>Use an M16>you shoot no more than 3.5 inches high out to 300 yards using the point blank battle sight setting>use AK-47>shoot a fucking foot high out to 300 meters using the point blank setting>5.56mm also creates bigger wounds than 7.62x39mmdo yuros really?
>>217164411euros used 7.62X51 nato battle rifles until the end of the cold war
>>217164411AK has 7.76, I have tracer rounds of it left.M16 is 5.56 NATO standard. The better variant is an automatic AR taking NATO rounds
>>217164411>he says, as his country is actively replacing the 5.56 for a round the same size as a 7.62
>>217164622Elaborate I don’t keep up on the news
>>217164535AK 47 rounds icepick, Nato rounds tumble. it's one of the reasons the russians went to the 5.45 which also has better wounding than the AK47 round >>217164622we're trying to replace 5.56 with a .270 round, not a .30 cal>>217164665sig bribed someone so the army is trying to update from the M4 to this retarded sig rifle that has more range. they should replace the MGs but not the M4
>>217164411Ak looks way cooler though
>>217164471Belgium Adopted the FNC in 1989Austria the Aug in 1978France the Famas in 1978Bongolia with the L85 in 1986only the poorfag countries waited until the fall of the berlin wall to adopt 5.56
>>217164899it's a copy of the grandfather all assault rifles, a Sturmgewehr-44
>>217165115In like superficial looks and concept but under the hood the operating system for the AK was based off the M1 Garand. Even Kalashnikov admitted he took some of the design from the Garand
>>217165115so is the AR
>>217165115T. GunletThe m16 has more in common with the gun you just posted then the ak but you’re a retard who only thinks about the shape meaning they’re both the same thing.
>>217164411euros use galil which fires the same ammo yours does
>do yuros really?no, that's why the Soviets gradually introduced 5.45x39mm around that time
>>217166531jews don't even use galils. they US M16s they got for free>>217166559the ak74 still uses a retarded 450 yard zero and shoots like a foot height
>>217166756we use tavor arad and emtan
>>217165115Actually it’s the rotating bolt of the M1 Garand, the safety of the Remington Model 8, the 30 round magazine layout of the STG, and the sights of the mosin
>>217166756>they US M16s they got for freeThey actually build their own American rifles but yeah they don't use galil that much
>>217164411>rangeRange hasn't mattered since the Napoleonic Wars. No one really aims their automatic rifles either nowadays. It's all about suppressing fire while you call in the fire support. Most fire fights happen at 50-100 meters. It is even less relevant in jungles and urban areas. Also, >>>/k/t. Reserve Lt.
Who gives a fuck? I would take a shit on every fucking gun and piss on it too
>>217164904>only the poorfag countries waited until the fall of the berlin wall to adopt 5.56>fucking poors, like>*checks notes*>germany?
>>217164698>AK 47 rounds icepick, Nato rounds tumble.Depends entirely on the bullet design and barrel length. 5.56, especially the ss109 projectile, is notoriously bad out of short barrels. The main reason why most armies adopt a lighter intermediate cartridge like the .223 or 5.45 is logistics. The lighter your cartridge, the easier it is to ship in bulk across the globe. And, in terms of the individual soldier, it's better for them to have more rounds that stop less reliably than fewer rounds that stop more reliably, because in most cases it's not the rifleman that kills the target, but indirect fire, CAS or drones.I personally do prefer the 5.56 over 7.62x39, but that's as much due to the superiority of the AR platform than the specifications of the cartridge.
