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>>215364615
You made me Google it

>>215364615
>>215364932
>all euro rail has to be subsidized to exist
>Japan has the best rail network in the world completely private and profitable
???

>>215364615
Germans have a weird approach to railways, extremely self-centered

like we're going to build a hi-speed rail Warsaw-Poznań and it feels natural that it should be extended to Berlin but Germans said they're not gonna build their part Berlin-state border (that's barely like 50 km) so it will never unleash its full potential

>>215365343
Because you are the poorest neighbor of Germany by far. It is the same with Austria and Hungary. The railway line to the border in Austria is pretty shitty (similar to the one in Hungary) while the one westwards is high speed.

>>215365411
>Because you are the poorest neighbor of Germany by far.
yes, and that's why we are developing infrastructure so it could facilitate business connections and contribute to rising GDP for both sides, after all Germans invest shittons of money here so it could be beneficial for them too

and well, Poland might be the poorest per capita but still solely because of its size its the second biggest Germany's trade partner in Europe so saying train connections to Poland are worthless is just stupid

>>215365242
japanese fares are a lot higher, and most of the austrian net is owned by the state

>>215365411
>The railway line to the border in Austria is pretty shitty (similar to the one in Hungary)

I understand Austrians that they don't modernize their railway if Hungarians don't want to modernize theirs but the point is that we are going to modernize our line while Germans refuse to modernize theirs, it's not comparable to your situation.

>>215365242
Japs are bug slaves

>>215365626
I think Austria and Hungary has the most amount of trains between two countries in the entire EU. But international train passengers make up less than 2% of overall passengers.

>>215365242
people want to use japanese trains because you only have to share a carriage with japanese passengers
I cant even imagine what hell a french train is

>>215365242
trains in Japan are much more expensive
Japan also has a massive population, concentrated in a very small area, with no place for roads and cars and where people are basically forced to take public transports to move

>>215365705
but the current Warsaw-Berlin connection is used by a lot of people, it's definitely worth being converted into hi-speed

you're building a hi-speed line to Belgrade which is poorer than Debrecen probably yet somehow it makes sense, so when you take it into account, Berlin and Warsaw not having a hi-speed connection sounds like a joke

>>215365906
What is the current speed of that line?

>hi-speed line to Belgrade
The track is built for 200km/h but there is no grade separation so it is going to be vmax 160km/h on the Hungarian side if they ever finish it.
But it is a bad example because almost everyone thinks here that it is a pointless line. It is mainly built for Chinese freight to cross the country

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>>215365641
i dunno is this a lot?

>>215365984
>What is the current speed of that line?
160 (our hi-speed will be for 320-350)
>The track is built for 200km/h but there is no grade separation so it is going to be vmax 160km/h on the Hungarian side if they ever finish it.
on Serbian side it's 200 afaik and if Serbs could afford such speed just to Budapest, which isn't even their most important direction (pretty sure Zagreb and then DACH countries is more important for them) then Germans not being able to build just a 50 km stretch for 320, or at least 250, is pathetic

>>215366130
Yeah the Serbian side has 200 km/h segment because it is fully grade separated.
High speed (like above 200km/h) is very expensive for so many reasons. Power consumption alone increases more than linearly

>>215365343
The German railway is in a catastrophic state and declining fast like many other German institutions, it's more than likely incompetence.
German governance this century especially since Merkel has been absolutely attricious(not to mention poor demographics and millions of useless migrants that only make it worse), it will all come crashing down in the next 10-20 years.

No important reforms, no investments, only ridiculous woke policies, green economic self destruction and skyrocketing crime and costs from millions of Muslim welfare recipients.

