If you want to know the real history of nafris, read about the Banu Hilal tribe. They were sent as literal bioweapons by Fatimids along with Banu Sumayl to control them and have stayed as the biggest Arab tribe and the Maghreb never fucking recovered. All Hilaloids do is destroy, steal, rape.
>>215737841>Shia dynasty.Yep, it checks out. Shias are technically the most Arab supremacist sect so it's no suprise they Arabized North Africa.
>>215737841>to control themthey were used as slave soldiers by north african dynasties (almoravid, almohad, marinid, zianid, hafsids etc.), they were the ones getting controlled, not the other way aroundAlso the Fatimids started in north africa and sent a lot of nafris to the middle east as well (kutama and masmuda mostly), where nafri governors ruled as well. >All Hilaloids do is destroy, steal, rape.meme from ibn khaldun that no modern historian take seriously. Their women did get raped in 1153 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_S%C3%A9tif
>>215738003The fatimid literally started by kutama berbers in Algeria's berber heartland with the explicit goal to exterminate the arabs from north africa (aghlabids), the fuck are you talking aboutBerbers in the fatimid state did not pay taxes, were the govering and state/military body, unlike the arabs.>it's no suprise they Arabized North AfricaBerber dynasties did that by spreading the hilaloids around.
>The Berber sultans allowed — and indeed invited — the Hilalians to enter Morocco, overlooking the consequences of a large-scale Arab penetration.>Morocco: a country study - Page 33>Hilalian Arabs, defeated in battle by the Almohads, were nonetheless allowed to settle in Morocco.>Harold D. Nelson>Abdul-Mumin's defeat of the Hilalian bedouin in Tunisia led to the forced settlement of a number of Arab tribes in Morocco's coastal plains bordering the Atlantic ocean, where their arrival accelerated the process of Arabisation.>The Middle East Yearbook - Page 186
People think that Arabs are above Berbers on the racial hierarchy, but the real hierarchy is Sharifians>Berbers>>>>Hilaloids
>>215738021What is the hierarchy of Berbers in Morocco? Is it Zenata>Sanhaja>Masmuda>Harati?
>>215738656Currently? There is none, the only divide is arab(ized)/ berber. Historically: 9th–11th : Zenata — Maghraoua, Meknassa, Ifrenides11th–12th : Sanhaja — Almoravid Empire (Al-Murabitun)12th–13th : Masmouda — Almohad Empire (Al-Muwahhidun)13th–15th : Zenata — Marinid dynasty (Banu Marin)15th–16th : Zenata — Wattasid dynasty (Banu Wattas)
>>215737841Banu hilal were mostly wiped out by almohads and almoravids. The rest were settled by yaqub al mansur (who said that he regrets it) in the atlantic plains where plague wiped out berbers and later made up some of the main corps of Saadis. It's the banu sulaym who survived mostly and settled slowly and steadily.That being said they werent "sent" by fatimids, they were expulsed for BTFO'ing mecca and throwing the black rock. The black rock on the kaaba isnt the real one.Berbers arent any better, banu hilal and berbers are a match made in heaven
>>215738656Those are medieval classification that are obsolete now especially when used the way ibn khaldun does>>215738021>slave soldiersWrong. They part الݣيش of saadis and were on good terms with themLater on the guich became the abeed al bukhari because arabs and berbers were too unruly for alawites taste so they replaced most of the army with black slaves
>>215739079What do you mean they're obsolete? I thought that only the French tried to make them obsolete but failed. If I meet a Moroccan, should I ask xer whether xe's Hilal/Sulaym/Maqil/Sharifian of Arab or Masmuda/Sanhaja/Zenata if Berber, or will they be ignorant and think it's a slur?
/zg/ - Zutt general
>>215739371They're obsolete as in they're pseudo-history folk classifications for semi-nomadic tribes that were agitated all the time. For arabs it's easier to pinpoint whether they're banu hilal or sulaym or whatever if the person cares enough because these are more recent more ""grounded"" classifications and sub-ethnicities. For berbers they've lost track of these things on a folklore spoken heritage level so you'll just come accross as a weirdo asking a japanese person if they're jomon or yayoi. Some people still have these tribal names as a last name tho (zenati, senhaji, lamti, ouerdighi...) but whether they truly represents the person affiliation or not is up to their own circumstances
>>215739371Doesn't work that way anymore, due to arabisation, the case with urban moroccans is that they are disconnected from their roots.You just ask if they are arab (arabic speaking, not ethnic) or berber, even that will get you dubious answers.The major three berber confederations still exist of course, and some people are aware of their existence, you can mainly tell the difference through their spoken dialects, each confederation has it's own branch of the language, they are mutually intelligible to a certain extent.
>>215740113It's completely the other way, banu this and that themselves are ambiguous nobodies mercenaries that were brough from the east...the east being tunisia at most...so yeah, not of any clear ancestry, however natives have been established here for way too long, and the distinction is clear for many reasons, there's a difference between obsolete and avoided.Are you a berber speaker?Because if you are it's easy to differentiate between what each person is, it's not so hard, at least for me.If uou are darijophone or a aarobi then you won't be familiar with rural non arabic speaking morocco to begin with.
>>215740151Is it true that even if geographically separate, the berber groups are ethnically reltared? So the Masmuda by Tetouan and the Sanhaja around Bejaia (Kabyles) are more related to their fellow tribesmen than to Zenatas?
