FIGURE DRAWING to actual beginners
no int on here is going to ask a basic-ass question such as HOW DO I LEARN TO DRAW
use your goddamn head and stop blaming other people for your fucking sub-80 IQ takes

>It's a nAIgger no-life faggot baiting again
I read some of this slop and just assumed he was a colossal retard organically, my mistake. This board is still a dumping ground for human waste I see

>>7894929
nope, no AI
just someone who was tricked into believing people on /ic/ genuinely wanted to help rather than to hurt your drawing progress
fuck off the board then if you dont like then :)

>>7894640
What OP is describing is to be Leonardo DaVinci, not a regular draftsman. In order to be a successful artist you just need to understand all of these things on a surface level. Every job has its specializations, and the same goes for professional illustration.

>>7894915
Why are all conspiracy theorists after the pandemic running some kind of victory lap, like you have been right about anything?
Vaccines are still confirmed to be working, COVID vaccine included and masks still do help to mitigate the transmission of viral infections.
Stop pretending to have proven anything to anybody, you science denying moron.

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>>7894934
>mortality rate under 1% for most people
>inject this mystery substance into you
>no it doesn't stop transmission
>no we wont tell you wants inside of it for 55 years
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/

labeling anything that goes against corporate news as "Conspiracy Theory" isn't working Rajesh, when 90% of "Conspiracy Theories" end up being true years later: JFK/911/Epstein/Hunter Biden/etc./etc./etc.

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>>7894933
>Leonardo DaVinci
/beg/

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>>7894929
>nAIgger
even the clanker gives better advice than 99% of you retards

>>7894956
You're like that guy who took legal advice from AI and then got pwned, or that guy who died taking medical advice from AI (something with bromide). AI just tells you what idiots online have already said.
In this case it's regurgitating an untested, unproven /beg/ adage based on the neurotic idea that drawing more can ever possibly be bad for getting better at drawing. You won't reinforce any "bad habits" or "patterns" by just drawing - other than maybe a habit of drawing more.
Think less, read less, watch less, draw more. At least that's how anybody who ever got good at it actually did it.

>>7894926
>when there are FAR BETTER books for actual beginners
Nah, FWAP is a great beginner book, so I don't know what you're on about. There are better beginner books mind you, but it's still a good one.
This all said, the anon requesting book recommendations didn't ask for a 'absolute beginner guide'. They're in a thread about anatomy, and have said they've gone through several courses before - surely it's right to assume they have some level of skill, yeah?

>thats why when AI started to make all of you homeless, it put a smile on my face
Ah, so you're just a contrarian piece of shit. Imagine being giddy, because people who aren't the best teachers or advisors are, in your mind at least, having their lives ruined and dreams shattered. Get fucked.

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>>7894975
>Think less, read less, watch less, draw more. At least that's how anybody who ever got good at it actually did it.
nope, and no matter how much you keep spamming "just draw" it will NEVER be correct
you can blame people for their lack of discipline all you want but it is 100% bad advice, just because you're too ignorant to realize this doesn't make it false,

and no, your ability to draw doesn't prove your advice actually works
i can give you shitty programming advice on purpose and my ability to make programs wouldn't make that advice any less shit

its amusing to see you pompous artists get mad whenever people (rightly) say your advice is shit
just give up, stop giving advice and just draw
teaching is not for you
you will never teach a beginner how to draw because you do not have that skill
no matter how much you try to put the blame on the student, at the end of the day, it's your ignorance that makes your advice shit

just admit it
your advice sucks
its very simple
say it with me:
>just because i can draw doesn't mean i can give advice on how to draw
now say it three more times :)

>>7894975
You forgot spergs take everything literally.
There's probably someone out there who died because they read on /ic/ they should just draw, and breathing is not drawing.

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>>7894977
>Nah, FWAP is a great beginner book
nope
>There are better beginner books mind you
great!
and seeing as we're thousands of people all grouped up into a single board to learn about the topic of drawing, why are we recommending books that aren't the BEST in the field?
seems fishy
>but it's still a good one
nope, and it will never be a good one and you will never be able to ever provide proof of it ever being a good book
you will never find an artist who was a genuine beginner and used FWAP to get decent at drawing, ever
it simply will not happen because its not true
>They're in a thread about anatomy
nope
>said they've gone through several courses before
>surely it's right to assume they have some level of skill, yeah?
nope, that's a poor assumption
you can take 100 courses and learn jack shit and still be shit at drawing
despite that, anatomy is an ADVANCED skill
no one who is intermediate is going to be asking general "how to draw" advice
so its safe to assume that OP might at LEAST be a high-beg
>Ah, so you're just a contrarian piece of shit.
nope, i like seeing Karma playing out, sweet, sweet KARMA

did you really think you were going purposely mislead artists for years and years and get away with it?
learn from your mistakes
stop giving advice you know is bad
make an attempt to not derail new artists
be a good person
all of this could've been avoided, or at least their downfall could've been pushed back, if you didn't have such contempt for beginner artists and assume they're all lazy or "spergs" >>7894989
you sir, can GET FUCKED

>>7894986
It's not "lack of discipline" that is the problem, I never said anything about that. It's lack of interest. The vast majority of people who think they want to get into drawing are chronically uninterested in drawing. They didn't like it as children, they don't like it as adults. So they try to hack the process, speedrun it and get good enough to do comms in a year or some stupid shit.
It's why no matter what advice you give them, they don't improve, and "just draw" is actually the best advice. You have to want to draw to get good at drawing. I don't suppose anyone ever got good at drawing who didn't like drawing.
Keep consulting with your AI therapist, though.

