Did you know Islam doesn't have things called:>Mosque>Crescent symbolism>Taqiyah(cap) and the other headwear for men>Shrine>Graves bigger and taller than ground level>Any other holiday to celebrate other than Ramadan and EidThere is not a single text in Quran and hadeeths about them. These things probably stick to Islamic world during late Umayyad and the Abbasid era. And they probably learned all of that from Eastern Romans, Sassanids and Turks.
>Turks.lol turks had no culture to steal things from
>>215364055The original symbol for Christianity was a fish (ἸΧΘΥΣ), it wasn't until much later that Christians began to adopt the cross as their chief symbol (which is honestly kind of creepy if you start to think about it).
>>215364246I know entire cross symbolism is made up by who corrupted Christianity. But is there any mention to that fish symbol in the Christian texts like "my followers must use that symbol"?
>>215364435It's impossible to say exactly but most scholars are pretty sure it originated in the 2nd century AD as a means to discreetly identify as Christian at a time when Romans were increasingly antagonistic towards their cult.Ι – Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous) – “Jesus”Χ – Χριστός (Christos) – “Christ”Θ – Θεοῦ (Theou) – “of God”Υ – Υἱός (Huios) – “Son”Σ – Σωτήρ (Sōtēr) – “Savior”
>>215364495>It's impossible to say exactly but most scholars are pretty sure it originated in the 2nd century AD So it's also made up thing years later after Jesus. Or simply used to know each other like as a cryptic symbol, not as a "holy symbol" that resembles religion.
>>215364895So too is the cross but most Christians still treat that as an idol to worship anyway.
>>215364055turkic pipos ruin islam image's forever with their hadith and ottoman shit
>>215364246>Means of salvation is creepy>>215365238Haddith come long before turks come on the scene.
>>215365683Choosing the instrument by which your central prophet was violently executed as the centerpiece of your faith is batshit and the only reason you think differently is because you're so accustomed to it.
>>215365009>most Christians still treat that as an idol to worship anywayIdol worshipping makes them heretics. That is what we believe in Islam, Christianity is completely corrupted and all of the followers went wrong way.>>215365683It is a made up symbol after so many years later of Jesus's era and you believe it is a holy symbol. There is no text about holiness of cross symbol in Christianity.
>>215366000>prophetThat would be Islam that thinks that. >>215366327Not so much made up when it's based on a central event. Very different from the crescent and the star.
>>215366527It's still made up.
>>2153642461) the crucifixion is a central theme in the New Testament, particularly the Gospel where it is the culmination of the narrative2) earliest usage as a community symbol is dated to the 2nd century AD, arising a little earlier so in the first 100 years or so3) you're probably a muslim, did you know the qibla changed more than a decade after momo founded islam? Did you know the whole Jerusalem being holy to you guys due to isra and miraj was smoked up in the 9th century?
>>215364435>muzzie has to blame Paul for "corrupting" Christianity
>>215365009>most Christians still treat that as an idol to worship anywayPeople would take muzzrats more seriously if you didn't make up lies about others.Then again, the quran itself makes false allegations since it isn't from god but from the mind of a deranged and degenerate false prophet
>>215367331>>215367373>>215367444Post a single text from the bible about usage of cross symbol as official Christian symbol.
>>215366327>There is no text about holiness of cross symbol in Christianity.One of the proto-shahadas precisely mentions the Crucifixion, because it is the key event of the New Testament narrative.
>>215366000>central prophetWe're not muslims calling everyone a prophet (kek 100k prophets).He is God.
>>215367495Post me the exact sunni shahada, all together word for word in the quran in a single aya, not stitched from two or more. Not in parts.I too can come up with absurd criteria (I am happy to let muzzies have their shahada as I'm not so retardedly inbred I can't see where it comes from).
>>215367551Semantics, the point about it being creepy to use the symbol of the instrument that killed your "God" (think about how ridiculous that sounds) still stands.
>>215367651That is the muslim point of view. From the Christian point-of-view it is the most beautiful rescue story of a God that so loved the world He gave Himself for us.I know the idea of a loving, personal God is unfathomable for muslims, where you god is cruel, distant, vindictive, spiteful and basically rules you through fear - as Hamza Tzortzis himself even confessed to finding this difficult to handle. >>215367495And again, just give at least ONE of the Gospels a read, though ideally John and Mark. Cross symbolism and the importance of the Crucifixion is hard to miss.
>>215367495>>215367625>>215367835And this is what pisses me off about muzzies the most when you yap about Christianity. I criticize islam AFTER reading tafsirs from the big mufassirun like ibn kathir, qurtubi, al-tabari, etc., to know your point-of-view. Not regurgitate some shitty biased BS I heard from a dawahnigger.
>>215367625>all together word for word in the quran in a single aya,Why should it be in a single aya? It is exactly mentioned in 37:35 and 48:29. And there is bunch of hadeeths about that.But there aren't single text in the Bible about using Cross as the symbol of Christianity. We are talking about that. Post it.
