most aren't malicious; it's just extremely difficult to teach beginners. especially the retards and autists you find here.

>>7902337
Sounds like an excuse for lack of skill.

Teaching beginners is harder than drawing itself but artists never want to admit that they don't understand drawing well enough to teach it.

Most artists got good by just grinding and drawing a lot. This is good for the artist but useless for teaching since you never actually analyzed what why you are doing works. Thus, unless you can make a beginner grind, the beginner will never improve with your advice.

This is 100% true and yet to be disproven.

>>7902340
you do the same thing

All courses up to a certain point are for the untalented or people who need their hand held thinking drawing is an MMORPG and don't know what to draw beyond grinding.

>>7902340
You the guy in /beg/ ranting about copying the other day?

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>>7902329
>Be beginner
>Want to learn how to draw
>Buy book/course to learn
>learn to draw and am happy
>Learn today I was actually maliciously taken advantage of
How sad... How could you do this to me Loomis? I thought we were just having fun with a pencil!

>>7902329
Yea. Also those boxes are fucking WONKY! what’s the point? Just perspective draw them!

>>7902492
>use other methods to learn how to draw (i.e. tutor, school, actual good books, draw with purpose)
>spam "muh Loomis" on every thread to make sure no other artist can improve
what is the end goal of this?

>>7902329
Nah you're just a perma/beg/ retard

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>>7903967
>all the girls reject me
>it must be all the girl's that are the problem
sounds an awful lot like
>all the /beg/s cant improve with my advice
>must be all the /beg/s that are the problem

>>7903977
You're being gaslit and you're correct. Let's take NMA for example...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/resources.nma.art/NMA-Course-Guide.pdf

A single track no matter what you pick escalates to 500+ hours of lecture time. A working man from 9 to 5 has at best 3 to 4 hours to spare. A beginner going through an assignment will take 3 to 4 hours to finish, so that 500 hours of class time is actually double to 3 times as much. And we all know a very small percentage of people actually finish a class. Just 1 class....one.

People will buy annual subscriptions on new years and will let their sub run out till december and not draw. They know this (the business). It's not far fetched that to tour derails (tutorials) are just another business.

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>>7903978
all of those lessons look like bloat
you learn to draw by actually drawing, noticing something that sucks, learning how to fix it, then back to step 1
all of this bullshit is just a grift, like you said, to have people's sub run out

i think it's particularly malicious because it targets beginners who would do this kind of thing
they dont care if the beginners actually watch the videos or improve, they just want easy money

what wouldnt be malicious would be weekly critiques where you first see where the artist is at, give him critique and things to work on, then meet with him next week
thats not a waste

but this subscription shit is just evil

>>7903978
>ASSIGNMENT COURSE LECTURE TUITION GRIND WORK mmmGRIND gotta FUckEN GRIIIND
There is something wrong with your retarded brain if you even consider sitting through a 500 hour lecture drawing, instead of just drawing.
It really is your fault. Be less of a moron and a mark.

>>7904000
That's not my thought process, and I guarantee I draw better than you. 100%.

>>7904019
>and I guarantee I draw better than you. 100%.
nope

>>7904019
Yet you've posted nothing of your work. Hmm curious

>>7903933
>Recommend one of the most acclaimed and well reviewed books in the industry
>Still get told by retards that you're crabbing
You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make a nodraw draw.

Truth Nvke: All course shills and all your favorite artists went to art school

>>7904027
I've seen zero evidence that art school does anything other than potentially procure you industry connections. Seems like every artist I admire was obviously good before art school or good independent of formal education. In fact, places like CalArts seem to crush artist-hopefuls into generic industry drones with no sauce as often as they "produce" an Eliza Ivanova (who would have been elite no matter what).

>>7904027
>your favorite artists went to art school
Not true, Hitler famously never went to art school!

>>7904025

I don’t prove anything unless it’s a livestream 1 on 1 for the whole board to see.