>>7894997
>It's not "lack of discipline" that is the problem, I never said anything about that.
"retardation" or "autism" or "sperg" or "discipline" or "lack of interest" it doesn't matter what excuse you use
these are all labels cast upon the beginner by a mediocre teacher to deflect criticism of their shit advice
>The vast majority of people who think they want to get into drawing are chronically uninterested in drawing.
this is not only false but even if it were true it still wouldn't explain why people who actually try to get good at drawing just get called "spergs" or "retards" or "autists" just because they can't reread Loomis and Bridgman 50 times and be good at drawing
>So they try to hack the process, speedrun it
when someone tries to learn something as an adult, they attempt to figure out the most efficient possible way of doing things, this isn't "speedrunning" this is being efficient with their times
when you're a child, none of this matters, so you can spend 10-15 years copying sanic fanart and still somehow improve; not to mention that children have a knack at learning that adults typically dont have since adults are more analytical whereas children are more intuitive

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>>7894997
>It's why no matter what advice you give them, they don't improve
no
no
no
see, this is problem with you people
you give shit advice after shit advice and people don't improve so you just blame the student
its not the students fucking fault, it's YOUR FAULT, it's YOUR BAD ADVICE
take some goddamn responsibility
if the vast majority of /begs/ cant improve from the typical advice given on this board, is it the /begs/ fault they cant improve?

lets use a simplified example here
lets say we're all JUST trying to draw cubes, thats it, all we care about is learning how to draw cubes

how would you go about it?
typical /ic/ artist
>just draw cubes bro

obviously that doesn't work
you need a foundation before you try to draw cubes
you need to understand why a cube looks the way it looks
you learn perspective first, learn about vanishing points
you learn how when you turn objects they look different and are thus drawn differently

D'Amelio's book goes into this in perfect detail

what you essentially do is say that becuase your "just draw cubes" advice doesn't work, it OBVIOUSLY must be the students fault, when that is NOT the case

you are just shit at giving advice

>>7895002
You are pretty much exactly the type of person I'm describing, and yes I am blaming you for your problems at this point. Trying to sprint the 100m competitively before you can even manage to crawl on your atrophied baby legs. Sure, add the neurotic fear of "drawing wrong" or "learning wrong" to the already difficult task for yourself of "drawing consistently at all," that makes sense. This is how every BUSY ADULT ADULTING NOW SERIOUS BUSINESS NOT A DUMB KID ANYMORE AIN'T NO TIME FOR THAT GOTTA DO MY TAXES starts out and of course they hate every punishing minute of it and burn out immediately. Just makes no sense whatsoever, to read a bunch of books before picking up a pad of paper and pen.
But hey, the AI chat bot is on your side, at least.

>>7895003
You're not going to get it, you're never going to get it. So why are you doing this to yourself? Go watch Netflix or something.

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>>7894994
>nope
Yep
>why are we recommending books that aren't the BEST in the field?
Because while fwap isn't the very best in the field, Figure Drawing for all it's worth, head and hands, Successful Drawing and Creative Illustration all are.
>nope
Yep
>and it will never be a good one and you will never be able to ever provide proof of it ever being a good book
Beyond it being recommended by professionals and institutions alike? Should I grind it up into some beakers and test tubes, and do some scientific tests on it? What the fuck kind of evidence are you expecting? Actually, before I provide proof, show me evidence that your "ACTUAL GOOD RESOURCES" are actually good resources - I'm expecting something other than testimonials, because Loomis already has plenty of those, and they're clearly not enough to change your mind.
>nope
Yep. We're in a thread about an anon claiming that artists need to know more anatomy than doctors, the thread is called "More Anatomy than a Doctor", we're in a thread (loosely) about anatomy
>nope, that's a poor assumption
As poor as an assumption that they're a complete beginner that needs a complete reintroduction to drawing, despite doing all those courses.
>despite that, anatomy is an ADVANCED skill
Depends. There are levels to it. Even Fwap starts off teaching simpler manikin figures before going into more specific anatomy. The simple landmarks for getting proportion right could be considered anatomy. I'd say Anatomy is a skill that develops over your entire time learning art, from beginning to end.
>nope, i like seeing Karma playing out, sweet, sweet KARMA
>did you really think you were going purposely mislead artists for years and years and get away with it?
Until you prove, with evidence, that your ACTUAL GOOD RESOURCES are actually any good, you're just as much a piece of shit as those recommending Loomis.
So yeah, continue to get fucked.

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>>7895005
how do you study a foreign language?
how do you learn to play guitar?
how do you learn to write?

hell, lets go with writing
do you just randomly scribble words for 10 years because
>you cant start of SERIOUS!!!
no
you learn spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.

DRAWING IS A SKILL

its not some special fucking esoteric ability
it only seems that way because people like you purposely give bad advice to derail people
so people have to sift through shit advice after shit advice to get good at drawing

>But hey, the AI chat bot is on your side, at least.
stay mad
gives better advice than any of you faggots ever gave these past 7 years ive been on here
>>7895007
case in point
thank you for proving me right once again
you people dont actually want others to improve, you're simply here to bring people down
sucks that only became obvious after years
im such a great and noble person, i really thought people were out here trying to help each other
thats what i get for being genuine and honest

but at least i learned my lesson
you faggots will never, ever prove me wrong
ever
even after fucking years i have YET to be wrong ONCE about my points
ONCE
no one has EVER been able to show me PROOF that their "just draw" advice works for absolute beginners
not-a-once

FUCK IT FEELS GOOD TO CLOWN ON YOUR SUB-80 IQ ASSES

>>7895003
you're the eternal victim. Sad.

