VGH.... what could have been...
Austria-Hungary was a real thing bro. It collapsed into ruin
>>214779254Why? Did they go hungary?
>>214779254imagine if Bulgaria had been in it... in contact with a superior civilisation
>>214779182It could exist only if Austrians kept an iron grip on all of the 50 nations inside and didn't elevate any of them above the others. Once they gave that privilege to Hungarians, it was the beginning of the end, because everyone wanted the same privilege, while those who got it, didn't want to share it with anyone else.
>>214779182what could have been if the hungarians werent there...
>>214779507They'd surely have some more nice towns but other than that it wouldn't change much. Bulgaria is better off than some of the former Austrian subjects like Bosnia or Ukraine, arguably Romania
>>214779537honestly we should just have kept our russian-type rule until time came for federalization rather than give half the power away, guaranteeing doom for everyone in it
>>214779575On the other hand, the question was if such a big empire was even beneficial to Austrians. I guess most of these provinces were just draining Vienna. Such a large territory surely increased prestige of the House of Habsburgs but I think average Helmut in Graz is better living in small and ethnically homogenous Austria. Maybe only Austria+Czechia union would make sense since you're basically the same people just speaking different languages.
>>214779620comes with being an empire, you win some you lose some, nonetheless it was imperative to secure it or we see what happened in the 20s/30s, also yeah Austria-Slovenia-Czechia would be cool, slovenia´s been part of austria for longer than tyrol anyway
>>214779575>>214779620You're right, the Hungarian lands were mostly a drain and were always uppity about being taxed and doing military service. Central rule + local autonomy would've been better than EVER giving into any Hungarian power grabs. Austrians did the opposite of divide and conquer lmao, combine and grant.
>>214779182What? What could have been? It was an unstable shithole
>>214779695To this day in some houses in southern Poland they have portraits of Franz Josef on the walls...I guess not even Austrians do that kek
>>214779734were they repainted in the 90s or did the communists not care?
>>214779805I meant in private houses. Not even communists would search for Kaiser's photos in regular houses. But I think Franz Josef had such a good opinion in Poland so probably not even hardcore communists would be really mad about that.
>>214779887Well the Czechoslovak, Hungarian and Yugoslav authorities suppressed anything pro monarchist aswell, idk how USSR handled its part i just know Archduke Vasyl Vyshyvanyi is popular there, do poles remember anything about Archduke Karl Stephan or Cyril-Methodius?
>>214779996>suppressed anything pro monarchist aswell,That's the matter of comparison I guess. For them Austria was the worst, because if was their only occupant. For us, Austria was the best out of 3 empires so people just see it differently. When 2 guys keep beating you, then the third guy who simply ignores you is already your friend.>Archduke Karl StephanYes, he's known as a Polish patriot and the town of Żywiec where he resided boasts about him I guess. Generally the Polish part of the House of Habsburgs has a very good opinion in Poland, they assimilated and saw themselves as Poles or at least showed loyalty to Poland. Which was in stark contrast to whatever Prussian/German nobility that lived in Poland, who were overwhelmingly against the Polish state and low-key supported Nazis in the interwar period and then already openly after 1939.
>>214779182a piece of shit
>>214779620Kek there were a couple of regions were they got most of their taxes from. I think Northern Italy and Czechoslovakia
>>214780079>Archduke Karl StephanAlso, fun fact is that he was one of the candidates to the throne of the Central Powers-formed Kingdom of Poland in 1916 but Berlin rejected him because they were afraid he would be more loyal to Poles than to Germans
>>214780091In the end everyone and their mother rebelled except for austrians and yugos, who fucked each other soon after after being parasitoids to all the other peoples
>>214780103>and CzechoslovakiaJust Czechia. Slovakia was part of Hungary and it was very rural and poor
>>214780130I think back then they had an important coal and iron industry
>>214780126>except for austriansUhhh they actually rebelled too, why do you think they formed a republic?
>>214780140>important coal and iron industryThere were some mines there but it definitely couldn't compensate for general poverty and backwardness of the whole area. And these mines mattered more in the middle ages, in the industrial era they weren't already that important, if anything, Czech Silesia was the most important region since it had large coal deposits and that's why Czechia was rapidly industrializing.
>>214780103Czechia was one of he wealthiest regions of the empire next to Vienna since medieval times yeah, good bunch of austria proper was poorer than that>>214780114yeah
>>214780144They just wanted to kick the emperor out, because he destroyed the empire. He was a scapegoat for the eternal austrian
>>214780144it wasnt really a rebellion as it was opportunist politicians effectively couping the existing government
>>214780202Yes, so this is a rebellion, what else could they do, if they already were Austrians in Austria? Declare independence from Austria as Austrians?