>>215366336
but they're saving ukraine by tripling energy costs

>>215366334
>High speed (like above 200km/h) is very expensive for so many reasons. Power consumption alone increases more than linearly
i get that but we're talking about connecting capital (and biggest) cities of two large European countries that are close trade and political partners, I don't believe it wouldn't make economic sense

>>215366336
that's why Germans need fast connection to Poland even more - to have a place to escape to if Germany sinks

>>215365411
this also happens with other neighbor countries, though
Germany is massively delayed in upgrading any southbound railway, especially towards the Brenner base tunnel it's a shitshow (and we have a big economical interest in that, it's our most important connection to Italy)
Denmark did the smart thing and decided to build the Fehmarn Belt tunnel all alone, so now we're only delayed in upgrading the connection between Hamburg and German
Czechs are now planning to dig a tunnel to Dresden, I'm not sure if they know what they're getting themselves into lel

on the other hand it's not much better for our interior infrastructure, just our central position makes most connections relevant also for transit traffic

>>215366334
Also if it is really only 50 km from the border then it does not make sense to build it high speed, it could barely speed up, the time saving would be minimal while operational and maintenance costs would easily multiply. The Luxembourg - Paris high speed train is vmax 160 on the Luxembourg side too, only becomes high speed once you cross the border to France. Simply not worth it

>>215366488
*Hamburg and Fehmarn

>>215366493
>the time saving would be minimal while operational and maintenance costs would easily multiply.

by this logic every first 50 km stretch of any hi-speed line should be actually low-speed, it could save some money after all

i can't accept this explanation, really, every saved minute makes train connection more preferable to cars/planes which is what Europe should strive for, to decrease CO2 emission or car traffic in cities

>>215366493
average speed paradoxon
in a high speed connection, a short slow bit will be an overproportionally big increase in travel time
it's why the French high speed links are often built around cities, to avoid having to use the slower city railway

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>>215366488
>and we have a big economical interest in that, it's our most important connection to Italy
and now imagine that Italy is a less important trade partner to Germany than Poland...yet building a hi-speed line to Italy feels natural to you, while a railway to Poland supposedly doesn't make sense lol

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The levels of germanophobia on /int/ are insane.

>>215366736
I guess that's because German economy is still run by boomers whose understanding of the world got updated last time in 1983 and they think there is just a black hole east of the Oder, or maybe even already east of the Elbe

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>>215366789
please let me reach Berlin faster by train so I could return home by car

>>215366888
I would never allow my beloved polebros to travel to Berlin, the asshole of Germany. Come to Munich and take all the cars you want.

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>>215366918
I'm sorry but ich liebe ein berliner

>>215366736
goods traffic don't need high speed though
the Alpine sector is about capacity, not about speed
our motorways to Poland have a very high share of truck traffic, because while there is lots of goods traffic between Germany and Poland, individual traffic is less important
The only electrical line from Saxony to Poland is some bumfuck backwater railway upgraded just for goods traffic

With the current state of our railway, we really have other priorities than traveling from Berlin to Frankfurt/Oder at top speed

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>>215366978
In Munich, we have Faschingskrapfen!

>>215366988
>our motorways to Poland have a very high share of truck traffic, because while there is lots of goods traffic between Germany and Poland, individual traffic is less important
well...why we could use the railway for that, then?

and individual transport could encourage more tourism + business trips

>we really have other priorities than traveling from Berlin to Frankfurt/Oder at top speed

that's disingenuous, obviously it's not about travelling just to Frankfurt but to Warsaw

>>215364615
>Why don't you have trains like we do in Eur-ACK

>>215366999
sorry, Munich is a designated Serb territory, we Slavs are quite tribalist, if one of our brotherly clans occupies a territory, other clans don't interfere with that but seek their own territory to squat on

>>215366686
>by this logic every first 50 km stretch of any hi-speed line should be actually low-speed, it could save some money after all

But that is already the case. You cannot go very fast in the city or near the city. 320 km/h needs giant curves (cant rebuild the entire city around the railway line) and time to reach that speed. Look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2nTCr5spQY
12 minutes until it is allowed to go with 160km/h, another 3 minutes until it is allowed to go with 220 km/h. Speed limits get to 270 km/h 18 minutes after departure and 300 km/h after 19 minutes. By this time it would reach the border.