>>7895010
>>despite that, anatomy is an ADVANCED skill
>Depends.
KEK
at this point you're not even trying hide your maliciousness
just admit that you only come on here to make sure no one improves at drawing with your bad advice
just do it, not for me, but for yourself, see how good it feels to finally admit it

>>7895014
>NOOOOOO you cant just EXPLAIN things!!! you have to just draw and draw and draw and draw and somehow get good with no instruction!!!!

>>7895016
Wait, so you don't think proportions and landmarks are beginner level things in figure drawing? You have to be trolling, where does one even begin, if not there?
Also, no evidence for the quality of your recommendations, eh? Guess you're the malicious one here.

>>7895003
>you learn perspective first, learn about vanishing points
Shouldn't you have learned this in grade school? 4chan is an 18+ site

>>7894940
>mortality rate under 1% for most people
It's the spread rate that is the most important. It's obvious, like with any other virus, that there are low or hight risk grous. The catch is that we have to treat all of them, and guess what happens if the medical system collapses under the pressure? You can't cure diseases that impact other people, flat earther.
>mystery substance
>no we wont tell you wants inside of it for 55 years
Every vaccine clearly says what it contains, which can be tested in any lab with the appropriate equipment. No it doesn't have to be run by a government, flat earther.
>no it doesn't stop transmission
No scientist ever said this for ANY vaccine in history. If you fall for political propaganda, that's on you, flat earther.

>proceeds to pull all possible unconfirmed conspiracy theories available out of his ass.
Fucking retard.

>>7894943
>2026
>bait
you have to be at least 18 to post here

>>7894884
Perspective made easy

The perspective drawing handbook

All of Paul Richer’s books

Some Morpho books

Loomis

>>7894919
This isn’t even hard to do nor understand. This is incredibly basic perspective application and figure drawing

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>>7895042
>No scientist ever said this for ANY vaccine in history
Not even him, but fucking lol.

>>7895044
Obviously a joke anon lol

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>>7894884
People get wrapped up in what magical tome they can read that will instantaneously grant them the skill to draw.
Pick one book, copy an image, then try to draw the image without reference. Your goal is to reach 90% accuracy before moving on to a different image and repeating the process. Memory recall and iterative drawing is the best form of learning. Mix in finished work while doing this and you'll be better than most of /ic/ in a few years.

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>>7895025
doubling down on your maliciousness i see
>proportions and landmarks
you learn these OUTSIDE of anatomy not in anatomy
you should be able to measure propotions/angles and use landmarks WELL before you get into anatomy training
but nice try trying to twist my words to create a strawman of my argument
>>7895031
>grade school
they dont teach drawing at school, at least not in any schools in my country
>>7895042
>unconfirmed conspiracy theories
good try
i guess the Hunter Biden laptop never existed and is just far-right conspiracy, right?
>>7895044
welcome to /ic/, first time here?
>>7895046
>incredibly basic
installing Arch Linux is incredibly basic, you really need the guide for very basic and simple commands?
what are you retarded?
this is how you sound
"basic" is relative
i can install Arch Linux without the guide because it's "basic" information for me that's immediately obvious
you however, cannot
saying it's basic is not an argument nor a valid point by any stretch of the imagination
>>7895059
>grind figure drawing
yea, this is shit advice that i already did
i literally did a fucking REAM of figure drawing and did not improve
>inb4. HURRRR URE DUMB AAAAH IT WERKED FOR ME!!!
this is advice that SOUNDS nice but when actually applied practically doesn't work because its significantly more complex than just "muh break it down anatomy"

just goes to prove that i am completely right that this entire board has NO IDEA how to teach beginners how to draw at all given that ive actually taken the advice seriously and have not improved
my fault entirely though for actually taking a basket weaving forum seriously but that doesn't mean i cant come on here to trash all of your shit advice

>>7895068
Actually posting your work would have netted everyone a better idea on were you actually stand and how to actually improve, but instead we're stuck throwing darts in the dark.

>>7895071
ive been here posting my work here for almost 7 years
if this actually worked, i wouldnt be here saying no one on this board knows how to give good advice
that would be a contradiction to my entire premise

>>7895075
>still hasn't posted work

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proof of my Loomis claim
>>7878560
random anon confused on how this book is actually supposed to help him

like i said, Loomis isn't for beginners and anyone still recommending his books is being malicious in recommending it

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>antivaxx conspiratoid retard constantly in a state of elevated panic & fear can't enjoy drawing
Who the fuck would have thought? Fix your mental problems before engaging in a leisure activity, psycho. So many people here are suffering from a cocktail of mental illnesses and somehow they believe adding drawing into the mix (not for fun of course, as a prospective career) will improve their station in life.

what is FWAP

>>7895059
And how do your learn to color? I pick 2-3 colors for flats and everything looks wrong already.

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gud flamewar. now kiss.

as a /beg/ to be honest desu i interpret "Just draw" as a filter for "Do I enjoy the process, not just the idea?". My view is if you actually enjoy something, you will naturally seek advice in good faith as part of just doing it a lot, which will in turn help build skill faster.

Like, I have spent $3000+ on guitars and equipment - not counting the lessons - but I never touch them and i suck. Learning felt like homework 100% of the time. I was able to grind out some riffs and build some basic skills, but i never was able to suddenly enjoy practicing and playing so i never got better beyond what i forced myself to learn.