This is the real GroBAustriVm
>>214780269should have been unified with Germany right then and there
>>214780256There actually was a proposal to change the name to Noricum/Norican Republic deeming "Austria/Österreich" as "too monarchist">>214780269honestly its good we didnt have to deal with sudeten, they were largely pro-greater germany, Austria as is had enough to deal with between the socialist and conservative camps and the smaller pro german and agricultural parties
>>214780310It was banned.
>>214780343>honestly its good we didnt have to deal with sudetenTbh I'm curious how they thought that would work, especially that Czechoslovakia would surely impose road blockades through their territory. So Brno would be like west Berlin in the cold war, a city under permanent siege
>>214780343>they were largely pro-greater germany,Well, I guess they were more protestant than catholic? Was their dialect also more similar to that from Germany rather than from Austria?
>>214780343>Norican Republicyou missed a bullet
>>214780269Sudetenland, mein Heimatland, wo die Wiege meine Ahnen stand.Or something.
>>214780389Austria didnt have the capablities to hold it anyway, the troops were sewn across half of europe and had to march back home, also in the peace treaty austria has gotten very severe limits on its army, no air force etc, next to that there was no money anyway, there were local fights on the southern and eastern border between the newly-formed yugoslavian and hungarian armies against austrian militia, which ended up with austria saving some territory>>214780409depends, i think the southern ones are more austrian/bavarian and the northern ones saxon descendant, idk about their dialect, thats extinct anyway now, religion was catholic, protestant and some jews were counted too
>>214780481Well, they had their reasons to love it. Sudetenland is really beautiful, nature itself does enough of a job but there are also stunningly pretty cities like Karlove Vary
>>214780480its the name of the celtic Kingdom of Noricum, and later the roman province in what is now austrian territory. Idk how thats "less monarchist" somehow
>>214780498>hungarian armies against austrian militia, which ended up with austria saving some territoryI find it funny that Austria actually gained territory from Hungary in Trianon. Literally as if the whole world teamed up against Hungarians to humiliate them as much as possible.
>>214780543Its still the poorest area of modern austria nowdays, but yeah its because the locals spoke german and croatian, the hungarians saved the local town of sopron though
>>214780565>Its still the poorest area of modern austria nowdays,What about that part that was occupied by the USSR in 1945-55? Are results of this occupation still visible to this day?
>>214780543The area was fully German though so it was fair.
>>214780579not really, lower austria always was a agrarian province, the northern part of upper austria is barely settled in comparison to the rest, burgenland is said poorest region. There was Stalin Square and such at the time but quickly were gone when the allies also left, some old people speak some russian though, also theres the soviet monument in Vienna. Fun fact only soviets out of the allies have a monument in austria
>>214780676should post a map too ig
Fuck HungaryI wish Austria had destroyed Frederick II I wish Austria had destroyed Bismarck
>>214780701Interesting why the Soviets did not intend to create the state of East Austria and also keep Vienna divided like Berlin. Maybe they thought this state would be too small and not economically sustainable
>>214779182No refunds.
>>214779254it didn't collapse it got butchered after losing ww1 by nationalist chuds that hate diversity
>>214779182Globo: :(Proto-Globo: :)
>>214781053yeah it defenitly wouldnt be, most industry was taken to the USSR, and the east wasnt particularly industralized except Vienna, and in the end a neutral Austria between NATO and the East was far more benefitial to them than a small rump puppet that would be dependant for everything on the USSR, and a western NATO backed austria that would allow a germany-italy connection
>>214781053That monument was defiled a couple times especially in the recent years and Russia was way more butthurt about it than you'd expect kek
>>214781615whats also interesting to me, unlike in germany, here you hear the occasional positive story about the russians during the time, most is still negative with the looting etc, a few officers also returning stuff stolen from civiliansSome soviet soldiers also were punished because when they saw vienna they began to question the communist system
I was never a fan of the name desu.
>>214781790May grandma used to tell stories about the soviets, apparently they were lucky becausr our house is quite big so a couple officers were temporarily living there protecting them from the other Soviets. They were quite cultured, one if them played thevpuano that's still stabding in the house. I think he was a descendant of old Russian nobility.
>>214781888overall it seems officers were quite alright
>>214781601>catholic globoja :)
>>214782022reminds me of something i read about ww1 once somewhere, but i dont remember where.The russian cavalry (cossacks?) were very brutal, and once the infantry came, especially officers calmed the situation and protected the POWs
>>214782173Did the Russian army reach Austria in WW1? I thought they only seized Galicia for a while
>>214782205only galicia yes, but of course many austrians fought there in the imperial army
>>214781232Yet Austria occupied all of Serbia and defended its border against Italy and RussiaIts not fair bros
>>214782254recently i was visiting a graveyard and saw some old graves dating to ww1, some locals fell in modern moldova and ukraine there
>>214781601Jewish Empire :(Roman Empire :)
>>214782275>>214782288you cant sage in all fields anymore, boy
>>214782281I guess it would feel extremely weird to a modern Austrian person if he accidentally found himself somewhere in deep Ukraine or Bosnia and thought>Just 100 years ago it was Austria here...