>>215367109
You reject my love but that's okay because I know I don't have a claim to it.

>>215367136
>You cannot go very fast in the city or near the city. 320 km/h needs giant curves (cant rebuild the entire city around the railway line) and time to reach that speed.
that's why they build railway bypasses around many cities, exactly to keep high speed along the whole route

>>215367174
Like what cities?

>>215364615
>Plane to Paris: 1,5 hour security & boarding + 2 hour flight + 0,5 hour deboarding = 4 hours total
>Train to Paris: 12+ hour ride
Trains also aren't even cheaper, you can get some easy Jet or Ryan air flight for <100€

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>>215367208

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Germans I kneel for wanting to decline like my country since infrastructure is communist idea.

>>215365343
If it doesn't stop in Frankfurt/Oder I want none of it

>>215367250
i thought the only purpose of existence of this city is to confuse poor American and Asian tourists who wanted to go to Frankfurt am Main yet accidentally clicked on a wrong Frankfurt while booking a ticket

>>215367238
The trains stop at the Saint-Pierre-des-Corps station there. They don't go into the city because it is a termini (trans would have to be reversed to continue from there)

>>215366999
*Karneval
*Berliner
Learn to speak. tsk tsk

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>>215367425
that's not the only example m8

>>215367307
It doesn't have an airport so the confusions are minimal currently. We need to have it grow so much it gets its own one, so we can really move business along. Chang and John are going to love visiting the Oderturm™

>>215367428
What did Ronny Stasimayer mean by this?

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>>215367483
etc etc
French system is just built like that, they leave mid-sized cities aside exactly not to slow down trains every time it goes through the city

>>215367483
But this is entirely irrelevant when talking about the 50 km/h German segment that would connect Berlin to the line to Warsaw.

>>215367519
he can be from West Berlin THOUGH

>>215367589
why not? every saved minute is worth the hassle as it makes train travel more preferable to any other means of transport

>>215367425
>Saint-Pierre-des-Corps
What a shithole

I hate changing trains there

>>215367597
A turd by any other name is still a turd

>>215367639
No, that is not how it works at all. No one cares about a 5 minute difference only to bankrupt the operation

>>215365242

>>215367685
>No one cares about a 5 minute difference only to bankrupt the operation
that would be more than 5 minutes tho
and again, by your logic the French system should have <200 speed for every first 50 km part

>>215367055
>why we could use the railway for that, then
the point is that the railway to Poland has no capacity shortage, it's fine enough for goods transport
the railway to Italy crosses the Alps, causing a massive transport bottleneck

>that's disingenuous
such is claiming that nothing is being done, the track is currently being upgraded to 160km/h

>>215367750
>the track is currently being upgraded to 160km/h
wow, welcome to...1925?

Germans could build that hi-speed line as reparations for 1109 invasion of Poland (WW2 will be accounted separately)

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save Deutschland pls

>>215367639
with German regionalism, there is bound to be a stop in Frankfurt
the entry into Berlin will be a massive time sink
top speed would be useless there

take the highspeed line from Nürnberg to Erfurt
also referred to as Germany's longest metro, because long stretches of it run in tunnels, 300km/h would not have been possible otherwise in the terrain of South Thüringen
and now most trains only run at 250, because it makes no difference for the schedule

>>215367727
How much time could be saved if a train could accelerate up to 320 km/h instead of 160 km/h considering there is a few minute slow zone in the city? It is entirely marginal.

