Will this be ok for a beginner getting into watercolors?
That kit looks like cheap garbage with an inflated color palette. You could probably buy a kit for around the same price with higher quality watercolors, but I think sticking to under or around 20 dollars is solid for a beginner just wanting to dip their toes. To be honest that kit would probably work just fine, I'm just a picky fuck.
>>7906468Just visit Japan and get Holbein. Which is unfortunately unrealistic now because of Trump. Fuck that guy seriously. Fuck americans for destroying the world.
>>7906468Just get ultramarine and burnt sienna from a good brand
>>7906468That looks like total shit. Your very next step will be throwing all of this out and buying everything again.Get a good set of transparent single pigment primary colors and opaque black and white in tubes, a single large synthetic pointy brush, a small palette knife and a white bathroom tile, and scavenge some transparent lids from ready made salad boxes.Squeeze the paint onto the salad llds to make ghetto pans, and use the knife on the bathroom tile to mix your own colors. Student grade watercolors are just professional grade watercolors with white mixed in, so you can make those yourself.You can get water from the tap.
>>7906493shit tier reddit advice
>>7906471>just visit japan
>>7906493but i just want to paint a lovely little picture
The people in this thread are retards. That cheap piece of shit will do fine but it will fight against you a little bit and won't give you a good indication of artist quality stuff. Those brushes will be annoying unless you're painting small figures or images. The colour will not be very vibrant. Having said that, spend the money on much better paper (Arches, Saunders Waterford, etc.). This will at least be forgiving of these cheap paints. At the very least, if you quit, the paper can be used for other things and the paints/brushes are cheap enough to lose without losing sleep.
>>7906542I don't understand why you would automatically think that good supplies are incompatible with enjoying the process and/or the outcome. Do you think that the purpose of professional grade tools is to increase suffering?
>>7906542I was once told that I should always buy quality supplies - that way any fault of the final result lies with me, not my tools.Buy a set of Cotman's and a decent round brush.
>>7906468Buy whatever water color pigments. That photo on the OP looks like it's a transparent watercolor. There's two Transparent water color and Opaque watercolor aka GouacheJust look up techniques for whatever watercolor you will have. The cheapest paper you can use for beginner 1 month is the 200gsm paper. Any lighter will ruin your practice.Find a board to mount your every practice watercolor paper. Preferably it is inclined so that your Washes will go straight down. with watercolor your are controlling where the water goes. Regular Graphite and coal Pencils will muddy your colors unless it's your intent, as a beginner and if you insist on underdrawings with Opaque or Transparent Watercolor, use whatever color pencil.
>>7906468Cheap watercolor is fine, but you will need a synthetic squirrel brush and good 100% cotton paper.Otherwise you will learn nothing because you won't be able to achieve anything that looks like what you see in a tutorial, even if you follow it step by step.
>>7906471They import it here. Blick sells it. but yeah, i wanted to eventually work there, but the orange bastard will likely cause the next sakoku.
>>7906468If you live in a western country just get winsor and newton and arches color paper. I'm sure you can get all for under 50 USD.
>>7906493>Student grade watercolors are just professional grade watercolors with white mixed inBut professional grade watercolors are made from pigment, while student watercolors are mostly dye based.
>>7906468It's probably fine? It might not be as nice as better quality watercolours and materials, but you can still probably can a good feel for the medium, and create some nice images with them.You can create nice art with the crappiest materials, so you can absolutely do so with this.That said, someone else mention Windsor Newton, and if you can get similar materials for that brand at a similar price point, I would, as they're considered one of the best.
it's not fine and anyone telling you it's ok is a retarded nodrawthat """watercolor""" is full of dyes, filler, extenders and intensifiers that will make it act like shit when you mix it, confusing and frustrating you while teaching you literally nothing because it's not real watercolor and I'd be surprised if it even uses gum arabic as binder rather than some garbage like polyvinyl alcohol that won't even emulate what watercolor does physicallystupid fucking nodraw niggers giving advice should be drawn and quartered as an exampleps winsor & newton is a shit tier overpriced brand only retards recommend, low pigment content and the tube paint dries like claycotman is unusableholbein, schmincke, rembrandt, sennelier are all infinitely better while being cheaperI'd unironically recommend white nights over w&n even if it weren't a fraction of the costdaniel smith sticks are also priced ok because a series 4 will cost like 10 euros as a stick when it's on sale, just use them as cakesget quality burnt sienna + ultramarine or a basic primary setpps jackson's has a watercolor deal this this weekppps buy the biggest tube available, pans and small tubes are just retard tax
>>7907776>Don't start until you have the very best materials>Don't even consider using materials I consider the best, or you're a retardWhy should anyone listen to someone who's such an enraged and unhinged pussy faggot, that they won't even actually reply to the person they're clearly talking about.And do you think OP, who obviously has zero to little experience with watercolours, knows half the shit you're even going on about? And what good does it do him to give him buyer's paralysis by acting as if choosing a 'bad' brand is worse than nothing? It'd be better to at least play around with some shitty paints then nothing at all, because again, you can make good work with bad materials. You act like a fucking crab despite being so apparently vehemently against them. Eat the Burnt Umber out of my ass, cunt.
