would you rather live in an oldschool commieblock or their modern counterpart?
>>215324077Would you rather live here instead?
>>215324077this is probably some outer suburb of current Spb so most likely Germans occupied this piece of land in 1943, insane to think how far Germans managed to get
>>215325553Not insane, back then Nazi Germany used to be the richest country with the largest army.
>>215324077Oldschool, newblocks are packed in too close and in shitty locations with bad acess
>>215325800
>>215324077russians for some reason don't renovate their commieblocksprobably they don't feel a need for that since at least here renovation is usually combined with insulation because 70s panel housing has very poor thermal insulation, but in Russia it doesn't matter because gas and heating are almost for freebut at the end, their commieblocks just look even uglier and more repulsive than anywhere else
>>215324077New. Here is two right next to each other. It is not even a comparison
>>215326370
>>215326006they don't renovate their commiblocks because they have max 10-20 years left kruschovkas are already getting demolished
>>215326396Here is another example
>>215325352the issue is the lack of nature all aroundI could handle living in a commie block if there's plenty of nature around it.
>>215324077IDK which is which. I prefer the bottom one. it has nature around it. top one is a canyon of death.
>>215324077I've stayed in Lütten Klein (commieblock settlement for the city of Rostock which was built between 1965 and 1975) for a vacation and it was peak comfy. Wide sidewalks, wide roads, plenty of parking space. Very good public transport. And of course very empty. >>215325800This. Say what you want but the early commieblocks were peak (for a brief moment in time).
>>215326419>because they have max 10-20 years left why would they? in Poland the commieblocks are estimated to survive even the next 100 years without a problem, most likely the currently built housing will have collapsed before the first commieblock ever will. I think Russia used the same technology like here so why would it be any different there?
>>215324077I don't want to live in an apartment. Urbanists can shill as much as they want about muh efficiency but apparemment just havt too much cons ( noise, quality of neighbors, lack of space, low mobility, etc ..)Dense Detached housing is superior especially if done with mixed zoning.
>>215324077RussiaModern easily, atleast the kitchen isn't 6 meters and electric grid can accommodate energy consumption
And interestingly enough, the GDR encouraged the development of "local" commieblock styles. Pic rel was inspired by the brick buildings of the hanseatic times.
neither
>>215326617we had several examples too, though they were very rare (sadly)https://www.whitemad.pl/osiedle-nad-jamna-w-mikolowie-ponadczasowe-dzielo-polskiego-gaudiego/
>>215326516Kruschovkas were build with multiple families sharing the same abthroom and kitchen, nobody wants to live like that and it isn't that easy to add bathrrom and kitchen to apartment that didn't have those.
>>215326740Nice. But i'm not a fan of the slightly orange sheet metal roofs.
>>215324077>>215325800oldschool commieblocks have much better district planning (i.e. they actually have district planning while new ones are just densitymaxxed), but the buildings themselves are absolutely horridwhy can't we have nice clean modern capitalistbloxx with khruschevka style neighborhood layout (lots of green space, good public transit access, local stores and schools and shit)?
>>215325800see >>215327268we need old style layout with buildings that aren't rotted out and made of cardboard
>>215327268A small yard, forest park nearby and some cafes is more than enough
New blocks are better in every single way, from underground parking to cleanliness, maintenance
>>215326466I agree with this
>>215326370The one on the right hand side is ironically more brutalistic than the originally brutalist one. I personally can't grasp what it is that made Eastern Europeans prefer soulless brutalism (modern) as an alternative to the already existing mass architecture done in bad taste. Not only that, but most of the new apartments in these buildings have godawful stock furniture unless you make your own adjustments. Slabs of sandstone, travertine, mock marble everywhere, no carpets whatsoever, open concept kitchen-living room. Grim living in an apartment that looks like the waiting room to a dental clinic.
>>215327736No it is not. Being cube shaped does not make something brutalist. > I personally can't grasp what it is that made Eastern Europeans prefer soulless brutalism (modern)Why pretend it is just Eastern Europeans? Literally everyone in the world outside a few contrarian communists will agree that commie blocks look grim and depressing, there is a reason why in wealthier countries they had the tendency of becoming ghettos.
>>215324077i would rather not live at all
>>215327197it's supposed to mimic the red roofs typical for medieval buildingsmaybe it even was red but just faded
>>215324077It's not just commie blocks that do this, but "commie blocks" too. Newbuilts are always so close to each other, there's no room to breathe... Pic rel is what they're like in Finland. This area makes me want to vomit every time I have to go through it. I live in a luxury Finnish 60's "commie block" and it's not so bad, tons of nature around.
>>215327442Every city really does look the same these days.