Compare that to drawing: Yes I get in my own head about being shit. Yes I "wish I was good enough to draw cute anime grills". But I actually like the process of drawing; not just the idea of being good. When I can push past crabbing myself and focus on drawing, IDGAF if I'll get mogged or ignored in the /beg/ general. I unironically 'just draw' and enjoy it. I trust myself to get better with time.

It's sometimes hard to find that state, but It's like the gym. If you actually enjoy lifting, running, swimming, etc. you'll naturally do it more and get stronger over time. Then you use routine and discipline as tools to force yourself to have fun on days you don't want to get out of bed. I have never regretted dragging my ass into a pool at 6am after the first lap.

>t. will probably burn out on drawing in 3 months anyway lmao

>>7895108
problem is when people actually ask for advice and all they get is
>just draw
thats not advice
people come on here to get specific advice that might actually work since people still trust other people rather than a machine like AI
>use routine and discipline as tools to force yourself to have fun
yes, you sometimes need to force yourself but there's also a difference between punishing yourself and staying motivated
i did 10 hour days because some artist said thats how to get good and i believed him because he was good at drawing
the problem is that as a bad, beginner artist, forcing yourself to draw shitty art after shitty art as a grind is only a punishment that will make you burn out

thats why important to go back to basics and figure out WHY you want to draw in the first place, once you have that, you can decide what advice is useful and what isnt

for instance, if all you want to do is draw landscapes, doing anatomy drawing is going to be a complete waste of time; it may help in some ways but there are far better ways to use your time instead

>>7895093
It's the sound I make when stroking my penis to futanari pornography.

This thread is so funny. It’s like watching retarded monkeys fling shit while screeching into the void. Anyway, I’m adv/pro and my opinion on it is just that >>7895108 is largely correct. Someone who only works hard can never surpass someone who just enjoys the process. It’s the first thing I look for when I judge a student’s potential. My only advice for you retards it’s just to try learning from life and observation. Courses are really just guidelines to hold your hand for most beginner level stuff. I think of the old masters and how they learned, and try to reproduce the process. Good luck, monkeys!

>>7895154
>I’m adv/pro and my opinion
you drew when you were a kid, forgot all the fundamentals that you learned when you were a kid, and only remember the latter half of what you learned
this is evident by the absolute basic advice of
>try learning from life and observation
this means literally nothing
what is "life" and what is "observation" and how do you do those things?

if we bring this into mechanics perspective, i can tell you to just "observe" how the engine works but it means absolutely nothing if you don't know what most of the shit around the engine is
a seasoned mechanic will walk you through it: this is the timing belt, this is the alternator, this is the serpentine belt, it does yada, yada, yada

but yes, someone who enjoys the process is going to put more time into someone who doesn't and treats it like a job
this doesn't help anyone though, this is just a fact
what would help people is HOW to learn to enjoy the process
but no, that's way too useful for /ic/, cant actually have people drawing now, can we?

I owe everything to Loomis, Seok and Norling so far. They are heroes on this board.

>>7895154
>I’m adv/pro
>using idiot /ic/ permabeg terminology to describe your skill level
hmm, doubt

>>7895160
If you were one of my students I’d give you a long and drawn out reply to explain exactly what I mean, but I only come to ic for my own enjoyment. You’re just gonna have to figure it out and if you can’t hack it then that’s too bad! It really is just as simple as “observe” and reproduce!

>>7895169
When communicating with monkeys, you use monkey language! This is the most entertaining of all art spaces online to me so I’ll admit this place has grown on me.

>>7895174
Cringe god complex faggot lol. I admit people here are retarded but I feel a little bad for the "students" being scammed by you. Though I guess they deserve it for getting duped by a fraud.

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>>7895118
oh 100% agree if you pyw and ask 'why are my gestures feeling so stiff?' instead of no image vagueposting in the vein of 'why am i not getting better' and only get
>just draw
as a reply that is frustrating. i took an irl sketching class and asked questions about a good path for improving and got the 'just draw' answer. it was gay and annoying considering i was pre/beg/ at the time and had to have /ic/ and previous CADD knowledge point me towards studying theory for more than the first class. you just gotta interpret 'just draw' as anons saying
>keep it up bro, you'll figure it out
as with anything on 4channel dot org there's a level of detachment you need for advice you receive or lack thereof. NYPA applies. /ic/ is not your personal art-tutor.

>forcing yourself to draw shitty art after shitty art as a grind is only a punishment that will make you burn out
i had already spent way too much time on my blogpost so I didn't get into it, but yeah setting yourself up for success and not burning out is also very important and a completely different skill.

>>7895160
>what would help people is HOW to learn to enjoy the process
i feel like that's something only you can teach yourself, anon.

>>7895174
>I only come to ic for my own enjoyment
case in point
thanks for proving every single one of my points correct :)
>I’d give you a long and drawn out reply to explain exactly what I mean
and you'd waste your breath since none of the advice you can give would actually be worth listening to
anyone who has ever "learned" from you would have become competent with or without you
thats not a real teacher and is no different from idiots who make the "How to Draw an Eye" tutorials

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>>7895183
>i feel like that's something only you can teach yourself, anon.
nope, that was a bait question; thanks for taking it
here's how you can enjoy the process
>Positive Reinforcement
without positive reinforcement you will never enjoy the process
PR comes in many shapes and forms
the most obvious is when kids are praised for their art, that's PR
this keeps them motivated to keep drawing even though they're fucking pre-beg
another method is to stick to simple subjects, these will allow you to create decent work you can be proud of
the more PR you have the more enjoyment you have in the process and the more you draw
the more Negative Reinforcement you have (this board for example), the less you draw
thats why people who try to learn Anatomy or Figure Drawing too early will burn out the fastest
that's why it's the worst possible advice you can give to a beginner, that's why i trash anyone who gives it
>not your personal art-tutor
not an excuse for ignorance
you know or you don't know
clearly you do not know how to teach
its okay to admit it