>>217166889I'm pretty sure statistically most of the jews in the jew army are armed with M16s, but it might be that those are POGs and the actual combat units have tavors
>>217167942Range mattered a little at the end of the 19th century. Both the US and Bongs seethed over snipers using 7mm mauser in the spanish American and boer wars. The US switched from the .30-40 krag which was about on par with .303 bong to the .30-03 and later .30-06 which was about on par with 8mm mauser. Bongs tried to switch to some .276 round but then WWI happened but it did lead to the creation of the p14 enfield and the 1907 American enfield Usually everyone is just going to use the battle sights and if you use the battle sights the M16A1 is only 3.5 inches off until you get past 300 yards. the AK can be as far as a foot off so the commies have to aim at the belt buckle or lowest point they can see. >>217168043oh shit, it's one of those indian student visas in Russia
>>217168086germany is such a poorfag company they adopted a rifle that melts>>217169024there's a /k/ infographic, unless the 7.62x39 we get in the US is just super shitty 5.56 outside of m855 out of a short barrel tends to tumble and make a bigger wound than the 7.62x39 we get that tends to just icepick and punch a clean hole. But we also don't usually shoot m855/ss109 in the US. We either shoot something approximating M193 or we shoot more modern defensive loads which would violate the hague convention
>>217164411>a gun developed for ww2 era doctrine doesnt perform the same as a gun that was adopted 20 years laterdamn sherlockwhen the ak was starting to be sent out we were still using the m14, old garands, grease guns, and heavy ass thompsons, all of which underperformed in each of their roles compared to an akand the m16a2 really sucked with its shitty burst fire, which we were stuck with all the way up to the 2000s
>>217170667also, in case anyone didnt know, the AK was originally doctrinally an SMG, so the original intention wasnt to have a high range, high accuracy gun, it was just to have a cheap smg with a little more firepower and range than what everybody else was usingand in classic soviet tradition, this "smg" wound up getting adopted by absolutely everyone, replacing what wouldve been the standard infantry rifles, as what happened in ww2 with the ppsh
>>217164904The NATO standard cartridge was supposed to be .280 British, but the US chimped out about needing their full auto assault rifles to shoot at least a 30. caliber. Everyone adopted 7.62x51, the US found out shooting full auto with full power cartridges is impossible for the average grunt and made everyone switch to .223 Remington.
>>217166889>ACE 21/23/52/53>Mtar 21>deagle>uzi>negevWhy are the yids so good at making guns?
>>217164411>g3 enters the chat>hits you dead in the eye
>>217169539>there's a /k/ infographic, unless the 7.62x39 we get in the US is just super shitty 5.56 outside of m855 out of a short barrel tends to tumble and make a bigger wound than the 7.62x39 we get that tends to just icepick and punch a clean hole. But we also don't usually shoot m855/ss109 in the US. We either shoot something approximating M193 or we shoot more modern defensive loads which would violate the hague conventionIt's not particularly difficult to violate the HC when it disallows the use of hollow points in war. The reason why 5.56 performs well is because out of long barrels, it tends to fragment and tumble. Out of shorter barrels, at its worst it's almost like you're shooting .22 LR. The larger diameter of 7.62x39 means that it's almost guaranteed to cause a larger wound channel, and on top of that, the larger mass of the projectile means that it's far more likely to retain its trajectory when eg. hitting a branch than 5.56, which is pretty useful in any decently forested area. The cherry on top for 7.62x39 is that it suppresses easier than 5.56, which you can't really sacrifice velocity on or you will lose practically all lethality.7.62x39 has plenty of disadvantages, but lacking lethality is not one. In fact it's certainly one of the most lethal cartridges in human history.
why not just make.. you know 1 bullet type
>>217171269i noticed 5 different israeli made things in mexicos last parade
for me, itll always be the FN FAL
>>217171384great rifle
>>217169024i thought it was a matter of range. they were thinking accurate fire fights happen at close range and accurate fire at long range without optics is too hard.now the thinking is changing because of standard issue optics and body armour.even still in an actual war like russia vs ukraine i think having large amounts of whatever and then saving money for more important weapons is better. some countries spend a lot making minute improvements to infantry when infantry shooting eachother is such a minor consideration in a war. having more grenades is of more importance than finding the perfect rifle. having enough rifles and having enough parts to keep the rifles in good working condition too. even the perfect rifle needs repair.