>>215364435>>215364246>>215364495Thank you Shlomo Polanovich
>>215368054>runs from the challengeLol I know you stitch it together from two verses, I was giving you an impossible challenge with absurd criteria - exactly the same as you're doing. Did you not read the rest of the comment where I say I'm perfectly fine with muslims having the shahada?You need to be well within double digit IQ to not see the importance of the cross in Christianity, nor the Crucifixion.Like what's next, you're going to deny the New Testament doesn't include the Crucifixion event nor that it is central?
>>215368054Also you ummi, iqra! >>215367835
>>215368187Hmm ok. It says using Cross as a symbol exactly. But why it is not used till year 300?
>>2153683201) I don't see your logic of hatred of the cross and arbitrary time windows2) it was already common by the late 100s, as evidenced by early 200s documentary sources3) is it really so impossible for you to comprehend that the Crucifixion is one of the most important events in the New Testament?4) have you done even a cursory search through the New Testament for cross and Crucifixion references?
>>215368320Address:>>215367903>>215368140>>215368527You do know your scholars don't even deny the Crucifixion is in the Bible, they simply subscribe to the idea that someone else died in His place or that it "was made to look like a Crucifixion happened"?Heck, some even agreed the Crucifixion as per the Christian narrative happened, considering substitution theory blasphemous as it turns your allah into a deceiver.
>>215368527I don't see a reason using cross as a official symbol of Christianity if it isn't mentioned in the your "holy texts". But you posted that so >>215367835 I won't say anything about that. Seems like it is right using it Christian symbol because of that text.I created this thread for different reason. Look at OP post.
>>215368743All that being settled, yeah I do agree with the OP. Even Jerusalem being associated with isra and miraj wasn't the case until like the 9th century.That said, isn't there a thing in islam that what the majority believes is correct islam? I'll try and find the reference.
>>215368635I read before, If I remember right a traitor reported Jesus to authorities turned into Jesus's exact look by Allah and this reporter guy is crucifixed because everyone thought he is the Jesus. Before the crucifixion Jesus went to heavens.>>215368931Our first Qibla was the Jarusalem. Prophet changed it to Kabaa after one point.>isn't there a thing in islam that what the majority believes is correct islam?I never read similar thing like that. But I remember texts like most of people prone to hereticism, sins and false believes.
>>215366000>the central tenet of christianity is that jesus christ died for your sins>the illustration of this is the crucifix, which is stylized into the crossmakes sense to me
>>215369217>I read before, If I remember right a traitor reported Jesus to authorities turned into Jesus's exact look by Allah and this reporter guy is crucifixed because everyone thought he is the Jesus. Before the crucifixion Jesus went to heavensNo, the narration is actually terrible, as it has Jesus cowardly asking if someone will take His place on the cross and that in heaven he'll be rewarded. Pretty sure the common tafsirs of 4:157 have this story. Note, the New Testament has Jesus talking about His impending death and happily readying to lay down His life.>qiblaThe text says al aqsa, not Jerusalem; linking the two arose much later (at the time there was no mosque in Jerusalem, muslims didn't invade until after 636).It is often thought that linking the al-aqsa mosque to Jerusalem was an Umayyad thing, formalized when Bukhari and others compiled the major collections.
>>215369366Thing is there is strong hatred of the Cross in islam.Also, their version of the messiah will come and break the Cross and in some variations, slay the kafirs
>>215369217>>215369529Yep, here's the part I was telling you about
>>215369809>dude you'll look like me lol it's funny as fuck>then god made a big hole in the roof and sucked jesus up like an alien abduction also he was asleepholy fucking garbagetruly the mormonism of the 600's
spain flag is on fire>>215370081
>>215369529>No, the narration is actually terrible, as it has Jesus cowardly asking if someone will take His place on the cross and that in heaven he'll be rewarded. Pretty sure the common tafsirs of 4:157 have this story.I don't know it is true or not bu I don't think it is a cowardly thing even if it was true. Since he is a prophet and we should do what he says for religion including death.Al Aqsa is in Jarusalem though. We believe it is destroyed at least few times and built again after the last conquest. Similar to the Kabaa.>>215369809I read the other theory too that I told you before. There is no aya and hadeeth text exactly tells us who got crucifixed. Only thing we exactly believe that Jesus wasn't crucifixed. Anyway I'm going to sleep. Bye.>>215370688Lmao
>>215370632That's from ibn Kathir and yes it is a complete perversion of the Biblical Jesus who repeatedly stated His brave claim of willingly giving His life and did so after extreme torture. >Al Aqsa is in Jarusalem thoughThat arose later. As I explained, there was no mosque there until after 636 when the muslims invaded.There were myriad views on just where al-aqsa was, which only solidified into Jerusalem by the 9th century when Bukhari and others compiled their Hadith collections, following a tradition of slowly retconning al-aqsa to Jerusalem. Some suggest this was initially done by the Umayyads to have Jerusalem serve as a counterweight to mecca (recall the whole Zubayr stuff). Umar kicked off the construction of what you now call al-aqsa mosque, and abd al malik finished the project.