>>215327397>>215327442that looks absolutely horrendous
>>215327856Commieblocks first appeared as a solution to fast urbanization in the west, and eastoids imported them, tweaking them in the process, cutting corners to lower material costs. Now they do the same with the nu brutalism. Form wise they exist in the west, but without the cardboard walls, you can't hear your neighbor taking a leak, there are better water pumps to allow decent pressure even for the upper floors and aren't furnished like a place you'd expect a porno to be shot.
>>215328149
>>215327268>why can't we have nice clean modern capitalistbloxx with khruschevka style neighborhood layoutBecause the only thing that matters is the return on investment, and therefore denser construction equals means more flats and more money. One good things that commies did was an actual urban planning, but in "free" Poland we got rid of that totalitarian rules.Those modern blocks are like cancer spreading throughout cities.
>>215328149>Commieblocks first appeared as a solution to fast urbanization in the westThey were never prominent part of Western city landscapes like in Eastern Europe>nu brutalismGoogle what brutalism is, modern apartments are not brutalist. Why would they be? I don't understand.>Form wise they exist in the west, but without the cardboard wallsWhat cardboard? It is reinforced concrete. Are the walls thicker in the Western counterpart? Are they larger on average? Maybe, probably. But they are a tiny part of the landscape unlike in here
>>215328149>fast urbanizationThey artificially propped up a bunch of cities because of Stalin's obsession with the heavy industry so the USSR could make 2000 tanks a year but the top 5% who could afford had to wait 4 years for a cheap car based on a French licenseEastern Europe is full of these "cities" that were never meant to be this large. Then when Stalin's obsession have gone bankrupt and now these cities are industrial shitholes with every valuable space taken up by commie blocks that are half empty. "Soviet urban planning" my ass, they created entire centered around one specific thing from jobs to education and now they are all ghettoes
>>215327268>why can't we have nice clean modern capitalistbloxx with khruschevka style neighborhood layout (lots of green space, good public transit access, local stores and schools and shit)?Space is money. But at least all new housing developments have mixed usages planned into them. >>215327856>there is a reason why in wealthier countries they had the tendency of becoming ghettos.Because ghetto people are being cramped into them. Practically all housing complexex are filled with migrants or the lowest of the low from the native population.>>215327921I see. And the ones in Rostock have those sheet metal roofs as well, as I just found out. This wasn't really visable from the street.But there is also a larger "hanseatic commieblock" that has roof tiles.
>>215324077oldschool look comfy
>>215328258>They were never prominent part of Western city landscapes like in Eastern EuropeWell they were deliberately placed outside of the "old growth" cities. And even my hometown of less than 20.000 people has a few commieblocks.
>>215327397>be child>parents move into pidorashka capitalistbloxx>see the sun 3 times while growing upgg no remeanwhile 60s era khrushchevka hoods are peak comfy in late spring and early summer
>>215328618>but the top 5% who could afford had to wait 4 years for a cheap car based on a French licensenot gonna defend commies but i don't think nowadays you could afford a new car with an average eastern European salary, just after 4 years of saving money
>>215329463Kek how old are you? It was not 4 years of saving up, it was 4 years of waiting after you made the order and paid. Few could afford cars
This is a great thread. It’s nice to see so many countries having an intelligent discussion about something for once.
>>215329460there's plenty of sun most of the day and the bank of the river is empty, dumb ass pigger shit
>>215329460commieblocks were comfy back then because they had strong communities built within them, all the neighbors knew each other, kids would play together and so on, that added a lot of positive vibe into the placenowadays the society is atomized, no one cares about anyone else and knows everyone, neighbors can live for 10 years next to each other and never have a conversation or not even know each other's namesso the biggest advantage of life in commieblock (sense of community) is lost.
>>215329492>it was 4 years of waiting after you made the order and paidyeah but still it was more or less affordable, since pretty much every average family finally got a new car, buying used cars was uncommonnowadays it's the other way round, hardly any eastoid buys a new car
>>215327442where is the SUN? where are the TREES?
>>215329529sashenka do you really live in a chicken coop like the one you posted? is this why you are so angry all the time?
>>215329360Is that East Germany? But anyway I did not mean landscape in a literal sense. In Hungary around 20% of the population live in commie blocks. It is hard to tell because there are a lot of empty apartments in the country and a lot of these neighborhoods are made up entirely of retired people in cities that are depopulating so it is hard to tell but its around 20% probably. In Western European countries there are a couple of these projects that resemble commie blocks, it is absolutely marginal
>>215329529now that you mention it, indeed the piggies were better at this whole ussr thing than you ever were
>>215329574No it was not affordable at all, there were less than 100 cars per 100k people what are you talking about?