>>215740278Obviously regardless of autosomal most North Africans have a single paternal line, so of course everyone is related broadly regardless of appearance.But those specific clan affiliations are mostly due to allegiances and historical truces and whatnot, I don't believe they were too strictly based on geographic ancestry, there's also a linguistic aspect, there are Zenati languages, and clear Senhaji ones, and so on.The thing is most capable linguists, historians, and every other discipline have glossed over North Africa and broadly classified it as Arab-Islamic, either due to Orientalism or some other form of loaded background.It's not so easy to get information on the region, and anyone who claims to do so is probably misinforming you.
>>215740275Arabs are autistic about their lineage and even if you claim that it's falsified the preservation component is still there. Berbers simply never recorded their own history until they started interacting with arabs in the medieval ages.I am arabo-berber, half half from both family sides. I hope this wont cause you a massive spergout about supposed arobization and yada yada. It's not like arabism or berberism are a race or confined/defined ethnic ultimates. The fact that berbers have falsified their heritage since ummayads speaks volumes even if i were to find out through a jewish dna test that i'm 120% berber, id still stand my ground that i'm arabo berber at least culturally.Besides you're a diaspoop so your opinion doesn't matter>>215740278That's specifically why they're obsolete as i've said before, the initial tribes scattered around way too much for the specification to be relevant. Masmouda is both the chaouia ouerdigha but also southern morocco, even the arabs living in both these places are fundamentally different The only ones who fit a restrained category are high and middle atlas berbers due to their very sedentary nature
>ITT an araboid norvagina arguing with moroapesYou're the only subhumans who care about this shit
>>215740473I mean i was just inquiring about your background, as i understand you grandparents would have been the very last speakers in your lineage.Maybe i am more qualified to talk about the linguistic aspect since i speak the language and was born and raised in a berber heartland, who knows.I don't intend to butt heads with you, but those you call Banu Hilal are just mercenaries and workers imported from Ifriqya, they are at most mutted Arabic speakers themselves, it also makes sense given the period of their supposed importation.Modern genetic studies prove that if they were to be strangers, then they've had very little influence.I don't buy into them being absolute strangers to this land, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.>>215740580I don't really care that much, you are right, i should get off.
>>215740698>you grandparents would have been the very last speakers in your lineage.Wrong>are just mercenaries and workers imported from IfriqyaHistorically wrong.>I don't buy into them being absolute strangers to this land, the truth is probably somewhere in the middleI've left haplomemes long ago, but berbers are literally just near easterns who mixed with the early yoruba natives. Look it up
>>215740580I'm 100% Norwegian, I am visiting Morocco for the first time in a week for two weeks and I need to know how to discriminate people
>>215740764Sure, historically wrong, mhm>yorubaNigga, you have misunderstood the fuck out of the tafoughalt studies lmao, that's just not what they say, they are about a whole different thing, they are about confirming back migrations from western asia, which they proved, that's the literal idea.A detail you missed is that many specimens were found, some that never migrated, some that have migrated and came back, and some that came from the south, it's very logical.Those specification also are just approximations to modern populations, none of the populations we name currently existed at the time.But there's a continuity with say, people from the neolithic in the area and modern north africans, they aren't "them" per se.>>215740972You are better off visiting elsewhere.
>French flag
>>215741016I wanted to visit Iran but the n the war happened. Thankfully I will spend most of the time in Fez, Meknes and Marrakesh which I believe are Zenata, Masmuda and Maqil territory so no Hilaloids
>inbred muddies with a VPNSuicide frog poster
Berbers got cucked as punishment from God for Rejecting us btw
There is no such a thing as a truly Arab nafris. All the stories about Arab migration into north africa read just like every origin myth you'll ever find. It's like the Romans and the Anglos who LARPed as Trojans, the Turks who co-opted the "Turanian" identity for themselves, or the million groups out there who LARPed as the missing tribes of Israel.
>>215742591berbers were literally the only people on earth who didn't expulse your nigger race out of their lands, and you haven't been grateful in any way but quite the opposite.Twice you were saved.>>215737841>>215740972you are some kind of hisotrynut ? no way you are norwegian and you know this much...>>215740113>they're pseudo-history folk classifications for semi-nomadic tribesthey are not pseudo dumbass, they were proven by genetics>>215740278yes because they were closer originally, they can even understand each other better than they can understand their zenata neighbours>>215740473bitch it's bedouins whose ancestries have been proven to be incorrect today, both here and in the arabian peninsula>>215740698>but those you call Banu Hilal are just mercenaries and workers imported from Ifriqya, they are at most mutted Arabic speakers themselves, it also makes sense given the period of their supposed importation.you are kinda right, those imported from here and libya included both actual bedouins and arabized berbers, morocco has high e-v65 y haplogroup among "arabs", which exists in Luwata tribe (libya and tunisia) presence historically
>>215744206>He thinks I am Jewish
>>215744282>tf>that alphabet>>He thinks I am Jewish
>>215744422Think about what I said for a moment
>>215738116>>215738021Go back to your country
>>215744626Oh my god... You're so right man. Now that some irrelevant faggot on the internet complained because his feelings got hurt I am FORCED to comply and make him le happy... Because he's relevant, has power, can change the world and is totally in control of everything. So yes I'm backing up and leaving because you typed words on the internet, good job man saving the west really was that easy.
>>215744721Calm down ahmed or i'll call a nigger to zutt you and your beurette of a sister (like mahomerde the faggot)
Wtf is this thread even about