>>215370746Hmm, your comment got deleted >>215370900
>>215370688KEK wth? Well, we probably have some jeets in Spain
>>215369627Because we believe Christianity is corrupted. It is that simple.Some of the Protestant branches don't use cross aswell.>>215370900>That's from ibn KathirStill not an ayah or hadeeth. We can't exactly say it is true. Just a theory.>there was no mosqueWe believe once a time there was a religious building in there as a masjid, not a mosque. And it was destroyed way before the last form built again.
>>215371742>We believe once a time there was a religious building in there as a masjid, not a mosque.Problem with this argument:1) there is no archaeological record of that2) mohammed prayed towards al-aqsa in the early 600s, which means it would've had to have been around then3) the linking between Jerusalem and al-aqsa occurred later onSo you have two options:1) either it refers to another place and the linking occurred much later (as the development of islamic tradition shows)2) mohammed erroneously referred to a non-existent building he thought was thereI think option 1 is the better one, particularly given how your OP acknowledges there are many things in islam accepted as islamic that don't have a good basis.
>>215372404If you claim the reference is to a site and not an actual building, that counters the narrative of isra and miraj. Recall that at the time there was nothing there, everything had been razed and destroyed ~70 AD.It wasn't until after 636 AD that there eventually was a building there.
>>215372404This masjid could be a simple basic room or even a shack, when it is destroyed you can't find any evidence.The place of masjid is the point, not the building itself. Kabaa also destroyed several times but it doesn't stop us to pray towards to that place.
Stupid spaniard. Your cunt is literally sucking in moroccan migrants now.
>>215364055Also the star was originally 8 pointedThe 5 pointed star came much later, in the XIXth centuryI believe it's from freemasonry, they call it the blazing star
>>215364246>(which is honestly kind of creepy if you start to think about it).I know people have used the electric chair analogy to compare to the crucifixion, but it falls flat when you consider that it was adopted in a time where some people contemporaneously witnessed crucifixions (which was only abolished shortly after the adoption of christianity iirc). The adoption of crucifixion as a symbol evidently wasn't perceived any differently from using a sword as a symbol, and the depiction wasn't overly gory anyway to distract people on using it as a symbol.
>>215372404>>215373541Masjid means "place for prostration". In early islam, even a clearing could be a "masjid".
>>215364246The fish also has nothing to do with Jesus. It is actually pagan, associated with the Canaanite god Dagon
>>215367373
>>215370900>who repeatedly stated His brave claim of willingly giving His lifeSource, Mr scholar?
>>215364055no ya akhi umayyad are just continuation of rashidun, abasid went downhill with idea of ahl bayt rule and then fatimids added in shia bidas
>>215370900the masjid qubat al sakhra is not aqsa you retard, the entire compound is, so aqsa is in the city of jerusalem
>>215370688>spaincuck is a jeetmakes sense desu
>>215375552Yes>>215376649Mosque bid'ah started in the Umayyad era. I get the idea of using them as gathering place as big masjids, but linking them as official place of Muslims and making them as glorious buildings similar to Roman and Sassanid churches/temples is a shirk. They should be minimalistic, simple, humble places without pride and glory.And they used Crescent and Star symbolism too. Especially in their late era. If I'm not wrong.
>>215364055It's the same thing with Christianity, noone cares
>>215377494I just let people know.
>>215367835>That is the muslim point of viewThat's the view of everyone in the world not apart of your cult, senpai.
>>215364246vghh the cross was stolen by the kurishtuhns it is a symbol of "Zeus Olympios, Panhellenios, Keraunios, Horkios, Xenios, Philios, Soter, Meilichios, Agoraios, Bouleus, Polieus, Chthonios, Kataibates, Hypatos, Teleios, Herkeios, Tropaios, Basileus of the Gods, Anax of the Heavens, Father of Gods and Men, Upholder of Justice, Guardian of Oaths, Dispenser of Rain and Storm, Giver of Victory in War and Peace, Protector of the Hearth and Assembly, Wielder of the Aegis, Thunderer from Mount Ida and Olympus, He Who Hears Prayers and Watches All from the Heights of the Sky... oh algo
>>215364246It's interesting how much is just cultural like the symbols, church buildings and practices. It's not like God would care
>>215376308kek
>>215377584humans have very little time to acually understand what others think. you could be the perfect adherent of a faith but change out all the proper nouns with a different set from another culture and be cast out because that simple slight of hand is too much for 99 percent of people. so many abstract concepts and theological positions break and loose meaning when the words are tweaked slightly as the built in associations and neurological pathways become confused and go through aphasia all with a simple 1:1 caesar cypher
>>215364055they're arab, not islamic
>>215366904>Crucifixion didn't happenNow you've gone against the Islamic narrative.>>215367373Odd they do that when their early scholars praise Paul.