>>214780310Germany is scarred by Prussian hyperautism to this day, maybe if Germany was united under someone else
>>214782331>Germany is scarred by Prussian hyperautism to this dayI don't think so, after WW2 Germany was mostly ruled by Rhinelanders, actual Prussians were left behind the iron curtain
>>214782317dont think it´d be weird, we have a army mission in bosnia nowdays, many yugos live here, now a lot of ukrainians are here too and well, we used to be a empire stretching from switzerland to ukraine
>>214782428if anything its more of a new phenomenon we dont have contact with other parts of europe as we more or less did our entire existance since the roman empire, followed by HRE, Austrian Empire, AH
>>214782428Yes but I guess modern young Austrians don't really feel that, for them Austria is just a small, homogenous, mountainous Germanic country so I'm pretty sure it would be some kind of shock to realize that this flat place filled with Slavs was just a regular part of Austria not so long time ago
>>214782505yeah, many austrians dont really care for that, as were doing pretty well as we are, though its not really a shock, many austrians have names like Horvath, Jelinek, or germanized slavic names so if they talked to their grandparents they probably know theres some eastern or balkan in themt. germanized latin profession name
I'm currently reading this (thats why I made the thread desu)
>>214782712didnt read it yet, but interesting author, ukrainian jew that loved catholicism and the habsburg empire
I'm 75% Austro Hungarian and today I'm gonna have schnitzchel for dinner
Yugoslavia was over 9000 times better than that abomination
>>214783549Redditors will start chimping out on this post, watch.
>>214783609"The worst blemish on the record of the Austrian administration in Bosnia-Herzegovina was the appallingly low rate of literacy and school attendance, which was worse even than Serbia’s.37 But this was not the consequence of an Austrian policy of mass stultification. The Austrians built primary schools – nearly 200 of them – not to mention three high schools, a teacher training college and a technical institute. It was not a stellar effort, but it was not outright neglect either. The problem lay partly in getting peasants to send their children to school.38 Only in 1909, after the formal annexation of the provinces, was compulsory primary education introduced" - The Sleepwalkers, Christopher ClarkTldr: Not Austria's fault. Mountain sheepshaggers just didn't want to send their kids to school.And the Kingdom of Serbia had a similarly awful rate of literacy at the time so what's your point?
>>214783857My point is that the Reddit empire was not as good as it's claimed xD.Most of the Balkans started getting developed only with Kingdom and commie Yugoslavia, and that's a fact.Croats literally used to have famines, just as anybody else, despite being in the sphere of Austrians and/or Magyars for a very long time.Austrians were better than Turks, but still bad.
>>214783857Why would peasants need to go to school?
>>214784012>My point is that the Reddit empire was not as good as it's claimed xD.Bosnia was only annexed into the empire in 1908, before that it was unstable military occupation only. You can't expect even Germans to be able to fix 500 years of Turkish rule just in 6 years.
>>214784135>BosniaWho talked about solely Bosnia.
>>214784179Croatia and Vojvodina had decent literacy rates and they weren't even part of Austria but Hungary
>>214784203So did most of Serbia during Yugoslav times for example. It has little to do with Austria.>inb4 that mapThe colour coding is ass, it's not a big difference. And consider how many male Serbs died in WW1. Very important. Women were not sent to schools.
I'm currently reading this and I'm 3D printing an Austrian army for Napoleonic wargamingI've got German line infantry, Jaegers, Carinthian Landwehr and Chevaulegers so far
>>214784179>Galiciaunder autonomous govenrnment and admitedly not cared for by the imperial govenrment until much later>Hungary autonomous>VeniceOnly part of the Empire since the end of Napoleonic wars>Croatiamilitary controlled or dalmatian fishermen, still has a higher literacy rate than serbia decades later in yugoslavia with the exceptions of regions that were part of AH
>>214784382And here is le map I spoke about with the awful colour coding.
Also, the point is, it's the Turks that were the reason of decadence, the positives had little to do with your presence.Slavs did more in both Yugoslavias in the Balkans. Even in Slovenia.
>>214784382Serbs were 30 - 50% of the population in the red parts of Croatia. Admittedly, they were mostly sheepherders or in the military.