>>7907789White nights is like 2.5 euros for a full pan, retard
>>7907789>t. triggered nodraw illiterate brownoidop literally asked for materials and I gave him cheaper options that will produce better results, be easier to work with and have a broader range than the utter shit in the op, you dumb nigger
>>7907791>>7907794Oh wow, grew the balls to actually respond to someone? You're making me blush.>White nights is like 2.5 euros for a full pan, retardSo about 45 euros for all the colours included in that kit, without any brushes, or palettes or anything else? Cool deal, shit head.>Holbein introductory set for 10 EurosThat's better. Glad you realised how shit the other deal was.Are you going to ream OP about the best brushes and paper as well?Try to keep it more succinct like you did these posts, rather than raving mess of the last one. I like these posts, you seem less annoying and retarded in this one, though the same fagging makes you seem desperate.
>>7907799>low iq brown maldingthe shit in op is died chalk, worthless subhuman
>>7907799What "colors" would that be, retard? >bluish brown>purplish brown>orangish brown>greenish brown>white3 pans of actual pigment would exceed that entire set, 19 euros buys you 7You really are just butthurt you got called out lmoa
>>7907802you can get 12 full pans including 3 cadmiums for 22
>>7907800Actually it's a watercolour bundle set, my illiterate buddy.>>7907802There's 16 cakes of watercolour in that set. 18 x 2.5 is 45. So it's Basic maths.Now, I will agree that it's better to start with a more limited palette to learn, but yes I'm being petty, so fuck you.And can you stop double posting? It's sad.>>7907807>Another post againReally sad.
>>7907808post hand, browntard
>>7907808>still pretending those "colors" aren't just mud with a smaller gamut than a limited palette of actual pigmentNever reply to me again
>>7907811I can post my asshole, asshole, but I think you'd see plenty of brown there.>>7907815Nah. And I thought they were died chalk? Now they're mud?Anyway, it was fun shit posting with you two(?) pompous shitheads, but I've got better things to do, like jerk off, so see ya.
>low iq brownoid revels in inviting white men into his anustruly unforeseen behavior
>>7907807I really fucking hate most of these starter sets>three yellows>one greenand>three blues>one magentaAnd to top it off neither the green nor the magenta are anywhere close the perceptual primaries.It's insane just how much better that holbein tube set is, it's almost as if Japan actually has professional artists and not just gay shitters.
>>7907851That's not how any of that works
>>7907851How is that bad? You have a cool cad yellow, a warm cad yellow and an earth yellow so you don't waste cadmiums to mix browns.The green is a transparent staining green that will mix very dark neutrals with the transparent staining carmine and again cuts down on wasting cads on greens. Ultramarine granulates and mixes gently to neutralize oranges and reds, the phthalo is staining and too high tinting for a beginner to use as a neutralizer.Watercolor isn't oil, there's more to consider than just the hue.
start with the best supplies you can buyyou have no idea how shitty it gets when you go cheap
Will these do the trick?
>>7908187It's not really the price with paint, there's maybe 10-20% quality difference in the actual artist grade range while the price is like 500% at the top for no justifiable reason
>>7908375Untrue. But be my guest if you want to constantly fight your medium.
>>7908380Okay, tell me how Old Holland or Blockx cobalt blue is better than Holbein cobalt blue that's half the price.
>>7908388Holbein has more filler shit added to it, as is the case with student quality products. I own 3 lead whites: one Holbein, one Williamsburg and one Old Holland. The Holbein is chalky af, the other two are clearly loaded with actual pigment. Again, no skin off my back but investing in good paint is super important if you want to be able to get the medium to do what you want. Not to mention that a tube of high quality paint will likely last your for years if you're not retarded, and you also don't need to purchase the entire catalogue of colours to have a balanced palette.
>>7908390>here's my retarded tangent unrelated to watercolorNobody's talking about oil, nigger. I've owned every major brand of watercolor, 20% difference is generous to the extreme.OH isn't even watercolor, it's chink animal glue paint.