>>217174652I had a swedish one from 1957
>>217174946>i thought it was a matter of range. they were thinking accurate fire fights happen at close range and accurate fire at long range without optics is too hard.And now that thinking is changing again with the advent of drone warfare. Ukraine only uses around a squad's worth of guys to defend a square kilometre of terrain. Anything that moves gets droned rather than shot at.>having more grenades is of more importance than finding the perfect rifle.Yes, this is why the lightness of the rifle and the cartridge is a primary concern. Service rifles are basically there just for "oh shit" moments, and to provide suppressive fire. We can safely disregard the "oh shit" moments as being particularly relevant outside of specialised roles, but the second part is a critical concern - the primary sources of lethality on the battlefield are fires, CAS and drones. Infantry's rifles are there to keep the enemy pinned so that you can task a more lethal system to service them instead. To that end, a lighter round is preferable - you can load more rounds on a pallet for the same amount of weight, and the infantryman can carry more to keep the enemy's heads down for longer.That's the primary reason why NATO uses 5.56, not because it's any kind of a miracle round. It's light, cheap, and sufficiently lethal.
>>217165115I am sorry but I will side with rusissies with this one because it is false. Kalashnikov concern had a video where they compared the StG-44, Ak-47 and Ar-15, StG-44 has more similarities to an AR platform than the AK.
>>217174652It is i wonderful rifle, but it’s a heavy carbine with only a 20 round mag, and we hardly ever train to use it beyond 300m. Its potential is wasted, and a lighter 5,56 carbine like M4 or Ak24 is far better.The Ak4D is a great DMR though.
but AK can easily shoot through a train rail from 200mcan your Toy-16 do the same?
>>217164622I thought they were going to 6.5mm.Like Arma 3.
>>217164411It's not a European weapon per se but typical Soviet. It's cheap to manufacture, easy to repair, shoots even if it's frozen or muddy and even a monkey can operate it. Soviet infantry is like a Zerg rush, this weapon fits that fighting style. Can't tell the same about the M16.
>>217166479>The m16 has more in commonnigel stop talking nonsense. you can't even own guns
>>217176091https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M7_rifleHmm apparently moved to 6.8mm.Mad Arma3 predicted it in like 2013 or whatever though.
>>217170667We switched from the thompson to the grease gun way before the AK started to get issued. Most AKs didn't even start getting built until 1959 with the AKM because actual AK-47 receivers are hard to manufacture
>>217170885>>217170667>says all that and the posts a pic of an AK74lmao>>217171053I can't imagine a bong round would be any good
>>217164411US soldiers dicth their m-16 for AK in vietnam iirc
>>217171384>>217174652ARs are more accurate than G3s>>2171725807.62x39 is way, way less lethal than 5.56 and 5.45. Again you're basing your >muh icepicking thing on one report from black hawk down which was probably wrong. it was based on them using 14.5 inch and 11.5 inch carbines with m855 which no one uses anymore on emaciated drug users. and it was a war zone so the troops were probably getting confused about who they were shooting>we shot a black guy and he kept commingturns out it was a different black guy.it's like the m1 carbine shit where they were shooting over the chinamen's heads and missing and saying the rounds bounced off their coats.7.62x39 makes a smaller hole than 9mm
>>217173893what?>>217174946>i thought it was a matter of range5.45 and 5.56 both have better range than 7.62x39 and you can shoot an iron sighted FAL, G3 or M14 about the same distance as an iron sighed M16
>>217176060yeah, with green tips
>>217176136ARs are cheap as shit to make with modern manufacturing and work as long as you have enough lube for the,>>217176091ye>>217177961they didn't. that would make no sense and be retarded
>>217176136dont know about that I saw videos of ukies using both akms and ARs that were drowned in mud and shit and the aks kept jamming and shit the ars performed better
Ok but m16 is globohomo weapon.
>>217178332you're literally from global homo country, india
>>217168043>I would take a shitofc you would, ranjeet
>>217165115>?DS?AA?DL Laq= $#0o211=- 3o-2o 34lo;
>>217178223>they didn't. that would make no sense and be retarded
>>217175550you only need 20 rounds if you make them matter. sweden is forest country, forest is branches, twigs, leafs etc in your way. a heavy slow bullet will make its way through it, a light fast bullet will get deflected by every leaf it hits. thats why 'nam vets threw avay their ar and picked up an enemy ak if they could. it wasnt more accurate ot reliable, but it throwing heavy slugs at the enemy was more efficent than pew-pew'ing at them with 5,56.it was a joke when i served>the americans was herethats when we could pic up 5,56 bullets laying on top of the snow at the range. what kind of bullet can possibly get in such a position while being deadly?whe now mostly use 5,56 and i hate it.