>>214784399>awful color coding is when it disagrees with me
>>214784422yeah, there were a few decent serbs in the army, most of which were outcast by yugoslavia or not even allowed to return, tito too initially fought against the serbs before being promoted and sent to the east
>>214784033This is a question that some Sai'idi goatfuckers ask here and the answer is so those peasant children can stop being peasants. A country's workforce gradually abandons agriculture as the primary employer when the country starts developing because machines (technology, which requires an education to use and maintain) can do the relatively simple physical work of hundreds of farmers without needing a break, which means those farmers need new jobs preferably ones that aren't related to physical labor that machines can very easily replace, which means getting an education. Education starts this positive feedback loop where someone gets educated and makes machines that make physical laborers obsolete so they also need to get educated and when they do they make even more machines that make everything else more efficient. Rinse and repeat until your QoL explodes skyrockets like in the Industrial Age until you've improved most things with machines and now need to transition to a new field (services) instead of relying on industry.
>>214784285What made you choose Austrian army?
>>214784845They have a lot of variety with the landwehr, grenzers, german and hungarian troopsAlso the hats they wore looked cool
Rest in piss lmao
>>214785279Novi Sad would be now a first world city with average wage 3000 euros/mo, functional sewage system, democratic government and a NOT collapsed train station building. Harsh but true.
>>214785230I'd go basic bitch route and pick France because Napoleon was based
>>214785418NATO bombed Novi Sad the most for some reason xD.Believe me there are many chetniks here now.>>214784446Will you take booster shot next year too?
>>214785230I like the white uniforms desu
>>214784808there is mechanized agriculture, don't need a school for it either
>>214785230https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/Austria/ArmyStudy/c_AustrianArmyIntro.htmlheres some great info if youre looking for anythingAlso if youre ever in austria youd probably enjoy the Army Historical Museum with pieces like picrel, Uniform of Emperor Franz I>>214785418serbs are seething for centuries about anything, whatever
>>214786085What does NATO have to do with Austria?
>>214785640I am a passionate Francophile and admirer of Napoleon but I chose to start with the Austrians first, French will be nextNapoleon is in my opinion the greatest man of all time>>214786142Me tooApparently they'd get extremely dirty very quickly and all maintained the colour by rubbing them constantly with chalk though>>214786219Do people care at all about the period in Austria?
>>214786085>it's da ottomans fault>it's da Austrians fault >it's da Italians fault >it's da NATOs fault brown mindset
>>214786277The west has worked since the fall of the Atlantis against the Serbs.
>>214786311if youre into history then yeah, otherwise most people rather care about Franz Joseph or Maria Theresia, arguably the most known ones
>>214786351its true, im currently coordinating protests against vucic to end serbia
>>214786345Well don't wonder why we don't have Reddit opinions and like based countries like Russia.
>>214786399I am protesting against Vucic though.
Anyone here read Stefan Zweig?
>>214786436youre my pawn to end serbia
>>214786471If you mail me 10k euros I will be the biggest Austrian shill.While I am a chetnik if someone from this thread were to wire me a lot of money I'd be willing to ditch my ideals. 10k is not much but demanding more seems unrealistic.
The only regrettable thing about the dissolution of the austro-hungarian empire is that Hungary wasnt partitioned further
>>214786741Why? That means each country would just have more angry contrarians.I think 2006 borders of Balkans are good.
>>214786768Hmm well desu if we just gave all of the hungarian land left to Slovakia id be happy.No Fagyars here, no annoying northern neighbour, and the Turkic Slovaks reunite with the people they stole "their culture" from
>>214783609bullshit map
>>214787015Idk I don't care much about Hungarians. Considering our 90s issues they're alright.>historyHistorically they were retards but at some point people have to move on. If we don't have much issues now let's not dig them up.
>>214787030Years are different, downvoted.
>>214787122>Years are differentMark me down for can't read or write
>>214787338We need a modern literacy map.Btw. It is not the case that our countries now are 100% literate. It is not just reading and writing, I know from school how many people cannot extract information from text or understand context. This is why most of the time I argue seriously on the internet it is like talking to a monkey smashing keyboard.
>>214787607I wonder what counted as being literate in the old days. Just being able to write your name? I need to look it up.I know about some literacy tests Americans had (in 20th or 19th century) and honestly I had to turn on my brain to do them. They were also logic tests. I struggled with one question.
>>214786436I support Vucic
>>214787735Jel si ti njegov batinas patuljko?
>>214787801Pitao sam studente ko bi im bio bolji nego Vucic i kad su mi rekli Seselj odmah sam poceo navijati za SNS/NPZD
>>214779182Genuinely how did we fumble her this bad bros...
>>214779182Why do people get their dicks so hard over Austria-Hungary? It was a shit tier empire that cocked up everything in touched in WW1. Also Hungarians were jobbers.
>>214787961Seselj ti je Vuckov kum.
>>214788053Wilson did