>>7908311if i were you id get a smaller, higher quality set that costs the same amount. that being said those dont look too terrible. to put things into perspective with a slightly dumb analogy: >imagine you want to buy a variety of wine to enjoy and get drunk off>but you live in a world where wine is like water colour: >cheap wine is diluted with water to make it cheaper>cheap rose isnt genuine, but rather a mixture of red + white (in an unknown ratio) + water; something you could easily make yourself.>would you rather buy a small set 5 bottles of pure 12% alc wine? or spend a similar amount to get 20 bottles of 4%alc watery Frankenstein wine? this analogy oversimplifies things a little, but its general point stands
>>7908392Are you aware that the pigments used are the exact same, you dumbfuck? Between types of paint it's the fucking binder that is different, and I would even argue that the quality of the paint is even more of a make-or-break with watercolours than it is with oils. Don't call people retards if you yourself clearly don't know wtf you're talking about.
>>7908395nta but if youre talking about the hobelin cobalt blue in this set>>7907794its not real cobalt blue, its a hue made up of cheaper pigments to approximate cobalt blue
>>7908395Nigger, you literally don't even know what binder OH uses, shut the fuck up lmao>pigment is the same>hurr durr all pb28 same because number sameNot even true, holy fuck you're dumb
>>7908396Yeah, which is my point that you want to spend a little more money on getting paint with the actual pigment and high pigment load, instead of cheapening out and getting shit that behaves completely different.
>>7908397Did you read that I said fillers are added to student grade paint? And yeah, 'hues' of colours exist too! I'm done, keep on recommending beginners to buy shit quality paints, I'm sure that will help them learn the medium.
>>7908398>which is my pointExcept I gave the price of the actual cobalt blues, retard.>>7908399Holbein isn't student grade and has no filler, retard.Tell me how the 6ml OH cobalt blue that cost the same as 15ml M. Graham cobalt blue is better, NIGGER
>>7908399Holbein is artist grade and widely considered one of the better ones
>>7908400Holbein isn't student grade and has no filler, retard.all paint has 'fillers', othewise it wouldnt be paint, it would be dry pigment. different brands use differents amounts, generally speaking its not like some paint is magically cheaper than others. perhaps old holland is over priced anyways tho idk? not my fight
>>7908409>more expensive is better, chud>ummmm eckschooyallee maybe some brands are overpriced lol not my fight hahaI accept your seething, shiteating concession.
>>7908409not what filler means
>>7908411i was only chirping in to correct some idiot claiming his favourite paint 'doesnt have fillers'
>>7908416>>7908415
>>7908415im aware, i was using it liberally. different brands use different amounts of binder (+wetting agent).
>>7908419>I'm awareyou very clearly weren't>I'm using it liberally**wrong
>>7908416>n-no this isn't me I mean him, I'm a totally unrelated retardI accept your seething, shiteating, mongoloidal concession.
>>7908421ive made my paints, pastels and crayons from scratch in the past. i know what binders and fillers are
>>7908424you very clearly do not, lol>ive made my paintsoh yeah? post muller and pigment with timestamp
>>7908425here are some oil sticks ive made
>>7908426>no pigment>no muller>30th monthsounds legit
>>7908427I didnt use a muller for this process, and cbf getting my pigments out. where do you think these came from lol?>30th monthim in nz
>>7908429>where do you think these came from lol?idk, the dumpster behind the special needs school?
>>7908429>>7908430sorry, that was rude
>>7908434lol allgik they look ugly but the syringes/twistable containers make them extra nice to actually use
>>7908394>>would you rather buy a small set 5 bottles of pure 12% alc wine? or spend a similar amount to get 20 bottles of 4%alc watery Frankenstein wine?Extending the analogy, suppose that I'm an Ancient Greek and I always dilute wine ?
YUP look no further artistshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLds3PgCbd4
>>7906471Seconding Holbein, Winsor Newtons are also okay but you should NOT cheap out on watercolor paints.
>>7909772I like your My Little Trumpony in the top left.
>>7907789>And what good does it do him to give him buyer's paralysis by acting as if choosing a 'bad' brand is worse than nothing?To reduce the likelihood of him being discouraged from a medium he might otherwise enjoy. A more stark example might be telescopes. Thousands of people interested in the night sky give in after trying to aim and focus a $40 telescope they bought at CVS.
>>7909764skimmed through her final thoughts, cant fault her take>cheap paint is still usable enough to get a feel for it>buy now, upgrade later if you enjoy the processthe only real issue with the paint in op's pic is it looks like dollar store paint thats been wildly marked up online.if youre broke or overwhelmed by all these suggestions: just get off 4chan, splurge $10 at your local dollar store, an start playing around. your first attempts probably arent worth wasting archival cotton paper on.