>>7904049
cringe discord teenager behavior
just pyw or gtfo

>>7904062
Take my offer of getting on the podium or just don't assume peoples thought process next time and concede.

>>7904067
>Makes a claim that he objectively draws better than the other guy
>Posts no proof
Nah you're just a lying nodraw faggot. Sad to see

>>7904070

Is that your towel on the floor?

>>7904067
nta but nice try
little teenage faggots like you i see all the time in politics doing cringe tiktok debates with no substance

every single one of you little niggers need to shut the fuck up and post your goddamn work, no one here is going onto your pedophile discord to prove anything, post your fucking work or get the fuck out

>>7904074
Live drawing duels used to be a staple around here, newfag. It's about time we brought back public executions like this.

>>7904027
The guy who's advice I follow never went to art school

>>7904075
we all grew up
no grown man is sitting around a tranny discord to ebin own some random anonymous

>>7904027
No people go to art school to make friends. Also there are similar resources that don’t require you going to a university, like an atelier or mentor. Drawing from real life is the most important distinction which can make it seem like art school kids get good from art school, when in reality they’re given the resources to draw from life.

>>7904084
You’re no fun and no amount of back and forth will change your mind, so I’ll accept that towel on the bathroom floor belonging to you and move on.

>>7904086
>mentor
how does one even get a mentor?
should it be online? i tried looking for in-person mentors or teachers but cant find anything

In other news, water is wet and the sky is blue

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all drawing courses are scams
>loomis
>bridgman
>your favorite anatomy book
>your favorite perspective book
do not buy courses

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>>7905591

>>7902369
except it would be if the mmorpg told you to do one thing but you're actually supposed to do something else and you dont figure it out until you grind and realize you were told wrong information

then just repeat this 100x and thats drawing advice/tutorials online

>>7905591
But I've never read a perspective or anatomy book so what would my favourite be?

>>7908599

there’s a disconnect when an advanced artist tries to teach a beginner as they’ve either forgotten the struggle points or are just so gifted they can’t convey their knowledge in a way that everyone can understand

anyone notice this board is getting more ESL by the day? Every day there's 5 new threads with broken english arguing about nothing.

>>7908873
>"""Pablo""" Picasso
>Leonardo """Da"""Vinci
Also, you've outed yourself as ESL by implying this post had broken English.

>>7909298
Yeah its fucking over, the ESLs like you are getting uppity trying to defend yourself without even hiding it or making sense anymore. I didn't think I had to clarify but I was talking to actual OG 4chan users and didn't want you to respond.

>>7902329
>beginners

beginner autists that actually can't learn
marginal difference. But yeah, they enroll to everything, they pay for everything but no matter what happens, they still don't learn.

Move on to other hobbies til the end of their life.

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>>7909305
Brother, I have an English degree. You are only outing yourself even more.

>its
it's

>fucking over, the ESLs
Two separate sentences. The is an erroneous use of a comma.

>the ESLs like you
ESL phrasing. Use: "ESL people like you..." instead.

>without even hiding it or making sense anymore
This needs to be completely rewritten. This is something I would read from a middle schooler.

>ESLs like you
>yourself
Grammatically inconsistent in this sentence.

> I didn't think I had to clarify but
You don't use a comma where it should be used but then use it where it shouldn't be used. Ironic.

Racism is just a stand-in for lack of an interesting personality. These boards seem more suitable for you:
>>>/b/
>>>/pol/

>>7909329
brvtal mog

>>7908873
90% of internet users are brown. It's not 2005 anymore where the internet was 95% white

>>7909329
autists who flex like this are worse than ESLs

>>7909409
>moving the goalposts
classic 4chan

i hate cube and box niggers so much it's unreal

>>7910012
why

>>7910018
nta but theres no evidence it improves your ability to draw anything more than cubes and boxes if youre a beginner
people who show improvement with cubes and boxes were always pretty good before those studies