>>217178797one random out of context photo doesn't mean anything. where would they even get ammo?plus some special units used captured AKs so that the vietnamese would think it was other vitnamese units based on the sound
>>217178883>. thats why 'nam vets threw avay their ar and picked up an enemy ak if they couldthey didn't
>>217178945No, it was because m-16 constantly jammed in the mud, awkward to manouver in the jungle, and 5.56 is simply isnt best suited for jungle warfare
>>217179265>it was because m-16 constantly jammed in the mud,it doesn't. see the ukraine footage. the vietnam issues with the M16 were that the army switched the power in the ammo to an untested dirtier powder and didn't issue cleaning kits. once those 2 things were fixed the M16 stopped being unreliable see>>217178247>awkward to manouver in the jungle, the M16 is lighter and shorter than any WWII era rifles, it's about the same length as the SKS and is lighter than an SKS or AK or any WWII era rifle> and 5.56 is simply isnt best suited for jungle warfarewhich is why the russians and chinese both switched to their own version of 5.56?The US literally defeated the north vietnamese. the fall of saigan happened 2 years after a cease fire
>>217178247Yeah those american cocksuckers and cargo cultists would totally not rig the video
>>217180723>thirdy yuro seethe
>>217164411Both are inferior to pic related.
>>217179559>US literally defeated the north vietnameselmao
>>217180945there isn't a single first world country that's adopted the G3 en masse>>217180952go check the timeline retard. the fall of saigan happened 2 years after a peace treaty and after the US left
>>217164411During the Soviet era, the USSR, on Kalashnikov's initiative, abandoned the 7.62x39 caliber because it blew the heads off American soldiers so badly that it was impossible to identify them after death, i.e., for humanitarian reasons. Kalashnikov was a very humanitarian person.
>>217164411range doesn't matter when you can't see past 100m through the foliage anyway
>>217181196R.I.P.https://youtu.be/tc5dCeJHyfI
>>217181191least delusional ameritard
>>217181323>waffle seethe
>we defeated north vietnam and communism>south vietnam is now also communist? ah well>total US victoryjust like you won in afganistan eh
also nicknamed the right arm of the free world, for a reason
>>217181368>>217181403>belgium's accomplishment to the world is being the only nation to ever lose to germany losing to germany twicefucking irrelevant third world dyke country>>217181403>belgium>freehahahaha
https://youtu.be/nnOyl3l7FBs2:41-3:06"Previously, there were designers who believed that “everything should be fitted as tightly as possible,” and as soon as the wind blew from the side, everything would stop working. However, we took the opposite approach and created such freedom that the frame moves and nothing, not even sand, interferes, because FREEDOM, ABSOLUTE FREEDOM of details."
>>217164411>inches>yards>footI'm not going to google what these cringe units of length mean in human units
pretending to be retarded isn't trolling
>>217168043Yeah because only can India fuck up making an AK clone so bad that you had to go back to using ancient AKs that worked.
>>217181672>metric>human units>>217181727we literally had to liberate your third world shithole twice
>>217169539>Forgets that Yugo M67 7.62x39 exists that dispels the ice-pick meme
>>217171269>hasn't paid attention to popular culture lately of everyone wanting to kill them and being a pariah state
>>217178964but they did. this is a common well known thing. the first versions of m16 sendt to the frontline in 'nam was so bad they rather pic up the ak's from their enemy to continue the fight. throughout the war it became superior but its still debated if its initial faults and the 5,56 rounds habit of just going everywhere but where you aim if it hits a leaf is a reason why usa "lost" in 'nam.
>>217175248>And now that thinking is changing again with the advent of drone warfare.It was funny reading articles on how NATO was training Ukies on outdated, war-on-terror against musloid-goat-herder tactics while they mogged their trainers with drones to the point the Czechs told them to stop using drones. Ukies aren't fighting the Taliban and it ain't 2001 anymore. NATO's tactics are dated as shit.
>>217176168I'm American, he's right, and you are a shitposting moron. t. owns 23 guns
>>217178945>where would they even get ammo?Are you fucking retarded? They have the enemy right in front of them with an endless supply!