>>7895189
>clearly you do not know how to teach
yeah dude i said i was /beg/ how would i fucking know how to teach lmao it'd be the blind leading the blind

>>7895185
Does screeching into the void make you feel justified? To scream out to the internet “I was right! I was right!!!” Lmao! I agree though, that all my students who became good would have done it regardless. Because that is the nature of good artists. I only helped them get there a little bit faster. Good artists don’t need constant hand holding like you or reassurance that their time isn’t wasted. They don’t need courses or spoon feeding of knowledge, they find it themselves. If the advice doesn’t work for them they just switch to something else. They just do well no matter what! And that’s why I don’t feel bad letting beginners fail. And if you can’t hack it, I recommend you pick up another activity like watching movies or playing basketball.

>>7895194
why would you suggest certain things cannot be taught?
>i feel like that's something only you can teach yourself, anon.
when it clearly can be

ive studied many skills and while SOME aspects cannot be taught, MOST can be
of all the skills ive learned, only the really advanced stuff cant really be taught
all of the beginner fundamentals CAN be taught

/ic/ getting a conniption just because i point out their ignorance is simply amusing to me

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>>7895195
>I recommend you pick up another activity like watching movies or playing basketball.
again, case in point
you have no interesting in helping others improve
in fact, you want to contribute to all the bad advice to make sure people DO NOT improve
you're literally just proving my point
why would you even reply to the post if you're going to double down on being retarded?
the whole concept of spreading ignorance eludes me, we already have reddit

>>7895154
Thanks for the advice Geto.

>>7895196
>what would help people is HOW to learn to enjoy
>why would you suggest certain things cannot be taught?
anon, someone else can't teach you how to have an emotion

>>7895199
>>7895199
I made it clear that I’m only here for my own enjoyment, clown! And yet here you are on ic seething over your own ineptitude and impotence, lashing out at anons for not giving you private tutoring. On ic of all places! Lmao!!! Who is the greater fool?

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If you guys ever find yourselves feeling like this drawing thing might be too difficult, remind yourselves that you chose to make pictures the hardest way. It was your choice. You want it to be hard and you wouldn't want it any other way, because mastering a difficult skill is inherently satisfying.
Otherwise, well, the photography board is that way.

>>7895012
>no one has EVER been able to show me PROOF that their "just draw" advice works for absolute beginners
>not-a-once
if youre white or asian, just draw is enough. otherwise its a gamble, because sub-humanoid races will only have outliers that can learn advanced skills. its not really a talent, just luck. sorry, ranjid

>>7894934
We're right elite pedo rings and their satanic origin you faggot.

>>7894934
>Vaccines are still confirmed to be working
oh yeah, they worked really well for the people selling it to the world lol. do you know how much money they made. 90 billion dollars PROFIT. good job, little goyim.

>>7894915
You've ruined this entire thread you colossal faggot.

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>>7895209
in most cases, this is false
however, that's still irrelevant because learning how to enjoy drawing isn't an "emotion" it's a motivation
and you can 100% teach people how to be motivated to do something
>>7895216
again, thanks for proving my point
you can keep replying but the more you keep saying:
>i only come on here to spread misinformation, bad advice, and demotivate artists
the deeper the ditch you dig yourself into
i am looking down at you right now wondering why you keep on digging
theres nothing down there but keep digging if you please

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>>7895258

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>>7895260
i accept your swift concession!

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>>7895251
is this still even a debate?
>>7895241
>>7895236

>7895261
concession status: accepted

Reality: all you gotta know is how to draw boxes and forms in perspective

>>7895501
false
you need to be able to measure proportion intuitively before you jump to 3D
too many /beg/s jump to perspective and forms without learning proper proportion and their weird 3D shapes are all out of wack

>>7895507
Wrong. You need to learn how to draw without guidelines. The same way KJG did

>>7895517
Wrong. You need to learn how to draw.

>>7894640
So if I learn to draw animals, I can become a vet?

>>7895627
no he's saying that if you learn to draw animals, you wont need to become a vet

It's always weird when you come across an artist who seems to have decent fundamentals, but their appeal is so low that everything just looks ugly. And not in an interesting way, like drawing ugly people or zombies, but everything just looks bad in a way you can't quite put your finger on, like they developed technical skill but had zero taste. You can't even redline their shit, because there's no particular things which are wrong, like a lim that's too short, an incorrect muscle overlap, a poorly constructed head, rather the whole thing is just repulsive from the ground up, so a recliner would basically just be redrawing the entire piece

>>7895154
>Someone who only works hard can never surpass someone who just enjoys the process. It’s the first thing I look for when I judge a student’s potential.
>start out enjoying the process
>enjoy it for years
>study art
>see some progress
>progress halts
>keep trying
>start to hate the process because I'm consumed with the fact that my art isn't getting better, and when I try to make up with it with external validation, I find that even FEWER people seem to like my art when I post it than when I should have technically been a worse artist, like I'm even losing my appeal beyond just technical stagnation
>start to hate drawing because all it brings me is self doubt and agony with no hope of improvement

>>7895798
i don't think they grasp the fundies if they don't have appeal, anon

>>7894940
>mortality rate under 1% for most people
Its to stop the spread, not the mortality rate, different strains can be born if it spreads too wide and it would ruin all systems of healthcare, that 1% mortality rate rises when hospitals are filled to the brim with sick people. Whats funny is you also failed to bring up the stat that republicans died from COVID more than democrats as they were less likely to take the vaccine and tend to be fat, drooling retards with health conditions they get from ignoring other healthcare "propaganda". You retards will also bring up myocarditis but fail to bring up how you're more likely to get myocarditis from Covid itself.