>>7902329
teaching an obsolete skill for profit is criminal

>>7902329
Farming cash is not malicious. Everyone should go make their money, provided they do so by offering genuine value.
What is more questionable are those instructors who make courses that do not reflect their own personal work flow or any original research on their part. They are not offering true insight into their work, which is presumably what attracted the student in the first place. They repackage old information, adding nothing notable to our collective knowledge. Sometimes they are a net negative, doing nothing but smearing their branding on concepts that belong to generations of teachers.
I think Proko falls into this category. For kids trying to learn manga in the 2ks, Christopher Hart comes to mind. Another would be Bob Ross Inc, which behaves in the exact opposite way of its namesake. Bob Ross the man is one of the most honest art teachers of our time. Bob Ross the enterprise is a credit-stealing sham that dances on his grave.
Most information is free. If you pay for information, only do so from a person with real practical experience. Help each other out and pay it forward. If everyone did this, charlatans would not be a problem.

>>7913803
Regarding Proko, I think his courses are malicious because he does research.

This is bad because now he's teaching me anatomy that he didn't even know about. So not only do I have to learn what he already knows, I have to also learn this information that he didn't know about.

I went to Proko to learn how to draw like him with the knowledge he has now. But he adds this extra layer of complexity that just makes it too difficult and meaningless to learn from.
It makes for great edutainment but it never provided me with anything of value.

>>7909306
Part of it is the fault of beginners who want things handed to them but I see a lot of people who gave it a genuine try and just end up giving up by how difficult it is all at once or how dull it is. The latter is common for Draw a Box students. If retention is low because of laziness, that's one thing, but if retention is low because your course sucks, that's on you. Most of the time, it's the latter.

>>7917210
That's because conventional education is on rails at least until you finish high school and a lot of people seem to think learning is something that happens passively when you have the right teacher. The reality is people learn by having the right incentives.

The Proko basics course is technically all the right material for a beginner but it really only serves as an overview of what you need to learn with some example exercises and a forum. Just following the course won't teach anyone how to draw, but if they already have their own motivations it's a good place to start. For everyone else an effective course would need a model of education that actually fits the information age, but then that's never going to be a one-time payment of $150. I don't know if either the sellers or the buyers have fully realized this yet.

>>7913827
You did not want to draw like proko

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i didnt pay for any courses, i get them for free and i only watch youtube timelapse videos
though im just a newbie with like one week and a half of drawing experience
the courses feel very boring to me however, but some are cool

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the goyim deserve to be loosh farmed honestly, fuck em

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Actually, since the issue of nodraws, is that they don't draw, how do we help them find something that they do want to draw?
What makes someone even pick something up to draw it?
What's the thought process?
Is it obsession? Is it passion? Is it boredom? What's the mix? What's the formula to find something you want to draw and to keep finding something that keeps you hooked on drawing?

>>7919031

Having sex made me want to draw my OC I now schizo write and doodle in a notebook all about her.

>>7919036
>attaching drawing to a self-preservation coping mechanism that makes you push through all the bullshit and suffering and massively rewards you
Eh, it always boils down to this.
Artists are genuinely the lowest impulse control monkeys on the planet.

>>7902329
See a need. Fill a need

>>7903996
Trvth nuke Kim Jung Gi

How should someone actually learn to draw from scratch?

>>7920221
>figure out what you want to do as your goal
>attempt your goal
>figure out why your attempt is shit
>pick one really clearly shit thing about it
>try to improve that with study and simpler/isolated exercise work
>attempt your goal again
>figure out if the same thing is still just as shit or if you've gotten better
>if just as bad, go back to your exercises
>if not that bad, pick another thing that's clearly shit and do the same for that
>repeat and gradually start combining exercises to test multiple things at once
It's really the same for self-teaching any skill, just do this over and over. Use whatever sudy materials answer the questions you have and get you small, visible results. Always keep your goal in mind.

>>7919031
Kanna sex