>>217179559Retard the soviets are switching to lighter ammo because they are switching to urban cqc, it is common knowledge that 5.56 went wayward as soon as it hit a branch in the jungle, rendering the only thing m-16 is good at, which is accuracy, useless
>>217179559>The US literally defeated the north vietnameseReal life isn't a Call of Duty PvP K:D ratio server. What matters is the outcome, same with Afghanistan. You never heard the expression you may have won the battle but lost the war? That's America every single time in these globohomo, third world interventions.
>>217181413He mogged you, take the L
>>217178223>>217178247>stuff I pulled just out of my ass
>>217164622and the 7.62x39 was replaced by the 5.45x39
>>217176136not true the M-16 resists dirt much better than an AK
>>217182381This one's HATO chambered if that pleases you.
>>217164622The 5.56 only has a kick if it's supersonic. Not ideal in close quarters.
Modern military equipment is so fucking soulless.Especially small guns like rifles and pistols and uniforms.
not the point the 5.45 replaced 7.62 in service (well until they started pulling out AKMs)>>217182424>>217182360>>217178247>>/wsg/6040088>and this is how the americans are testing our ak rifle>they mudded it and filled it with trash>after which they tried to shoot it>the americans found out that the AK worked as if nothing happned>the russian weapon did not fail[rest is in english]
>>217182643>>217182360>>217178247>>>/wsg/6040088
>>217181968they didn't. that would be retarded. they would have no way of getting AK ammo and would get in trouble for losing their guns.small arms had nothing to do with the resolution of vietnam. we killed a fuck ton of north vietnamese compared to the number of Americans who died. the issue was we signed a peace treaty and then didn't honor it when the north reinvaded years later
>>217182116good bait>>217182124you live in india and you have no idea what you're talking about. 5.56 is way more effective than 7.62x39 in everyway. it's why every military in the world except poorfag countries like india and africa switched to 5.56 or a round like it
>>217182232nope, stop eating rice with your hands>>217182184we literally signed a peace deal. the issue was biden and the dems refused to reenter the war after the north vitnames reinvaded after the peace deal had been in effect for a while
>>217182360that's airshit >>217182474all 5.56 is supersonic. and none of it kicks. most 5.56 is going close to 3 times the speed of sound out of the barrel of a gun
>>217182643>>217182665you know that's edited right? in the actual youtube video the ak jams immediately. then the russian state media made a faked propaganda version
>>217182884that's the point of the video you mong it shows the full clip in the end
>>217182700they would literally have more ak ammo than ar ammo.vietnam war was on usa's side fought by bureacrats and politicans. did any in usa actually feel the effects of this war? no. and did the usa actually put its full war effort into it? no, it didnt. it just sent troops to die using subpar weapons. there wasnt enough political pressure to win it.
>>217182952holy shit you are a fucking retard. the US isn't a third world country like yurop. American troops always had a constant supply of ammo.
>>217182758Holy retard, im not even living in free country and i know how 5.56 perform in jungle, have you even shot a single ammo in your life?>it's why every military in the world except poorfag countries like india and africa switched to 5.56 or a round like itMilitaries are switching to 5.56 because most combat are now focused on strategic objectives in urban areas dumbass, mobility has become much more important than pure stopping power, its literally your own military playbook.
>>217183324>Holy retard, im not even living in free country and i know how 5.56 perform in jungle, have you even shot a single ammo in your life?Good morning, saar. I own guns, unlike your retarded ESL ass.
>>217183060fucktard. you fought a war on the other side of the world, everything you needed had to be airlifted or shipped there. the politcal and bureacratic issues i just mentioned was in the way of your war. they should have shipped it there, they should have supported your war. but they didnt.
Why are you stupid fucking monkeys pretending that we're on /k/? Fuck off.
>>217183868eat shit, no gunz dyke boy>>217183762again, you fucking third world retard. the north vietnamese suffered over 20 times more combat deaths than America did. We don't have logistics issues with arming our troops the way third world countries like yurop do. We had icecream ships in WWII because our logistics is that much better than yours
>>217164411>inches>yards>meters))) metersMETERS, KARL
>>217164411°Fuck you.