>inject this mystery substance into you
Do you read the back of the bottle for every drink you buy? Don't go pretending you are observant of everything you use and injest. We take "mystery" substances all the time and trust our institutions for a good reason, you do this whether or not you admit it. .

>no it doesn't stop transmission
Polticians MIGHT say that, but no scientist ever made that claim. No vaccine fully stops transmissions you retard and no one worth while says so.

The fact you bring up data of a graph from one state, only a few months into the pandemic because you have a selective bias speaks volumes. Go back to /pol/ or use that TRUMPcoin to get an education if its even worth anything. .

>>7894640
I’m a registered nurse, I used to draw prior to college. If anything college helped my art more than the other way around. I don’t know for the other areas but being forced to learn where the deltoid is and how it’s distributed is helps with art

>just be autistic theory

>>7894940
Don't worry about it, it's just a mean to detonate your heart with 5G whenever they feel like doing it. It's for controlled population genocide and replacement, the usual.

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>>7895811
>We take "mystery" substances all the time and trust our institutions for a good reason, you do this whether or not you admit it.
KEK

>>7894940
>https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/
>2021
since then the data has been released

>>7895860
>online survey

yeh..

>>7895860
>KEK
Lil guy is stuck in 2017. Afraid to let you know but yes you do, you take antibiotics and other medicines with chemicals you know NOTHING about and blindly put faith in institutions you have conspiracies about.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1124-9

This is just a singular report and you can find all its sources the bottom. One of many that holds way more validity than a "Not yet peer reviewed" study of a graph you just saw online and saved as an "epic win"

You probably didn't even read this study and likely just saved this image floating around because this graph was a big fad for a small time but heres the issue with this study It has never made it to print anywhere because no one supports this study and PhD holders made up less than 2% of the total survey participants.

Wendy C. King, has explicitly stated that this interpretation is a misuse of her data.

You will happily ignore all the graphs which overwhelmingly contradict this study but believe this one hmmmmmm.

whoever took that goyshot is a special kind of retard, my 90yo granmother survived covid without taking faucci ouchi.

>>7895894
I lost a close family friend. One of the nicest people I've ever met.

>>7895896
they died in hospital or in home?

>>7895798
Irshad from DaB lmao

>>7894640
at one point I knew every anatomical detail of an arm, all the names, greys anatomy burned into my brain. I forgot everything except... oh, I forgot that one too. briachia... radi.. radialus

>>7896054
*gray(the book)

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>>7895049
lmao watching the coof unfold in real time was like being transported into a parallel universe where 100 years of epidemiology was chucked out a window in 5 weeks flat.
>We are not closing the borders because there is zero risk to Canadians
>2 days later
>There is no point in closing the borders because the infection is now endemic and literally everywhere in the country lmao

>Pay 2000 dollars a night to quarantine in a holiday inn with every other passenger that just got of the flight from literally everywhere on the planet for 6 days for a disease with a 12hr to 40 day incubation period.
>"quarantine" protocols literally less serious than for EBOLA, a disease 100x less contagious than coof.
>random unrelated travellers literally staying on the same floor as your "quarantine".
>hire random Indians to be "quarantine" guards that end up sexually assaulting the females under quarantine
>don't worry tho I'm sure that sex doesn't spread the disease :)

>get the clot shot because it's 100% effective
>fact check: false
>get the shot because it prevents you from catching it
>fact check: false
>get it because it prevents you from spreading it
>fact check: false
>get it because natural immunity is worse than vaccinated immunity
>omicron enters the room
>get it because if you don't have your primary series (even though you caught it 2 or more times already) we won't give you our special variant booster!
>booster is obsolete almost immediately

>get tested before travel and face a fine or criminal charges if you fail to self isolate if it comes back positive
>people don't go to the appointment because they are busy
>get letter saying they tested positive and will be jailed if they leave the house
>mfw you never went to the appointment and definitely never submitted any samples so how tf are u positive
^after this happened to someone in my family I personally stopped believing anything about the coof.

God I hate normies so much.

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>>7895811
>>no it doesn't stop transmission
>Polticians MIGHT say that, but no scientist ever made that claim. No vaccine fully stops transmissions you retard and no one worth while says so.
>The fact you bring up data of a graph from one state, only a few months into the pandemic because you have a selective bias speaks volumes. Go back to /pol/ or use that TRUMPcoin to get an education if its even worth anything.

Holy fuck you normie niggers are so retarded. Let me say it loud for all you fucking liberal arts RETARDS in the back:
IF A VACCINE PREVENTS INFECTION, IT -BY DEFINITION- STOPS TRANSMISSION!
You cannot transmit what you don't fucking incubate.
No scientist has ever EVER claimed that a vaccine cannot stop transmission. You fucking retard nigger that's the whole point of vaccines. That's literally how they work and why you aren't even more disabled from polio than you already are from fetal alcohol syndrome.

>>7896064
Another anon here. I decided to consult chatgpt and it says there are vaccines that provide so called sterilizing immunity which does stop infection and transmission but a lot of vaccines merely limit the effects of infection. Thoughts?