I generally dislike these flashy prestige projects. If I look at the website correctly, right now there are only 6 trains between Warsaw and Berlin a day, last one being at 5 PM. For comparison there are 7 trains back and forth between Miskolc and Kosice on a daily basis, two cities with the population of 140k and 220k. Between Vienna and Budapest there are 16 trains a day back and forth operated by the national railway and 4 RegioJet trains by that operator, so that is 20 pairs a day. Cross border services in Europe suck for the most part and a lot could be improved without needing 350 km/h Giga Pro MAX Maglev TGV and 15 billion euro in infrastructure cost. The high speed line in the Baltics is overkill as well, there are barely any people and no trains at the moment. They spend 20 years building a line and it needs to be high speed of course so they will just reduce service because there are simply not enough people between the cities. Should have build a 160 km/h line that is much cheaper to operate and maintain and create a decent timetable but that does not sound flashy enough.

>>215367798
>welcome to...1925
nah that would mean trains are running on time

>>215364615
don't worry, just privatize 10% more of DB and it will be fixed this time I promise wallahi

>>215365727
rail is still the most popular method of travel you retarded faggot

>>215367242
DB was fine right on time when it was state run but now it's private it's shit

>>215368067
>with German regionalism, there is bound to be a stop in Frankfurt
it's up to train companies where to stop unless they're state-subsidized (but hi-speed connections usually aren't)

>>215368273
DB is not a private company

>>215368324
it's run like a private company despite being state owned
it wasn't always like that, the disasters started after this

>>215368077
it's not a flashy project dude, simply because the trains only ride 160 kmph between Warsaw and Berlin, many people just pick the plane instead
if it was 320 all the way, the train could be faster than plane unironically which would increase the number of passengers many times

>>215368381
The municipalities order services from the company and DB piles up a bunch of debt. That is not very private company like

>>215368399
There are more people driving between these two than either plane or train passengers. Train vs plane would come down to price. You could achieve a higher ridership by running more trains reliably between the two than making it high-speed with expensive tickets.

>>215368531
>There are more people driving between these two than either plane or train passengers.
and obviously a hi-speed train would compete with cars even more

>>215368531
Budapest is only a tourist magnet because your ancestors once decided to build a bunch of flashy buildings
imagine if they thought "economically" like you do, your capital city would look like some fucking Magnitogorsk

>>215368547
Not really. Cars allows you to go wherever. People who drive very rarely switch to trains. There was a study with the Klimaticket in Germany. People who already took trains took more but very few people switched from cars.

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>>215368294
did happen before
rhineland-palatinate was only going to allow the line from frankfurt/main to köln when some trains would stop in limburg and montabaur
which they still do today
trust me, there will be a stop in frankfurt

>>215367854
i was not going to mention that part on my own, but yeah, the diplomatic relations between poland and germany are certainly not helping the german interest in building prestige passenger lines to poland

>>215368399
there are only very few lines in germany that is fully high-speed
it's normally a mix between high speed and upgraded lines
we're not france where the tgv has its own network, but the fastest way from marseille to toulouse is via paris

>>215368531
>The municipalities order services from the company and DB piles up a bunch of debt. That is not very private company like
our train system is much worse
what you describe is only true for regional trains (which are a cost sink)
long-distance trains are run privately (because they're profitable)
it's basically a legalized tax theft scheme

>>215364615
>want to care
Can't afford to care for them due to nafri immigrants

>>215368753
>People who drive very rarely switch to trains.
...because there are not enough hi-speed trains

>>215368779
>long-distance trains are run privately
I did not know that, thanks. Either way from what I've heard it is not just constant delays but so many cancellations and such. Something should be done desu

>>215368779
>the diplomatic relations between poland and germany are certainly not helping the german interest in building prestige passenger lines to poland
we have very good relations tho
if anything, misunderstanding might sometimes arise because there are not enough train connections

>>215365343
Because the only purpose of Poland is to kill all polish males for a 1% chance to dismantle Russia

>>215368840
Cars do not compete with trains at all. Trains compete with air travel. Does not matter if it is fast or not

high speed train in France is fucking gay, all trains go from or to Paris, if you are in any other city wanting to go to another city, guess what, YOU HAVE TO GO TO PARIS

>>215368901
>for a 1% chance to dismantle Russia
i could die for that myself
>>215368920
is there anything worth to visit in France other than Paris THO?