>>215329574you are a retarded zoomercars were never more easily available than todaylook at some old photos and you will see how empty the streets were back in commie times, that's because almost nobody had a car
eastern European socialism wouldn't be even that bad if only it was planned and executed by Germans and not by Russianshad Russians toned down their sense of pride and moved the management centre from Moscow to East Berlin, we would probably still happily live in a more or less efficient socialist system from the Elbe to the Pacific Ocean
>>215329599back in the 50s and 60s urban planners seemed to have understood that you need to give the proles plenty of sun, trees and space, that will keep them happy and productivesadly district planning is now forbidden archeotech, we must densitymaxx at all cost
>>215329661>>215329665I meant NEW carsobviously nowadays the car ownership rate is much higher overall but the vast majority are used cars
>>215329661I meant 100 per 1000 peopleHeres a pic. Fun fact: USA had more cars per 1000 by the 1930s than Hungary in 1990. Absolute mog
>>215329720>Heres a pic. Fun fact: USA had more cars per 1000 by the 1930s than Hungary in 1990. Absolute mogi wouldn't be surprised if the 1930s USA had more cars per capita than some western Euro countries in 1990 too, that really means nothing
>>215329678given the propensity of the Germans to go overboard with everything and how it looked in practice in the DDR, I very much doubt this.the real forbidden lore is that everything should've been given to Tito.
>>215329711nobody had used cars back then because there were not available, you utter retardalso today a 25 years old Fiat Panda is higher quality, more reliable and way more affordable than new cars back in those days
>>215329761the state of DDR doesn't show us how we would fare under german management since DDR was just straight out robbed by Moscow, also Moscow would issue some main economic directives, and Germans had little to say about their own countryGermans had very narrow autonomy yet they still managed to build the most developed country in the eastern bloc
>>215329792>nobody had used cars back then because there were not available, you utter retardsure, because obviously we didn't produce enough cars yet to have a large used car marketbut the point is that we should compare apples to appleswhen we compare purchasing power of an average eastern European family in relation to NEW cars in 1980 and 2025, it is probably more or less similar - you needed to save up money for a new car for as long as you have to do it now.
>>215329837they started off with the most developed country by far
>>215329895wouldn't agree, east Germany was turned into rubble in WW2 and a lot of their "human capital" was killed, they largely started from the scratch
>>215329880>it is probably more or less similar - you needed to save up money for a new car for as long as you have to do it now.no
>>215329711I doubt they were more affordable but this is a good example of why calculating inflation is not very useful: technological advancement. It is like comparing a phone from the early 2000s to an iPhone 17 Pro whatever. The products have changed a lot since then
>>215329761>the real forbidden lore is that everything should've been given to Tito.Yugoslavia was only relatively wealthier not because of any innate Yugoslav qualities but simply because the west propped their economy up as they hoped they could get Tito on their sideif all of eastern Europe was ruled by Tito, the west wouldn't have any reason to pump money into that black hole
>>215329915Hardly. They still had tens of millions of highly skilled and educated Germans to work with, as well as established companies with centuries of institutional know-how, even if the immediate postwar years were tumultuous. many famous companies, like Zeiss, had parts of them operating in the east throughout the communist period.
>>215329999obviously a new car in 1980 and 2025 is something different but still if we want to compare living standards across such a long timespan we have to use certain generalizationwhat matters is how much money we needed to achieve the same level of "happiness" for each period of time, and obviously in 1980 an average family had the same level of happiness with a new Lada that a family in 2025 has with a new Toyota Corolla. Then it becomes comparable.
>>215329999It's also worth noting that a "new" Lada in the 1980s was still the same junker Fiat 124 from the 60s
>>215330134if Lada was really that bad, Finns wouldn't have bought it like crazy
>>215329534This. Desocialisation is one hell of a drug. And it's not that recent of a phenomenon either in the west. Already in 1965 a west german psychologist lamented the increasing social isolation that developed after WW2. First the larger community was abandoned for the nuclear family. Now the nuclear family gets abandoned for the internet.>>215329623The pic I've posted is from the city of Bremen. And my hometown is located somewhere in the Rhineland. >In Hungary around 20% of the population live in commie blocks.While the number of those large housing complexes is fewer in West Germany, they still exist and have a large cultural impact, due to often being associated with the extreme low class and crime.There is also no survey done on how many large housing complexes exist here too. But most large cities has at least one of them.