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>look at how these /pol/acks massacred my thread...

>>7896069
Same anon here.
Yeah sterilizing immunity would be what any epidemiologist would consider the gold standard for any vaccine.
>but some vaccines don't provide total immunity
Herpes simplex (vaccine) is called that because you can catch a single strain and be immune to it but be weakly immune or not at all to a different strain.
>but some % of people who got the polio vaccine still contracted it
True as with any medical intervention some percentage of the population will have adverse events or the treatment will fail. Small percentage of vaccine failures do not discount the immunizing effect of a "good" vaccine, and does not stop herd immunity from protecting you even if your vaccine fails or you cannot be vaccinated due to allergies or other issues.

By every measure the coof vaccines were total failures. The weakest argument possible was the only one they were left with: "maybe you won't be so sick if you got the shot".
Irrelevant for all but the mostly ghastly sick and elderly.
Young people (children and up to 30 certainly) overwhelmingly had higher risk of adverse events from the shot than from the disease.
Trust me when I say this, the "science" was so bent it would make the corruption of some third world shithole look like utopia. This was all political from the start.

Don't let anyone try to redefine words when they are losing an argument. Vaccines are vaccines. Coof vaccines were bad vaccines, rushed, made with bad science, and had bad evidence that was motivated by fear and political pressure more than scientific rigour.

Mods please ban these pol niggers. I only want to see art related shit flinging.

>>7894884
>Glen Vilppu Courses (learned almost nothing)

Sorry Anon, I'm afraid you're fully cooked.

>>7894640
Do people really think a person can only be good at one profession in their whole life?

>>7894975
>You're like that guy who took legal advice from AI and then got pwned
Karl Jobst? That situation was weird, I thought he was smarter than that considering his content

>>7896127
nta but vilppu courses dont contain actionable advice, its more things you should think while youre drawing which isnt very useful for beginners

>>7896064
If a vaccine mitigates the severity of the symptoms and how long you have them by default that leads to a decrease in transmission you blistering retard.

The covid vaccine was not designed to make you absolutely immune , it was made to stop it being as dangerous as it was and reduce the symptoms and time suffered from it which has the by product of lowering transmissions. Malaria and Influenza vaccines exist but they do not make you entirely immune. Your definition of Vaccine is retarded and if we lived in a good world you would be lined against a wall and shot for being such a shit peddling contrarian.

>>7896074
Duh dipshit, of course the gold standard for any Vaccine is sterilizing immunity that doesn't mean vaccines that are only preventative are considered a failure by them. When you're dealing with respiratory viruses like the flu or Covid that mutate way too quickly then silver or even bronze standard turns out to be good enough.

Also most epidemiologists got the vaccine moron. kys

>>7896074
>overwhelmingly had higher risk of adverse events from the shot.

The main one people go on about is myocarditis. 50–100 cases per million doses is the figure for specifically young men which is the same if not SLIGHTLY higher than getting it from infection, but you was overall still more likely to get myocarditis from Covid. All evidence points towards more risk from infection than from the vaccine which was still a tiny amount.

It funny you will say "True as with any medical intervention some percentage of the population will have adverse events or the treatment will fail." (even though this happens for the flu virus as well which we consider a good vaccine) but that goes out the window with random idiot on 4chan's scientific analysis on covid. Turns out mitigating the effect of covid isn't discounted by adverse effects either

Whats it like having no scientist or peer reviewed data agree with you? Must be hell being a yelling retard in the corner.

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>Arguing about vaccines on an art board

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>>7896438
>If a vaccine mitigates the severity of the symptoms and how long you have them by default that leads to a decrease in transmission you blistering retard.
Goodness me I can tell you graduated top of your class in clown college.
First of all, let me put this in a way even you can understand; reducing severity of symptoms doesn't necessarily decrease communicability of the infection. No science exists, and I mean NONE whatsoever*(beyond the dogshit small scale early weeks in summer of '20 studies that became obsolete immediately) that shows that the coof shots reduced transmission or made people less contagious. Your argument is essentially;
"well if someone is sick for 5 days instead of 8, then that's 3 less days to infect others".
Blithering fucking retard who doesn't know what hes talking about. Plz see pic rel.
TL;DR you are most contagious up to 3 days before or immediately at the onset of FIRST symptoms.
Also most of the public health advise was essentially "well if your symptomatic but vaxxed than you can go and attend parties and football games as long as you show ur vaxx pass lmao".
Even playing the biggest devils advocate I can for your position, the shot makes you 50% less symptomatic, but doesn't halt transmission in ANY MEASURABLE WAY, well now you've just turned people into super spreaders lmao. Fucking tard.
>it was made to stop it being as dangerous as it was and reduce the symptoms and time suffered from it which has the by product of lowering transmissions
LMAO moving the goalposts like a champion at the mental Olympics. Also, I already deboonked the claim on contagiousness.

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>>7896438
>Malaria vaccine
LMAO COMPARING MALARIA TO COOF LMAOO DO I EVEN NEED TO RESPOND TO THIS LMAOOOOO. If I was travelling to Ghana I would take the Malaria shot if it had a 50% chance of making my balls explode on the spot.
>Influenza vaccines
In my opinion, unless you have a very good reason to take them, flu shots are not worth the risk. They have like 20% accuracy every year. They just don't work that good for the simple reason that it's really really REALLY hard to predict which strains will be dominant in any given flu season, global world + mutation, honestly just taking care of your body (sleep, stress reduction, diet, Vit D. etc.) is more likely to help.