>>215366095
that's for the local city public transport not for shinkansen retard.
>>215365906
i would actually love it if there was warsaw-berlin high speed train. wouldn't even mind the fast connection to other cities as well. i once took the train to krakow from berlin, took 7 hours. also gdansk would be nice

>>215366918
b.. but munich has bavarians in it and is an overpriced boring city. PREUẞENS GLORIA !!!

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>>215368939
I'm a medGOD, idgaf about p*ris, good thing foreign companies started moving their fast trains in my region for low prices AND NOT HAVING TO GO TO PARIS

>>215369015
i thought the real rivalry is between Munich and
Hamburg, while Berlin stays off all these petty disputes because well...it's the capital city, nothing can be ever compared with the capital city

>>215367109
vienna is a designated serb territory though
>>215367307
well rn it exists so that smokers can buy cheap cigs in poland but yea this would be fun>>215367516

>>215369059
>nothing can be ever compared with the capital city

berlin is the only european capital that NEEDS funding from other states to stay afloat

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>>215368604
We spent a lot of money on building railways back then. By the first world war Hungary had 21 200 km of railways and 1600 km narrow gauge rail.

>even Turkey has 250 kmph railways all across the country
it's over for eastern Poorope

>>215369059
everyone hates berlin and bavarians hate everything anyways. they wake up hating themselves

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>>215369039
Thats the picture I took from my parents place. I go there by night train from Paris funnily enough

>>215369072
>vienna is a designated serb territory though

erm ackshually its now taken over by ukrainians

>>215369108
>We spent a lot of money on building railways back then.
yeah, one could say you also overspent too much for showing off

dude, we're not in this world just to save every penny, after all life is about fun and riding 320 kmph in a modern train is fun, period

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>>215368895
>if anything, misunderstanding might sometimes arise because there are not enough train connections
lel
even then, the priority is to get more lines, not to get cross the oderland at one minute faster on the single line that exists
saxony and silesia are connected only by regional trains because there is no electric line east of dresden
a 300km/h link to frankfurt/oder is really not the biggest concern

>>215368895
>Pole think relations are very good when he only demands 1.7 gorillions euros reparations twice a year instead of the usual three times.

>>215369150
why an Austrian city couldn't be just dominated by...Austrians? am I really asking for too much?

>>215369059
bavaria's eternal rival is prussia, and berlin was the capital of prussia

>>215367109
>>215369072
i had always taken munich to be croat territory

>>215369192
we're rather introvert and don't show our feelings openly
>>215369185
>a 300km/h link to frankfurt/oder is really not the biggest concern
that could be a good starting point for general improvement of all lines in this direction

>>215369170
The vast majority of buildings were not built by the government

>>215369143
Take trenitalia
fuck the sncf goobers

>>215369088
>https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article256236016/Berlin-koennte-Muenchen-als-wirtschaftsstaerkste-Stadt-bald-ueberholen.html
well this was the case but it was only due to the fact that west germany potentiated (and germany still does) frankfurt and munich because berlin was split in half and every factory and most of industry was positioned in other states. but this is going to change

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>>215369212
they had prague for that

>>215369260
i will personally install this sign along the entire railway from berlin to warsaw if i hear another tone from you

>>215369212
>am I really asking for too much?
you are

>>215369260
The love language of poles is reperation demands

>>215366095
It adds up very quickly, there are multiple private train companies. So if you pay for one ticket and need to transfer to a train owned by another company you have to pay again.

>>215365727
probably this

>>215365242
japan is a tiny tiny island, very compact.
it's the same principle that makes the US an entirely different place than europe. the US is even less dense than europe.

>>215369309
what about...GenItalia?

>>215367519
I'm a Wessi thoughevermorebeit, Berliners call them Fasching and Pfannkuchen respectively

>>215365727
It's expensive so it's okay. Though boomers are extremely annoying.