>>215330106random result after few seconds of googling>Ponieważ Fiat 126P kosztował w 1977 roku ok. 80 tys. zł, poza talonem trzeba było mieć ogromne wręcz oszczędności. W tym roku zarabiało się w Polsce Gierkowej przeciętnie ok. 5 tys. zł. Odkładając jedną pensję miesięcznie, uzbierałoby się na „Malucha” już po 16 miesiącach!so assuming this is right, a new car was the equivalent of 16 salaries today's shittiest cheapest new car is dacia sandero for about 7 average salaries, meanwhile for 16 salaries you can get a decent economic car like Toyota Corolla or Hyundai Tucson
>>215330155>due to often being associated with the extreme low class and crime.i still cannot understand this firstie paradox so your commieblock are supposedly the worst crime-ridden ghettos where insane things take place yet when you look at them they resemble literal disneylands - everything is perfectly clean and freshly renovated, the lawns are well groomed with not a single piece of trash around etcmeanwhile in eastern Europe the commieblocks house all social classes, it's not even uncommon to have university professors living there, yet they just look like shit comparing to western "ghettos"
I think i would rather live in a tent or a trailer than an apartment. I like to be alone and not "alone".
>>215330221>today's shittiest cheapest new car is dacia sandero for about 7 average salariesnew sandero costs 15k eur in Poland (cheapest version) and most people make like 1k so it's around 15 months, same like back then
>>215327397Is this your balcony?
>>215330310>>215330221and still, even if you were right, it would mean that 50 years of constant progress, technological, economic etc., gave us barely a slightly better car for the same moneythat doesn't really feel that great when you think how capitalism was supposed to outpace socialism by light years, that's what they told us in 1990
>>2153303101k euro is not even minimal salary lol
>>215330382i mean net wage, it's around 1k eur nowin communism there were no taxes so 5k PLN average wage was obviously 5k netalso in communism income gap was much smaller than now so the average wage was real AVERAGE, not like today so someone makes 10k and someone makes 700eur and then we get some hefty "average"
>>215330380if you think that new dacia sandero is only "slightly" better than 1980s fiat 126p then you are obviously too young to have ever seen the latterdo you even have a drivers license?
>>215330432dude, that's thanks to technological development, not economic changeif we still had socialism, the state-produced cars would also be much more technologically advanced than in 1980
>>215330419xD now you're trolling or just some tankie leftard, not gonna respond to you any more
>>215330464did i say anything untrue? you mean there is no large income gap now or what?
>>215330228Because large amounts of money are being invested to turn those areas around. And still - pic rel is from a few months ago from a large housing complex in the city I currently live in. And due to socioeconomic factors it is also an area high in crime - sometimes undeserved as drug dealers specifically seek out this area to conduct their business all because a "gangsta rapper" who grew up there made music about how "hard" this place supposedly is.
>>215330148it's not terrible, it's an ok cheap sedan for the 1960s
>>215330547>Germans think some excessive trash near garbage bins before the garbage collecting truck arrives is the end of the world and it's worth taking photos and post them all over the internethow good you have there, i can't even imagine that lolsuch a picture wouldn't make anyone here raise his eyebrow because it's pretty much an everyday situation
>>215330733>>215330148for comparison, if I could walk into a Toyota dealership right now and buy a newly made 2000 Camry for $2000 I'd take it over any modern car, the value for money would be totally there. it was probably similar with subsidized Lada imports in Finland. it might be a 1966 pattern Fiat 124 but it's newly made and cheap so why not
>>215330861>if I could walk into a Toyota dealership right now and buy a newly made 2000 Camry for $2000 I'd take it over any modern car, the value for money would be totally there.nah, the cost of production alone, workforce etc., would make it way more expensive than 2k, even without all the modern technological solutions. I think you overestimate the impact of hi-tech features on the price of modern cars, still the biggest share of the cost is simply making the steel box, which is the same for any car from any possible era, adding some fancy stuff inside is a minor part of it
>>215331033Prices of soviet goods were always in made up funny money
>>215330755Elevators don't get repaired. Trash doesn't get picked up (trash also gets dumped into the courtyards of their blocks and the nearby forests, where it isn't collected), mold spreads through some blocks. People use the public spaces for open drug consumption. And the real estate owners do nothing. Do you want to live there?
>>215330228>all social classes>university professorswhat social class do you think university professors belong to?(it's proles)
>>215331249>Do you want to live there?as if there weren't thousands of Poles living in Germanblocks together with Arabs and Somalisfor a reason>>215331306economic class =/= social classuniversity professors should be the ones to care so even if everyone around is poor, they at least act like human beings and don't throw litter around
>>215325352is it where they filmed the only popular indog movie, The Raid?
>>215331487>they at least act like human beings and don't throw litter aroundclearly you don't know enough university professors.
>>215324077oldschool, the parking is appealing
>>215332432sounds bitter as if you failed your classes
>>215333934I fail people in classes.
bump
>>215324077probably the new apartments, since i never leave the house