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>>7896438
>Your definition of Vaccine is retarded
Yes I am unreasonable for wanting a vaccine to provide immunity to a disease. Thank you for your input commander retard.
>if we lived in a good world you would be lined against a wall and shot for being such a shit peddling contrarian.
I don't wish death on anyone, but when people categorically refuse to open their eyes and use basic pattern recognition, it makes me really upset to be part of the same species.
I would never wish you or anyone death. 2 doctors in my local hospital died while running within like 3 months of each other, both young, healthy 30 somethings. Both into fitness. Both within weeks of the shot. I know for a fact that anyone even tangentially related to healthcare in my country was forced to get multiple shots over years, or lose their careers. Everyone did it. My hospital was a large regional, every nurse and doctor contracted coof within the first weeks. Facemasks, hell even full fucking hazmat wouldn't have stopped infection. Everyone who took anti-b tests came back with huge numbers, even those that thought they were never infected because they had no symptoms. Forcing everyone to take it when they knew that loads of people had natural immunity was criminal. There is NO evidence that shot is better than natural immunity. There is PLENTY of reason to be concerned about side effects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRq_o5tvBsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUXgfcattK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg_F5kE7Y4c
What you really meant to say is that "I am scared and angry because I was lied to by ppl and institutions I thought I could trust." I certainly appreciate the sentiment.

>>7896443
>then silver or even bronze standard turns out to be good enough.
LMAO. If you want immunity against dengue but I give you a vaccine against herpes, how happy would you be with my treatment. Now consider that you have already contracted and survived yellow fever on your last trip to Africa :)
It's not bronze standard, it's pointless. Everyone already had Alpha coof by the time the first shot was even available to any country but Israel.
>Also most epidemiologists got the vaccine moron. kys
*Everyone was forced to get it or lose their careers.
Nobody washed their hands before germ theory either
>All evidence points towards more risk from infection than from the vaccine which was still a tiny amount.
You can cherry pick and cut numbers, but firstly the studies are mostly bunk because they go out of their way to exclude non-treated controls. Secondly they are VERY corrupt. Pfizer bought a Texas based research firm for like a billion dollars 2 months after they published positive findings on their shot. People were fired for speaking out about problems with methodology. I'm not saying "never believe anything ever again", but do notice what people actually say when they are forced to testify before congress or the senate under oath.
>even though this happens for the flu virus as well which we consider a good vaccine
I don't think the flu vaccine is worth it because it has very low accuracy.
>but that goes out the window with random idiot on 4chan's scientific analysis on coof
coof shot =/ flu shot. Polio =/ coof. Not so hard to understand I hope?
>Turns out mitigating the effect of covid isn't discounted by adverse effects either
LMAO harms vs benefits. If you actually look deeply into this, you aren't going to like how weakly supported the "benefits" are and how strongly under-reported the harms were.
>Must be hell being a yelling retard in the corner.
Emperor has no clothes. I would rather have my own sense and be mocked than ignore my life experience.

Imagine being vaxcuck LMAO, couldn't be me.

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>>7896800
Btw it's actually even worse than this because the public health guidance in the only countries I give a shit about (the ones I live in and their neighbours), was that as long as you have your shot, you can go to work even if you test positive and are clearly symptomatic.
So basic logic would tell us that the only way you could be infected by coof would be to catch it from someone who had the shot, because if you didn't have it, you weren't allowed to go to work even if you showed a negative test result. SOOOo what does this mean? Well, we just created a strong evolutionary pressure for the damn thing to mutate resistance to the shot. Only strains that can overcome shot immunity will spread therefore within 1 month all strains in circulation will be resistant to shot immunity, which one might think would be a bad thing, but then you remember how bad they wanted to institute yearly or even bi annual or quarterly or fucking weekly boosters and how much recurring revenue that would have made them. Unfortunately nature had other plans and the variants were too virulent and quickly mutating to do this without a total farcical mockery of research science.
>>7896809
based and normal-functioning-human-brain pilled.

WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING VACCINES ON A DRAWING THREWD, GIVE IT UP

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>>7896809
king
imagine throwing your one (1) life away for the sake of jewish shareholders LMAO goy truly deserve their cattle status

>>7895818
>but being forced to learn where the deltoid is and how it’s distributed is helps with art
Explain, please? How is it distributed? Do you mean muscle bodies and insertion/orgin points?

>>7897090
Won’t stop unless a mod closes the thread lol, the cat is already out of the bag.

Both sides are retarded.
One side just allows some government stranger to inject them with a mystery liquid that will 'totally, for real, really really, stop you getting sick', and the stupid marks just accept it.
The other side is just full of morons who ignore history, repeated studies, statistics, because they 'feel' like something is wrong. well, I feel like you're retarded, get that hippy mumbo jumbo feelings shit outta here.

The only real solution is to give yourself the injection, but since 'the man' doesn't want you to do that, vaccines are difficult to obtain.
But what is obtainable is heroin, It'll make you stronger and give you a good time!

KEK a so-called centrist and yet still shilling for this jew juice!

>anyone who took the vaccine will die by the end of 2021
>anyone who took the vaccine will die by the end of 2022
>anyone who took the vaccine will die by the end of 2023
>anyone who took the vaccine will die by the end of 2024
>anyone who took the vaccine will die by the end of 2025
>anyone who took the vaccine will die by the end of 2026

>>7894926
I'm going to agree with you. Absolute beginners are easily intimidated and stuff like Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is boring and isn't great for people who want to draw from imagination.

>>7894640
literally draw some line on the paper lmao