>>7906468nocheap watercolor supplies will make you hate watercolorbuy expensive 100% cotton paper, buy artist quality paintyou don't actually need a lot of paint, your primaries are enough, and you can buy rolls of watercolor paper. still expensive, but cheaper in the long run
>>7909797>hiii guys i wanna try watercolor! is this $20 set ok for beginners?>no, buy $500 worth of paper instead
>>7909809you'll waste more money, time, and patience with bad watercolor suppliesall the good tutorials and books are using artist grade stuff and if you want to learn how they do shit, you have to use supplies more similar to what they use than less. cellulose "watercolor paper" is unusable for more than a wash, "student grade watercolor" doesn't really work the same as real watercolor synthetic brushes are fine and you only need a few of themyou realistically only need a few colors for watercolor. mind you a little really does go a long way so you really are cheap buying a half pan or 5ml will last you longer than you think. that should really only cost you around $4-8 per color you really do not need 12 colors, you're better off learning with a small palette anyways. even if you just buy 1 color, you'll get a lot of learning out of that as well.there's no getting around how expensive paper will be, but you'll waste more money on paper you'll hate using. maybe don't go straight into buying a roll if you just want to see if you like watercolor in the first place thoughsorry dude, but things cost money. all this being said, you won't be spending more than $60 for the very cheapest of proper equipment if that's a lot to you then you have other shit you need to figure out
>>7909797>you don't actually need a lot of paint, your primaries are enough,How do you get proper shades though, can I just use any black/white/gray? I'm guessing more complex mixtures affect the handling but it's not much of an issue.>>7909821>there's no getting around how expensive paper will bewhy does it seem like good cotton paper is the best 'ground' for watercolour? no one uses cheap canvas panels?
>>7909821i pretty much agree with everything therebut still, telling a beginner they can save money by buying a tiny amount of paint and an entire roll of paper is funny afmaybe we're not thinking about the same rolls, but the ones i know of are massive investments made for large scale paintings
>>7906471We didn't do shit nigger get off of our dick. Trump is awsome.
>>7909787>>7909764I really rather dislike the "fine for children" mode that angloids have. Unless your kid is like four or something he's going to grow up enough to learn that you've given him garbage to work with before the supplies run out. He's going to understand that you haven't invested into him and that as a result he doesn't actually have any skill either. He's not going to get any bitches with guitar hero for ps2, so what is he supposed to do with the watercolor equivalent?
>>7909829>How do you get proper shades though, can I just use any black/white/gray? I'm guessing more complex mixtures affect the handling but it's not much of an issue.you use complementary colors to get darker colors green + red gives you a nice neutral or even just all the red blue and yellow together to get chromatic black >why does it seem like good cotton paper is the best 'ground' for watercolour? no one uses cheap canvas panels?the way it absorbs water >>7909840a little paint goes a long way, thats why watercolor is nice to use
>>7906468>5 days agoYep, op is probably gone by now but heres my watercolor tip anyway>start with pan and not tubebrands like maries or koi watercolor pan are good and cheap; holbein is around that price range but they are tube-based, and tvbe is not beginner friendly>get yourself a big (around A1/A0) sheet of paper from either arches or clairefontaine (around $6/sheet)>cut the big paper sheet down to several A5 sheets to swatch and practice your stuff >ignore paper block or watercolor sketchbook (for now)>avoid using cell paper like canson montval paper and always use the cotton based paper like arches, clairefontaine, saunders waterford, hahnemuhle, and canson heritage instead (the last three brands are more expensive than the first two)>brushes brands are irrelevant, but its always nice to have a one mop brush around to wash and paint the entire mood>learn about sizing, stretching, lifting, and other jargon in watercolor culture
>>7909972I think along the lines of the French painter who said that it took twenty years to learn to draw and one hour to learn to paint... brushes are more important than colours but both must be of a certain quality.
>>7910284Why would you not recommend a block to a beginner? Also speaking of lifting and sizing, no one in the thread has mentioned yet how certain brands of paper are going to be either better at lifting or better at glazing due to the nature of how they size their paper. Just something to watch out for
>>7909972he's not gonna grow up thinking you gave him shit, he's gonna grow up thinking these materials are what's good and their failures are entirely on their own if they can't use them rightthat the watercolor materials that fight against you using it is actually how watercolor is supposed to work like
>>7910374>Why would you not recommend a block to a beginner?Sheets are more flexible than block. A big watercolor sheet can give you a bunch of papers, with bunch of papers you can experiment with watercolor, swatching your colors, and paint stupid stuff like apples or grapes to make yourself comfortable with watercolor, underpainting, paper texture, and its character and behavior be it a cold press, a hot press, or rough. Not to mention learning about stretching and kraft-taping that thing on a board will do you something good (not a thing on a block but hey sometimes you need to learn the basics)In terms of cost, sheets are more cheaper than block. A single big 100% cotton watercolor sheet will cost you around $5-12 depending on brand; a single watercolor paper block will cost you around $25-80 depending on brand and size. >Also speaking of lifting and sizing, no one in the thread has mentioned yet how certain brands of paper are going to be either better at lifting or better at glazing due to the nature of how they size their paperGood question. Check this outhttps://featherjoy.com/articles/artistpapercomparisons
